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No improvement with Thouroughbred

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December 18, 2001 11:05:39 PM

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1008716759.


This is official no larger cache no 166 FSB so Northwood will be the king for the Q1 to Q3 in 2002.Now AMD can only rely on Barton who is far away.

http://gamershq.madonion.com/products/orb/?publish_comp...

More about : improvement thouroughbred

December 19, 2001 12:25:50 AM

LOL! only a die shrinky. it's too bad the FTC is on Intel a$$, otherwise Intc would go for the throat and finish the job once and for all.

lets keep AMD around for a few more quarters :-)

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
December 19, 2001 1:19:02 AM

Quote:
This is official no larger cache no 166 FSB

What makes you think T-bred needs it?

The AthlonXP 1900+ is very close to the Northwood, and Northwood isn't even out yet. It won't take much to put the AXP on par with it--probably no more than one or two speed revisions.

AMD will bump up the FSB speed sometime. Chances are they'll do it at about the same time that Intel does.

Kelledin
[dave@discovery ~] kill -9 1
init: Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?
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December 19, 2001 2:54:36 AM

Thoroughbred will give AMD the platform to increase the clock speed of the XP architecture, since the initial bench for Northwood is not convincingly beating anything yet this is not a surprise. AMD will likely match or follow very closely Intel right up to 2H 2003. If they deliver Barton, maybe the crowns will change?

-* <font color=red> !! S O L D !! </font color=red> *-
To the gentleman in the pink Tutu
December 19, 2001 7:44:25 PM

Juin! thats a 16 bit score.

Here is one of my <A HREF="http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?2215247" target="_new">Radeon scores.</A>

I need to post scores from my P4T, they are about 300 points higher. but still doesnt beat <A HREF="http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?1990471" target="_new">my GF3.</A>

Suggestions, Download the Radeon OEM to Retail bios fix, that will get you higher voltage settings and ability to run at 275/275. Also overclock your 1.7Ghz to roughtly ~2.0Ghz You shouldnt have to max your vcore settings, 1.75v should be enough. leave turbo RAM on, leave 4x ram setting. adjust slider to best performance and try again.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 19, 2001 7:55:29 PM

Will northwoody acctually be any faster? I don't remember the P3 Xeon being much faster than the regular P3, and it had massive amounts of extra cache... Oh, and Juin, thanks for admitting that Athlon is currently King, I thought that the intel still had your mind.


Aklein

Just me and my computer livin' on the dark side of the moon.
December 19, 2001 11:27:07 PM

Juin! thats a 16 bit score.

Here is one of my Radeon scores.

I need to post scores from my P4T, they are about 300 points higher. but still doesnt beat my GF3.

Suggestions, Download the Radeon OEM to Retail bios fix, that will get you higher voltage settings and ability to run at 275/275. Also overclock your 1.7Ghz to roughtly ~2.0Ghz You shouldnt have to max your vcore settings, 1.75v should be enough. leave turbo RAM on, leave 4x ram setting. adjust slider to best performance and try again.

16 bit Zbuffer that give me something like 100 point.I have the bios Retail.Any i dont why i will take that chance all my systeme have never crash and all is very fast.Maybe i will change my mind when i will be a Northwood 1.7

http://gamershq.madonion.com/products/orb/?publish_comp...
December 19, 2001 11:37:45 PM

NW 1.7GHZ?
Not only you're gonna spend killer cash, you're gonna downclock something?
Lol... keep the Intel faith juin, keep the faith... :-)

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
December 19, 2001 11:51:12 PM

If the Thoroughbred is just an Athlon XP built on the .13 micron process, wont that make it very cheap to produce?

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
December 20, 2001 12:10:05 AM

"finish the job once and for all"

does this mean u want to pay higher prices for your next CPU upgrade then cauz AMD is out the picture?


- Know thyself
- Seek
- Love
- Cherish Life
- And do not Yield!
December 20, 2001 2:51:04 AM

1) You might notice that the AthlonXP 1900+ <i>already</i> beats the Northwood 2GHz in all but one benchmark--and that benchmark just happens to be Quake3, which is one of the two or three apps the P4 mysteriously excels in anyways. Based on that, it will only take a speed bump or two for it to compete favorably with the NW 2.2GHz.

Besides which, remember that I run Linux, and I run compile jobs more than anything. Currently, for Linux compile jobs, the slowest AthlonXP is faster than the fastest P4. Even if it weren't, I could get dual AthlonMP 1900+ platform for less money than the Northwood, and my compile speed would almost double that of a single 1900+. So no, I don't think even the Northwood is real "god box" material for me.

2) <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/chipsets/showdoc.html?i=1570&p..." target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/chipsets/showdoc.html?i=1570&p...;/A>

Quote:
Although we've seen reports contrary to this, we noticed no USB 1.1 compatibility problems with the reference Paulaner board. Using the only two ports available on the board we captured video from an Intel USB web camera while constantly using a Microsoft USB Intellimouse without any compatibility issues.

Funny, sounds like another Inquirer rumor to me. If it's true, the worst that happens is that <i>we get free USB 2.0.</i> Gee, don't we have it tough. :tongue:

Kelledin
[dave@discovery ~] kill -9 1
init: Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 20, 2001 11:41:46 AM

It's going to take a lot more than additional L2 cache to get me to buy a P4. I haven't seen any compelling reason to spend 2-3x more money on a P4 that will continue to get beat in most benchmarks by Tbred. Q3 is irrelevant to me.

"Intel Inside" is a warning label.
December 20, 2001 12:25:35 PM

jsyk there were little improvements from t-bird to athlon XP. just the optimizations to make it run cooler and added SSE. Which adds little performance. And the xp kicks the half made P4 (non-northwood) chip in the water. Just think with a die shrink it'll run cooler and they can run the clock higher! 2ghz athlon XP+ (lets call it) would crush the full version p4 even at there 2.5ghz maybe a 3ghz might match it. just speculation. SO for you flamers with no life it's speculation. Meaning a guess with no facts behind it and just my opinion. get it? good ....

Also can you think of any improvements? i can't. You can only do so much to a design. A newly designed chip would require a new socket. AMD isn't like Intel where they have a new design every year. Shows lack of innovation but also shows patience on the side of AMD and it is pretty amazing that they have been able to use the same socket for this long. Given the first generation socket A's doesn't support the athlon XP. But the first generation socket 370 doesn't support tulatin either.

Don't you find it at all amazing that AMD has been able to add a fully functioning SSE implementation with out a die shrink and run clock speeds much much higher to that of intels pentium 3 which was stuck at 1ghz but needed cheats like microcode to get it that high and AMD uses nothing? just pure good old clock. Thats some packed transisters my friend!

You should really learn the architecture to truely impreciate the CPU. It's pretty impressive stuff both from Intel and AMD from the days of the MIPS architecture first generation, which i studied in class.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
December 20, 2001 12:41:51 PM

you are the biggest ... ok if you skateboarded you would be considered a poser!

DUH moron! what do you think the pentium 3 to tulatin was!?Just a die shrink! Amazing how with just a die shrink it was able to gain a few more performance points in bencmarks and run at a higher clock.

With just a die shrink it is abale to run at 2ghz compared to 1ghz. Intel won't run he tualtin at 2ghz because that would crush the Pentium 4 and ruin the p4's reputation. (lol)

AMAZING! amazing what a die shrink will doo eh!? it's not some minor thing. It is a overall improvement from everything from heat to performance.

Obviously you folks have no clue about computers and just a bunch of posers pretending you do.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
December 20, 2001 1:39:16 PM

Dear Kelledin
NW 2.0A/2.2 benchmark

A quick look to the road map

7 january
AMD release 2000+ who will still be slower that a 2.2.

after that no more AMD PALAMINO the whole CPU have hit is limit.

0.13 micon K7 Q2 there is nothing between that.The big hole.In the same time 533 FSB for Intel.No improvement on the IPC for AMD.By the way Thouroughbred will start at a PR rating of 2000+ so the same level of performance vs a 2.5 NW 533 FSB and I850E/Pc 1066.Intel will gain a 25% of IPC vs nothing a 300mghz vs a 67mghz.You have to say Intel have a better roadmap.""pour clouer tout"" a higher O*C potencial.

Intel will take is crown back.


For the USB glicht for what i know they use a Extra USB 2.0 on the mobo.

http://gamershq.madonion.com/products/orb/?publish_comp...
December 20, 2001 2:35:19 PM

I wish I spoke French, that looks like a good site.

Regardless...
Sk8er, the Tully was more than a die shrink if I remember right. I'll have to check again, but I think it had more L2 and maybe something else.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 20, 2001 3:27:18 PM

ya...

my point is a die shrink is a big deal. It's not some small fry. As you see with northwood. I believe that was a die shrink with added cache.

Who knows maybe AMD will add more cache. Too early to say.
I don't care what article you read from some third party orgnaization. It's too early.

So who knows.

but my point is a die shrink is a big deal.


<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
December 20, 2001 5:24:43 PM

Quote:
Suggestions, Download the Radeon OEM to Retail bios fix, that will get you higher voltage settings and ability to run at 275/275.

Where can you find this, and the bios flash utility?

Chesnuts roasting on an open CPU
Bill Gates nipping at your wallet
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 20, 2001 5:32:27 PM

Quote:
Here is one of my Radeon scores.

I need to post scores from my P4T, they are about 300 points higher. but still doesnt beat my GF3.

Could that be because you didn't use the same CPU settings? You had a 112 FSB at the Radeon test, and 120 FSB test for the GeForce 3. And, of course since the multiplier was different, I'll guess they aren't the same systems.

Some compairison. Just what I'd expect from someone who sleeps with his P4.


<font color=blue> Intel = Intellegence / 2 </font color=blue>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 20, 2001 5:35:05 PM

Intel would rather rob and rape it's customers than cut prices. FTC or no FTC.

<font color=blue> Intel = Intellegence / 2 </font color=blue>
December 20, 2001 7:01:00 PM

With just a die shrink it is abale to run at 2ghz compared to 1ghz. Intel won't run he tualtin at 2ghz because that would crush the Pentium 4 and ruin the p4's reputation. (lol


Lol i can say the same do you think that 0.13 micron can douple the max speed of a cpu.I go read the Tuatulin benchmark there were 3 improvemnt in desing.AMD K7 P6 will never be at the same speed that a P4 not even 1 generation of Hammer series.

http://gamershq.madonion.com/products/orb/?publish_comp...
December 21, 2001 2:28:55 AM

Christ, have you <b>EVER</b> heard of proper grammar, Juin? Reading your posts is an eyesore, content and mechanics wise.

If you are from another country, I may have to revoke my insult, but seeing how at times you magically appear to use perfect English, my judgement stands as of now.

AMD > Intel
December 21, 2001 1:24:11 PM

Juin a mauvais l'Anglais. Il ne sais pas beaucoup d'Anglais. Anglais est une tres difficile langue. Ou est ses traducteurs?!

Vive la Quebec Libre

Translation:

Juin bad english. Does not know english. english is difficult language. Where are his translators?!

Long live an independent Quebec.
December 21, 2001 1:37:13 PM

Cote traducteur le tien est encore pire que celui de juin...anglais comme francais...


As for the translator yours is'nt better...english or french...

translated by myself...at least I know that my english is far from good compare to yours quebecois!

vive le Quebec libre (quote from Charles De Gaulle a french guy from france...)



Sorry for my spelling i'm french...hey i ain't perfect!
December 21, 2001 2:44:36 PM

Yet another account, juin? Why didn't you just use your 'Keeper' account?

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 21, 2001 3:54:33 PM

If you mean speed as in Mhz/Ghz, then you could be right. AMD has gone a different route to get performance out of their CPU than Intel. Intel has gone the MHz route, while AMD when the Operations route. AMD's route seems to be working much better at the moment, but a lot of that also stems from the price difference. If there wasn't as big of a price difference in the systems, there would be a much more even sided debate. More people would like the P4 because it does have some good sides to it, and Athlon would have that much harder of a battle. However, Intel apparently won't reduce the prices of their CPUs to anything reasonable, and so the P4s and the P3s/Celerons have a somewhat prohibitive cost for their performance.

Ultimately, it's still nice that there is such close competition of the CPUs. The performance isn't THAT much of a difference (5-10% difference at most at any time in most benchmarks, and it does fluctuate on either side).

Chesnuts roasting on an open CPU
Bill Gates nipping at your wallet
December 21, 2001 6:59:25 PM

the AMD will have SSE2..
lol..
you all forgot this? this is the only way for the P4 to keep par with AMD's IPC..
now with 3D NOW!+,SSE,SSE2 seems like AMD will gain way more then intel..

<font color=green>
*******
*K.I.S.S*
*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
*******
</font color=green>
December 21, 2001 8:43:13 PM

Since when is AMD planning on adding SSE2? I haven't heard any plans about that.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 21, 2001 9:18:15 PM

Oh, I thought he was talking about Thoroughbred or Barton. I knew Hammer was going to have SSE2. Thanks for clearing that up.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 22, 2001 1:39:35 PM

They had to put it at some point in these processors. My guess is they let Intel do it, to make people think there are so many SS2 to use it, so they wait till SSE2 does become more used and bang, their processor is released with one!

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
!