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Getting lost in the forest

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Anonymous
May 12, 2005 9:01:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Any sugegstions for a table of "things that happen to the party when
they get lost in very dense forest"?

In a mod Im writing the party need to make wilderness survival roles
each day to avoid something interesting/nasty happening to them.

I don't want it to be "Encounter a Bug bear", I was thinking more along
the lines of

- Stumble into a concealed patch of swampy ground
- come across a dificult to cross stream
etc

suggestions?

More about : lost forest

Anonymous
May 12, 2005 1:25:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Murf" <rob_murfin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115899262.729618.79380@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Any sugegstions for a table of "things that happen to the party when
> they get lost in very dense forest"?
>
> In a mod Im writing the party need to make wilderness survival roles
> each day to avoid something interesting/nasty happening to them.
>
> I don't want it to be "Encounter a Bug bear", I was thinking more
> along
> the lines of
>
> - Stumble into a concealed patch of swampy ground
> - come across a dificult to cross stream
> etc
>
> suggestions?

Party comes upon a small clearing in the forest. An ivy covered statue
(bits and pieces or complete)
sits in the middle of the clearing. What this statue's purpose is,
well that is up to you.

Some suggestions:
1) The statue is just a statue. Perhaps it was taken from a local art
exhibit, or was lost in transportation
from one place or another. Maybe the statue has been there for a long
time and the original creators
of it are long gone. The statue might be the only record of what an
ancient and lost race might look like.

2)The statue is an Oracle. By paying proper respect to the deity the
statue represents players can ask it
one minor question for each tribute. The Answers are yes and no only.
The god could be good, evil,
or neutral. Maybe it isn't a god at all but an elemental force,
Djinni, or Outsider. The creature might be
trying to help or tempt players based upon its motivations.

3)Stoned Adventurer: The statue is the remains of some person, or
creature that fell prey to one of the
many creatures in DnD that turn people to stone. If the players could
somehow manage to return
him/her/it they might find a friend in battle, a new arch-enemy, or a
destructive force that they
shouldn't have screwed with in the first place.

4)Construct: The statue is either a non-functioning or functioning
construct. If it still works, it could
be pretending until a certain set of instructed actions take place.


Fungus Farmers: The party finds the woods around them getting thicker
and gnarly, the trees begin
to push into the path (if there is one) or the players are forced to
move in and out of the trees sometimes
climb checks are needed to get over obstacles. Eventually and probably
in the middle of the night
the players begin to see dim lights near the ground of the forest. The
lights are created by
a certain Fungus that gathers as much available sunlight as it can
during the day and converts it to
the light they see at night. There is nothing more to the fungus
except that crafty players might find
some way to use it as a makeshift torch, since all it requires is some
access to daylight for x amount
of time for y amount of glow.

Maybe a certain creature enjoys feasting on this fungus and will do
just about anything to get more of it. The players might be able to
bait this creature out into the open
using the fungus. The creature would probably be an animal, or magical
beast and maybe something
that is a singular experience in this forest.

Sudden small hills: The players travel through dense forest, that
suddenly drops off about 25-30 feet
straight down. If traveling quickly most would have to make a reflex
save, balance check, or any skill
you deem necessary. What causes the sudden drop, well that could be
explained or not, that's up to you.

Wounded animals: Although the players never find the actual animals,
there are many signs in the woods
that scream wounded animals. Blood, bits of fur, broken arrows, tree
branches broken at odd angles.

Flash flood or suddenly deep river crossing: The players are traveling
during the worse time of a rainstorm.
Since they are mostly shielded by the trees they continue to move
along. They come across a streambed
allow survival checks to see the signs of a possible flash flood. If
not a stream they find a river, one that is
shallow at both edges but gets very deep in the middle. This makes it
much harder for small characters to
cross unless they have a decent swim check, or a med or larger
character to help them across.

Dead Woods: Players should see signs of less animals, and frequent
dead plants as they get closer to this
section of the forest. The air around them cools down, and they find
it hard to catch their breath if they
are pushing themselves too much. The Dead Woods is a small section of
forest devoid of light and filled
with negative energy. This effect leaves players feeling cold and
hollow. Only long term exposure to this
area results in any serious damage. Healing magic might also be a
little less effective here. The number
of undead they find in this area might increase. Not unusual undead,
but animal based skeletons, lost
adventurers, etc.

Those are some ideas. I'm sure I could come up with more, just don't
have the time right now.

DA
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 2:56:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Murf wrote:
> Any sugegstions for a table of "things that happen to the party when
> they get lost in very dense forest"?

They find a path. It may lead them out of the forest,
or it may be just a game trail.

A forest clearing, with enough of a view of distant
hills to give the characters a little help in
navigation - getting lost in a deep forest is
very easy to do.

A long-abandoned peddler's cart, with no sign
of the peddler or his horse. The few tools and
knick-knacks left behind are in poor condition
but would do in a pinch for weaponsmith or
armorsmith rolls, but these tools are not
very portable. The covered cart would make
a nice place to spend the night for a few
adventurers.

An area where dozens of large trees have recently
been broken and uprooted. A ranger or other
woodlands-savvy character may be able to identify
the large creature(s) that rampaged here and
thankfully moved on.

A small basket half-full of nuts, apparently
not here for long. No indication of who
left it here.

A graveyard, consisting of less than a score
of grave markers weathered to the point of
illegibility. Nothing remains of the community
that buried their dead here. If anyone tries
to dig up the graves, each one will be long
empty.

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
Related resources
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 4:06:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Thu, 12 May 2005 12:01:02 GMT, Murf scrawled:

> I don't want it to be "Encounter a Bug bear", I was thinking more along
> the lines of
>
> - Stumble into a concealed patch of swampy ground
> - come across a dificult to cross stream
> etc
>
> suggestions?
>

Traps set by hunters for animals and forgotten about

Concealed dangerous terrain (caves, unstable ground etc.)

Poisonous insects/plants

Dense foliage that may need to be cleared (covers brambles etc. but can be
passed through by Druids?)

Severe weather posing a threat in certain parts - woodlands on a hill may
attract lightning, very tall trees could pose problems in high winds
(falling branches/trees)

--
http://www.rexx.co.uk

To email me, visit the site.
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 11:15:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Some of these could be hooks or seeds for an adventure.
Some are just flavor.

The remains of a small campfire in a clearing. Have no
traces of what or who created the fire. Could be good
guys, could be orcs. Who knows? The fire is still
burning. Where did they go?

An abandoned cabin, stocked with supplies.

A grove of hundreds of apple trees. The apples are all
different shapes and sizes and colors, and most of them
taste horrible.

What is obviously a battle site. Broken arrows, spears,
helmets, a few decaying skeletons, orc and elven.

A putrid, decaying animal carcass. It is obvious that
this animal died of disease. Lots of flies and maggots.

A cursed ranger, who has been turned into an animal that
would normally not be found in this forest (like a lion).
He attempts to communicate with the party, but it all
comes out like roars, snarls and growls.

Mysterious, star shaped figures hanging from the trees.
(Blair Witch Style).

Rare plants with excellent medicinal value. Or, maybe
poison!

A dead monster. Make it something that would have been
way to powerful for the party to handle. It is full of
arrows and crossbow bolts, and there is evidence of magic
having been used (circular burn patterns from fireballs).
Maybe there is even an inscription on a tree or stone
nearby, naming the victors (PC's could run into them
later in another town). One of the ears is missing (
a halfing in the party is collecting monster ears).

A lizard man hunting party. They don't want to fight,
and don't want any trouble. Unless the PC's get nasty.

A group of moss covered skeletons standing in a circle
around a tree. At the foot of the tree is the remains
of the adventurer that they chased into the forest.
The last order given to the skeletons was to kill that
adventurer, so they have just stood here for years
afterwards. It takes a few rounds before they begin
to move.

A hunting camp, where 3 hunters have a wagon stacked
full of pelts ready to return to civilization.

A man's shirt. Nothing more, nothing less.

A band of first level adventurers (if your group is
higher level). These guys have no food or water,
and one of them is badly injured (arrow wounds).
Two of them appear to be carrying a 3 foot high
golden and diamond encrusted statue (an alignment
test for good PCs). They won't say what happened
to them or where they got the statue.
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 1:56:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Speaking of Blair Witch:

Have the party pass a landmark. Something unique.

Later on, they pass it again, even though they think they
haven't changed direction. Instant Classic!
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 7:06:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Murf wrote:
> Any sugegstions for a table of "things that happen to the party when
> they get lost in very dense forest"?

O.k. 102 Instant Adventures...

01 party comes across a long abandoned, overgrown, and unused road.
02 stone cairns
03 megalithic stone circle
04 tree-cave
05 monster or animal burrow
06 natural bridge (tree trunk, beaver dam, etc.) across watercourse
07 Great Tree Roots
08 tree branches fall from high canopy in a storm
09 Rain, Snow, or other inclement weather
10 Swamp
11 Unexplained lights at night
12 bright eyes at night from the forest
13 strange animal/monster sounds (howls, calls, bellows, and screams)
14 Crickets, toads, or locusts
15 high bridge across watercourse
16 watercut natural bridge over watercourse
17 forgotten ruins of a temple or town
18 Roadsign
19 Marker
20 Blaze or other tree marks denoting overland trail or path
21 Dead-End box canyon with steep overhangs
22 Tree of death
23 Tree of life
24 fruit trees
25 insect plague
26 bats or spiders
27 enchanted stream or pond
28 mushrooms
29 natural herbs
30 unusual flowers
31 man-made forest or grove
32 druids grove
33 grove/shelter
34 abdandoned cabin or hut
35 wild herd animals
36 wild predator
37 unusual reptile
38 mounds
39 burial mound
40 abandoned earthworks
41 long stone wall
42 stone wall mostly rubble circles clearing
43 rice paddy
44 salty marshland
45 cypress swamp with waterways
46 tall grass parks
47 meadows
48 bogs
49 wild herd stampede
50 skeleton chained to a tree
52 hot spring
53 clear spring
54 tropical hammock
55 tropical plants or forest
56 pine or other evergreen forest
57 unusual natural rock formations
58 abandoned or lost mine
59 covered well
60 Geyser or hot spring
61 mammoths, bison, other prehistoric animals
62 earthwork complex
63 tunnel complex
64 fossils
65 fossilized remains of monsters
66 petrified people, monsters, and animals
67 man-made gardens
68 cenote (Deep wide limestone hole that goes below water table)
69 earthquake faultline
70 flaming geyser
71 bubble geyser
72 waterfalls
73 series of lakes and waterfalls
74 dryads grove
75 large quantities of birds, waterfowl, or flying insects
76 natural mineral formations
77 gems, pretty stones, or gemstone mine
78 ancient battleground
79 scenic trail
80 barbarian ruins
81 abandoned encampment
82 natural shrine
83 ceremonial clearing
84 abandoned stronghold
85 encloaed pasture or corral
86 seashore or lakeside (large lake)
87 caves and caverns
88 lake with islands
89 canal
90 flash flood
91 heavy rains with flooded waterways
92 boat landing
93 Inn or Tavern
94 Elven or other native villaage
95 reptiles
96 Lightning strike & forest fire
97 enormous forest fire
98 recently abandoned camp ground
99 animal trail
100 animal or monster tracks
101 church, temple, or monastery
102 Ice storm

With Regards,
Dirk
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 8:07:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On 12 May 2005 05:01:02 -0700, "Murf" <rob_murfin@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Any sugegstions for a table of "things that happen to the party when
>they get lost in very dense forest"?
>
>In a mod Im writing the party need to make wilderness survival roles
>each day to avoid something interesting/nasty happening to them.
>
>I don't want it to be "Encounter a Bug bear", I was thinking more along
>the lines of
>
>- Stumble into a concealed patch of swampy ground
>- come across a dificult to cross stream
>etc
>
>suggestions?
>


Unable to find dry wood because it rained, you spend a damp cold
night.
Find poisonous berries/mushrooms and mistake them for edible.
Drink from contaminated water. Too bad you didn't know to boil it.
Animals try to eat your provisions in the night.
A rotted out tree falls and makes the sound of a character screaming
because it fell on his leg.
Your campfire gets out of control. You must scramble to put it out.
You find moss growing on the south side of a tree. Now you're even
more lost.
Encounter with irritant plant life or bugs leaves someone scratching
for days
A character steps carelessly and twists an ankle.
Animal or thorn scratches become infected. A character develops a
fever.
You urinate on a stately oak. Bad move.

There are also a wide variety of carnivorous or otherwise dangerous
plants that could be avoided with a survival roll, as well as animals
like bears and rattlesnakes that are only dangerous if you are stupid
around them.
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 1:38:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

You sound like an awesome DM. Wish I had a chance to play in one of
your campaigns. So descriptive and creative. Great job man! Tell you
the truth I'd love to see more threads like this, where its just a long
string of little adventure IDEAS.... or tiny encounters of interest to
throw in anywhere. Anyway, again, great ideas.
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 4:35:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Murf wrote:
> Any sugegstions for a table of "things that happen to the party when
> they get lost in very dense forest"?
>
> In a mod Im writing the party need to make wilderness survival roles
> each day to avoid something interesting/nasty happening to them.
>
> I don't want it to be "Encounter a Bug bear", I was thinking more
along
> the lines of
>
> - Stumble into a concealed patch of swampy ground
> - come across a dificult to cross stream
> etc
>
> suggestions?

1. Stumble into the concealed arms of a sto-roper bard. Fnarr!

2. Come across a difficult to cross stream of gas-spore paladins,
their plumed helms glinting in the noonday sun.

Uh, that's all I got. Do you have a 2-sided die?

~ Aby
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 10:10:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"webhed" <jreyst@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116002311.468902.309140@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> You sound like an awesome DM. Wish I had a chance to play in one of
> your campaigns. So descriptive and creative. Great job man! Tell you
> the truth I'd love to see more threads like this, where its just a
> long
> string of little adventure IDEAS.... or tiny encounters of interest
> to
> throw in anywhere. Anyway, again, great ideas.

I'd like to think this one was about me, but I doubt it. :) 

Calling Ego Police, gigantic ego on the loose taking AOO against
anybody that comes near.
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 5:47:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Murf wrote:
>
> Any sugegstions for a table of "things that happen to the party when
> they get lost in very dense forest"?
>
> In a mod Im writing the party need to make wilderness survival roles
> each day to avoid something interesting/nasty happening to them.
>
> I don't want it to be "Encounter a Bug bear", I was thinking more
> along the lines of
>
> - Stumble into a concealed patch of swampy ground
> - come across a dificult to cross stream

Here's a list of dangerous terrain features and events I've compiled
over the years which (AFAIK) no one else has mentioned yet:

avalanche
bridge, sabotaged (an old commando trick)
bridge, washed out
cave-in
earthquake
eel-infested waters
fumarole
mud flat
mud pots
quagmire
quicksand
rope bridge (It seems safe enough...)
sinkhole
slide (land-, mud-, rock-)
tar pit
tidal bore (river)
volcanic eruption (lava flows/bombs, ash, smoke)

And in the spirit of other posters who provided "interesting" ideas:
many years ago I found "The Chaos Project", a website devoted to the
Runequest RPG. One section was called "Found Items", with 342 unusual
discoveries to puzzle and perplex your players.

http://www.maranci.net/cparchfi.htm


Arivne
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 4:02:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

>
>>Any sugegstions for a table of "things that happen to the party when
>>they get lost in very dense forest"?
>>
>>In a mod Im writing the party need to make wilderness survival roles
>>each day to avoid something interesting/nasty happening to them.

Since it's only a DC15 survival roll to avoid a natural hazard/getting
lost (maybe with the standard -2 if it's a very dense forest) is it
worth the effort? Most parties I've seen can manage that on a take 10.

Andy
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 3:00:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Decaying Atheist" <harker@coxdot.net> wrote in message
news:Uz9he.26830$Um.18444@lakeread08...
>
> "webhed" <jreyst@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1116002311.468902.309140@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> You sound like an awesome DM. Wish I had a chance to play in one of
>> your campaigns. So descriptive and creative. Great job man! Tell you
>> the truth I'd love to see more threads like this, where its just a long
>> string of little adventure IDEAS.... or tiny encounters of interest to
>> throw in anywhere. Anyway, again, great ideas.
>
> I'd like to think this one was about me, but I doubt it. :) 

I would guess that it was. Those were solid, quality ideas.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 10:45:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Sat, 14 May 2005 12:02:27 +0100, Andy Luker <"andyluker AT
dsl.pipex.com"> wrote:

>
>>
>>>Any sugegstions for a table of "things that happen to the party when
>>>they get lost in very dense forest"?
>>>
>>>In a mod Im writing the party need to make wilderness survival roles
>>>each day to avoid something interesting/nasty happening to them.
>
>Since it's only a DC15 survival roll to avoid a natural hazard/getting
>lost (maybe with the standard -2 if it's a very dense forest) is it
>worth the effort? Most parties I've seen can manage that on a take 10.

That's a good point. Fundamentally taking a walk in the woods, even
dense woods just isn't all that dangerous, as long you ignore the
possibility of monster attacks and know the basics of survival.
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 10:45:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"David Johnston" <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:42869699.48582057@news.telusplanet.net...
> On Sat, 14 May 2005 12:02:27 +0100, Andy Luker <"andyluker AT
> dsl.pipex.com"> wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>>>Any sugegstions for a table of "things that happen to the party when
>>>>they get lost in very dense forest"?
>>>>
>>>>In a mod Im writing the party need to make wilderness survival roles
>>>>each day to avoid something interesting/nasty happening to them.
>>
>>Since it's only a DC15 survival roll to avoid a natural hazard/getting
>>lost (maybe with the standard -2 if it's a very dense forest) is it
>>worth the effort? Most parties I've seen can manage that on a take 10.
>
> That's a good point. Fundamentally taking a walk in the woods, even
> dense woods just isn't all that dangerous, as long you ignore the
> possibility of monster attacks and know the basics of survival.
>
Agreed, forests, even very dense forests are just not inherently dangerous.
Is it your intension to make this an abnormally dangerous forest? If it is
then Fill it with elves, Orcs, Goblins, etc defending their territory. This
means traps; ambushes; terrain alterations via illusion to lead them out of
forest; seporation of party members; scare tactics; charmed or otherwise
controlled animals attacking; immobilazation via pits, mud or vines; charmed
party members told they should leave; constantly under watchful eyes and so
on.

Rooks
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 12:22:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Malachias Invictus" <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:YJCdnbomoPv4eBvfRVn-hw@comcast.com...
>
> "Decaying Atheist" <harker@coxdot.net> wrote in message
> news:Uz9he.26830$Um.18444@lakeread08...
>>
>> "webhed" <jreyst@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1116002311.468902.309140@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> You sound like an awesome DM. Wish I had a chance to play in one
>>> of
>>> your campaigns. So descriptive and creative. Great job man! Tell
>>> you
>>> the truth I'd love to see more threads like this, where its just a
>>> long
>>> string of little adventure IDEAS.... or tiny encounters of
>>> interest to
>>> throw in anywhere. Anyway, again, great ideas.
>>
>> I'd like to think this one was about me, but I doubt it. :) 
>
> I would guess that it was. Those were solid, quality ideas.

Well thank you. I have an overly active imagination at times. I put
that to decent
use in my games and creative writing. If only I could get my
punctuation under
control. Sigh, I used to be so good at High School english.
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 6:39:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Andy Luker wrote:

> Since it's only a DC15 survival roll to avoid a natural hazard/getting
> lost (maybe with the standard -2 if it's a very dense forest) is it
> worth the effort? Most parties I've seen can manage that on a take 10.

Oh, yeah. o.k. So uhh... there are no circumstancial modifiers for
getting lost?

What about heavy rain (tropical forest) / snow (mountains) /
sandstorm (desert)? According to my copy of Sandstorm, a duststorm
provides a -2 penalty to visibility making the DC of a survival
roll effectively 17.

I would routinely add the following modifiers to that base DC 15
survival check for players in forest settings based on the
following circumstances:

Condition base DC Modifier
==========================================
Heavy Trees and Overgrowth +5
Dense Trees & Undergrowth +10
Patches of Impenetrable Forest +12-15
Crude Map -3
Detailed Map -5
Mist +2
Light Fog +5
Heavy Fog +10
Light Rain/Snow +2
Rain Snow +4
Heavy Rain / Snow +6
Storm +8
Severe Storm +10
Tornado or Hurricane Strike +15
Light Smoke (From forest fire) +4
Heavy Smoke (From forest fire) +8
Light Marshes & Swamp +4
Heavy Marsh / Large Swamps +8
Frequent Lakes forcing course
changes or alterations +3
High Lake Density forcing course
changes or alterations +6
Party Being Followed / Tracked +2
(Party aware of tracking efforts)
Enchanted or Hallowed Forest +5
Party Familiar With Area +0
Party Intimately Familiar With
Area -5
Party Exploring New Area +5
Compass +4
Map +1-+10
(Depends on quality of map)
Watercourse -5



Re,
Dirk
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 12:35:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Dirk Collins wrote:
> Andy Luker wrote:
>
>> Since it's only a DC15 survival roll to avoid a natural hazard/getting
>> lost (maybe with the standard -2 if it's a very dense forest) is it
>> worth the effort? Most parties I've seen can manage that on a take 10.
>
>
> Oh, yeah. o.k. So uhh... there are no circumstancial modifiers for
> getting lost?
>

By the RAW no, except for the generic +/-2 circumstances modifier.

> What about heavy rain (tropical forest) / snow (mountains) / sandstorm
> (desert)? According to my copy of Sandstorm, a duststorm provides a -2
> penalty to visibility making the DC of a survival roll effectively 17.
>
> I would routinely add the following modifiers to that base DC 15
> survival check for players in forest settings based on the following
> circumstances:
>
> Condition base DC Modifier
> ==========================================
> Heavy Trees and Overgrowth +5
> Dense Trees & Undergrowth +10
> Patches of Impenetrable Forest +12-15
> Crude Map -3
> Detailed Map -5
> Mist +2
> Light Fog +5
> Heavy Fog +10
> Light Rain/Snow +2
> Rain Snow +4
> Heavy Rain / Snow +6
> Storm +8
> Severe Storm +10
> Tornado or Hurricane Strike +15
> Light Smoke (From forest fire) +4
> Heavy Smoke (From forest fire) +8

A lot of modifiers to remember, most of which boil down to "you can't
see far enough to see any landmarks" so just stiff them with the -4 spot
penalties from the DMG weather section and the slowed/impossible
movement rate & risk of hyperthermia.

A lot of these penalties seem very high (to me) considering the sort of
skill penalities listed in the PHB, rarely more than

> Light Marshes & Swamp +4
> Heavy Marsh / Large Swamps +8
> Frequent Lakes forcing course
> changes or alterations +3
> High Lake Density forcing course
> changes or alterations +6

I'd see these more as slowing down your rate of advance rather
thanmaking you more likely to get lost, after all a lake is a bit of a
big obvious landmark.

> Party Being Followed / Tracked +2
> (Party aware of tracking efforts)

Just shows them down as per the tracking feat

> Enchanted or Hallowed Forest +5

Could be either a plus or minus depending on by who & why it's enchanted

> Party Familiar With Area +0
> Party Intimately Familiar With
> Area -5
> Party Exploring New Area +5
I'd use Synergy bonus for Knowledge(Local) or (Geography, thus no need
to decide if the PCs know the area or not,

> Compass +4
> Map +1-+10
> (Depends on quality of map)

I'd simplify it by going for "Masterwork Navigation instruments" for a
+2 to skill (Do compasses exist in D&D?)
> Watercourse -5
>
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 3:15:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"David Johnston" <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:4283bce2.279598118@news.telusplanet.net...
> On 12 May 2005 05:01:02 -0700, "Murf" <rob_murfin@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Any sugegstions for a table of "things that happen to the party when
> >they get lost in very dense forest"?

[snip]

> Unable to find dry wood because it rained, you spend a damp cold
> night.
> Find poisonous berries/mushrooms and mistake them for edible.
> Drink from contaminated water. Too bad you didn't know to boil it.
> Your campfire gets out of control. You must scramble to put it out.
> You find moss growing on the south side of a tree. Now you're even
> more lost.
> Encounter with irritant plant life or bugs leaves someone scratching
> for days
> A character steps carelessly and twists an ankle.
> Animal or thorn scratches become infected. A character develops a
> fever.

Unless he means a party of stupid, stoned teenagers these things shouldn't
be an issue for professional adventurers. Even 1st level ones.
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 3:18:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Dirk Collins" <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote in message
news:FaJhe.3672$w21.2527@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Andy Luker wrote:
>
> > Since it's only a DC15 survival roll to avoid a natural hazard/getting
> > lost (maybe with the standard -2 if it's a very dense forest) is it
> > worth the effort? Most parties I've seen can manage that on a take 10.
>
> Oh, yeah. o.k. So uhh... there are no circumstancial modifiers for
> getting lost?
>
> What about heavy rain (tropical forest) / snow (mountains) /
> sandstorm (desert)? According to my copy of Sandstorm, a duststorm
> provides a -2 penalty to visibility making the DC of a survival
> roll effectively 17.
>
> I would routinely add the following modifiers to that base DC 15
> survival check for players in forest settings based on the
> following circumstances:
>
> Condition base DC Modifier
> ==========================================
> Heavy Trees and Overgrowth +5
> Dense Trees & Undergrowth +10
> Patches of Impenetrable Forest +12-15

Lay of the crack pipe Dirk. An effective DC 30 check to avoid getting
lost? You realize the level of difficulty that is supposed to represent
don't you?
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 9:31:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Symbol wrote:
> "Dirk Collins" wrote:
>
>>Andy Luker wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Since it's only a DC15 survival roll to avoid a natural hazard/getting
>>>lost (maybe with the standard -2 if it's a very dense forest) is it
>>>worth the effort? Most parties I've seen can manage that on a take 10.
>>
>>Oh, yeah. o.k. So uhh... there are no circumstancial modifiers for
>>getting lost?
>>
>>What about heavy rain (tropical forest) / snow (mountains) /
>>sandstorm (desert)? According to my copy of Sandstorm, a duststorm
>>provides a -2 penalty to visibility making the DC of a survival
>>roll effectively 17.
>>
>>I would routinely add the following modifiers to that base DC 15
>>survival check for players in forest settings based on the
>>following circumstances:
>>
>>Condition base DC Modifier
>>==========================================
>>Heavy Trees and Overgrowth +5
>>Dense Trees & Undergrowth +10
>>Patches of Impenetrable Forest +12-15
>
>
> Lay of the crack pipe Dirk. An effective DC 30 check to avoid getting
> lost? You realize the level of difficulty that is supposed to represent
> don't you?

First... Don't insult people, unless you can first spell
correctly, and also write correctly. It detracts from your
credibility, and you thusly lose the effect you intend when
everyone realizes just what a retard you really are in being
either too lazy, or too stupid to do even try to do something right.

Second, and I was going to address this second point with Andy as
well... The generic +-2 circumstance modifier for DC's is
insufficent in regards to properly creating a challenging
adventure when it comes to exploration of wilderland areas.

Having any character with an outdoor skill focus such as Survival,
Wilderness lore, Knowledge(Geography), Knowledge(Local), or a
similar skill will render the additional trivial penalties imposed
by the DMG for circumstances useless. Now Frostburn and Sandstorm
have upped the ante a bit in creating a more challenging
environment, in that they have provided additional bonuses and
penalties for travel through rugged terrain or difficult weather
conditions, however those modifiers are far from inclusive, and
represent a feeble stab at adding some really excellent
opportunities for roleplaying and creative gameplay.

Foremost, no party in the wilderness should be without experienced
guides or scouts. If they are, and are in a wilderness area, they
should find it remarkably easy to get lost, or otherwise
disoriented while traveling.

In addition... IRL in real wilderness (You know... the places
without roads, people to ask for directions from, and friendly
convenience stores with maps), it is easy for even experienced
adventurers to get lost. Every year, even veteran hikers and
mountain climbers die, get lost, and/or require the aid of a
search and rescue team on account they get disoriented while
traveling due to terrain and/or weather conditions. While It's a
bit harder for experienced hikers to actually get lost these days
on account of GPS receivers and the availability of excellent
quality maps, it still happens with an amazing frequency. But then
again, you didn't know that, or were not aware of that until now,
living in the open desert, Kansas, Nebraska, or your well marked
suburb, or town and all.

The problem with lakes is not that it is an obvious landmark, it's
like when you get too many lakes, and they are all obvious
landmarks. Easy to get confused as to which lake (landmark) you
are actually navigating at the moment. To understand what I'm
talking about, you would have to take an extended visit to, or
live in the wilderness areas of Idaho, Wyoming, Montana (Colorado
doesn't really count anymore...), Minnesota, Canada, Michigan,
Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Northern California, Utah, New
Mexico, Florida, or Alaska... to name a few.

The synergy bonus for area familiarity, is likewise inadequate.
When you consider that a 5th level character can have 8 ranks in
survival, and will often have a +1 or better stat bonus, it means
the DC 15 survival check for getting lost can be beat 80% of the
time, or better (With any knowledge synergy bonus). This is a
flip-flop on what actually happens (even with experienced
wilderland travelers). Usually, without a map, and/or navigational
aids the seasoned wilderland traveler will actually only arrive at
his/her intended destination about 20% of the time on the first
attempt.

Bad weather will force a party to slow down, and I'm ok with the
additional sandstorm/frostburn rules for that, but the party will
also slow down due to terrain as well, and calculating just how
much they are slowed down, depends of course, on the direction (or
many different directions), they travel, or the direction the
terrain forces them to travel, on any given day. Using my mods,
you can calculate that with a bit more detail, to provide more
adhoc, and/or spontaneous opportunities for roleplaying instead of
rollplaying.

The +2 DC penalty for being tracked that I've provided, doesn't
mean the party automagically slows down (so they can be easily
caught by their pursuers), it is provided on account they are
distracted from navigating correctly... on account, they are
focused on the folks following them. The party won't slow down,
especially if they are being followed, but it's easier for them to
miss subtle clues that will allow them to easily reach their
intended destination.

Yes, D&D has a compass. It's part of the Navigator's Kit available
in Arms & Equipment Guide, and provides a +2 bonus for Intuit
Direction, Survival, or WIlderness Lore checks (While at sea), and
on Profession(Cartographer) checks to make maps. Nothing on
navigating overland with a compass however...

Andy Wrote:
"A lot of modifiers to remember, most of which boil down to "you
can't see far enough to see any landmarks" so just stiff them with
the -4 spot penalties from the DMG weather section and the
slowed/impossible movement rate & risk of hyperthermia."

I'd think that being able to see only 10'-40' in a heavy fog would
preclude seeing far enough to spot any landmarks at all unless
they happen to stumble right onto the landmark itself. -4 seems
inadequate when viewed in this light.

I keep my list handy, especially when the party travels into
uncharted territory. Slows them down some, but then again,
traveling outside of commonly known routes tends to do that, even
for veterans, and other experienced wilderland adventurers. That's
why it's called trailblazing.

Finally on DC:

DC 5 - Easy, anyone should be able to do this
DC 10 - An Average challenge, Anyone can do this with enough time
DC 15 - Tough
DC 20 - Challenging
DC 25 - Formidable
Dc 30 - Heroic
DC 35 - Superheroic
DC 40+ - Nearly Impossible - Only the most highly trained veteran
would even have a remote chance of succeeding

What an adventurer with Max Skill Ranks, a +2 Circumstance Bonus,
and a +1 Stat Mod Bonus taking 10 can beat, Without the help of
other party members, No roll being required...

1st Level DC 17
5th Level DC 22
10th Level DC 27
15th Level DC 32
20th Level DC 37

A DC 30 obstacle, isn't so challenging as it would at first seem
to be...

Re,
Dirk
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 10:28:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Chapter DC30 "It was never this hard, even in "the Lost World"

Grengoraas the Stone Roper bard mournfully waved his tentacles.
"Mnnaarrrrrrrrr" he wailed. They were lost again. It had seemed like
such an easy journey, down the track, past the mill and on to the
"Jolly Owlbear" (the best pub for twenty miles)

However, he recalled, Donnablas the Gas Spore ranger had _promised_
he had his map and compass with him. Was it so difficult? Why had they
got lost walking for only half an hour?

PS
My take on this
The chars (4th to 5th level) need to travel for 3 days thru very dense
forest. They have a ranger (a gnome, who also owns a pig he believes is
a polymorphed llammsu, called Prince Valiant (the pig, not the gnome
ranger)).

Anyway, I want them to stumble off route perhaps twice during this bit
of the adventure. I have a couple of amusing side encounters. We play
3.0ed The gnome has a wilderness lore of +7. Hence I will say its a
DC15 to keep on track, check 3 times a day... for play balance.

To get back on track requires an intuit direct of DC 15, with bonuses
for climbing trees etc.

Thanks for all the suggestios for side encounters by the way, very
helpful.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 12:11:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Im going to take a flyer on the rules and say that it in this instance,
the gnome is not in a woodland type he is familiar with - and that the
DC15 roll represents say 4 hours of traveling and keeping all the other
PCs on the right route.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 6:15:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <1116336539.802067.306980@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Murf" <rob_murfin@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Anyway, I want them to stumble off route perhaps twice during this bit
> of the adventure. I have a couple of amusing side encounters. We play
> 3.0ed The gnome has a wilderness lore of +7. Hence I will say its a
> DC15 to keep on track, check 3 times a day... for play balance.

The gnome can take 10.

Kevin Lowe,
Tasmania.

--
Kevin Lowe,
Tasmania.
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 12:46:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Murf wrote:

>
> Anyway, I want them to stumble off route perhaps twice during this bit
> of the adventure. I have a couple of amusing side encounters.

Why do they have to get lost to have the amusing side encounters? Just
have them happen on the route and avoid screwing over the PCs who have
bothered to spend points on Wilderness Lore.

Andy
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 4:02:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Andy wrote -

> Why do they have to get lost to have the amusing side encounters?
Just
have them happen on the route and avoid screwing over the PCs who have
bothered to spend points on Wilderness Lore.

You are missing my entire point. If the PCs, say get lost once then
take steps to avoiding getting lost again, they will not have the extra
encounters. I don't want the trip to the main adventure site to be
railroaded into "day one, this happens". I dont mind if some of my
"side trek" encounters are not used - they can always be recycled in
other mods. If however they end up faffing about a bit, they will have
more encs.

My DM style is to really wing it around a basic core I have written out
in advance. Also, we never tend to do dungeon exploring adventures.
Also, to address your "dont penalise PCs who pick wilderness lore
skills", I tend to write in bits were it is helpful to use as many
skills as possible in a meaningful way. This, needs a bit of
flexibility in how you interpret how a skill could be used.

Otherwise, PC's *do* think there is little point in picking skills
other than concentration and heal.

Also (sorry for ranting) I like to give PCs new skills - like "Military
Leadership" if (as in the case of my campaign recently) one of them
role-plays rallying the town guards particularly well during a siege.
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 5:12:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Symbol wrote:

> The 5th level Ranger survival expert cannot take 10 and succeed at any
> point of the journey.

I wasn't writing you about this, in any way, shape, or form. You
had already disqualified yourself from the ongoing discussion in
this thread, on account of your advanced level of retardedness.
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 5:33:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Symbol wrote:

> "Kevin Lowe" <me@private.net> wrote in message
>>"Don't tell the ranger, but we're being followed. You know he'll just
>>get +2 DC to his rolls if he knows".
>
>
> .... and I thought it was too stupid for words. Apparently not.

Only for a metagaming master such as yourself.
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 1:31:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <1116342709.715599.218660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Murf" <rob_murfin@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Im going to take a flyer on the rules and say that it in this instance,
> the gnome is not in a woodland type he is familiar with - and that the
> DC15 roll represents say 4 hours of traveling and keeping all the other
> PCs on the right route.

The gnome can still Take 10.

Kevin Lowe,
Tasmania.

--
Kevin Lowe,
Tasmania.
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 1:36:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <GXwie.6507$w21.5605@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:

> Symbol wrote:
>
> > "Kevin Lowe" <me@private.net> wrote in message
> >>"Don't tell the ranger, but we're being followed. You know he'll just
> >>get +2 DC to his rolls if he knows".
> >
> >
> > .... and I thought it was too stupid for words. Apparently not.
>
> Only for a metagaming master such as yourself.

It looks like you are confused about what metagaming is.

Example of metagaming: "I charge the enemy, because I know that the DM
would not put an encounter we can't handle this early in the adventure".

Example of non-metagaming: "I shoot at the enemy that is not in cover,
because I get a penalty to hit enemies that are in cover".

In a world where you get a significant performance hit if you tell the
ranger you are being followed, you don't tell the ranger you are being
followed.

I hope that has helped you understand what metagaming is.

Kevin Lowe,
Tasmania.

--
Kevin Lowe,
Tasmania.
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 2:36:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Kevin Lowe" <me@private.net> wrote in message
news:me-D7D748.19245018052005@news01.comindico.com.au...

> Kevin Lowe,
> Tasmania.
>
> --
> Kevin Lowe,
> Tasmania.

I think you need to sort your sig out!
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 3:34:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Dirk Collins" <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote in message
news:CDwie.6491$w21.1266@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Symbol wrote:
>
> > The 5th level Ranger survival expert cannot take 10 and succeed at any
> > point of the journey.
>
> I wasn't writing you about this, in any way, shape, or form. You
> had already disqualified yourself from the ongoing discussion in
> this thread, on account of your advanced level of retardedness.

This is too funny. The man who posted a spelling and grammar flame while
making spelling and grammar errors. The man who is such a moron he thinks
"retardedness" is actually a word. The man who thinks it is reasonable for
a mid or high level Ranger to get lost within an hour of hitting the
Wilderness.

Your snip and run is duly noted, coward, and your position has been
utterly devestated.
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 4:54:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Kevin Lowe <me@private.net> writes:

> In article <ykfie.2861$M36.529@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
> Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:
>
>> Symbol wrote:
>
>> > Lay of the crack pipe Dirk. An effective DC 30 check to avoid getting
>> > lost? You realize the level of difficulty that is supposed to represent
>> > don't you?
>>
>> First... Don't insult people, unless you can first spell
>> correctly, and also write correctly. It detracts from your
>> credibility, and you thusly lose the effect you intend when
>> everyone realizes just what a retard you really are in being
>> either too lazy, or too stupid to do even try to do something right.
>
> Thusly?
>
>> Second, and I was going to address this second point with Andy as
>> well... The generic +-2 circumstance modifier for DC's is
>> insufficent in regards to properly creating a challenging
>> adventure when it comes to exploration of wilderland areas.
>
> Barring really extreme environments and inadequate equipment, clueful
> people do not have that much trouble. +/-2 is insufficient to make
> routine Survival rolls challenging for DnD PCs, and that is just too bad
> for DMs who want to run scenarios where the "heroes" starve in the
> wilderness.
>
There is also another part of what makes Wilderness challenging:
Travel speed.

I just ran a party through rugged mountains. When your travel speed is
a mere 6 miles per day, it becomes rather hard to move out of Orc
territory after your first Orc contact, to name just an example.

There is no need to aggravate the risks of getting lost, if even a
party that knows where it is going is constantly at risk of being
attacked by monsters (and these 'monsters' may even be normal
animals). Let alone other Wilderness hazards.

Mart

--
"We will need a longer wall when the revolution comes."
--- AJS, quoting an uncertain source.
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 4:54:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Mart van de Wege" <mvdwege.usenet@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:871x84953a.fsf@angua.ankh-morpork.lan...
> Kevin Lowe <me@private.net> writes:

> > Barring really extreme environments and inadequate equipment, clueful
> > people do not have that much trouble. +/-2 is insufficient to make
> > routine Survival rolls challenging for DnD PCs, and that is just too
bad
> > for DMs who want to run scenarios where the "heroes" starve in the
> > wilderness.
> >
> There is also another part of what makes Wilderness challenging:
> Travel speed.
>
> I just ran a party through rugged mountains. When your travel speed is
> a mere 6 miles per day, it becomes rather hard to move out of Orc
> territory after your first Orc contact, to name just an example.
>
> There is no need to aggravate the risks of getting lost, if even a
> party that knows where it is going is constantly at risk of being
> attacked by monsters (and these 'monsters' may even be normal
> animals). Let alone other Wilderness hazards.

As I noted earlier there is a slight oddity produced by increasing your
travel pace given that checks are made on a time rather than distance
increment. If the characters were hustling through Orc territory then they
would actually have less chance of becoming lost. That aside, I agree.
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 5:21:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Wed, 18 May 2005 01:12:02 GMT, Dirk Collins
<dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> carved upon a tablet of ether:

> Symbol wrote:
>
> > The 5th level Ranger survival expert cannot take 10 and succeed at any
> > point of the journey.
>
> I wasn't writing you about this, in any way, shape, or form. You
> had already disqualified yourself from the ongoing discussion in
> this thread, on account of your advanced level of retardedness.

Coming from you, especially considering the number of errors in your
spelling and grammar flame, this is the equivalent of you sticking
your fingers in your ears and shouting "CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

Are you so perfect that even your mistakes are a form of perfection?


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 5:21:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> On Wed, 18 May 2005 01:12:02 GMT, Dirk Collins carved upon a tablet of ether:
>>Symbol wrote:
>>>The 5th level Ranger survival expert cannot take 10 and succeed at any
>>>point of the journey.
>>
>>I wasn't writing you about this, in any way, shape, or form. You
>>had already disqualified yourself from the ongoing discussion in
>>this thread, on account of your advanced level of retardedness.
>
>
> Coming from you, especially considering the number of errors in your
> spelling and grammar flame, this is the equivalent of you sticking
> your fingers in your ears and shouting "CAN'T HEAR YOU!"
>
> Are you so perfect that even your mistakes are a form of perfection?

Ehhh? Not at all. I'm just not keen on folks crashing my party,
especially when they have insufficent knowledge too, and when they
just want to hurl insults, and other dung in my general direction
out of some twisted sense of simian spite.

Ahh. Then again, maybe it is the reptile portion of their brain
that is engaged when they are reading this newsgroup. Must be,
with their innate sense of which DC mods to apply, for an
off-trail hike.

Re,
Dirk
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 5:21:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> Are you so perfect that even your mistakes are a form of perfection?
>

The sad part is... I got some of the more common DC mods out of
the weather and environment tables in Sandstorm and Frostburn.

Re,
Dirk
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 5:21:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:f16l81hbhn8f8vs64uv8dvlihutfapg7jq@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 18 May 2005 01:12:02 GMT, Dirk Collins
> <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> carved upon a tablet of ether:
>
> > Symbol wrote:
> >
> > > The 5th level Ranger survival expert cannot take 10 and succeed at
any
> > > point of the journey.
> >
> > I wasn't writing you about this, in any way, shape, or form. You
> > had already disqualified yourself from the ongoing discussion in
> > this thread, on account of your advanced level of retardedness.
>
> Coming from you, especially considering the number of errors in your
> spelling and grammar flame, this is the equivalent of you sticking
> your fingers in your ears and shouting "CAN'T HEAR YOU!"
>
> Are you so perfect that even your mistakes are a form of perfection?

It's Dirk, he's a hypocrital juice wearing fool who is always wrong but
never admits it. This behaviour is no more surprising now than it has been
at any other time. Remember his claim that the Romans killed Archimedes
because they persecuted intellectuals? Still makes me chuckle that one.
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 5:21:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Dirk Collins" <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote in message
news:Zdxie.3238$M36.2074@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
> > Are you so perfect that even your mistakes are a form of perfection?
> >
>
> The sad part is... I got some of the more common DC mods out of
> the weather and environment tables in Sandstorm and Frostburn.

Don't even bother lying to group and pretend those supplements produce
similar results to yours.
May 18, 2005 5:28:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Wed, 18 May 2005 11:36:00 +0100, "Symbol" <jb70@talk21.com> raised
a finger to the sky and proclaimed:

>
>"Dirk Collins" <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote in message
>news:Zdxie.3238$M36.2074@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>>
>> > Are you so perfect that even your mistakes are a form of perfection?
>> >
>>
>> The sad part is... I got some of the more common DC mods out of
>> the weather and environment tables in Sandstorm and Frostburn.
>
>Don't even bother lying to group and pretend those supplements produce
>similar results to yours.

Well, I don't own Sandstorm, but p11 of Frostburn does have mods.
However, Dirk, note that the

Precipitation (Snow) +2
Snowstorm +4
Blizzard +6
White-out conditions +10

are *not* cumulative.

Yes, trying not to get lost on a glacier, in a white-out blizzard,
should be DC 30. But that's about as hard as it gets.

--
Either way, I hate you Count Chocula, if I didn't already.
- Drifter Bob, rec.games.frp.dnd
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 6:43:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Wed, 18 May 2005 01:47:05 GMT, Dirk Collins
<dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> carved upon a tablet of ether:

> Ehhh? Not at all. I'm just not keen on folks crashing my party,
> especially when they have insufficent knowledge too, and when they
> just want to hurl insults, and other dung in my general direction
> out of some twisted sense of simian spite.
>
> Ahh. Then again, maybe it is the reptile portion of their brain
> that is engaged when they are reading this newsgroup. Must be,
> with their innate sense of which DC mods to apply, for an
> off-trail hike.

If that was the case you should've said so, rather than flaming their
spelling and writing, especially when their obvious spelling mistake
was probably a typo. Your initial argument was that they weren't
eligible to discuss matters with you, not because they were ignorant,
but because they couldn't spell correctly.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 11:20:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Johnston wrote:
>> Unable to find dry wood because it rained, you spend a damp cold
>> night.
>> Find poisonous berries/mushrooms and mistake them for edible.
>> Drink from contaminated water. Too bad you didn't know to boil it.
>> Your campfire gets out of control. You must scramble to put it out.
>> You find moss growing on the south side of a tree. Now you're even
>> more lost.
>> Encounter with irritant plant life or bugs leaves someone scratching
>> for days
>> A character steps carelessly and twists an ankle.
>> Animal or thorn scratches become infected. A character develops a
>> fever.

Symbol wrote:
> Unless he means a party of stupid, stoned teenagers these things
> shouldn't be an issue for professional adventurers. Even 1st level
> ones.

Right. Most of those things are covered by a DC 10 Survival check:

DC 10: Get along in the wild. Move up to one-half your overland
speed while hunting and foraging (no food or water supplies needed).
You can provide food and water for one other person for every 2
points by which your check result exceeds 10.

Survival is usable untrained, so finding good food and water should be
trivial for a typical PC party; just take 10. The group's divine caster
can pick up the slack if somebody has a Wisdom penalty, and you're set
if anybody actually has ranks in Survival.

A couple of the issues are covered by a DC 15 Survival check:

DC 15: Keep from getting lost or avoid natural hazards, such as
quicksand.

Again, this is trivial if anybody actually has ranks in Survival. If
not, you'll need to take your chances with the dice and may get into
trouble. This is rarely a problem in practice -- wandering around lost
just means more XP, after all! -- but if it ever seriously bothers the
party, somebody will probably drop a few ranks into Survival at the next
level-up (e.g., this will only ever happen once).
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 11:26:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Firelock wrote:
>> Party's Druid, Ranger or Barbarian gets put out of commission, many
>> parties I've seen only have one guy with the Master of the Wild motif
>> going on. Everyone else maxed out on something other than wilderness
>> survival - *very* common. Oops.

Symbol wrote:
> Now that is when it could get interesting....

Yeppers. It might be a good idea to keep a few "dumb survival
encounters" on hand for situations like this. While they probably won't
seriously inconvenience the PCs, it'll make them appreciate Survival
Guy. (One problem with playing Survival Guy is that many of your
abilities are so trivial that you don't get much spotlight time out of
them. This is a way of indirectly making the survivalist role more
glamorous.)

By the way, Clerics with the travel domain also make good Survivalists,
and rogues are OK too if you don't mind spending a few cross-class
points (or cherry-picking a ranger level). Travel is one of the more
popular cleric domains in my campaigns, since our group often lacks a
high-level arcane caster.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 11:36:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Murf <rob_murfin@hotmail.com> wrote:
> If the PCs, say get lost once then take steps to avoiding getting lost
> again, they will not have the extra encounters. I don't want the trip
> to the main adventure site to be railroaded into "day one, this
> happens". I dont mind if some of my "side trek" encounters are not
> used - they can always be recycled in other mods. If however they end
> up faffing about a bit, they will have more encs.

Instead of making it easier for the PCs to get lost (which makes them
feel incompetent), tempt them with clues that lead off the main trail
into side encounters (which makes them feel in control). If they're not
in a rush, or the clue is tasty enough, they'll go for the side
encounter every time IME.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 2:11:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Murf wrote:
> Any sugegstions for a table of "things that happen to the party when
> they get lost in very dense forest"?
>
> In a mod Im writing the party need to make wilderness survival roles
> each day to avoid something interesting/nasty happening to them.
>
> I don't want it to be "Encounter a Bug bear", I was thinking more along
> the lines of
>
> - Stumble into a concealed patch of swampy ground
> - come across a dificult to cross stream
> etc
>
> suggestions?
>
Raccoons eat all their food while they are asleep , and they have to
forage. If they fail their check, they still gather food but it's not good
(either they're allergic to it, or it's mildly poisonous/diseased).

Old forgotten traps, unsprung, from when the king battled his evil
nephew for control of the throne. These are things like covered
pits, deadfalls, etc.

The ground is primarily limestone, and sinkholes may open up without
warning beneath the party.

A disease has struck certain species of trees (super-termites?), causing
them
to appear sound but are prone to fall over suddenly, imperiling the party as
the vibration of their footfalls fells the weak ones. Maybe with this
you could
use Knowledge (nature) to understand the peril and/or help recognize
afflicted trees before they fall.

Awinter storm blows in, blanketing them with snow, ice, or just fog. They
may get lost and/or have to protect themselves from the cold.

The fey have fairy rings (mushroom circles) sprout whenever they have one
of their weird rites. Sometimes wild magic lurks there, and it taints
mortals
who pass through them. You can treat that like a trap which bestows a
minor
curse if not avoided via a Survival check.
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 2:22:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <me-02AAAA.21022717052005@news01.comindico.com.au>,
Kevin Lowe <me@private.net> wrote:
>"Don't tell the ranger, but we're being followed. You know he'll just
>get +2 DC to his rolls if he knows".
>
>Heck, give them -2 to every roll they make while someone is following
>them. It makes as much sense.

Hmm. Maybe if they're being chased by Chun the Unavoidable...
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 2:26:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <me-84D7DC.19303718052005@news01.comindico.com.au>,
Kevin Lowe <me@private.net> wrote:
>
>Kevin Lowe,
>Tasmania.
>
>--
>Kevin Lowe,
>Tasmania.

Has Tasmania decided to imitate New Zealand and split into North and South
islands?

--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 2:47:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Wed, 18 May 2005 11:39:16 +0100, "Symbol" <jb70@talk21.com> carved
upon a tablet of ether:

> It's Dirk, he's a hypocrital juice wearing fool who is always wrong but
> never admits it. This behaviour is no more surprising now than it has been
> at any other time. Remember his claim that the Romans killed Archimedes
> because they persecuted intellectuals? Still makes me chuckle that one.

But they did!!! As proof, I offer you the murder of Archimedes. How
can you be so dense???


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 2:47:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:187m81d1v7adnq6ud2ovqh30bvlftah8bb@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 18 May 2005 11:39:16 +0100, "Symbol" <jb70@talk21.com> carved
> upon a tablet of ether:
>
> > It's Dirk, he's a hypocrital juice wearing fool who is always wrong
but
> > never admits it. This behaviour is no more surprising now than it has
been
> > at any other time. Remember his claim that the Romans killed
Archimedes
> > because they persecuted intellectuals? Still makes me chuckle that
one.
>
> But they did!!! As proof, I offer you the murder of Archimedes. How
> can you be so dense???

Ask Dirk he's the expert!
!