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"Prod" undead

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Anonymous
May 13, 2005 4:21:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

I need an undead army.
If I go by the rules for controlling created undead and controlling
rebuked undead, I will also need a cleric army, but I can't have one.
Therefore, (I think) I need some means of "driving" idle mindless
undead (i.e. the ones that are not controlled by anybody and not
ordered to do anything else.)
The only means I can think of would be a spell like:

Prod Undead
Necromancy (Evocation?)
Cleric 0/Wizard 0/Sorcerer 0/Blackguard 0
Components: V, S, F/DF
Range: Close (or 30ft fixed?)
Duration: 10 minutes/level
Saving throw: Will negates
SR: Yes.

Although undead do not feel pain, this spell allows the caster to cause
something similar to mild but unpleasant pain in any one undead. Undead
perceive the caster as the source of the pain. Mindless undead, unless
they have other standing orders or make their saving throw, take at
least one move action to move away the caster until they get out of the
spell's range.
The caster can "prod" one undead per round as a standard action, for
the duration of the spell.

The pain does not cause damage, and can never, under any circumstance,
override a task or set of orders given to the mindless undead by its
creator or a turning/controlling character.

Free willed undead do feel the pain, but have no compulsion to run away
from the caster. The spell does nothing more than get their attention.

Arcane Focus: any sharp object, including a piercing weapon, with which
the caster must make poking motions toward the target undead.

Any other ideas for "prodding" undead?
If not, please critique the spell. Thanks.

Silveraxe.

More about : prod undead

Anonymous
May 13, 2005 1:06:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Silveraxe wrote:
> I need an undead army.
> If I go by the rules for controlling created undead and controlling
> rebuked undead, I will also need a cleric army, but I can't have one.
> Therefore, (I think) I need some means of "driving" idle mindless
> undead (i.e. the ones that are not controlled by anybody and not
> ordered to do anything else.)
> The only means I can think of would be a spell like:
>

> Any other ideas for "prodding" undead?
> If not, please critique the spell. Thanks.

Leadership. I remember some specific undead version on wizards site,
I'm sure it's made it into one of the suppliments by now.

Other option is to use "awaken undead" from savage species - then you
can cajole all your undead through diplomacy or what not.

- Justisaur.
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 5:29:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Silveraxe" <avidroleplayer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1115968880.339451.160340@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>I need an undead army.
> If I go by the rules for controlling created undead and controlling
> rebuked undead, I will also need a cleric army, but I can't have one.
> Therefore, (I think) I need some means of "driving" idle mindless
> undead (i.e. the ones that are not controlled by anybody and not
> ordered to do anything else.)
> The only means I can think of would be a spell like:
>
> Prod Undead
> Necromancy (Evocation?)
> Cleric 0/Wizard 0/Sorcerer 0/Blackguard 0
> Components: V, S, F/DF
> Range: Close (or 30ft fixed?)
> Duration: 10 minutes/level
> Saving throw: Will negates
> SR: Yes.
>
> Although undead do not feel pain, this spell allows the caster to cause
> something similar to mild but unpleasant pain in any one undead. Undead
> perceive the caster as the source of the pain. Mindless undead, unless
> they have other standing orders or make their saving throw, take at
> least one move action to move away the caster until they get out of the
> spell's range.
> The caster can "prod" one undead per round as a standard action, for
> the duration of the spell.
>
> The pain does not cause damage, and can never, under any circumstance,
> override a task or set of orders given to the mindless undead by its
> creator or a turning/controlling character.
>
> Free willed undead do feel the pain, but have no compulsion to run away
> from the caster. The spell does nothing more than get their attention.
>
> Arcane Focus: any sharp object, including a piercing weapon, with which
> the caster must make poking motions toward the target undead.
>
> Any other ideas for "prodding" undead?
> If not, please critique the spell. Thanks.
>
> Silveraxe.
>
Nice Idea. Could dumb down a Wand of Lightning to transform it into Ye Olde
Cattle Prod, too, for liiving creatures

--==--
Jerry Chesko
Related resources
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 6:07:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Justisaur wrote:
> Silveraxe wrote:
> > I need an undead army.
> > If I go by the rules for controlling created undead and controlling
> > rebuked undead, I will also need a cleric army, but I can't have
one.
> > Therefore, (I think) I need some means of "driving" idle mindless
> > undead (i.e. the ones that are not controlled by anybody and not
> > ordered to do anything else.)
> > The only means I can think of would be a spell like:
> >
>
> > Any other ideas for "prodding" undead?
> > If not, please critique the spell. Thanks.
>
> Leadership. I remember some specific undead version on wizards site,
> I'm sure it's made it into one of the suppliments by now.
>
> Other option is to use "awaken undead" from savage species - then you
> can cajole all your undead through diplomacy or what not.

I added a ring to one of my houserule's sets that allowed control
of extra undead. I don't have the rules handy but the Phlactery
of Undead Turning and Bead of Karma show that items that allow you
to act like a higher level characer are possible. (I am pretty sure
I based on the 3.0 version of the ring of animal friendship.)

IIRC I went with a relatively low price for the ring and a small
EP cost for each mindless undead controlled rather than the over
1,000 GP per extra HD controlled suggested by the related items
(this item was made obsolete by awaken undead since it is a
reasonable spell, cheaper than the EP cost I assigned, and
doesn't need an item). But you can make your own item up, it can
even be a unique "ancient artifact, that must be destroyed", in
which case you don't much need to worry as much about
manufacturing costs or prerequisites, and even game balance
concerns are minimized. (But if you don't make sure the item
really needs to be destroyed don't be surprised when your PC's
try to use it or sell it, so worry some about market price and
game balance.)

Also consider that a first level adept can use a wand of animate
dead and control up to 4 HD of undead. While 1st level adepts are
rarer than 1st level warriors in the default setting, they are
far from uncommon. If your world can manage armies of warriors
then your villians should be able to manage regiments of adepts,
especially if they spent any time training and preparing.

It also helps if your villian owns a black onyx mine.

DougL
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 10:53:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Silveraxe wrote:
>> I need an undead army. If I go by the rules for controlling created
>> undead and controlling rebuked undead, I will also need a cleric
>> army, but I can't have one.

Justisaur wrote:
> Leadership. I remember some specific undead version on wizards site,
> I'm sure it's made it into one of the suppliments by now.

That seems reasonable.

> Other option is to use "awaken undead" from savage species - then you
> can cajole all your undead through diplomacy or what not.

I suppose you could also command undead who can themselves command
undead, setting up a chain of command. You control the captains, and
they control the troops.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 12:15:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

You may want to consider the following spell. It was originally from
2E Tome Of Magic, but I adapted it to 3E.

Undead Plague
Necromancy [Evil]
Level Cle 9, Sor/Wiz 9
Components V, S, XP
Casting Time 2 rounds
Range 1 mile
Area Of Effect 30,000 square ft
Duration See text

By means of this potent spell, the caster summons many ranks of
skeletons to do his bidding. The skeletons are formed from any and all
humanoid bones within the area of effect. The number of skeletons
depends on the terrain in the area. A battlesite or graveyard will
yield 10 skeletons per 300 square feet. A long inhabited area yields 3
skeletons per 300 square ft. A wilderness yields 1 skeleton per 300
square ft. The maximum number of skeletons that can be summoned is
1,000.

The skeletons created have one extra hit die than as described in the
Monstrous Manual and a Turning resistance of 1. These undead do not
count against the number of undead the caster may have created by other
spells, nor for clerics, rebuked into obedience, but the caster may not
cast another Undead Plague until skeletons summoned by this spell are
all destroyed or dismissed by the caster.

XP cost: 1 XP per skeleton summoned.

Gerald Katz
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 2:24:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Oh, this isn't about unusual recruiting methods for "The Troubles"...
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 1:33:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In <dejc819qfotro42580f1s672quulkn7sts@4ax.com> Jim Davies <jim@aaargh.NoBleedinSpam.org> writes:

<snip>

>Bind Undead
>Necromancy
>Cleric 2/Wizard 2/Sorcerer 2/Blackguard 2
>Components: V, S, F/DF
>Range: Close
>Duration: One day
>Saving throw: None
>SR: Yes.

> This spell binds 2HD of mindless undead per level to the command of
>the caster, through one additional such undead, known here as the
>"sergeant". All commands must be passed to the sergeant by some other
>mechanism, and the others will follow an identical command. The
>sergeant must have more Hit Dice than any of its individual
>subordinates.
> All the undead must stay within Close range of the sergeant. If any
>of them goes out of range, control of that one is permanently lost. If
>the sergeant is destroyed, the spell ends.
> If the sergeant is successfully Turned or Rebuked, the others will
>behave in the same way.
> A sergeant can have subordinate sergeants, and so forth, though this
>makes a very fragile command structure.

>For example, a 5C could have a Gnoll Zombie sergeant controlling 10 HD
>of other stuff (of less than 4HD each), including 2 Human Zombie
>sergeants which each control 10HD of normal skeletons. They all go
>around in a single mob doing exactly the same thing. If the gnoll is
>turned, all of them run away.


>A higher level version would increase the numbers (3xHD?) and maybe
>the range.

Or allow the addition of a "second in command" to give a little
resilence to command structures in the face of sergeant destruction.


--
Remove any bits of tatt after the at in my address to reply
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 2:10:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Silveraxe" <avidroleplayer@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1115968880.339451.160340@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

> I need an undead army.
> If I go by the rules for controlling created undead and
> controlling rebuked undead, I will also need a cleric army, but
> I can't have one.

So give the head baddie an artefact to do the job.

E.G. Amulet of Orcus. This artefact will allow the owner to
control the cube of his level (max 20th) in HD of undead (max
8,000 HD). Wearer Turns / Rebukes / Controls undead as 40th Level.
Add nasty side effects to taste.

If you want a bigger army, make it the fourth power (160,000 HD at
20th level)

As others have pointed out, undead can themselves control undead.
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 6:20:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> If the spell or artifact hasn't got much purpose beyond allowing the
> character his undead army, why not just handwave it and let him have
his
> undead army, no spell or artifact needed?

Because making it a spell or especially an artifact allows
it to be used as a McGuffin - and we all know how useful
it can be, storywise, to have McGuffins involved. :-)

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 9:46:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

stq@stq.gro.ku.invalid wrote:

> > I need an undead army.
> > If I go by the rules for controlling created undead and
> > controlling rebuked undead, I will also need a cleric army, but
> > I can't have one.
>
> So give the head baddie an artefact to do the job.
>
> E.G. Amulet of Orcus. This artefact will allow the owner to
> control the cube of his level (max 20th) in HD of undead (max
> 8,000 HD). Wearer Turns / Rebukes / Controls undead as 40th Level.
> Add nasty side effects to taste.
>
> If you want a bigger army, make it the fourth power (160,000 HD at
> 20th level)
>
> As others have pointed out, undead can themselves control undead.

If the spell or artifact hasn't got much purpose beyond allowing the
character his undead army, why not just handwave it and let him have his
undead army, no spell or artifact needed?


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 1:55:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Silveraxe wrote:
> I need an undead army.
> If I go by the rules for controlling created undead and controlling
> rebuked undead, I will also need a cleric army, but I can't have one.
> Therefore, (I think) I need some means of "driving" idle mindless
> undead (i.e. the ones that are not controlled by anybody and not
> ordered to do anything else.)

Not nessesarily. One Sor20 with Command Undead can control well over
1000 mindless undead (Including bonus spells he may have up to 66
slots per day of level 2+, and every one of them completely controls
a mindless undead for 20 days, in theory that's 1,320 undead, but he
will probably want to save a few of the higher level slots for other
things). If he also has Animate Dead he can control an additional
40HD. If he gets extend spell he can nearly double the number.

If he invents a Mass Command Undead spell he can control well over
10,000 mindless undead. (Over 20,000 with extend spell).

If some of the undead he controls are not mindless, but are capable
of controling other undead the numbers get into the millions.

Of course he won't be doing much else with his time, since I am
using most of his higher level slots. But as long as he has a
few scrolls to help him escape he can always come back the next
day loaded for bear if he takes any losses.

DougL
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 2:53:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:

> > If the spell or artifact hasn't got much purpose beyond allowing the
> > character his undead army, why not just handwave it and let him have his
> > undead army, no spell or artifact needed?
>
> Because making it a spell or especially an artifact allows
> it to be used as a McGuffin - and we all know how useful
> it can be, storywise, to have McGuffins involved. :-)

But why does it need stats? If all the PCs are going to do is steal it
and have it stolen back and steal it again and finally destroy it... why
does it matter how many undead exactly it allows the user to control?


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 2:53:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <MPG.1cf27e0655bb21e4989a90@news.iskon.hr>,
Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote:
>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Because making it a spell or especially an artifact allows
>> it to be used as a McGuffin - and we all know how useful
>> it can be, storywise, to have McGuffins involved. :-)
>
>But why does it need stats? If all the PCs are going to do is steal it
>and have it stolen back and steal it again and finally destroy it... why
>does it matter how many undead exactly it allows the user to control?

Because the PC's may well steal it, have it stolen back, steal it again,
_use it_ and finally destroy it.


--
Michael
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NPC rights activist | Nameless Abominations are people too.
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 4:44:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

DougL wrote:
> Silveraxe wrote:
> > I need an undead army.
> > If I go by the rules for controlling created undead and controlling
> > rebuked undead, I will also need a cleric army, but I can't have
one.
>
> Not nessesarily. One Sor20 with Command Undead can control well over
> 1000 mindless undead (Including bonus spells he may have up to 66
> slots per day of level 2+, and every one of them completely controls
> a mindless undead for 20 days,

What "Command Undead?" Where's that spell?

Silveraxe.
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 4:57:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Silveraxe wrote:
> DougL wrote:
> > Silveraxe wrote:
> > > I need an undead army.
> > > If I go by the rules for controlling created undead and
controlling
> > > rebuked undead, I will also need a cleric army, but I can't have
> one.
> >
> > Not nessesarily. One Sor20 with Command Undead can control well
over
> > 1000 mindless undead (Including bonus spells he may have up to 66
> > slots per day of level 2+, and every one of them completely
controls
> > a mindless undead for 20 days,
>
> What "Command Undead?" Where's that spell?

The PHB and SRD. It is in the core rules for 3.5.

DougL
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 12:02:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> typed:

>stq@stq.gro.ku.invalid wrote:
>
>> > I need an undead army.
>> > If I go by the rules for controlling created undead and
>> > controlling rebuked undead, I will also need a cleric army, but
>> > I can't have one.
>>
>> So give the head baddie an artefact to do the job.
>>
>> E.G. Amulet of Orcus. This artefact will allow the owner to
>> control the cube of his level (max 20th) in HD of undead (max
>> 8,000 HD). Wearer Turns / Rebukes / Controls undead as 40th Level.
>> Add nasty side effects to taste.
>>
>> If you want a bigger army, make it the fourth power (160,000 HD at
>> 20th level)
>>
>> As others have pointed out, undead can themselves control undead.
>
>If the spell or artifact hasn't got much purpose beyond allowing the
>character his undead army, why not just handwave it and let him have his
>undead army, no spell or artifact needed?

Because this way, the PCs can steal the amulet instead of having to
chop through 160,000 HD of zombies. Some players might enjoy a bit of
hack and slash, but I suspect the attraction may fade some time before
they finish.

--
Jim or Sarah Davies, but probably Jim

D&D and Star Fleet Battles stuff on http://www.aaargh.org
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 12:22:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote in
news:MPG.1cf18d5493b4ee59989a8f@news.iskon.hr:

> stq@stq.gro.ku.invalid wrote:
>
>> > I need an undead army.
>> > If I go by the rules for controlling created undead and
>> > controlling rebuked undead, I will also need a cleric army,
>> > but I can't have one.
>>
>> So give the head baddie an artefact to do the job.
>>
>> E.G. Amulet of Orcus. This artefact will allow the owner to
>> control the cube of his level (max 20th) in HD of undead (max
>> 8,000 HD). Wearer Turns / Rebukes / Controls undead as 40th
>> Level. Add nasty side effects to taste.
>>
>> If you want a bigger army, make it the fourth power (160,000 HD
>> at 20th level)
>>
>> As others have pointed out, undead can themselves control
>> undead.
>
> If the spell or artifact hasn't got much purpose beyond allowing
> the character his undead army, why not just handwave it and let
> him have his undead army, no spell or artifact needed?

Because it introduces a weakness that the players might be able to
exploit.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 1:50:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

mlush@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (Mr. M.J. Lush) abagooba zoink larblortch news:D 69pon
$1t2$1@helium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk:

> In article <MPG.1cf27e0655bb21e4989a90@news.iskon.hr>,
> Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote:
>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> Because making it a spell or especially an artifact allows
>>> it to be used as a McGuffin - and we all know how useful
>>> it can be, storywise, to have McGuffins involved. :-)
>>
>>But why does it need stats? If all the PCs are going to do is steal it
>>and have it stolen back and steal it again and finally destroy it... why
>>does it matter how many undead exactly it allows the user to control?
>
> Because the PC's may well steal it, have it stolen back, steal it again,
> _use it_ and finally destroy it.
>
>

In that case, it's not a McGuffin. A McGuffin only functions to get the
plot started, after which it is discarded immediately.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 9:11:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

DougL wrote:
> Silveraxe wrote:
> > DougL wrote:
> > > Silveraxe wrote:
> > > > I need an undead army.
> > >
> > > One Sor20 with Command Undead can control well over 1000
mindless undead
> >
> > What "Command Undead?" Where's that spell?
>
> The PHB and SRD. It is in the core rules for 3.5.

Blearh.
Problem solved.
Thanks.

Silveraxe.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 12:40:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <Xns9658DE28B15EEYarblookie@216.196.97.136>,
Bryan J. Maloney <cavaggione@comcast.ten> wrote:
>mlush@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (Mr. M.J. Lush) abagooba zoink larblortch news:D 69pon
>$1t2$1@helium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk:
>> In article <MPG.1cf27e0655bb21e4989a90@news.iskon.hr>,
>> Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote:
>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> Because making it a spell or especially an artifact allows
>>>> it to be used as a McGuffin - and we all know how useful
>>>> it can be, storywise, to have McGuffins involved. :-)
>>>
>>>But why does it need stats? If all the PCs are going to do is steal it
>>>and have it stolen back and steal it again and finally destroy it... why
>>>does it matter how many undead exactly it allows the user to control?
>>
>> Because the PC's may well steal it, have it stolen back, steal it again,
>> _use it_ and finally destroy it.
>>
>In that case, it's not a McGuffin. A McGuffin only functions to get the
>plot started, after which it is discarded immediately.

Under that definition the Maltese Falcon is not a McGuffin, as its
not discarded immediately.

A little Googling gives me these definitions.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin&gt;
A MacGuffin (sometimes McGuffin) is a plot device that motivates the
characters and advance the story, particularly one whose importance
is accepted completely by the story's characters, yet from the
audience's perspective it might be minimally explained or may test
their suspension of disbelief if it is scrutinized. The device,
usually an object, is common in films, especially thrillers.

and <http://johnaugust.com/site/glossary&gt; quotes
A device or plot element that catches the viewer's attention or drives
the plot. It is generally something that every character is concerned
with. The McGuffin is essentially something that the entire story is
built around and yet has no real relevance.

In films a McGuffin is not normally used, its just pursued, in an
RPG a GM does not (or at least should not) have that much narrative
control. Its _always_ possible for players to find a creative way
to use the McGuffin. An RPG McGuffin needs stats so the GM can
adjudicate the unexpected.

How many gp is the Maltese Falcon worth? The players may just do a
bunk and sell it in the next kingdom and/or Dimension.

Exactly what is in thoes stolen scrolls? the players will probably
read them and may try to use the information themselfs.

Exactly who can use the artifact? A really epic use magic device roll
and/or wish(s) could spoof that.

If the artifact utterly destroys anyone 'of good heart' who trys to
use it, they could hand it to the villian then use a wish
to make him appear to be 'of good heart'....

--
Michael
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NPC rights activist | Nameless Abominations are people too.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 4:47:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Silveraxe wrote:
> DougL wrote:
> > Silveraxe wrote:
> > > DougL wrote:
> > > > Silveraxe wrote:
> > > > > I need an undead army.
> > > >
> > > > One Sor20 with Command Undead can control well over 1000
> mindless undead
> > >
> > > What "Command Undead?" Where's that spell?
> >
> > The PHB and SRD. It is in the core rules for 3.5.
>
> Blearh.
> Problem solved.
> Thanks.

Thing is no one on this thread seems to have noticed
the spell. I posted earlier without remembering it.

Then the other day I was creating a Sor13 for a new
setting and wanted some unconventional spell choices,
and there it was. Almost perfect for what you are doing.

I will point out that a Wizard can use a bunch of
PoP and command an almost unlimited number, and if
allowed an unlimited uses per day item would only be
10,800 GP.

The real mystery is "why isn't this spell on the
cleric list"?

DougL
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 3:07:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

DougL wrote:
> Silveraxe wrote:
> > DougL wrote:
> > > Silveraxe wrote:
> > > > DougL wrote:
> > > > > Silveraxe wrote:
> > > > > > I need an undead army.
> > > > >
> > > > > One Sor20 with Command Undead can control well over 1000
> > mindless undead
> > > >
> > > > What "Command Undead?" Where's that spell?
> > >
> > > The PHB and SRD. It is in the core rules for 3.5.
> >
> > Blearh.
> > Problem solved.
> > Thanks.
>
> Thing is no one on this thread seems to have noticed
> the spell. I posted earlier without remembering it.

Yeah. It's one of 3.5's subtle changes that are damn easy to just skim
over.

> The real mystery is "why isn't this spell on the cleric list"?

Indeed.
That's why, for me, now, it is.

Silveraxe.
!