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Upgrading.....what to do ?

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December 25, 2001 6:56:57 PM

Ok....most of you know me......now here's my situation......

I'm running a Celeron 300A OC'd to 450.......and i JUST CANT STAND IT ANYMORE! LoL

Anyways....here's the rest of my system

AZZA PT-6IBP Slot-1 Motherboard
Apacer 256MB PC-133 CL2 SDRAM
40GB Seagate Barracuda IV 7200rpm IDE Hard Drive
Diamond Viper V770 TNT2 32MB AGP Video Card
Aureal Vortex 2 Sound Card
Lucent Technologies 56K V.90 PCI Modem
ASUS 52X CD-ROM Drive
350 Watt PSU
Case with 9 drive bays
I'm also running Windows XP Professional......
Four 80mm Case Fans PLUS a 2-Fan Hard Drive cooler by Just Cooler...
Including Power Supply Fan and CPU fan, there's a total of 8 fan's in my case....therefor I think there's enough airflow in there for whatever upgrade I get.....what you think ? =)

Anyways, heres the thing.......I have EXACTLY $325 Canadian to blow.......The less the better.....

What I WANT to do is upgrade to an Athlon XP 1600+...but I don't even come CLOSE to having enough money for that....
well, the cheapest board I can find ANYWHERE is the ECS K7S5A, which is $99 Canadrian here......the Cheapest Athlon XP 1600+ I can find is $209 Canadian.....i ALMOST havw enough for that, but I don't like the ECS Motherboard, not one bit...No tweaking/overclocking options at all.......bad quality control, hardly anyone recomends it (including myself) and I really rely on Quality....anyways.......so If anyone thinks they can find a better option for the AMD Path, please let me know.........

My other option is to get another Intel CPU For my current board......NOW, i know I can set my board to 133MHz FSB in the Bios and all my PCI cards will stay at 33MHz...but the AGP will be out of spec, thats fine with me as i know the Video Card will handle the 89MHz AGP Speed.........now the real question is, what Can I stick into my Slot 1 Motherboard that will boost the speed of this machine TREMENDOUSLY from it's current state......Overclocking is fine with me too, so if I can get a slower chip that'll save me some money and it's OC potential is great, thats fine by me aswell....

My other problem Is I can't find the Pentium 3 700MHz chip ANYWHERE here.....I know Crashman and a few others would recomend that to me, to OC to 933MHz....which I do aswell...BUT i can't find the friggin' thing ANYWHERE here...oh, also, online ordering IS NOT AN OPTION AT ALL, therefore it has to be a computer store so I can pay in cash.......

Here's a couple Computer stores:
<b><A HREF="http://www.infonec.com/mboard.htm" target="_new">INFONEC</A></b>
&
<b><A HREF="http://https://shop.pccanada.com/sp_cpu2.shtml" target="_new">PREMIER CANADA</A></b>

Infonec sell's the P3 667, 733(oem), 800, 850, 866, 933 & 1000 - $195, $189, $209, $239, $219, $235, $255
Premier sell's the P3 1000, 1100 & 1200 only.... (out of the question)...

Ok, anyways.......now, these are all FC-PGA 370 CPU's, so I know i'll need a Sloket Adapter.....but I need to know, will all of these run in my motherboard ? I have the absolute latest Bios which is dated 07/08/99, and that update was so that this board will support the P3 CPU, but I don't know if they meant P3 Katmai or P3 Coppermine......all help is needed here.....now.....as for the Coppermine Celeron's, I know I can use those with the Sloket aswell, and I know they are obviously slower then the equivelant P3, but is there one that I can stick in here that I can OC the hell out of it to equal for that performance lose ?? ANY suggestions are welcome.......ALSO....this system after the new CPU is stuck in here, will stay like that, as I will eventually after this be building an Athlon XP system, and this system will than become a File Server......Becasue I'm not really into hard core gaming....i play Command & Conquer Tiberian Sun, Total Annihilation, Occasional Half-Life, and Star Wars - X-Wing Alliance, and this TNT2 Card is really holding up to those games even with this little bastard of a CPU in here...but when it comes to multitaksing in Windows...HOLY CRAP I just can't take it anymore......I have good EVERYTHING in here (Ram, CD-ROM, Video Card, Sound Card, Fans, etc.) and for a 450, it surprisngly runs REALLY well, just when it comes to multitasking its a POS....even though it honestly runs better than a friends P4 1.3GHz system...i need to upgrade the CPU....so i need to know what CPU I should stick in here...whether it be a Celeron and OC the hell out of it......or a P3 and be able to have AT LEAST 933MHz.....

Yes, thats the other thing, I want to be up and near the 1GHz mark.......933MHz is an option.....but If i can pay less than I have to get 933MHz - 1GHz WITH overclocking than that's what I'd rather do, cuz the more money I have in my pocket the better, I still need to get a few other things (non-computer related)

Thanx and please, all comments and recommendations are welcome, ALSO, all prices are in Canadian dollars, and I'd appreciate it if you gave me quotes in CDN $'s =)



-MeTaL RoCkEr

My <font color=red>Z28</font color=red> can take your <font color=blue>P4</font color=blue> off the line!

More about : upgrading

December 26, 2001 12:39:46 AM

Common people, can't anyone help me out ?!?

Crashman? Matisaro?

Anyone.......grr....

I don't want to sound impatient, I just REALLY REALLY need this upgrade.....and I wanna know my options PLUS I need to know whether or not my board will support those options.......aswell as everything else I listed in my first post......

-MeTaL RoCkEr

My <font color=red>Z28</font color=red> can take your <font color=blue>P4</font color=blue> off the line!
December 26, 2001 2:22:04 AM

329$ Canadian.

How much is that in us dollars.

I will assume 220$

You could just about enough for an xp1600 and a k7s5a mobo, but be sure to buy the motherboard locally, so you can return it quickly if it is doa.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 26, 2001 2:24:14 AM

Quote:
What I WANT to do is upgrade to an Athlon XP 1600+...but I don't even come CLOSE to having enough money for that....
well, the cheapest board I can find ANYWHERE is the ECS K7S5A, which is $99 Canadrian here......the Cheapest Athlon XP 1600+ I can find is $209 Canadian.....i ALMOST havw enough for that, but I don't like the ECS Motherboard, not one bit...No tweaking/overclocking options at all.......bad quality control, hardly anyone recomends it (including myself) and I really rely on Quality....anyways.......so If anyone thinks they can find a better option for the AMD Path, please let me know.........


The ecs board can have a bios dled which is hacked to allow overclocking/tweaking.

Also if you get a good board it will run flawlessly, you know if its bad right away.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 26, 2001 2:25:36 AM

http://www.ncix.com/canada/boxingdaypromo.cfm
K7S5A- $88.88
1600XP- $198.88
SL-75DRV-2- $139.88

My K7S5A(rev.5) and 1600XP Have been rock stable since I got it up and running after melting the first one.
In 6 months buy a new board once they drop in price.
Since you're running a celery @ 450, is o/cing the first thing you need to do? Just enjoy.
December 26, 2001 11:06:25 AM

<i>Anyways, heres the thing.......I have EXACTLY $325 Canadian to blow.......The less the better.....</i>

If you have lived with a CeleronA@450 for this long then anything will be a big boost. Why not try a 1Ghz Duron on a KT266A board this will definately fix the multitasking windows (due to the improved memory performance) and will keep you well within budget. Then next Christmas get yourself a cheap Thoroughbred for some major OCing.

<font color=blue> Smoke me a Chip'er ... I'll be back in the Morgan </font color=blue> :eek: 
December 26, 2001 12:03:21 PM

Thanx Mat......thing is I WOULD go that route, you know I would....BUT With the K7S5A Motherboard and the XP1600+ it will run me $367 bux......with Tax anyways.......I don't have that extra few bux so thats Why I said maybe it's better to stick a faster chip in this Board I already have than build a new PC later on based on the Athlon XP.....Have a Radeon 8500 in there, 512 DDR, etc. etc.

Anyways......Thanks also for the advice Kaz......OC'ing is definently going to be done.....First thing ?? well actually, I'm probably find out how far I can go and let the machine still pass the post screen liek right away when I stick it into the MB........ =)

And Phelk......A Duron won't feel like a MAJOR speed boost to me...I know becasue I built a friend a Duron 750 Oc'd to 1GHz system on the A7V133 Motherboard with 256MB of CL2 PC-133 and it was faster than mine by a wide margin....don't get me wrong on that one, BUT once I started mulitasking, with the stuff I do anyways.....It REALLY slowed down, I think that's where the bigger L2 cache comes in handy (Like on T-Bird & PIII), so thats what I want........I want to be able to do Multitasking VERY well.......

And you said I've lived with my 300A @ 450 for this long so you think a Duron will hold me off....trust me when i say no.......the Celery system BARELY holds me off.......I just cant take it anymore......So i gotta get something for it......cheaper the better, and I can build myself a new PC liek I said later on......

-MeTaL RoCkEr

My <font color=red>Z28</font color=red> can take your <font color=blue>P4</font color=blue> off the line!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 26, 2001 1:02:04 PM

How about this combo?

Athlon XP 1500 = 108 USD
Gigabyte GA-7VTXE, KT266A Chipset = 86 USD

I saw these prices on Pricewatch.com

The total makes less than 200 USD. The rest 20 USD, you can spend on shipping and sort'

<font color=blue>Get a T-Bird...
Impressive CPU + House heater in one package. What do you need more?</font color=blue>
December 26, 2001 1:48:31 PM

Thanx for the input Ilker......thing is Onlien Ordering is not a viable option for me right now, seeing how I don't have a CC.....I've always wanted a CC, but I think i'd end up putting myself in debt becasue of it......therefore I need to buy these cards with Cash at a local retailer......Thanx anyways :) 

For now....I think I'll just buy a PIII CPU for my current system, BUT i need to know a few things...

Let's say I got the P3 850 (100MHz FSB) can I OC that to a FSB of 133 ???? or 1130MHz... ????? I dont think so to be honest, but If I could i'd get that...the other thing is, that the P3 850 sells for $239 here, where as I can buy the P3 1GHz (133MHz FSB) for $255 Canadian.......thats like, $16 more and I don't need to OC (these are retail boxes BTW) BUT the thing I want to know, is will the P3 1GHz run on my Slot 1 i440BX AZZA Motherboard.. ???

-MeTaL RoCkEr

My <font color=red>Z28</font color=red> can take your <font color=blue>P4</font color=blue> off the line!
December 26, 2001 4:16:32 PM

save your money and wait until you can buy something decent.

Don't do a jeff! if i would have waited i would have gottin a dell laptop instead of this KDS peice of sh*t!

Just wait save your pennies and get something nice. You deserve it. Or just get a credit card and charge and pay little by little.

good luck

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
December 26, 2001 4:20:56 PM

Metal hes right, dont waste your cash on a dead end upgrade, you should spend your money on a new videocard and use that in your current system or something like that.

At worst, save the money till you have enough to get the whole shebang.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 26, 2001 4:21:16 PM

ya maybe do that instead.

you get get a pentium III 766 (i think) for 120 about. Depends on what your motherboard can support. I'd do that. Sounds like your board still has some life.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
December 26, 2001 4:31:02 PM

at www.mwave.com. American dollars but just take about
% 40 i think it is and do the math.

ABIT KR7A BUNDLE W/ COOLING FAN & (AMD ATHLON XP 1700+; KINGSTON 256MB NON-ECC PC2100; ASSEMBLE/TEST BUNDLE) $358.00 $358.00

INTEL PENTIUM III 1000 MHZ (BX80526C1000256) PC133FSB COPPERMINE FLIP CHIP RETAILED W/COOLING FAN (3 YEARS WARRANTY) Detail Specs $155.00

INTEL PENTIUM III 1133A MHZ (BX80530C1113256) PC133FSB TUALATIN FLIP CHIP RETAILED W/COOLING FAN (3 YEARS WARRANTY) **Single Processing Capability** $197.00

pricing seems a bit high.. hmmm

this is at newegg.com

INTEL PENTIUM III 933MHz 133MHz FSB SOCKET FCPGA CPU PROCESSOR-OEM 256K Cache Fedex Saver Shipping $7.00
- Product Link (limit 5 per customer) $121.00

i'd still wait to be honest.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by xxsk8er101xx on 12/26/01 01:33 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b à CPUs
December 26, 2001 5:43:12 PM

There are TWO versions of the 800-the 800E (100FSB) and 800EB (133FSB). My extreme overclocking stunts have shown me that the 800E will probably do 1066MHz at 133MHz FSB, given enough voltage. These are usually higher quality chips than the 750 (which is a notoriously poor overclocker). If your not afraid of extreme overclocking I think I can help you out. A GOOD quality T-Bird heatsink (rated to at least 1.4GHz) will be required to prevent heat damage, and probably around 2.05v!

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
December 26, 2001 6:23:18 PM

my lord, I really thought you had at LEAST a duron or something-the way you defend AMD, but wow a cel@450? I think your biggest problem is XP have you heard of the latest hole in that thing?

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 26, 2001 8:20:10 PM

Where where where? Where do I get the Dled for the K7S5a? I have one and want to oc. BTW, other than the fact that I can't OC right now, the k7s5a is a great mobo, runs stable and I haven't had any problems.


Aklein

Just me and my computer livin' on the dark side of the moon.
December 26, 2001 11:31:03 PM

THanks Crashman....I have no problem with Overlcocking, I stated that before....You think a Thermaltake Volcanno 6Cu.+ would suffice ?? Other thing is the 850 (100MHz FSB) costs $238 here (Retial) Where I can get the P3 1GHz CPU for $255 (retail).....so for that little price difference I'd rather pick up the 1GHz 133MHz FSB P3 chip......

Oh, Matisaro, about the whoel Shebang.....First off, i'm not a ahrdcore Gamer....I stated that already, I'm mroe application orientated....so 2D Performance is my main thing, and a new Video card won't make a difference in 2D for me......So the thing is, I said before....If I can just pop in the P3 chip in this system...I'd rather do that.....than later on, build a whole totaly different system.......keep my current system for like a File Server and a computer for guests to use when they come over....

-MeTaL RoCkEr

My <font color=red>Z28</font color=red> can take your <font color=blue>P4</font color=blue> off the line!
December 26, 2001 11:38:50 PM

AmdMELTDOWN....I've told you a few times now that I'm running a Celery 300A @ 450......and I defend AMD because I respect a company who brings down costs of stuff for the consumer, aswell as the competition they give to Intel.......I'm not biased towards either compnay, I just don't like the curent version of the P4.....I like P3's, i think it's Intel's best PROVEN chip yet......but yea, I use a Celery 300a @ 450.......i know its old etc. but I havent been able to afford an upgrade.......and everytime i have, i've always gone el-cheapo as I never really have enough money to get what I really want.....Now, I know this is a dead end upgrade path, but like I said, Id rather have this computer upgraded to the maximum it can be, than leave it like that, and build a new system sometime in the future...

as far as XP goes, yes, I have heard about the security holes etc. but I'm not to worried to be honest, if someone hacks me, oh well, I'll reformat and re-install....it doesnt bother me too much.....PLUS im going thorugh a router with a built-in firewall right now.....and besides that, Microsoft already released a Critical Update patch which fixes that issue, And i installed it a few days ago.......anyways.......again, any help is appreciated.....

-MeTaL RoCkEr

My <font color=red>Z28</font color=red> can take your <font color=blue>P4</font color=blue> off the line!
December 27, 2001 12:53:13 AM

The recent security holes are ie holes, not windows xp, however since windows xp ships with ie 6 by default, it will have the hole.

Patches are free.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
a b à CPUs
December 27, 2001 1:17:00 AM

Get whatever seems like the best deal, I though you might be aboe to get an 800E at a bargain, but if not, the smart money is on the 1GHz chip.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
December 27, 2001 2:05:33 AM

Metal,
here's my take on your idea's.
You want to go significantly faster than your Cel-450,
but you think a Duron would hold you back due to cache limitations,
so you're choosing between a P3 @ 933-1000 MHz or an AMD (pally) @ 1.4GHz.

and you are havin troubles choosing a path. hmmm...
Here's my advice.
go straight down the middle. go for a AXP 1400.. or even a Athlon-C @ 1.0 - 1.4 GHz... this way you can get a better MB - KT266A, the Soltek and Epox seem the cream of the crop by loose standards.

so outlay a few bucks there (if you can afford new RAM, if not try a SDRAM board)

pros -
MB should hold you in stead for a while with AMDs style of sticking with a Socket standard. it's much better than flogging your Slot 1 into the ground..
AMd CPUs are cheap, but when you get a bit more, say late next year, you wanna upgrade again.. well you haven't lost that much even if you turf your old processor and buy up big (eg. AXP 5000 hehe)

and the TBird, Pally Athlons all have good cache sizes.. not that I'm convinced cache will hodl you back that much.. I figured it would restrict everything if anything, not just multitasking...

cons-
- you're wasting a good MB, but I suppose you can use your old system in something else.. or sell it without the memory. it's not a TOTAL waste.
- AMDmeltdown won't respect yuo anymore.
- your Intel Inside sticker will be a fraud hehe..


happy spending..

my recc's - Athlon 1.33C (266 FSb), Epox KT3A+ (KT133A plus RAID).

the only problem is that the older Athlons may not be available if Canada is anything like Australia with component availability. it sucks big time here.


I spilled coffee all over my wife's nighty... ...serves me right for wearing it?!?
December 27, 2001 9:26:30 AM

Quote:
AMDmeltdown won't respect yuo anymore.


Thats in the wrong list, should be a pro, not a con.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 27, 2001 12:01:02 PM

Shuttle AK31 Rev 3 w/KT266A = $79 USD
XP 1500+ = $108 USD

Even with a Volcano 6 HSF you should be able to crank up the FSB and run the 1500+ as an 1800+.
December 27, 2001 12:07:37 PM

LoL @ the cons....

I can pick up older T-Bird's still, well 1GHz and above........I CAN get an ECS K7S5A board and the Athlon 1GHz
T-Bird......but than I feel liek Im wastign this system, yes, your right about that....thsi si why i said I wanna pop in a newer/faster CPU into this board...than LATER, build a whoel new system...I know there no upgrade path after with my Slot 1 board, btu thats fine with me, becasue I'm just going to turn this computer into a Net & File Server.....

Don't get me wrong, I liek the idea of getting a Socket A board and a 1GHz T-Bird.....and mayeb OC the hell out of it.....but I want to pop a new chip into this board too, and chuck away the Celery....thatw ay eventally i'll have 2 PC's......AND let aloen the fact if I get the P3 1GHz chip and stick it in here, by them tiem I'm ready to build my new/2nd system, Im quite positive OTHER products will be out on the market, newer faster MB's with faster chipset's...faster ram............Different core processors.....like Northwood & Thoroughbred.....Liek I know Socket A will still be here, so i figure I just upgrade what I gto now, and wiat till i got the cash and build the next PC all at once, witht he latest and greatest (whatever is out than) know what i mean ?!? Yoru input was VERY much appreciated =)

Oh, and Crashman...no, the P3 800/850 are selling near the price of the 1GHz.....infact the 800 (100Mhz FSB FC-PGA) sells for more than the 1GHz P3.......

Mat.....ur a funny guy.....heh heh
And about the free patches...lol...yes i know....all u ahve to do is go <A HREF="http://www.windowsupdate.microsfot.com/" target="_new">Here</A> and you can get them.....I've known this since.......Windows 95.....lol

OH, and balzi...I don't think AmdMELTDOWN ever respected me anyways....he says I defend AMD to much and he thought i had AT LEAST a Duron......but I don't...I've always told him I'm an Intel user........And I must admit, this setup is VERY stable, never crashes......just......SLOW....well, it is now, at one point in time it was one of the best....and abotut he Cache affecting stuff.....yes, it affects everything (except 3D Rendering) which I already knew....I've benchmarked AND used all kidsn of systems, from all sorts of Socket 7 CPU's with 256/512/1024/2048 of MOTHERBAORD L2 cache, to Celeron's, PII's, PIII's, Duron's, Ahlons (Slot A, Socket A), Athlon Xp.....I've used them all, and by far the greater L2 cache helps out a lot in just everyday things.....but Multitaksing which is my main concern, is where L2 Cache is VERY important.....

Try doign this on a Celeron or Duron....

Burning a CD, while listening to an MP3, chatting on ICQ, Surfign web pages and Installing a program like MS Office.....I've done it on a Duron 750 Oc'd to 1GHz....and LEMME TELL YOU..........the typing gets delayed in the message windows.......song will skip occasionally.....trust me, i know, I did it.....
Than I did the exact same thing on my friends T-Bird 800 Oc'd to 1Ghz system, and It did everything flawlessly, admitting it took a little bit for IE to open up, but the MP3 didnt skip, the letters werent delayed from what i was typing in ICQ, and the screen wasnt slowly refreshing itself everytime I got a message on ICQ or when I tryed to switch to a different window........THIS is why I need AT LEAST a P3 or a T-Bird...

-MeTaL RoCkEr

My <font color=red>Z28</font color=red> can take your <font color=blue>P4</font color=blue> off the line!
December 27, 2001 9:23:32 PM

yeah good points.
in that case, I'd go the P3 aswell..
I was suggesting the Tbirds over the AXP cause it seemed people were forgetting they existed when advising you to go Socket A.
and then you were looking at the ECS board.

I think when you do upgrade.. skimp on the CPU before you skimp on the MB.
The MB can see you through I good distance whereas the CPU is likely to get upgraded eventually anyway.
Only reason to upgrade MB is unsupported chips and no BIOS support, OR if QDR RAM comes out with a KT533A chipset or something.. kinda more than a BIOS upgrade to fix that.



I spilled coffee all over my wife's nighty... ...serves me right for wearing it?!?
December 27, 2001 9:44:58 PM

<A HREF="http://www.newegg.com" target="_new">www.newegg.com&lt;/A> check the refurb section(free 2nd day shipping). Im yet to get a bad part from newegg. On your tight budget also check out the Visiontek Xtasy Gefore2 GTS-V for 65 bucks.
December 28, 2001 12:28:00 PM

Thank you FUGGER.........you actualyl gave me some good advice....the only problem is, liek I stated before, I have to pay with cash :(  Thanks anyways though =)

-MeTaL RoCkEr

My <font color=red>Z28</font color=red> can take your <font color=blue>P4</font color=blue> off the line!
!