Palm Rants

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In article <d34nk7$1nvu$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>, Roy Schestowitz
<newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:

> I am a loyal Palm user, but some things I just cannot understand.

What model are you using and what version of the Palm OS? What writing
apps are you talking about?

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On 2005-04-08, Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
> I am a loyal Palm user, but some things I just cannot understand.

Wow, at least you can find a Palm you like. I had to go buy a used one to
replace my old Palm. I'm not saying those aren't problems. But I wish the
most of my Palm problems had to do with actually operating the device. I
couldn't find a device with a terrible-looking screen or a screen that
made an annoying sound (save the Tapwave Zodiac), so I had to buy an old
used Palm.

Preston

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

I love my Palm. I think is one of the most useful devices I've ever
owned. I keep everything in it, way beyond the basic capabilities.
Outlines of everything, shopping lists of all kinds, games galore, a
dictionary, etc. But I also agree with Roy concerning why PalmOne seems
not the least bit interested in gradual improvement. Certainly they
don't want to make the base appt book as complex as DateBk5 (my all
time favorite Palm app), but they could easily add a few of the key
features that make DateBk5 so useful. Like being able to tap on the S
for Saturday when it's already active to move to Sunday, without having
to advance a week and then to back to Sat.

>From what I read, mostly here in this NG, occasionally elsewhere, they
just haven't taken any iniative at all in improving the basic
functions. They're far more interesting in putting in all the new bells
and whistles like WiFi and color and cruise control. While I'm sure
these gadgets are attractive to many of their users, I think that there
are enough hard core Palm addicts out there, like myself, who would
respond well to some basic improvements along with all the hi-tech
stuff. It seems to parallel their apparent lack of interest in really
good customer service. From what I've seen in here, as long as
everything goes according to plan, service is pretty good. As soon as
there is an exception, they're utterly and completely lost. Anyone who
knows anything about customer service knows that there are 2 major
components to success. One is a good basic process, which they seem to
have, and the second is great exception handling, which they obviously
don't have.
Like a lot of businesses these days, they've apparently forgotten that
there are 2 sides to the market share equation. To increase market
share, you not only have to get new customers, you also have to keep
the ones you already have! (I know this may be startling information to
the long distance business, as well as many others). I don't see much
evidence that PalmOne understands the second part. I welcome any
contrary opinions.

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Guy Bannis wrote:

> In article <d34nk7$1nvu$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>, Roy Schestowitz
> <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>
>> I am a loyal Palm user, but some things I just cannot understand.
>
> What model are you using and what version of the Palm OS?

Tungsten T with OS5.

> What writing apps are you talking about?

The built-in apps such as Memopad and Tasks. Third-party software solves
some issues, but it's not a real solution. I am surprised that some flaws
remained ever since I got my M130. The clipboard one is by far the most
annoying and I am not the only one who complains.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com

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Preston Crawford wrote:

> On 2005-04-08, Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>> I am a loyal Palm user, but some things I just cannot understand.
>
> Wow, at least you can find a Palm you like. I had to go buy a used one to
> replace my old Palm.

I'm sorry if it somehow sounded like Palm slagging. I am a big advocate, but
I also want developers at PalmOne to listen more often to what users say.

None of what I said is new. People keep complaining, but no fixes are
incorporated to newer models. Instead, bad decisions are made due to
isolated opinions, e.g. no vibrating alarm, USB instead of universal
connector and the list goes on and on...

> I'm not saying those aren't problems. But I wish the
> most of my Palm problems had to do with actually operating the device. I
> couldn't find a device with a terrible-looking screen or a screen that
> made an annoying sound (save the Tapwave Zodiac), so I had to buy an old
> used Palm.

That's true. Mechanically, Palms are built with good components. I just
think that software stays behind, all in the name of simplicity.

> Preston

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On 2005-04-08, Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
> I am a loyal Palm user, but some things I just cannot understand.
>
> 1. Undo - am I the only person who erased more than a single character or
> word and then changed his mind? Why is there no undo stack? Why can I only
> backtrack one step? If I mistakenly erase an entire paragraph and then
> input a stroke, that's it... I lost the paragraph for good.
>
> 2. Clipboard - when will PalmOne realise that people copy more than several
> lines of text? Even a small memo (see next point) cannot be copied to the
> clipboard. The internal memory is definitely large enough for the clipboard
> to be extended (_without_ add-ons).
>
> 3. Memopad - the only reason I find for using Docs2Go is the limit on
> memopad size. If the models advance, why is that limit not being modified?
> Is it neglect?

The same problems are on the m105 and the T|E. When I upgraded, I was
shocked to find that they hadn't fixed them! Pretty fundamental stuff, I
would have thought...

--
Toby.
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
field to circumvent my email filters.
Ignore any mail delivery error.

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In article <d34nk7$1nvu$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
> I am a loyal Palm user, but some things I just cannot understand.

The first Palm had 128K (yes 1/8 of a MB) of RAM. Most of the design
decisions you don't like trace directly to that limitation.

I agree that things could have - and should have - been designed to
grow into new functionality more gracefully. But getting something useful
*at all* in that amount of RAM is a minor miracle of its own. :->

> 1. Undo
> 2. Clipboard
> 3. Memopad

There are hacks and third-party apps that implement all of the features
you want. Now, should Palm have incorporated this stuff themselves?
Sure. Should they have designed things so that they could grow without
painful compromize? Absolutley.

But they did get a lot of things very right, and I still prefer my
Palm to any other handheld I've run across.

--
Sincerely,

Ray Ingles (313) 227-2317

"History never repeats itself, but it often rhymes."
- Mark Twain

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On 2005-04-08, Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
> Preston Crawford wrote:
>
>> On 2005-04-08, Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>>> I am a loyal Palm user, but some things I just cannot understand.
>>
>> Wow, at least you can find a Palm you like. I had to go buy a used one to
>> replace my old Palm.
>
> I'm sorry if it somehow sounded like Palm slagging. I am a big advocate, but
> I also want developers at PalmOne to listen more often to what users say.
>
> None of what I said is new. People keep complaining, but no fixes are
> incorporated to newer models. Instead, bad decisions are made due to
> isolated opinions, e.g. no vibrating alarm, USB instead of universal
> connector and the list goes on and on...
>
>> I'm not saying those aren't problems. But I wish the
>> most of my Palm problems had to do with actually operating the device. I
>> couldn't find a device with a terrible-looking screen or a screen that
>> made an annoying sound (save the Tapwave Zodiac), so I had to buy an old
>> used Palm.
>
> That's true. Mechanically, Palms are built with good components. I just
> think that software stays behind, all in the name of simplicity.
>
>> Preston

I meant "without" actually. Typo. Every device on the market right now is
garbage, save the Treos and the Tungsten C, IMHO.

Preston

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Hello, Preston Crawford !
You wrote:

> I meant "without" actually. Typo. Every device on the market
right now is
> garbage, save the Treos and the Tungsten C, IMHO.
>
That's quite a blanket statement. Quite a few think that the TC
with its mono sound and the Treos with their various and sundry
bugs are also garbage. But it all depends on how you use them.
For me, the Tungsten E is a brilliant combination of size, price
and functionality. So what if it's a little slow? Similarly, I
have a hard time imagining how I'd get along without my Treo 600.
Every device has its bugs, but I've found that on most PalmOS
devices the bugs are pretty easy to work around.
--
"It's a long story. And it ends with me on the roof of a
goddamned nuthouse on Route 128 doing a one-man tribute to the
Three Stooges."
-- Art in "Eastern Standard Tribe"

Roberto Castillo
robertocastillo@ameritech.net

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Toby wrote:
> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>> I am a loyal Palm user, but some things I just cannot understand.
>>
>> 1. Undo - am I the only person who erased more than a single
>> character or word and then changed his mind? [...]
>>
>> 2. Clipboard - when will PalmOne realise that people copy more than
>> several lines of text? Even a small memo (see next point) cannot be
>> copied to the clipboard. The internal memory is definitely large
>> enough for the clipboard to be extended (_without_ add-ons).
>>
>> 3. Memopad - the only reason I find for using Docs2Go is the limit on
>> memopad size. If the models advance, why is that limit not being
>> modified? Is it neglect?
>
> The same problems are on the m105 and the T|E. When I upgraded, I was
> shocked to find that they hadn't fixed them! Pretty fundamental
> stuff, I would have thought...


.... the same on a HandEra 330 (all available OSs to 4.1) - despite the fact
that HandEra made Memopad QVGA-sized, landscape-usable and aware of the 8
system fonts.
As HandEra didn't hesitate to add network capabilities to the built-in Palm
mail application I think they would have fixed these silly outdated
clipboard and memo limits too - if it were easy (or allowed?).

And the same problems apply to OS5 also? Sure?
Oh my g...

But then, OS5 is an outdated version. It's lame stupid to stick to old stuff
and whine about old problems. Just use one of the current OS6-PDAs if you
can't stand minor non-relevant issues of the older and still excellent
devices.
[That's somewhere near the usual answer of one type of Palm advocate I
always enjoy. ;-)]


Gruß
Uwe

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In article <42568bc9$0$305$4d4ebb8e@read.news.de.uu.net>, U. Lippke wrote:

> As HandEra didn't hesitate to add network capabilities to the built-in Palm
> mail application I think they would have fixed these silly outdated
> clipboard and memo limits too - if it were easy (or allowed?).

The problem is that, on the original 128KB Palms, memos were limited to 4K,
(for both size and fragmentation reasons) and the Hotsync protocol knows that.
To maintain compatibility with all the existing installations and third-party
syncs and so forth, they've kept that limitation. They didn't want people
trying to share nonstandard memos and causing all kinds of havoc.

Including a version number somewhere in a header might have avoided all
the pain, but they didn't think to do that at the start. I remember seeing
a page somewhere that told you how to hack the Memo executable to use
larger memos, but it broke syncing and got pretty slow when editing big
memos.

I agree that, even if they were stuck with the data file formats they'd
started with, they could have worked harder on adding features to the
built-in apps...

--
Sincerely,

Ray Ingles (313) 227-2317

"The growing and dangerous intrusion of this new technology [threatens
our] economic vitality and future security. [It] is to the American
film producer... as the Boston Strangler is to the woman alone."
- Jack Valenti, in 1982, regarding the advent of the VCR.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:

>Mechanically, Palms are built with good components.

Good mechanical components?

My IIIxe has poorly designed mechanical connectors that have to be reseated
periodically to keep the screen going.

*All* of my m100 series Palms (the m100,two m105s,and two m125s) have a
defective backup capacitor. Definitely not a "good" component".

My Zire71 has to be rocked in the cradle and the screen icon checked to make
sure it is charging because of the lousy mechanical design of the Universal
Connector.

My TungE has a defective down button that is hard to push. (That was a well
reported mechanical component problem in the early TE units.) Then there is the
poor silver finish of the case which is extremely scratch prone. This was
supposed to be a business model but after a year or so of pocket carrying I
would be ashamed to show it's damaged hide in any boardroom.

And speaking of case problems the blue paint on my and virtually all other
Zire72 models is flaking off.

And that is just some of *my* experience. If you read these groups for any
length of time you will see many common *component based* complaints from
malfunctioning slides, to the early wear out of digitizers and on-off buttons.
Need I mention the whine about screen whine?

*IMO* (and personal experience) the biggest problems bugging users of the Palm
PDA line has not been it's software.

Get it?...bugging...software...oh never mind...  

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In article <d35d1k$2tiv$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>, Roy Schestowitz
<newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:

> Guy Bannis wrote:
>
> > In article <d34nk7$1nvu$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>, Roy Schestowitz
> > <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I am a loyal Palm user, but some things I just cannot understand.
> >
> > What model are you using and what version of the Palm OS?
>
> Tungsten T with OS5.
>
> > What writing apps are you talking about?
>
> The built-in apps such as Memopad and Tasks. Third-party software solves
> some issues, but it's not a real solution. I am surprised that some flaws
> remained ever since I got my M130. The clipboard one is by far the most
> annoying and I am not the only one who complains.

The limits you mentioned are lifted in my Tungsten E and at least one
other model. They're all lifted in Palm OS Cobalt.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Ray Ingles wrote:
> [...]
> There are hacks and third-party apps that implement all of the
> features you want. ...

The clipboard hacks I tried years ago affected the stability of my PDA. I
chose the latter.

> But they did get a lot of things very right, and I still prefer my
> Palm to any other handheld I've run across.

I too prefer my PalmOS handheld (without trying others).
Seems, we are part of the problem. ;-)


Gruß
Uwe

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Ray Ingles wrote:
> U. Lippke wrote:
>
>> As HandEra didn't hesitate to add network capabilities to the
>> built-in Palm mail application I think they would have fixed these
>> silly outdated clipboard and memo limits too - if it were easy (or
>> allowed?).
>
> The problem is that, on the original 128KB Palms, memos were limited
> to 4K, (for both size and fragmentation reasons) and the Hotsync
> protocol knows that. To maintain compatibility with all the existing
> installations and third-party syncs and so forth, they've kept that
> limitation.
> [...]
> I agree that, even if they were stuck with the data file formats
> they'd started with, they could have worked harder on adding features
> to the built-in apps...

Thanks for this history channel info :-)

Myself, I'm more or less in peace with the said limits.
I am quite sure one will find the like always and everywhere.
The day a new hardware gives me an appetite I will trade the old fashioned
limits for newer or more sophisticated ones. I hope to see it happen with a
nice running PalmOS.

What annoyes me is: What took/takes them so long to act?
No, I don't seek an answer, I already compiled one for me ;-)
It fits to the long defended and /completely sufficient/ 160x160 square
screen.


Gruß
Uwe

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Here in comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,
AaronJ <noemail@noemail.com> spake unto us, saying:

>*All* of my m100 series Palms (the m100,two m105s,and two m125s) have a
>defective backup capacitor. Definitely not a "good" component".

That seems to be a common occurrence. My m105 has that problem, but my
wife's does not, and our m100 also does not. Yet.

--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Smyrna, GA USA
OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

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On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 22:51:48 +0200, "U. Lippke" <shorttext@gmx.net>
wrote:

>Ray Ingles wrote:
>> [...]
>> There are hacks and third-party apps that implement all of the
>> features you want. ...
>
>The clipboard hacks I tried years ago affected the stability of my PDA. I
>chose the latter.
>
>> But they did get a lot of things very right, and I still prefer my
>> Palm to any other handheld I've run across.
>
>I too prefer my PalmOS handheld (without trying others).
>Seems, we are part of the problem. ;-)
>
>
>Gruß
>Uwe
>
I've tried others and came back to Palm. I feel the OS for Palm is
more stable. I prefer the 505 that my wife is still using with no
problems over the iPaq I bouoght (just sits on the desk now, not
used). I tried the iPaq for about 6 months, then went abd bought a T5,
and prefer it by far.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

NASCAR20 wrote:

> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 22:51:48 +0200, "U. Lippke" <shorttext@gmx.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Ray Ingles wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> There are hacks and third-party apps that implement all of the
>>> features you want. ...
>>
>>The clipboard hacks I tried years ago affected the stability of my PDA. I
>>chose the latter.
>>
>>> But they did get a lot of things very right, and I still prefer my
>>> Palm to any other handheld I've run across.
>>
>>I too prefer my PalmOS handheld (without trying others).
>>Seems, we are part of the problem. ;-)
>>
>>
>>Gruß
>>Uwe
>>
> I've tried others and came back to Palm. I feel the OS for Palm is
> more stable. I prefer the 505 that my wife is still using with no
> problems over the iPaq I bouoght (just sits on the desk now, not
> used). I tried the iPaq for about 6 months, then went abd bought a T5,
> and prefer it by far.

Some might say that it depends what you use your PDA for. If, for example,
what you are interested in is games, videos and a Windows environment, then
WinCE might be okay.

When you want to handle data reliably and quickly, nothing beats the Palm. I
might as well add that the new models offer nothing more, in purely
practical terms, than the M500 series.

It all depends, of course. Some people have patience to write E-mails using
Graffiti or browsing the net on a 320x480 display.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

NASCAR20 wrote:

> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 22:51:48 +0200, "U. Lippke" <shorttext@gmx.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Ray Ingles wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> There are hacks and third-party apps that implement all of the
>>> features you want. ...
>>
>>The clipboard hacks I tried years ago affected the stability of my PDA. I
>>chose the latter.
>>
>>> But they did get a lot of things very right, and I still prefer my
>>> Palm to any other handheld I've run across.
>>
>>I too prefer my PalmOS handheld (without trying others).
>>Seems, we are part of the problem. ;-)
>>
>>
>>Gruß
>>Uwe
>>
> I've tried others and came back to Palm. I feel the OS for Palm is
> more stable. I prefer the 505 that my wife is still using with no
> problems over the iPaq I bouoght (just sits on the desk now, not
> used). I tried the iPaq for about 6 months, then went abd bought a T5,
> and prefer it by far.

Some might say that it depends what you use your PDA for. If, for example,
what you are interested in is games, videos and a Windows environment, then
WinCE might be okay.

When you want to handle data reliably and quickly, nothing beats the Palm. I
might as well add that the new models offer nothing more, in purely
practical terms, than the M500 series.

It all depends, of course. Some people have patience to write E-mails using
Graffiti or browsing the net on a 320x480 display.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

NASCAR20 wrote:

> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 22:51:48 +0200, "U. Lippke" <shorttext@gmx.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Ray Ingles wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> There are hacks and third-party apps that implement all of the
>>> features you want. ...
>>
>>The clipboard hacks I tried years ago affected the stability of my PDA. I
>>chose the latter.
>>
>>> But they did get a lot of things very right, and I still prefer my
>>> Palm to any other handheld I've run across.
>>
>>I too prefer my PalmOS handheld (without trying others).
>>Seems, we are part of the problem. ;-)
>>
>>
>>Gruß
>>Uwe
>>
> I've tried others and came back to Palm. I feel the OS for Palm is
> more stable. I prefer the 505 that my wife is still using with no
> problems over the iPaq I bouoght (just sits on the desk now, not
> used). I tried the iPaq for about 6 months, then went abd bought a T5,
> and prefer it by far.

Some might say that it depends what you use your PDA for. If, for example,
what you are interested in is games, videos and a Windows environment, then
WinCE might be okay.

When you want to handle data reliably and quickly, nothing beats the Palm. I
might as well add that the new models offer nothing more, in purely
practical terms, than the M500 series.

It all depends, of course. Some people have patience to write E-mails using
Graffiti or browsing the net on a 320x480 display.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com