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P4 2.2 @ 3Ghz

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January 2, 2002 9:33:12 PM

http://www.amddiyoc.com/adol/3g/3000GHZ.htm
They were playing with the multiplier though so I guess no one could buy these.

More about : 3ghz

January 2, 2002 10:02:31 PM

i believe a while back at a computer convention they clocked a p4 all the way up to 3.5ghz. so overclocking this badboy all the way upto 3ghz isn't anything new but the benchmarks are nice. even though i'd expect double the 1800+ results in all of these test since the clock is almost doubled, i still rather get more bang for mi buck!
January 2, 2002 10:03:21 PM

Quote:
<A HREF="http://www.amddiyoc.com/adol/3g/3000GHZ.htm" target="_new">http://www.amddiyoc.com/adol/3g/3000GHZ.htm&lt;/A>
They were playing with the multiplier though so I guess no one could buy these.

Running a 2.2GHz processor at 3GHz is approximately a 36.4% overclock. An overclock up to a 533MHz System Bus, using a 133MHz external clock, would be a 33.3% overclock. If a 36.4% overclock is possible, so is 33.3%. The latter would also allow your buses to remain within specifications and allow a possible PC1066 memory overclock if you chose to attempt it.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
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January 2, 2002 10:57:06 PM

When you say PC1066 I assume your talking RDRAM. So do you think that should give better results then these DDR benches show?
January 2, 2002 11:46:51 PM

DDR SDRAM solutions are targetted for the lower price points. RDRAM solutions are targetted for the performance price points. Thusfar no DDR solution has been able to achieve the memory bandwidth provided by PC800 RDRAM. The move to PC1066 RDRAM will come soon (right now for those of you wishing to attempt an overclock), at which point the performance gap will only widen.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 3, 2002 12:40:56 AM

I doubt it since PC2700 will be available on the DDR side.

I AM Canadian
January 3, 2002 12:58:24 AM

PC2700 DDR SDRAM only offers 2.7GB/s of memory bandwidth. The i850's PC800 RDRAM solution offers 3.2GB/s of memory bandwidth to fully use the 3.2GB/s System Bus (FSB) bandwidth on the Pentium 4. The RDRAM solution offers over 18.5% more memory bandwidth at those speeds.

PC1066 RDRAM offers 4.2GB/s of memory bandwidth and less latency than DDR SDRAM. It is here now for those who overclock and will be officially released within a few months. I do not foresee PC4200 DDR SDRAM any time in the near future. The gap between DDR SDRAM and RDRAM is just going to keep increasing.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 3, 2002 1:00:00 AM

Thanks for your insight. I know I will update my PIII system later this year. The tough part is how long to wait.

Edit note: The link I gave is of a PC2700 DDR machine although it is heavily overclocked, so it's out now but the PC1066 RDRAM isn't.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by aarona on 01/02/02 10:12 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 3, 2002 1:03:07 AM

You are welcome. There will always be something else "right around the corner" in the technology field. If you wait forever you will never have anything. :) 

There will be a great number of new reviews, benchmarks, etc. this month. Take a look at these and give thought to making a purchase when you feel you need it rather than waiting for the "next best thing."

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 3, 2002 6:03:58 AM

I don't know if you guys noticed this, but in thae WCPUID picture on the website, it says 'L2 Cache: 512k L2 Speed: Full'.

That means Northwood, if I'm not mistaken.

Also, I've got a ~30% overclock on my computer with a stock heatsink (no fan). Granted, I've got a P166MMX (@ 233), but it's okay, it was the last Intel I owned :) .

Just some info for you guys...
January 3, 2002 11:08:59 AM

Prove it ray, I want to see some links saying that pc1066 has lower latency than ddrram.



"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 3, 2002 1:15:38 PM

Its funny how Raystonn talks about RAMBUS superior bandwidth...but never mentions that the P4 can never fully utilize the bandwidth because its spends so much time spinning its wheels with branch prediction misses.
Anonymous
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January 3, 2002 2:10:13 PM

<A HREF="http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2001q4/p4-chipsets/i..." target="_new">The Tech Report</A>'s P4 DDR chipset comparison would be a good place to look. Their latency test placed RDRAM last after all the (SDR and DDR) SDRAM chipsets. And in the other benchmarks, RDRAM almost always was not the fastest chipset... the VIA and SiS DDR solutions usually alternated as fastest.
January 3, 2002 2:57:24 PM

The link you provided does not show latency for PC1066.



/Copenhagen - P4 Willamette 1700MHz@2109 MHz, Vcore 1.75V@2.20V on Abit TH7II-RAID.
January 3, 2002 3:36:50 PM

This pretty much shows the overclocking potential in the Northwood core combined with highly efficient, yes, but still conventional air cooling (Swiftech MCX-462 for Socket478 w/Delta FFB0812EHE Fan). This will take an affordable P4 2.0GHz Northwood to 2.67 GHz / 533MHz RDRAM system bus, if the FSB is bumped to 133Mhz. With a good overclockers board like the Abit TH7-II, this should be within reach.

Will most likely be enough to outgun an Athlon XP2000+ overclocked to the edge, corresponding to XP2200+ rating, in most applications, and at a lower price.


/Copenhagen - P4 Willamette 1700MHz@2109 MHz, Vcore 1.75V@2.20V on Abit TH7II-RAID.
January 3, 2002 8:49:36 PM

The picture is getting clearer. I have a question on the memory though. Will the future release of PC1066 have any advantage over the current PC800 overclocked to 533mhz?
January 3, 2002 9:35:15 PM

Quote:
The picture is getting clearer. I have a question on the memory though. Will the future release of PC1066 have any advantage over the current PC800 overclocked to 533mhz?

If you overclock Samsung PC800 RDRAM to PC1066 then it will functioning exactly the same as it would in the future release (with the sole exception that the future release would obviously be under warranty.)

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 4, 2002 12:54:26 AM

Well it seems that Northwood and PC1066 are gonna put Intel is the clear lead.. it may not be debatable who is winning anymore.. People will have to admit Intel is winning... it's gonna be weird.. I simplified marketplace (for a time) where you actually get-what-you-pay-for...

wanna cop a outlandish premium for massive benchmark scores and FPS- go Intel..
satisfied with cheaper solutions (that easily cope in real world) - go AMD..

I spilled coffee all over my wife's nighty... ...serves me right for wearing it?!?
January 4, 2002 2:25:07 AM

Where is the missing FPU?

It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!
January 4, 2002 2:50:44 AM

I have some question if you are welling to help me.

Does intel will do slower model of NW like a 1.8A.
Does intel want to disband P3 to only produce P3-S.
Does you have able to try PC 1066 and overclocking it and how much you able to hit.



http://gamershq.madonion.com/products/orb/?publish_comp...
January 4, 2002 3:16:55 AM

i don't have answers but my predictions.
1- (1.8A NW) - doubt it.. they'd have to sell to cheap to get buyers.
2- P3 vx. P3-S - I don't think they want to produce any P3s anymore.. that's why Tualatin's have such mammoth prices attached.
3- Raystonn can ahve what ever he wants I expect.. and I guess he's hit 2.8GHz (this is a pure unadulterated guess)

happy answer finding.

I spilled coffee all over my wife's nighty... ...serves me right for wearing it?!?
January 4, 2002 8:09:04 AM

Waiting for latency proof links rayy,last I heard rdrams latency is piss poor, and the benifit it garners from higher clock speeds is in no way enough to counter the low latencies of ddr.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 4, 2002 3:12:02 PM

Hey Mat PC3000 DDR just came out at my local shop, just wanted to let you know on the DDR-RDRAM war here. It runs at 366MHZ. I am hoping to see new mobos supporting it, including AMD directing their path to this new DDR, which is so damn affordable, that it costs only 149$ CDN, about 30$ more than PC2100!!
However the jumps that RDRAM does in its new speeds are big, so I dunno if that new DDR will still be enough. In any case, once they do QDR that'll be different.
As to Juin, yes NW will be the fastest, and it was anyway since day one, but not the most performant! May I direct you to that french link to a site that benchmarked a 1.5GHZ NW underclocked, against a 1.5GHZ Willamette and an AXP 1700-1800 (they cannot put 1.5GHZ due to multiplier) and see how the AXP tramples both CPUs hands-down, so enjoy your current victory, as AMD will come back soon!

BTW I still think Intel coulda done something to compensate for this low IPC of its P4. Sure a longer pipeline may do that, but look at the Hammer's speccs and see how with even a longer pipeline, AMD was smart enough to work on it and actually drastically increase IPC!
IMO AMD is working harder than Intel on this one guys. I have my money placed on the Desktop Hammer rather than any P4 in the next years.

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
January 4, 2002 3:12:20 PM

But that's an engineering sample (and most likely an early one), so that's not indicative of what Intel will release on the market.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 4, 2002 3:36:54 PM

I forgot to add also, that imagine the prices!
Right now a 256 RDRAM chip is still rather expensive, but think of the PC1066! I have a feeling some of us will be using 128MB chips instead.... And here's hoping they get mobos that won't cost too much for that kind of RAM!
All I am seeing here, is a huge waste of money that half of it could've gone for a similar AXP system that runs better, yet some people just don't seem to get it...

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
January 4, 2002 7:09:21 PM

Quote:
Waiting for latency proof links rayy,last I heard rdrams latency is piss poor, and the benifit it garners from higher clock speeds is in no way enough to counter the low latencies of ddr.

I had a nice reply posted on this subject yesterday. It mysteriously disappeared along with a few other posts. I do not have time (nor the motivation really) at the moment to retype the whole thing again. Needless to say, the boost from PC800 to PC1066 will offer 25% less latency. Take a look at a few links comparing latency figures between PC800 RDRAM and DDR SDRAM. Now multiply the PC800 figure by 0.75 and you have the approximate latency figures for PC1066. While these are not hard measurements, these are the best that can be done at the moment because no review sites have done any testing on PC1066 systems for some reason. Feel free to do benchmarking yourself if you should get such a system. The measurements of 25% less latency fits with the results I get on my own tests.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 4, 2002 7:15:22 PM

Quote:
I forgot to add also, that imagine the prices!
Right now a 256 RDRAM chip is still rather expensive, but think of the PC1066!

Current batches of Samsung PC800 all work fine at PC1066. There is no extra cost.


Quote:
And here's hoping they get mobos that won't cost too much for that kind of RAM!

Current motherboards work fine at a 533MHz FSB. Minimal changes are needed (the changing of a pair of $2 DRCGs) to upgrade all i850 motherboards to support PC1066.


Quote:
All I am seeing here, is a huge waste of money that half of it could've gone for a similar AXP system that runs better, yet some people just don't seem to get it...

There is no waste of money. No AMD system will run better than a Northwood Pentium 4 2.2GHz running with 4.2GB/s of memory bandwidth at PC1066.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 4, 2002 7:43:50 PM

Quote:
There is no waste of money. No AMD system will run better than a Northwood Pentium 4 2.2GHz running with 4.2GB/s of memory bandwidth at PC1066.

Now thats a rather bold statement! Are you suggesting a clean sweep of all the benchmarks? Remember The SIS 745 chipset is arriving this month with fsb support of 166 (333 DDR)along with ddr 333. I think an XP 2000 running with a fsb of 166 might suprise you, expecially on any thing fpu intensive, seeing how the northwood never took full advantage of the die shrink and added back the FPU that they casterated out of it when they changed from the p3.

It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!
January 4, 2002 8:05:39 PM

The clock generators are only $2? Where do you buy these? And how hard are they to solder on?

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 4, 2002 8:16:33 PM

Quote:
Now thats a rather bold statement! Are you suggesting a clean sweep of all the benchmarks? Remember The SIS 745 chipset is arriving this month with fsb support of 166 (333 DDR)along with ddr 333. I think an XP 2000 running with a fsb of 166 might suprise you, expecially on any thing fpu intensive, seeing how the northwood never took full advantage of the die shrink and added back the FPU that they casterated out of it when they changed from the p3.

I am suggesting a clean sweep of 'most' benchmarks, leaving it the best performer overall. Rarely does everyone win them all, but it could happen. I am also talking about based on what will be out at the time. Future products will only continue to get better and better. You cannot continue beating them all indefinately.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 4, 2002 8:20:14 PM

Quote:
The clock generators are only $2? Where do you buy these? And how hard are they to solder on?

You can actually get them for free by requesting a couple samples. Read <A HREF="http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=228..." target="_new">this thread</A> for details.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 4, 2002 8:59:05 PM

Hmm...have to be a member of TI&ME. Thanks for the links, lots of reading to do on this.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 4, 2002 9:06:58 PM

Membership is not required to request samples...

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 4, 2002 9:41:20 PM

I clicked on the link and it gave me a login page, did I miss something?

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 4, 2002 9:42:29 PM

Well of course if you put it that way!
I never said it's not gonna beat it, but at this point it obviously should, but damn it, it doesn't surprise me at all. At such MHZ, and such price, I think I'm well worth waiting for an AXP 2000 or further, or simply wait to see the mysterious Thoroughbred. From then on, it is more than sure AMD is back up, as in any case a Northwood is not clock per clock better. For now Intel may be enjoying this, but we never know how the tide will turn.

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
January 4, 2002 9:47:28 PM

The link in my post gave you a login page? If so go ahead and create an account. It takes you to the forums for [H]ard|OCP.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 4, 2002 9:55:54 PM

No, sorry. Need to explain better. I clicked on the link in that thread (to TI's page), then clicked "Request Samples". THAT link took me to a login page. Sorry, I skipped a couple of steps.

I've got almost 1000 posts at HardOCP, I don't think I need to create an account :wink:

EDIT:
Found the link to create an account at TI, did that. Now I'm getting a "Cannot Find Server" error. I'll try again next week.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by FatBurger on 01/04/02 04:04 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 4, 2002 9:58:44 PM

Ah yes. You must create an account there. I believe they are free.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 4, 2002 10:49:47 PM

Also factory reps can usually get free samples. Depending on your circumstances it might be easier to go through one of them, since they most likely have already developed the business relationships etc. Plus normally a rep would be well versed in all the red tape necessary. I've found that the manufacturers want to sell me like 10million parts or something and get all disapointed when I tell them I want samples.

Patricia at FAI in Canada is my gal. She can get me practically anything for free. Plus she sends me Xmas cards, and gave me a free coffee mug.
January 5, 2002 7:41:48 AM

Quote:
There is no waste of money. No AMD system will run better than a Northwood Pentium 4 2.2GHz running with 4.2GB/s of memory bandwidth at PC1066.

-Raystonn



Thats a damn strong statement rayy, and I dont believe you, when the northwood is out, perhaps you can prove it.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 5, 2002 7:42:40 AM

Quote:
There is no waste of money. No AMD system will run better than a Northwood Pentium 4 2.2GHz running with 4.2GB/s of memory bandwidth at PC1066.

-Raystonn



Because, you take the cost of that system, and I can build you a dual system which will out perform it, there is no way a northwood system will out perform an amd system dollar for dollar.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 5, 2002 7:38:04 PM

Quote:
Because, you take the cost of that system, and I can build you a dual system which will out perform it, there is no way a northwood system will out perform an amd system dollar for dollar.

And there is the 'strong statement' from you. You should note that a dual-processor system will not help you in most games and common applications.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 5, 2002 9:31:43 PM

If you take the cost of a p4 northwood 2.2ghz and the mobo and rdram, I can then take that cost, and the money I save by buying top end amd components to buy whatever component which will eek out enough performance to override the northwoods cpu advantage.


Dual cpus was just one example, a nice higher grade videocard, raid, scsi, more ram, any number of improvements.

The cost associated with intels top end, is too much to justify the small performance benifit it garners, my statement was indeed bold, but true.

Unlike yours, which can be shot up easily.


FACT: a 2.2ghz northwood is more expensive than a top end athlon. Probably by greater than 200 bucks.(that is a guess however) regardless, the 200 I save by getting amd can be used to buy another component, to NEGATE, the speed advantage of the northwood.

The ONLY comparision which truely matters, is performance/dollar....and not in just the cpu, the whole system must be looked at. And the extremely high prohibative cost of intel cpus cause its over system value to suffer.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 5, 2002 9:38:35 PM

You are discussing performance of the system in different areas now. Upgrading your video card and RAM will not help you churn out Seti@Home or pump prime numbers any faster. Likewise, there is no need to get the top of the line processor when all you do is play games. A better video card would offer better performance with the 2GHz Northwood. You seem to be assuming that I want everyone to buy the top of the line (2.2GHz) processor. That is not the case. Everyone has different needs. The 2GHz Northwood will compete very well on a price/performance ratio, especially if you plan on overclocking.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 5, 2002 9:51:37 PM

And no matter WHAT northwood you use, the amd system will have similar performance for less money, unless intel plans on slashing prices more than it ever has.

The point remains the same regardless of what you design your system for, the money saved getting an amd chip can be put towards other more vital components for making a BETTER system all around.

Quote:
The 2GHz Northwood will compete very well on a price/performance ratio


LoL, 350 when equal performance can be had for 200? come on, what kind of price versus performance ratio is that. Intels main mistake is pricing cpus as if they are ONLY competing against themselves. The celly is priced more than a duron which stomps it, why is that?

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 5, 2002 10:26:51 PM

Quote:
LoL, 350 when equal performance can be had for 200?

You are claiming a retail 1.53GHz Athlon (XP 1800) has more performance than a retail 2GHz Northwood Pentium 4? That simply is not the case. A top of the line Athlon 1.67GHz (XP 2000) will be required to get near it. You do not believe me? Then just wait. The simple fact that you can overclock the 2GHz Northwood Pentium 4 easily to 2.67GHz due to the copper 0.13 micron components makes it that much more of a performer for the enthusiast crowd. Can a similarly priced top of the line Athlon give this much performance? Not any time soon.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 6, 2002 12:11:11 AM

Raystonn, AFAIK, the only enhancements in the Northwood are a die shrink and 512KB cache. Extra cache tends to improve nothing but ALU performance in business apps. Games and FPU-intensive apps will hardly be affected. So in apps where the most performance is needed, the Athlon XP will still be in the lead. You need ~3GHz P4 to match the FPU performance of a 1.2GHz Athlon.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
January 6, 2002 12:28:24 AM

Quote:
"You need ~3GHz P4 to match the FPU performance of a 1.2GHz Athlon."

Could you post a 1.2 Athlon FPU bench so we can compare it to the 3.0Ghz PIV at the beginning of this thread?
!