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Advice for processors

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January 3, 2002 1:02:28 AM

I am currently starting my first home built system. I've chosen a mobo that suits my needs and would appreciate any input on what else to include/exclude. As far as a cpu I'm still undecided and i have some time to consider options.

Giga Byte GA 7DXR+
CPU= ?
Memory= DDR (type dependant on cpu fsb)
HD= seagate 7200rpm 30 gig (model not chosen yet)
Vid card= ATI radeon 8500
Sound= integrated on vid card

This machine is being built to handle my video and music needs. Stability is the main factor I'm looking for. Once again any input will be appreciated.

More about : advice processors

January 3, 2002 2:44:16 AM

get a athlon xp :)  whatever speed you want you'll get the most bang for thy buck. well actually the xp1600+ gives ya the most bang for theee buck according to tom

more bang for thy buck gives me better benches then matisaro ;) 
January 3, 2002 6:46:17 AM

Your motherboard choice limits you to an AMD processor. The best they have to offer is a 1.6GHz Athlon XP (the 1900+ model). You will need to be careful when assembling the system to ensure the heatsink is in proper contact with the processor or you could permanently damage the processor when it is powered on. The processor itself contains no thermal shutoff system on overheating. It relies on the motherboard to do it using the temperature diode on the CPU to monitor the heat. Thusfar I have not seen any motherboards that support this feature so be extra careful.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
Related resources
January 3, 2002 6:51:50 AM

actually some site was selling the axp2000+ (oem) now ima have to search for that site but it was quite pricy, around $360

more bang for thy buck gives me better benches then matisaro ;) 
January 3, 2002 11:03:50 AM

Quote:
Your motherboard choice limits you to an AMD processor. The best they have to offer is a 1.6GHz Athlon XP (the 1900+ model). You will need to be careful when assembling the system to ensure the heatsink is in proper contact with the processor or you could permanently damage the processor when it is powered on. The processor itself contains no thermal shutoff system on overheating. It relies on the motherboard to do it using the temperature diode on the CPU to monitor the heat. Thusfar I have not seen any motherboards that support this feature so be extra careful.



LoL, ray, you sound like an intel commercial again.

To the main poster. Put the heatsink on right, if you dont its your fault, the chip may fry if its installed inproperly, a car may fall appart if the bolts arent put in properly. If done right, there is no chance of processor damage on an axp or p4.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 3, 2002 11:14:53 AM

Agh! He makes it sound like it's rocket science when I did it without problems in 2 minutes flat!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
January 3, 2002 11:19:08 AM

Its his nice way of saying amd is [-peep-], buy intel. At least its more tolerable than intel inside and meltdumbass.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 3, 2002 12:43:27 PM

yeah ive done my homework and seen the video here. I'll get that heatsink on there if i have to weld it on lol. So noone recomends the duron 1200 for better stability and a larger cache ?
January 3, 2002 3:39:45 PM

Why would a Duron be more stable? And it has a smaller cache, last time I checked.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 3, 2002 3:59:33 PM

Matisaro wrote:
<i>LoL, ray, you sound like an intel commercial again.</i>

What did you expect ? The guy works for Intel and his future paycheck could be influenced by how well the Intel CPU's are doing. Other than that, I think he giving some good advice; a lot of people (you would probably call them something like "morons") have had some unpleasent experience with AMD's missing thermal protection. The main poster could be such a moron (I would say un-experienced at most), so better be safe than sorry.


Matisaro wrote:
<i>a car may fall appart if the bolts arent put in properly.</i>

Yes true, but on cars from certain car-makers, this is happening right of the factory!



/Copenhagen - P4 Willamette 1700MHz@2109 MHz, Vcore 1.75V@2.20V on Abit TH7II-RAID.
January 3, 2002 10:00:19 PM

I'd like to thank you guys for the advice. And yes when it comes to computers I am "un-experienced", whatever the hell that means :)  Unfortunately I don't work in the computer business, it's merely a hobby for me. Fatburger thx for correcting me there, the place i originally saw a post about the durons listed its cache incorrectly.

As an afterthought; has anyone here had any experiance with this motherboard? If so, are there any quirks i should watch for? Any unlisted incompatabilities? etc....?
January 3, 2002 10:12:04 PM

A friend of mine has it, and practically swears by it. He would never have bought it, he got it from the XPP Tour. Now he's at the point where he'd have sex with the board if he could. The only incompatabilities are the normal ones with the Via 686b Southbridge.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 3, 2002 10:22:20 PM

Yep. Raystonn, in my book, handles himself as a professional. If he was not favorable towards Intel he
should not work for them. But, he also does not blast AMD. I have the best of both worlds. I own an AMD
and INTEL system.

Thanks for your info Ray.

<font color=blue>Remember.... You get what you pay for. :smile: All advice here is free.</font color=blue> :wink:
January 3, 2002 10:24:17 PM

Thx again fatburger! Although i may pass on trying to have sex with it, "hope your freind understands". ;) 
January 4, 2002 8:54:13 AM

Quote:
Yes true, but on cars from certain car-makers, this is happening right of the factory!


Please explain, how you can equate users IMPROPERLY installing THEIR own heatsinks, with cars coming out of the factory defective?
The analogy is flawwed. If you consider yourself to be such a moron as to not be able to follow heatsink instructions properly, by all means, buy intel.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 4, 2002 5:32:01 PM

Quote:
Please explain, how you can equate users IMPROPERLY installing THEIR own heatsinks, with cars coming out of the factory defective?
The analogy is flawwed. If you consider yourself to be such a moron as to not be able to follow heatsink instructions properly, by all means, buy intel.

I am sorry that you cannot seem to see that people can and do make mistakes. I am sure that you do not mean that one mistake should cost them their CPU, but it sure sounds like this is what you are saying. Please clarify.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 4, 2002 6:33:52 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>Svar på:</font><hr><p>Please explain, how you can equate users IMPROPERLY installing THEIR own heatsinks, with cars coming out of the factory defective?
The analogy is flawwed. If you consider yourself to be such a moron as to not be able to follow heatsink instructions properly, by all means, buy intel.<p><hr></blockquote><p>I never made that comparison. I merely compared car-makers delivering defective cars with AMD offering CPU's without built-in thermal protection to its innocent customers, who are unaware of the consequences that might have on "The Cash In Their Pockets".


/Copenhagen - P4 Willamette 1700MHz@2109 MHz, Vcore 1.75V@2.20V on Abit TH7II-RAID.
January 5, 2002 7:54:51 AM

I am saying this.

Amd chips do not come out of the factory defective, through a users MISTAKE, they can fry if improperly installed. This is not amds fault.


I am further stating this, installing a heatsink is not difficult, there are several illustrated step by step instructions in most mobo manuals and in the retail cpu box for amd/intel. If a user cannot follow pictures to properly install his heatsink, the burn up is HIS/HER fault, NOT amd.

If you think thats unfair, thats fine, but life isnt fair, and if you do things properly and follow directions your cpu will NOT fry.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 5, 2002 7:57:02 AM

A defective car is NOTHING like an amd cpu not having thermal protection.


If a car maker offers you a broken car, that is his bad, a mistake, and is illegal.

AMD's cpus do not have on die thermal protection, missing a feature(last I checked) is not a defect. All cpus up untill the p3 didnt have any thermal protection, are they all defective as well?

You are confusing missing features with defects with features.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 5, 2002 8:28:57 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>Svar på:</font><hr><p>All cpus up untill the p3 didnt have any thermal protection, are they all defective as well?<p><hr></blockquote><p>No, but at that time thermal protection was not necessary to prevent a CPU from frying.



<blockquote><font size=1>Svar på:</font><hr><p> You are confusing missing features with defects with features.<p><hr></blockquote><p>I would consider a missing engine revolution limiter on a modern car as a defect and this is essentially what AMD is delivering at the moment.



/Copenhagen - P4 Willamette 1700MHz@2109 MHz, Vcore 1.75V@2.20V on Abit TH7II-RAID.
January 5, 2002 8:33:02 AM

Quote:
No, but at that time thermal protection was not necessary to prevent a CPU from frying.


If you think you can run a p2 without a heatsink and have it not fry you are mistaken.

So your first point is invalid, unless you wish to claim all processors are defective.


Quote:
I would consider a missing engine revolution limiter on a modern car as a defect and this is essentially what AMD is delivering at the moment.



The thermal protection is not a vital part of a cpu, to think otherwise is your oppinion, there hasnt been any thermal protection in any cpu untill recently, and they could fry long before they implemented thermal protection.


AMD's not having on die thermal protection is a missing feature, I agree, but it is FAR from a defect.




"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 5, 2002 8:54:59 AM

when processors run as hot as athlons do, it's a defect

<i>The devil's advocate</i>
January 5, 2002 8:56:15 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>Svar på:</font><hr><p>If you think you can run a p2 without a heatsink and have it not fry you are mistaken.<p><hr></blockquote><p>I never claimed it would run, I'm just saying that it wont burn in a matter of seconds. I really haven't tried it myself, but I've never heard about it being a problem until recently with the introduction of the AMD Athlon and its successors.


<blockquote><font size=1>Svar på:</font><hr><p>The thermal protection is not a vital part of a cpu, <p><hr></blockquote><p>Well, I'm sure that people that have experienced the consequences of missing thermal protection, would disagree with you.


/Copenhagen - P4 Willamette 1700MHz@2109 MHz, Vcore 1.75V@2.20V on Abit TH7II-RAID.
January 5, 2002 10:56:26 AM

When people troll like you do, they have a problem!!!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
January 5, 2002 1:40:05 PM

OK nuts i didn't start this thread for a flame war! I simply asked what proccesor you would recomend for that board. Move along folks nothing to see here lol
January 5, 2002 1:47:58 PM

Saying the Athlon runs too hot is a matter of personal opinion. The amount of heat it generates is a design factor, not a defect. That's what heat sinks are for. To dissipate the heat away. The heatsink performs flawlessly on my computer.
January 5, 2002 2:18:48 PM

copen, let me ask you 4 questions: -

1. are you and all intel users were going to care about amd if it was not beating intel?
2. how many disadventage amd cpu has?
3. in your entire computer using life, how many person you met using amd? and how many of them their cpus fried? specially for athlon?
4. why you and the rest of the world are buying new cpus from time to time? because of its heat protection or performance?

wish if there was UnDo in the life
January 5, 2002 5:33:43 PM

Quite a challenging question I might add.
From what I see in this forum, all P4 users have this small grudge against AMD. I am not saying they are against them but they seem to realize small facts more dramatically and use them against AMD.
While AMD users have no problem against Intel users, probably because they were Intel users before. But certainly some are disappointed for now at Intel and are using AMD instead. That's my POV and once I get my AXP I am sure I won't regret a single dollar spent on it. I bet anyone who was using a P4 and switched to AthlonXPs wouldn't be saying anything against it, because it is faster and performs better.

As for the main subject here, the AXP 1600 or 1700 are the best band for the buck. They are quite close in performance due that it's only 66mhz increments, and it is useless to pay 100$ more on an AXP 1800-1900 for a little more performance.

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
January 5, 2002 7:13:29 PM

the fact that it runs hot and doesn't have proper thermal protection = defect

<i>The devil's advocate</i>
January 5, 2002 7:31:19 PM

i've seen many posts with links that say the p4 runs hotter

Oh aye its guaranteed, but I'm not too sure about the stuff inside. - Scotty
January 5, 2002 7:38:51 PM

The Athlon runs as designed, its thermal property is not a defect. The thermal protection feature is nice for some people, but it's not an overriding concern for me. Unlike you, I don't have nightmares of fan blades breaking off or HSF falling off.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 5, 2002 7:52:04 PM

Why is it that people are so affraid of AMD pulling ahead in the computer world? Since everyone is comparing cars in this, look at a stock car - its engine is going to be a hell of a lot hottter than the everyday car. Does that mean it doesn't perform properly? It has air intakes and other features that let it run properly. Just like the AMD has a heatsink and fan. If you don't vent the race car, it overheats too - it doesn't have a thermal shutoff - yet the everyday car has warning flashing lights that beep when the engine overheats. So is the racecar a defective product, or not as good? No, it's just different. Get over it. So what if the AMD runs hotter or doesn't have a thermal sensor. It performs it's job and does it quite well.

On the fields of friendly strife are sown seeds that on other days will bear the fruits of victory.
January 5, 2002 8:27:53 PM

The XP1600+ is at an excellent price point at the moment and gives plenty of juice for any of todays apps. If you have the need for speed later on you can get a nice chilly Barton in 12 months.

<font color=blue> Smoke me a Chip'er ... I'll be back in the Morgan </font color=blue> :eek: 
January 5, 2002 11:53:51 PM

Holy crap man, you're a fanatic. Relax already! Did you screw up and forget to put a HSF on, install it wrong, or what is your problem?

Desperate to prove a point you'll try anything won't you?

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
January 6, 2002 12:08:07 AM

Quote:
the fact that it runs hot and doesn't have proper thermal protection = defect

same can be said for intel chips:
the fact that it runs at such a high clock rate and does not have a proper clock:ipc ratio = defect.
and what is "proper"? what one person sees as proper another might see it as redundant.

[insert philosophical statement here]
January 6, 2002 12:39:05 AM

Did I hit a weak spot ?
It certainly looks like I did, judged on the feedback. I'm firm on this one; it's just so stupid not to have a proper built-in thermal protection, and a lot of people have learned it the hard way.

dhlucke: I've never owned an AMD uP in my life. I've been close a couple of times, but always found a good solid Intel setup. But I have read numerous posts of people who have managed to fry their AMD uP during installation, probably due to an incorrectly seated heatsink. A lot of DIY's (mostly poor people on a budget) choose AMD due to low price, but actually Intel uP is the perfect DIY. It wont let you down, ever.

/Copenhagen - P4 Willamette 1700MHz@2109 MHz, Vcore 1.75V@2.20V on Abit TH7II-RAID.
January 6, 2002 12:45:46 AM

roflmao!! that's a new one for the books. amd customers are poor people. it keeps getting better and better. thanks copenhagen for the laugh. :D 

[insert philosophical statement here]
January 6, 2002 12:52:46 AM

You don't own one, never have, yet you are preaching?!

I own both Intel and AMD systems and I assure you that both are fine. Whether you like it or not, people who have problems with overheating have it because of user error. Either they bought a HSF and installed it wrong or they bought a HSF that isn't spec'd to handle their CPU.

Either that or they overclocked too far.

Others that burn up are those that experiment with watercooling and fail.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
January 6, 2002 7:16:18 AM

well I don't think that is true, in fact amd customers end up spending more in replacing motherboards and dead cpu's and high-tech cooling systems for their overclocking experiments.

<i>The devil's advocate</i>
January 6, 2002 7:27:49 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>Svar på:</font><hr><p>thanks copenhagen for the laugh. :D  <p><hr></blockquote><p>You're welcome :-)




/Copenhagen - P4 Willamette 1700MHz@2109 MHz, Vcore 1.75V@2.20V on Abit TH7II-RAID.
January 6, 2002 7:50:44 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>Svar på:</font><hr><p>Whether you like it or not, people who have problems with overheating have it because of user error. Either they bought a HSF and installed it wrong or they bought a HSF that isn't spec'd to handle their CPU <p><hr></blockquote><p>I don't care what you say. There's no reason why a users investment should be put in such a jeopardy. It shows AMD's lack of commitment to its users in the area of reliability.



/Copenhagen - P4 Willamette 1700MHz@2109 MHz, Vcore 1.75V@2.20V on Abit TH7II-RAID.
January 6, 2002 8:19:55 AM

No, it shows amds faith in its users, faith that they arent blithering morons.....guess intel things all of its buyers are retarded.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 6, 2002 8:46:17 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>Svar på:</font><hr><p>No, it shows amds faith in its users, faith that they arent blithering morons.....guess intel things all of its buyers are retarded.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah, whatever you say Matt.





/Copenhagen - P4 Willamette 1700MHz@2109 MHz, Vcore 1.75V@2.20V on Abit TH7II-RAID.
January 6, 2002 8:47:47 AM

Quote:
Yeah, whatever you say Matt.



For you, and anyone else who may not have noticed. The idiot comment was a joke...carry on.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 6, 2002 11:00:57 AM

run along now...

<i>The devil's advocate</i>
January 6, 2002 11:10:00 AM

You run along you little pre-teen troll...

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
January 6, 2002 11:17:15 AM

sorry you have the wrong guy, I'm not pre-teen or a troll

<i>The devil's advocate</i>
January 6, 2002 11:21:13 AM

Blithering morons makes up the majority of the world. AMD is missing out on a big market.

<i>The devil's advocate</i>
January 6, 2002 11:32:31 AM

Hey intel_inside, whats with this facination for all my posts, it seems every word I say you are right there with a not so intelligent quip about trolldom. Perhaps you are attracted to me?

I understand, many people find my computer knowledge sexy, however I am forced to inform you I dont do men, or intel trolls, unlike meltdown. So perhaps you meltdown and creeper should run along and have a nice party or something, and leave the tech questions to those of us with brains.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 6, 2002 11:32:46 AM

Other than that, I like the term "Blithering morons", I can almost visualize that. :-)



/Copenhagen - P4 Willamette 1700MHz@2109 MHz, Vcore 1.75V@2.20V on Abit TH7II-RAID.
!