Racism in NO

We might as well discuss this. Everyone else is.

<A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4210674.stm" target="_new"> New Orleans crisis shames Americans</A>

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=154328#154328" target="_new">My commentary on my trip to NO earlier this year</A>

It upsets me to be "right". As a matter of fact I would almost say it is worse that what I saw since I was only staying in the French Quarter.

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*rubs hands together*

This should be good

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The Corp of Engineers have said for years, that NO could only take a direct hit from a Cat 3 ... after that, the levee's would give way ... did the mayor (a black man) or the council (majority black) have an adequate plan for evactuating in a Cat 4-5 storm ... obviously not ... where were the prepositioned busses - before the storm?

Where were the reviews and planning, before the storm (that we all knew would hit someday) ... it was, hopefully, the next mayors or governor's problem (if they lasted their terms) ... but this one jumped up and bit them in the arse ...

So, now, let's blame GWB ... but did the governor have any guard prepositioned ... no. Did the Governor declare Marshall law - no. Did the police force of NO just give up and half turned in their badges ... yes.

You know, to moblize a National Guard Unit, takes days (if they weren't on standby already) ... these ppl are citizen soldiers, they have jobs and family's to leave, things to pack, places to muster, orders and locations to await, equipment to draw ... they don't keep this crap in their houses ...

Why didn't the mayor (a black) have an adequate evacuation plan, why didn't the LA State gov't have an adequate plan ... they were all hopeing it would be the next guy or woman who had to deal with it ... this was comming for a long time ... and everybody passed the buck ... and the NO Mayor is playing the race card ... and apparently so are you DH ... I'd have thought better of you.

People, listen up, if you are counting on the Fed Gov't to bail you out of poor planning, neglect or just plain foolishness - ur dead.

If you think the Fed will save you tomorrow - forget it ... it takes 4-5 day for a Fed Gov't response to a disaster like we've never seen before ...

This storm destoyed an area the size of Great Britain ...

You're own your own in these things ... whatever color ...


<b>"The Edge - there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over." Hunter S. Thompson, </b><b><i>Hell's Angels, 1965</i></b>

God ... we can do without you foreign as<b></b>sholes taking cheap shots ... when you know nothing about this country or what has happened there ... you don't know that Bill Clinton vetoed extra spending requests from the Corps for this "Mississippi Projects" every year he was in office ...

Sod ... you don't know jack sh|t ... you just beat your chops and hope to fool a few people ... try to run an op once in your life ... join the military ... and learn how these things work ... we have FEMA ... they come in to clean up and help ... not to save lives when the 1st 2 lines of defense failed miserably ...

obtw ... you still su<b></b>ck ...


<b>"The Edge - there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over." Hunter S. Thompson, </b><b><i>Hell's Angels, 1965</i></b>

That a white president only comes back from holidaying a full 3 days after the hurricane hit looks horrendously bad - politically and humanely speaking, of course.

PBS with the Jim Lehrer hour discussed this and it was interesting to note that the US journalist/pundits felt that this catastrophe would galvanise many in the counrtry to question socioeconmoic levels in the south - in other words, people would ask: 'how can this be America?'



<b><font color=green> "Nodboy ever lives their life all the way up except bullfighters." - Ernest Hemingway, <i> The Sun Also Rises </i> </b> </font color=green>

I understand that JB. What I am alluding to though, is that given what we now know about the situation in NO a white president [forgetting that is GWB] returning from holidays 3 days after a predominantly black city was wiped out by the worst natural disaster to hit the nation, possibly ever, looks horrendous. Its not about liking GWB or disliking him - its just the personal response from the man was impotent looking.

But the man has admitted that it was a poor response and now he and his government are rectifying things - positive news, indeed.

As for big Jim: I've not watched the program long enough to make a fair and just judgement on the man's credibilities but he does appear to be a fair moderator, despite his personal political persuasions.

I've read quite a few of your posts regarding the hurricane, JB. You seem pretty fired up, are you ok? [/sincere look in one's eyes]

<b><font color=green> "Nodboy ever lives their life all the way up except bullfighters." - Ernest Hemingway, <i> The Sun Also Rises </i> </b> </font color=green>

I don't see it that way at all... The separation of Feds. rights from states rights was a big cause of it.... The Feds. can't come in until the local governments are inundated & request help... Hence NO mayor didn't raise a big enough flag for the LA governor to wave a flag to the Feds. They half ass asked 3 days later, but had already dropped the ball!!!!!

The biggest lesson in this is "The Feds & regular military are the only ones that can take care of a disaster of this size"!!!!!! Will the states give up their rights to the Feds. should a similar event occur again???? That will be debated for a long, long time!!!!




Dazzle them with Brilliance, or Baffle them with BS!

It was also cut the 8 years for Clinton as well...

I think you'll find that when FEMA was put under Homeland Security it was a mistake!!!!

You post says a lot about you as well.... [surug]



Dazzle them with Brilliance, or Baffle them with BS!

Stirring the shite are we? NO has known that this would happen. In fact, as bad as it was hit it could have been even worse. As for the racial crap, and thats what it is, this is nothing more than everyone tossing the blame. The Gov. damn sure doesnt want to be take responsibility neither does the Mayor so why not Bush. The events that have taken place after the hurricane hit arent the Pres. fault. Everyone is desperate and most people are without communications so they rely on word of mouth. Rumors are out of control but this is the only thing that so many have to base their feelings on.

Lets talk about the REV. Jackson for a sec. I had a very hard time with one of the aritcles I read over on Drudge.com. Blacks are eating dead corpses to survive. We can go without food for 20 days or more, its water that we need the most. If they are eating the dead this early"and I really doubt they are" keep in mind that this is the same crew that has been shooting at the helicopters. I would and have put myself in harms way doing emergency rescue operations but I damn sure wouldnt commit sucide by running into NO unless some of these idiots were picked off by a sniper. There are people worth saving in NO, but there are also many that arent. This is a terrible situation, but its something that everyone that lived there knew would happen. We could argue about this forever, but the sad truth it that a large number of the people left are some of the worst scum that inhabit the earth.

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Some of you missed what I was trying to say. I suppose I was a bit too brief and let this go in the wrong direction from what I intended.

I'm not saying that it's Bush's fault. What I'm saying is that when push comes to shove it is Bush who will have to take responsibility. He's the man in charge and this has been a terrible failure that will no doubt result in the loss of thousands of lives that otherwise could have been saved. People should not have been without food, water, and sanitation for so many days in this country when those services were a skip and a beat away if people were evacuated promptly after the storm.

People knew that there were tens of thousands of people stuck in a flooded city with multiple levee breaks. They knew this almost immediately. They knew this before the storm even hit. The storm was originally predicted to be a cat 5 that would hit NO directly. Where were the hundreds or thousands of busses that were going to be needed to promptly evacuate people? Where were the helicopters? Were they on the way? Were hydrofoils on the way? They keep talking about pre-positioning relief workers and supplies but they never planned on having flooding and a logistical nightmare? What kind of moron would make plans for NO being hit by a Hurricane (and a cat 4 to boot) and not count on massive flooding?

They must have known that a relatively large portion of the population would have no means to evacuate the city let alone make it to the superdome. They must have known that the people in the superdome and convention center would need food, water, and toilets. Where were the huge planes that should have been dropping supplies down on the city almost immediately? What kind of jackass wouldn’t have at least a dozen fully loaded cargo planes ready to drop supplies within a day of a supposed cat 5 impact on New Orleans?

It is a disgrace anyway you slice it, for the citizens of a major American city to have to suffer like this. It is completely and unequivocally unacceptable. People are simply shocked at the lack of relief. It isn't even "American". When the Tsunami hit we were there almost immediately. When it happens here there is such a lag that the federal government didn't even know about the people starving to death in the convention center for 4 days.

With that said you have to ask "why". Yes, funding was reduced by about a dozen million for the levee. Funding of a few billion was not approved to raise and secure the levee for a cat 5 hurricane. However, that's not the issue. The issue is why there was such a delay for help.

Maybe people simply didn't care. I care. Maybe others didn't. From my experience the racial lines in NO were very apparent. Others are starting to ask the question of whether we just left the poor minorities of NO to Mother Nature.

The major was screaming, swearing, and stomping his feet. So was the governor. It's tough for me to blame them. They seemed like they wanted things done.

We'll find out soon enough.

I then look at the media coverage. For the first couple of days I didn't even think it was that bad. Granted it was kind of tough to get an accurate picture of the devastation and mayhem, but I really wish the press was screaming and shouting the first couple of days like they were after 4 and 5 days.

I hear they did an excellent job bringing a whole bunch of busses to the Ritz Carlton though. They did a story on the misery inside of the hotel and sure enough the next day they got relief. I'm not sure if that's true though. I've also heard that what they did was took the 700 guests and simply moved them to the front of the Superdome evacuation line.

Why was Bush on Vacation for the first 3 days of this? Satellite pictures clearly show that a major American city, an American icon, was destroyed along with countless other communities across multiple states. Boots on the ground must have told him almost immediately what had happened.

He's the boss. He reaps the rewards when things are good and he'll pay the price when things are bad.

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Mississippians' Suffering Overshadowed
Sep 03 11:49 PM US/Eastern


By EMILY WAGSTER PETTUS
Associated Press Writer


JACKSON, Miss.


Mississippi hurricane survivors looked around Saturday and wondered just how long it would take to get food, clean water and shelter. And they were more than angry at the federal government and the national news media.

Richard Gibbs was disgusted by reports of looting in New Orleans and upset at the lack of attention hurricane victims in his state were getting.

"I say burn the bridges and let 'em all rot there," he said. "We're suffering over here too, but we're not killing each other. We've got to help each other. We need gas and food and water and medical supplies."

Gibbs and his wife, Holly, have been stuck at their flooded home in Gulfport just off the Biloxi River. Water comes up to the second floor, they are out of gasoline, and food supplies are running perilously low.

Until recently, they also had Holly's 75-year-old father, who has a pacemaker and severe diabetes, with them. Finally they got an ambulance to take him to the airport so he could be airlifted to Lafayette, La., for medical help.


I dont think this guy was 100% correct, but he is correct about MS. being overlooked. Weve got relief pouring in, but NO has gotten the most coverage. There are some idiots here also, A guy killed his sister over a bag of ice the second day in the city I live in. I hear people on the radio every day that still cant get out of their communitys and dont know if their family is alive or dead. Most of these people are suffering like the people in NO, but the majority of our people are trying to help each other while it seems to be just the opposite in NO. Ive been to Monroe LA. three times for gas. Monroe is in the very north part of the state and was not hit. Everytime that I make it back home I tell myself that I wont go back again because everytime ive gone I have been confronted about the tank of gas. My point is that many of these people are using this as an excuse to act the way that they are. My heart goes out to those who have stolen food just so they can survive, but IMO there is a big difference between the two.


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Thats just my opinion. In the end, the rescuers will decide based on what they encounter. I would turn around and go find another place to help if I they were shooting at me. Thats a hard thing to say and even harder to do but I would make this choice based on the fact that if I am killed it certainly wont help the others that wouldnt have shot at me.

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Your wrong about everyone bieng overlooked. Maybe I used the wrong word. We were hit the hardest but NO has gotten most of the coverge. Is it because of its size? That is only part of the reason. The media and people like Sharpton and Jackson pointing fingers and trying to lay the blame is the biggest factor. I could be called a racist for making that statement, and many might think that I must be if that is the way I truely feel. This is exactly what most of the media, Sharpton, Jackson, and Alltaken are shooting for. Im not a racist and I cant stand people that are, but even though this is the real thruth it would be covered up simply by the perception that the coverage has implanted. I keep seeing so many articles about the majority of deaths and victims in NO being black. The overwhelming majority of people who stayed were black, so yes the majority of victims are certainly going to be black. There are some that just didnt have a choice but to stay, but there are more than you would probably beleive that stayed more out of choice than not.

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This is a disgrace and the reason why I would choose to help MS. Going back to how you compare War and Rescue and 10 lives being worth it if it saves 1000.... The 10 lives that were lost would have been able to save 1000's more if they werent being shot at. I still dont agree with this comparison.

The fact remains that there are no good answers!



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The last large hurricane was in 1969 and that is when the Levy was initiated to prevent this kind of disaster, but government has restricted funds to the project and diverted funds away from this project many times and the levy has in fact never totally been finished. The pleas of the ones in the know in the scientific community to have this levy completed in full and even made higher and stronger have gone unheard for 35+ years.

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<font color=green>(" )_(" )</font color=green>

Go back and quote "facts" that I have manipulated ... I'll wait, you "rocket scientists" you ...


<b>"The Edge - there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over." Hunter S. Thompson, </b><b><i>Hell's Angels, 1965</i></b>

Some plainly put it that there was no "Mayor Giuliani" in this crisis which is what was so desperately needed.

...

Fair enough the local authority should bear responsability but in the end I'm telling you that Bush is top dog and will have to bear the brunt of it. He has the power to bring in any aid he wants at anytime he wants. We saw him do it, just too late.

Supplies and people were prepositioned in about a dozen locations but they were too few and they were immobile due to the flooding I think.

I'm not sure why having a black mayor and black government dissmisses any racial bias in this issue. The fact still remains that the people that suffered were black and that the relief effort was practically non-existant for days. Out of tens of thousands of people they only managed to evacuate something like 3000 in the first 4 days.

Your point about vacation is well taken.

A lot has to change. I'd hate to have a 9.0 earthquake here and wait days and days for life sustaining aid.

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That might be true but a couple other things are true as well:

1. Cargo planes should have been dropping aid onto NO (and other hard hit areas) within 24 hours.

2. Hundreds if not thousands of buses should have been on their way immediately after the hurricane hit. I admit that there might have been some shock that the levees broke in NO, but despite that, buses should have been on their way from every nearby state to all the affected states almost immediately.

3. Hydrofoils and helicopters should have been on their way as well. Hundreds of them along with the fuel to drive them all.

How many days would it take for busses, helicopters, and hydrofoils to get to the affected areas?

4. Military ships should have all been deployed immediately as well as the cruise lines for temporary housing.

5. The national guard should have been deployed immediately to shoot any armed civilians after martial law was declared and a mandatory evacuation was ordered.

6. There should have been enough resources available to both take care of the dead and the living. Hopefully we won't have any disease problems now. The psychological impact on the population is going to be devastating. People have been committing suicide, including 2 police officers.

7. Somebody should have taken it upon themselves to disseminate information at the main refugee centers. People in the superdome and convention center had no idea what was going on and were wondering if anyone was going to help them. This is what probably led to a lot of the violence and lawlessness.

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<A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4213214.stm" target="_new">Read this...</A>



I wouldn't call it hindsight though. We could have done all that. We just didn't.

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I wouldn't call it anti-US. It's just a graphic look at some of the horrors.

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Keep spinning it any way you want...This happened under Bush's watch. We've seen so many things go wrong for America and the world since he's been in office. I didn't vote for Clinton, but I sure miss him now. What a disaster this president is, it's truly sad to think we could have had John McCain as our president.


<b><font color=blue>Athlon64 3200+ Winchester/MSI Neo4 Platinum SLI/MSI 6800 Ultra/1 GB Kingston HyperX (Dual Channel)/74GB WD Raptor/600Watt Enermax Noisetaker/ Dual Mitsubishi 21 Inch Monitors</b></font color=blue>

Yeah, that <i> Jack </i> Barnes is a real character alright.

Sorry, I know its just a typo but it read funny to me. [/swallows a girlish giggle - stands up straight and salutes <b> Jack </b> Barnes]

<b><font color=green> "Nobody ever lives their life all the way up except bullfighters." - Ernest Hemingway, <i> The Sun Also Rises </i> </b> </font color=green>

<b> Here, Here! Russ. Nicely said. </b>

<b><font color=green> "Nobody ever lives their life all the way up except bullfighters." - Ernest Hemingway, <i> The Sun Also Rises </i> </b> </font color=green>

You got that right Russel!!!!

Liberals have trouble realizing they lost power in the last 2 elections... Hence the House, Senate, & the Presidency all were lost... Now we have some real movement away from the left & they are so filled with hatred for Bush, they just don't know how bad they hurt themselves....

Now the Supreme court is going to be realigned..... After 43 Presidents & only 16 Chief Justices, these choices in the next month, will last longer into the future than my lifetime....

I'm proud I worked for this change & can see it in my life time!!!!




Dazzle them with Brilliance, or Baffle them with BS!

What exactly has Bush done to make you so proud of him? We have yet to see any results from anything he's done regardless if you think his motivations and direction for change is the right one.

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