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New Computer System Guide - Updated

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January 4, 2002 11:50:33 PM

I have compiled a list of systems, listed in order of price, showing where we currently stand on recommended computer hardware. This is intended as a guide for those who wish to purchase or build a new computer system. Note that, as always, market prices are subject to change without notice. All prices listed here were obtained at <A HREF="http://www.pricewatch.com" target="_new">PriceWatch</A>. Feel free to interchange different components if your favorites were not listed here. This is only a guide.

-- Last 10 modifications --
* Updated all prices to reflect the latest on 1/11/2002
* Changed 2GHz and 2.2GHz Northwoods to retail
* Updated all prices to reflect the latest on 1/13/2002
* Updated 1.67GHz Athlon (XP 2000) to Retail as it is finally available
* Updated all prices to reflect the latest on 1/15/2002
* Updated all prices to reflect the latest on 1/29/2002
* Changed Intel-based motherboards to Abit TH7II for better OCing.
* Added overclocking information on Northwood Pentium 4 1.6GHz.
* Changed overclocking information from percentages to resulting clockspeed.
* Added overclocking information on Northwood Pentium 4 1.8GHz.
=============================================================================

[AMD-based Cheapie System, RAM not very upgradable]
One 256MB CAS2.5 PC2100 DDR SDRAM modules from Crucial: $75.59
Retail Athlon 1.33GHz (XP 1500) (comes with heatsink/fan/warranty): $119
IWill XP333 motherboard: $98
-----------
Total: $292.59


[AMD-based Value System, best air-cooled overclock is 1.81GHz]
One 256MB Corsair PC2700 DDR SDRAM module w/Heat Spreader (great for overclocking): $132
Retail Athlon 1.4GHz (XP 1600) (best air-cooled overclock is 1.81GHz, comes with heatsink/fan/warranty): $125
IWill XP333 motherboard: $98
-----------
Total: $355


[Intel-based Low-end Value System, best air-cooled overclock is 2.711GHz]
Two 128MB Samsung PC800 RDRAM modules (great for overclocking): $70
Retail Pentium 4 1.6A (Northwood) (best air-cooled overclock is 2.711GHz, comes with heatsink/fan and warranty): $160
Abit TH7II motherboard: $139
-----------
Total: $369


[Intel-based High-end Value System, best air-cooled overclock is 2.564GHz]
Two 128MB Samsung PC800 RDRAM modules (great for overclocking): $70
Retail Pentium 4 1.8A (Northwood) (best air-cooled overclock is 2.564GHz, comes with heatsink/fan/warranty): $210
Abit TH7II motherboard: $139
-----------
Total: $419


[AMD-based Top of the Line, best air-cooled overclock is 1.77GHz]
One 256MB Corsair PC2700 DDR SDRAM module w/Heat Spreader (great for overclocking): $132
Retail Athlon 1.67GHz (XP 2000) (best air-cooled overclock is 1.77GHz, comes with heatsink/fan/warranty): $283
IWill XP333 motherboard: $98
-----------
Total: $513


[Intel-based Performance System, best air-cooled overclock is 2.8GHz]
Two 128MB Samsung PC800 RDRAM modules (great for overclocking): $70
Retail Pentium 4 2.0A (Northwood) (best air-cooled overclock is 2.8GHz, comes with heatsink/fan and warranty): $374
Abit TH7II motherboard: $139
-----------
Total: $583


[Intel-based Top of the Line, best air-cooled overclock is 3.1GHz]
Two 128MB Samsung PC800 RDRAM modules (great for overclocking): $70
Retail Pentium 4 2.2GHz (Northwood) (best air-cooled overclock is 3.1GHz, comes with an excellent heatsink/fan and warranty): $553
Abit TH7II motherboard: $139
-----------
Total: $762



-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 5, 2002 2:33:30 AM

Are you going to recomend any hard drives, graphics cards, sound cards, or power supplies etc? Or had you just planned to look at parts that are specific to the processor used(i.e. the Motherboard and RAM to go with that Motherboard)?

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
January 5, 2002 2:55:19 AM

I was concentrating mostly on just the CPU and everything that immediately supports it, since this is the CPU forum. There are way too many choices to include all other components on such a list.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
Related resources
January 5, 2002 3:06:59 AM

Please don't recommend generic memory. It's just not worth it. Even with DDR prices doubling it's not worth it.

Also, why is the P4 heatsink excellent compared to the AMD's stock heatsink? :) 

None of this matters if the Northwood doesn't stack up like you say it will. None of this matters if it starts at the $500 mark either. Do you know if we'll get benchmarks before monday and do you know what kind of supply there will be?

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
January 5, 2002 3:58:51 AM

if no retails of the XP200+ are yet available, how do you have their price??

Ray your a funny dude..

<font color=green>
*******
*K.I.S.S*
*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
*******
</font color=green>
January 5, 2002 4:03:45 AM

Several online retailers are taking orders which his price is based on.


<font color=blue>Remember.... You get what you pay for. :smile: All advice here is free.</font color=blue> :wink:
January 5, 2002 5:22:24 AM

Not to shabby there Ray... but I agree, generic RAM (even in the PC2700 variety), should be avoided. That should bump the price a few notches. Right now, both CPU builders offer pretty comperable systems, based on price and performance. Granted, one can argue that AMD is better than a comparable (in price or PR rating?) Intel CPU at certain tasks, but the same holds true when the tables are turned. Right now, I'd buy AMD over Intel, only cause I like the Athlon for what it's good at: MP3 encoding (when I purchased this system 6 months ago, and money <i>was</i> an issue) and gaming. Also, I liked the choices involved with all the chipsets, making it a challenge to find the best one for your desired tasks (I ended up getting an A7A266, ALi Magik chipset, and ya know, it may be a nanosecond slower, and a couple of FPS slower at res'es that I couldn't reach with my graphics card, but it's stable, and I've only been able to crash it on purpose or blatant error)

So yeah, it's good to see how AMD has forced Intel's hand, and vice versa, cause it's all good for us, as long as they don't drive each other into bankrupcy.

And as to the pricing of the Northwood systems, while you may know Ray, none of us do. So, for all we know, the debut price may be a bit to high even for the most performance-driven segment of this forum. Maybe not. But, what I'd love to see is a comparison of all the debut prices (in today's dollars, so inflation is accounted for) for AMD, Cyrix, Intel, etc. CPUs, their market share at the time, and how quickly they fell in price. I know, it's complicated, but it would give us (or at least the young'uns like me) an idea of how competition with Intel has lowered (or not) CPU prices.

-SammyBoy
January 5, 2002 6:53:09 AM

Quote:
Please don't recommend generic memory. It's just not worth it. Even with DDR prices doubling it's not worth it.

The system with the generic PC2700 DDR SDRAM is supposed to be the AMD-based Value System. Is it worth paying $80 more for name brand Corsair memory for a Value System?


Quote:
Also, why is the P4 heatsink excellent compared to the AMD's stock heatsink? :) 

They tend to be able to handle the heat even while overclocking. Can the stock HSF on an Athlon XP do that?

Quote:
None of this matters if it starts at the $500 mark either.

The systems are ordered by price, including those with the TBA prices. It should help you figure out the general price range of the TBA items. (There is a reason I stated this in bold. :) 

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 5, 2002 6:55:10 AM

Quote:
if no retails of the XP200+ are yet available, how do you have their price??

I do not. The price, as stated above, is for the OEM version. This is why it clearly says "OEM" and is also why a heatsink/fan is added to the system separately.

-Raystonn



= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 5, 2002 7:15:25 AM

I made a couple edits to the original post in response to the received input. The changes have been outlined in the post.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 5, 2002 7:22:05 AM

I am glad you didnt try to hock an 80 dollar psu on us like you tried to do in your last "price" comparison.


However some points I must make.


1: the amd system will be substancially faster than the p4 system, if you are comparing value, try it with equal systems instead of trying to stack the deck.
2: why pc2700? It isnt even an established standard yet, pc2100 on the amd system would still allow it to eat the p4 up in performance.

So knock 100 bucks off the amd price(for the ram), and then we can talk.

Otherwise, good comparison.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 5, 2002 7:24:01 AM

Quote:
They tend to be able to handle the heat even while overclocking. Can the stock HSF on an Athlon XP do that?


Yeah, fsb overclocking, the stock amd heatsink can handle 100mhz or so. I dont think overclocking potential should be considered in the value of a retail heatsink, especially in a guide to help newbies on their computer choices...do you?

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
January 5, 2002 8:42:43 AM

I think this one is his AMD overclocker. Notice the choice of the motherboard. That Corsair he chose kicks a$$. Why would someone planning to overclock the FSB want to use PC2100 and risk it not working? It just so happens this is nearly a carbon copy of what came to my mind, while considering AMD system options (thanks for the help AMD_Man).
January 5, 2002 10:10:31 AM

on both AMD systems he uses the Iwill, and also, not everyone overclocks..at least i dont. so why not use the pc2100 on the first amd system and drop $100 off that price? otherwise like matisaro already stated, nice price comparison, i see someone's advertising for his business in a numeric way :) 

more bang for thy buck gives me better benches then matisaro ;) 
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
January 5, 2002 11:06:48 AM

yeah I guess he has edited it, I think he originally had generic PC2100 for the value AMD system.

sorry guys, I didn't go back and reread, until you brought it up. I was asking myself what the !@#$% is going on?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by knewton on 01/05/02 05:08 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 5, 2002 1:58:05 PM

unfair comparision at all

neither axp2000+ price is officially anouced nor P4 northwood, so you can not estimate.

for ram, u r using smasung pc800 which is exist before while and it is not new product, while corsair pc2700 is new and therefore the price will be higher and it is one module of 256 not 2x128.

and if your point was to make haed to head comparision for the specifications then we all know that even pc2700 can not reach pc800, but in general xp platforms are faster than p4 and mostly in everything.

and in order to be more accurate we have to wait the tbred and compare it with northwood, thus we can find out if intel steped forward or remained as in xp and p4wm.

wish if there was UnDo in the life
January 5, 2002 5:57:09 PM

Ray your PC2700 prices are way too high. My local shop sells OCZ PC2700 memory, and PC3000 and they are only 119$ CANADIAN prices. The PC3000 is 149$ CDN with Heat-spreaders and CL2.5.
So you'll need to take off some of that money score.
We'll have to wait till next week to judge the prices and performance finally. We've waited long enough for NW, now show us its strengh!

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
January 5, 2002 6:24:09 PM

The corsair is CL2 and thus should give quite a bit more bandwidth. It also has a heat spreader. Remeber the old saying: you get what you pay for. I think that saying is appropriate in this case. For the value system I agree a less expensive alternative to the corsair seems more likely to me.
January 5, 2002 7:31:02 PM

Quote:
the amd system will be substancially faster than the p4 system, if you are comparing value, try it with equal systems instead of trying to stack the deck.

Sorry, but a 1.8GHz Pentium 4 will not be slaughtered by a 1.47GHz Athlon (XP 1700). They will probably perform about the same.


Quote:
why pc2700? It isnt even an established standard yet, pc2100 on the amd system would still allow it to eat the p4 up in performance.

Part of the value in the system is that you can keep your memory the next time you upgrade. This is why I chose the Samsung PC800 for the Intel-based Value system. Does everyone agree that this is a good value or should I drop it down to PC2100 memory? That will remove any upgrade value for the memory later on.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 5, 2002 7:42:41 PM

Quote:

Sorry, but a 1.8GHz Pentium 4 will not be slaughtered by a 1.47GHz Athlon (XP 1700). They will probably perform about the same.

Disagree there! The XP1700 is about as fast as a 2GHz P4 (overall). In most common tasks, the XP1700 will be faster. The XP1500 or 1600 is more comparable to the 1.8GHz P4.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
January 5, 2002 7:51:32 PM

Even then, the 1600 is still gonna be the winner. Whatever is below 2GHZ for P4 is not a good competition for the AthlonXPs. Hey, if a 1.33GHZ AXP can outrun a 2GHZ, then there is serious low performance there. As for memory, I still think that price was very expensive for DDR.
Just see the test for yourself, I am sure the AXPs are more than clear winners for the 1.8GHZ, but they will be challenged on the power system.

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
January 5, 2002 8:20:16 PM

The Guide (main post) was updated again.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 5, 2002 9:07:00 PM

So instead of increasing the p4 to match the athlon, you lower the athlon to match the p4?

Oh well.


As for your ram choice, alot of pc2100 ram will overclock, thats what you are doing with the samsung, so 2100 is all anyone needs. Pc2700 on a value system is stupid. You could make the argument you made if instead of buying standard pc800, you went the extra mile and got pc1066.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 5, 2002 9:16:48 PM

He's buying supposedly overclockable PC800 RAM. Sure, sure, there's PC2100 RAM that can overclock to 333MHz too!!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
January 5, 2002 9:23:20 PM

Quote:
So instead of increasing the p4 to match the athlon, you lower the athlon to match the p4?

They would no longer have been Value systems then. They were already getting pricey. Most people here would agree that the 1.4GHz Athlon (XP 1600) is currently the most price efficient AMD processor.



Quote:
As for your ram choice, alot of pc2100 ram will overclock

Will any of them overclock to DDR333 speeds? DDR333 is going to be the next big standard DDR speed to be introduced. Samsung PC800 RDRAM will overclock to the next memory standard, PC1066. The point here is to keep from having to purchase new RAM when you upgrade systems later. That is part of a Value system. Keep as much as you can when you upgrade.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 5, 2002 9:36:38 PM

<b>Most</b> 400Mhz RD RAM will overclock to 533Mhz if the clock generators support it.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
January 5, 2002 9:42:51 PM

Quote:
They would no longer have been Value systems then. They were already getting pricey. Most people here would agree that the 1.4GHz Athlon (XP 1600) is currently the most price efficient AMD processor.



And yet you chose the 1700+ origionally as the "value" processor, I find it hard to believe you didnt know the 1700+ was faster than a p4@1.8ghz....looks like stacking the deck to me.



Quote:
Will any of them overclock to DDR333 speeds? DDR333 is going to be the next big standard DDR speed to be introduced. Samsung PC800 RDRAM will overclock to the next memory standard, PC1066.



Most samsung ram, not all, you CANNOT use a rams overclockability as a value designation, how would you explain to the purchaser why his pc800 wouldnt do 1066, when he probably dosent know anything about computers, its a value system after all. Pc2100 must be used, 2700 wont be the standard for at least 6 months, the point is flawwed.

Quote:
The point here is to keep from having to purchase new RAM when you upgrade systems later. That is part of a Value system. Keep as much as you can when you upgrade.


Yep, upgradeability is a VITAL part of a value system, god knows those e-machines are damn upgradable.


Sarcasm aside, upgradability is NOT a component of a value system, a value system is cheap today, and runs today, tomorow is of no concern.

However if you wish to decide value in your manner,thats fine, my points about pc2700 stand as stated above.

I am sure there are pc2100 brands which will overclock to 2700 speeds(probably), just becase MOST samsung ram will hit 1066 dosent mean its acceptable to sell it as such.


"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 5, 2002 10:07:55 PM

Quote:
And yet you chose the 1700+ origionally as the "value" processor, I find it hard to believe you didnt know the 1700+ was faster than a p4@1.8ghz....looks like stacking the deck to me.

Frankly, I do not believe it is. However, I changed from the model 1700 to the model 1600 because people were complaining about this. This is not meant to be a debate thread, but a Guide. I am attempting to do a service for our community and do not appreciate being accused of "stacking the deck." There is a reason I started another thread prior to this to obtain more information about components used in AMD-based systems.


Quote:
Most samsung ram, not all, you CANNOT use a rams overclockability as a value designation, how would you explain to the purchaser why his pc800 wouldnt do 1066, when he probably dosent know anything about computers, its a value system after all. Pc2100 must be used, 2700 wont be the standard for at least 6 months, the point is flawwed.

First off, I have yet to see any PC800 Samsung RDRAM that will not run at PC1066. They have <b>all</b> done it, and I have seen quite a few. Samsung's yields are so good right now that they could effectively label 99.99% of their modules as PC1066. They do not do this because there is no market for PC1066 at this time.

Second, most people in the market for Value systems are not going to be upgrading sooner than 6 months from now. What relevance does your point that "PC2700 will not be the standard for at least 6 months" have? How does this make any of my points flawed, as you claim? It only goes to show that you do need to purchase high performance RAM for Value systems if you want to keep from purchasing new RAM at <b>every</b> upgrade point. Buying high performance RAM will allow you to skip the RAM upgrade at about every other system upgrade point. That is a considerable savings in money.



Quote:
upgradability is NOT a component of a value system, a value system is cheap today, and runs today, tomorow is of no concern.

Sorry, but that does not sound like such a great value to me, or any of the other dozens of lurking readers on this forum. That may be the way some system builders do business, but I am trying to offer people <b>real</b> value, not what some businessman markets as value. That is our role here as hardware experts. We provide people with good advice and help them to achieve real value. In the eyes of an expert, upgradability is part of a good value.



Quote:
I am sure there are pc2100 brands which will overclock to 2700 speeds(probably)

If you can find any please let me know and I will replace the PC2700 module in the AMD-based Value system. My only goal for that piece of RAM in that particular system is to allow a system upgrade without requiring a purchase of new RAM, and tossing out the old. It also adds a bit of performance, allowing CAS2 operation at whatever speed it is used. Thus, you get a bit of added performance, while saving money down the road on an upgrade.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 5, 2002 11:39:29 PM

i thought "value" systems were usually equipped somewhat with "yesterday" tech. eg. dells with p4's runnin sdram? hardly looks like a secure upgrade path to me.

[insert philosophical statement here]
January 5, 2002 11:42:14 PM

Raystonn, you're never going to make everyone happy so don't sweat it. Come monday benchmarks should be out, pricedrops will be announced, and there will be 5 of these guides in this forum. I give you a lot of credit for jumping into the fire before Monday.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
January 5, 2002 11:59:39 PM

Quote:
i thought "value" systems were usually equipped somewhat with "yesterday" tech. eg. dells with p4's runnin sdram? hardly looks like a secure upgrade path to me.

Traditionally they are. However, as experts in computer hardware I feel we have a duty to give people what will actually be a real value to them, rather than what all the big companies call a value. I am sure there is more than one person reading this post that was upset to find out his system was obsolete one month after his purchase. Our definition of value should include a deterrent to this planned obsolescence without increasing the cost of the system to anywhere near that of a performance or top of the line system.

One of the benefits of being an 'expert' in this field (computer hardware) is that you tend to know what will and will not be usable in a computer 6 to 12 months down the road. Others should be given the benefit of our knowledge on this subject. I chose to include it in this guide.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 6, 2002 12:02:18 AM

Raystonn, no matter what you say, no one on earth can guarantee that overclocking that RAM to PC1066 will always work. You cannot guarantee an overclock no matter what, even if the odds of a successful overclock is 99%. The PC800 has not been specifically tested to run at PC1066, the PC2700 however has. Therefore, if you can't run that PC2700 at 333MHz you can get your money back but if that PC800 can't overclock to PC1066, you're out of luck. See what I mean? It's not a fair comparison. Very few people purchase PC2700 now anyway, so that doesn't represent a major segment of buyers here. Therefore your choice to include PC2700 is flawed.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
January 6, 2002 12:03:41 AM

Quote:
Raystonn, you're never going to make everyone happy so don't sweat it. Come monday benchmarks should be out, pricedrops will be announced, and there will be 5 of these guides in this forum. I give you a lot of credit for jumping into the fire before Monday.

I am hoping to create some kind of consolidated Guide/FAQ that gets updated as new hardware is released and prices change. I am pondering adding another section to the Guide called the "Cheap" section with systems that perform reasonably but may have zero upgrade path. This would alleviate some of the complaints about the more expensive memory.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 6, 2002 12:09:02 AM

Quote:
Raystonn, no matter what you say, no one on earth can guarantee that overclocking that RAM to PC1066 will always work. You cannot guarantee an overclock no matter what, even if the odds of a successful overclock is 99%.

Correct. Noone can guarantee any particular module you purchase will actually work by the time it gets to you either, even at its rated speed. If it does not work, feel free to take it to your vendor and exchange it with another. They usually will not complain about this. However, so far I have had 0 Samsung RDRAM modules that have not worked perfectly at PC1066.


Quote:
Very few people purchase PC2700 now anyway, so that doesn't represent a major segment of buyers here. Therefore your choice to include PC2700 is flawed.

The purpose of this memory is to allow you to either overclock or to upgrade in the future. It would be best not to have to buy new memory every time you upgrade to a system that can use more memory bandwidth. (This will be every upgrade from here on out pretty much.) Throwing out RAM that was purchased 6 months to a year ago is not a good value.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
January 6, 2002 12:20:24 AM

yeah, but what kind of guide would it be without it? Personnaly I wouldn't waste my time buying PC2100 if I knew I was immediatly overclocking. Sure most of it probably works, but I want a guarantee. What's the price premium like 1%?

I mean, I don't think Raystonns point is to try and sell these concoctions he's come up with, rather spread the wealth of his experience. The guide is very useful for a less experienced overclocker trying to get an idea of what parts might increase his chances of succesfully reaching his overclocking goals.

You guys could argue all day about the logic of comparing apples and oranges in the value system. Seems irrelevant to me since: most folks on the forums here could care less about the value recomendations, and immediatly would gravitate towards the good stuff.
January 6, 2002 12:22:25 AM

thank you for replying ray. i do agree. hehe, but to tell you the truth i don't have that much will power :tongue: i start buying a couple new parts and next thing you know i got a complete new system sitting there. so for me, i buy what's out at the moment then worry later (or buy more later, lol). but generally speaking i see what you're saying.

[insert philosophical statement here]
January 6, 2002 12:40:48 AM

Add the cheap section. I bet that will solve a lot of problems. Besides, 5-12 mo down the road when the person does upgrade there will be something new on the horizon. They'll also probably have to buy more memory anyways since 256MB is the minimum even today. The cheap and value sections really don't need memory for "tommorrow". If they follow that logic they'll always be spending more money for something they won't use much. If I would have bought PC133 memory for my PC100 system I would have wasted a ton of money. I went from PC100 to DDR. That's of course assuming that memory requirements will continue to rise. In my experience every upgrade requires double the amount of memory. 128MB to 256MB to 512 MB. Will I hit a gig next time? I have no idea. Right now I say I doubt it, but I said that when I bought 128MB too.

An overclocker today will need good memory, but I'm not so sure buying PC2700 today is on many people's shopping list. For my overclocking needs right now PC2100 works relatively fine. I'm not hardcore though.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
January 6, 2002 12:50:31 AM

I completely agree

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
January 6, 2002 1:02:53 AM

The best place for PC2100 DDR SDRAM would be <A HREF="http://www.crucial.com" target="_new">Crucial</A> correct? If not, which of the brands on PriceWatch would you recommend?

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 6, 2002 1:11:52 AM

Definitely crucial.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
January 6, 2002 1:12:20 AM

Yup, that's the best place.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
January 6, 2002 2:08:45 AM

I have updated the Guide. Check the notes for what has changed.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 6, 2002 8:38:45 AM

Quote:
Traditionally they are. However, as experts in computer hardware I feel we have a duty to give people what will actually be a real value to them, rather than what all the big companies call a value. I am sure there is more than one person reading this post that was upset to find out his system was obsolete one month after his purchase. Our definition of value should include a deterrent to this planned obsolescence without increasing the cost of the system to anywhere near that of a performance or top of the line system.


What I object to rayy, is the fact that you are using your experience, suggesting OVERCLOCKABLE rdram, and comparing it to paying a premium for IN SPEC pc2700 ddram.

I think it is doing the community a DISSERVICE, to suggest that all pc800 ram will do 1066 easily. I think that there are ram modules out there that will not, and furthermore I believe your motive(as was shown in your last pricing guide) is to make intel out to be a better value than amd.

I have no objections to your pricing guide, OTHER than the ram issue. You basically are adding 100 bucks to the cost of the amd system, to perform the same function as you are not asking the intel system to perform(ie perform IN SPEC, the next level of ram performance).

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 6, 2002 8:41:05 AM

I suppose the addition of the cheapo section alleviates some of my concerns, I wish there was retail pc1066 ram for sale so you could do a proper comparision, but for now I think the guide is fine.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 6, 2002 2:37:44 PM

"... There is a reason I started another thread prior to this to obtain more information about components used in AMD-based systems. ..."

Would have been nicer if you had said this upfront.
January 6, 2002 3:30:47 PM

Quote:
Personnaly I wouldn't waste my time buying PC2100 if I knew I was immediatly overclocking. Sure most of it probably works, but I want a guarantee. What's the price premium like 1%?

Actually more than 30% ($52 vs. $71). There are some PC2100 that are very good when oc.

:smile: Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.
January 6, 2002 5:23:25 PM

Also, Raystonn, if this guide is meant for computer buyers, I would consider an Iwill XP333-RAID for the higher-end system.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
January 6, 2002 5:23:27 PM

Also, Raystonn, if this guide is meant for computer buyers, I would consider an Iwill XP333-RAID for the higher-end system.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
January 6, 2002 5:26:33 PM

Hey, that is valuable info. Yay, the forum does it again. Is there a high rate of this RAM being able to do DDR333 right out of the box? I looks to me like that's what Mr. Raystonn was trying to make sure of. If it can maybe that should be what is in the value, and maybe even the high end AMD, since after all he is using Samsung PC800 for both the Intel equivalents.

All in all though I'd say that is an honest mistake for a person who spends his days mired in Intel systems.

If it were me though, I would still want that corsair stuff.
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