New Dell systems get spanked in 3DMark2001

Flyboy · Jan 9, 2002

Hey guys, I know 3 people who bought a Dell desktop for Christmas. They all have the video upgrade to the 64Mb GeForce 2 MX400, I believe. Two of the systems have WinME, and one has Win XP. I ran 3DMark2001 on these systems (default settings) and ALL of them scored about 2300 (1024x768x16).

One of my systems has a PIII 750 with GeForce 2MX 400 and it scores 2450. Granted, it is overclocked to 825Mhz, but I expected these new Dell's to stomp all over my 3 year old 440BX.

What the hell is going on here? At first I thought it was the operating system (WinME), but the Win XP system returned similar findings (I believe it scored a bit higher, ~2500).

Which is it:
1. Reference drivers for video?
2. Win ME and XP?
3. RAM, my system has 256Mb (theirs has 128Mb)?
4. My system is overcloced?

Any ideas? I'm really stumped. Anyone else out there with a Dell (4300 series I believe)?

Catheter and Caffeine IV are in place. Let's PLAY.

dhlucke · Jan 9, 2002

Apparently that video card is a real piece of crap. I think that about sums up the problem. Maybe someone knows how to squeeze out every bit of performance from it. Good luck.

God Bless America!

Flyboy · Jan 9, 2002

So you thing Dell put in a POS video card? Hmm...I'm going to have to open up the case on that Dell system and take a peak.

Actually, maybe I should use the Sandra benchmark and check things out in more detail. I'm pretty sure they got the 64Mb GeForce 2 card. Funny thing is, now Dell only offers the ATI Rage for the same desktop (4300).

Catheter and Caffeine IV are in place. Let's PLAY.

Flyboy · Jan 9, 2002

One more thing. This is a PRIME example of why one should build their own system. Here I am with my very first home-build that is 3 years older than these BRAND NEW Dell's...and mine performs equally (or better).

Of course I did upgrade it about 6 months ago. Went from a Celeron 300A to PIII 750, and upgraded from a TNT to a GeForce 2 MX400.

Catheter and Caffeine IV are in place. Let's PLAY.

Guest · Jan 9, 2002

The video card that is equiped on the 4300 series of Dell computers is a "16 MB ATI Rage Ultra 4X AGP graphics card", I will be guessing that this is the Rage 128, though I'm not entirely sure.

In any case, being a low end 3d card from ATI, even the high end P4 processor included with the machine isn't going to let it fly in 3d performance, especially when matched by a much faster Geforce 2 MX400(in your system).

Flyboy · Jan 9, 2002

No, I'm pretty sure the systems came with a 64 Mb GeForce card. That means there cards should be better than mine, right? I mean mine is only a 32Mb GeforceMX. There's are 64Mb Geforce 2MX.

Now, Dell is selling the ATI RAGE's. I know its confusing, but Dell seems to change the configuration options DAILY.

Catheter and Caffeine IV are in place. Let's PLAY.

Guest · Jan 9, 2002

to sum it up, here is reasons why u are getting those scores.

1. 3dmark2001 is 3d card benchmark program.
2. Geforce 2 MX 400 sucks ass.
3. normal score for geforce 2 mx 400 is 2500
4. was not worth upgrading to G2 MX, atleast G2 GTS or Ti
5. Dude, You Got a Dell! (dell system sucks)

FatBurger · Jan 9, 2002

novcool is right, except for the fact that it was your friends who got the Dell, not you.

I have a 64MB GeForce 2 MX (Hercules) in my box right now, and my 3DMark scores are no different.

Quarter Pounder Inside

Flyboy · Jan 9, 2002

I have no doubt that the GeForce 2MX 400 sucks (couldn't afford the GTS at the time), but my confusion is that these new systems (NOT MINE, friends) are peforming WORSE than my 3 year old system! My card is the 32Mb version and theirs has the 64Mb. Since I score a 2450, I figure these new systems should at least score a 3000 MINIMUM!!! Also, my 440BX is only rated for 100Mhz FSB (PC100 ram), and theirs should be 200Mhz right (100Mhz, DDR?)???

I just figured all around they should run better. I just about broke one of my friends down to tears when I told him that my system beat his... What makes it worse is that I recommended Dell to him. He didn't want me to build it, so I figured Dell was the best way to go according to public opinions...

Catheter and Caffeine IV are in place. Let's PLAY.

Flyboy · Jan 9, 2002

Hmm...all righty then. I guess those scores are typical. You know what I should do is run the benchmark at 640x480. They should double my score then, right Burger? Because the AGP bus is no longer the bottleneck?

BTW, "wOOt" you didn't think your "fan" was gone forever did ya'?

Catheter and Caffeine IV are in place. Let's PLAY.

FatBurger · Jan 9, 2002

I don't know about double, but it'll raise them, sure. I'm not sure what the point is (since you're not trying to make your friends feel better

), but alright.

Quarter Pounder Inside

Flyboy · Jan 9, 2002

The point would be to figure out exactly what the bottleneck is. To prove your and Novcool's theory that it's the video card, I should lower the resolution right?

And of course, to make my friends feel better. I'm just confused because their videocards are better and their mobo's support AGP4x, mine is only 2X. Their AGP bandwidth should be higher and so should their scores.

Catheter and Caffeine IV are in place. Let's PLAY.

Negaverse23 · Jan 9, 2002

If the 64Mb GeForce 2 MX400 is a upgrade, then what would be the previous model?

__
My hammer has a bigger Hammer than your hammer.

FatBurger · Jan 9, 2002

2x/4x won't make that much of a difference, current video cards can't really use 264MHz of bandwidth to the RAM.

Negaverse, the standard card is an Ati Rage 128, last time I checked.

Quarter Pounder Inside

LoveGuRu · Jan 9, 2002

thats a big mistake, its like saying the hd cant use all the ATA100 and such bandwidth's.
actually the geforce 2mx 200 have the agp bus at x2 and they score much lower.


*******
*K.I.S.S*
*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
*******

FatBurger · Jan 9, 2002

thats a big mistake, its like saying the hd cant use all the ATA100 and such bandwidth's.

Hard drives CAN'T use all of the ATA100 bus, or am I missing your point?

Quarter Pounder Inside

Flyboy · Jan 9, 2002

I wish I could go to Dell's site and check, but since Christmas they have changed the video card options. All I know is it wasn't a GeForce card (probably an ATI), and I recommended going with the GeForce 2 upgrade, which all three did. It was also recommended by Dell. You know how they have a recommended section highlighted for each configuration option. The one I recommended said:

"64MB NVIDIA GeForce2 MX 4X AGP Graphics Card with TV-Out Dell Recommended"

The low end (default) was:
"16MB ATI Rage Ultra 4X AGP Graphics Card [subtract $40]"

Catheter and Caffeine IV are in place. Let's PLAY.

Flyboy · Jan 9, 2002

I think I agree with you FatBurger because when I change the from 2x to 4x, I see very little- if any improvement in the benchmark score. But what if I upped the resolution to 1600x1200 or something? Would it take advantage of the bandwidth then?

Also, why are hardware developers even considering AGP8x if we currently don't even take advantage of AGP4x? (AGP8x may just be rumor, I don't know)

Catheter and Caffeine IV are in place. Let's PLAY.

FatBurger · Jan 9, 2002

You would use more of the bus, but you still wouldn't be using all of it.

Why are they considering 8x? Because it sounds better to those who don't know, just like ATA133.

Quarter Pounder Inside

LoveGuRu · Jan 9, 2002

i ment that you cant use all the 100MBps band as you cant with the AGP bus, thogh when you aim higher your arrow is sure to get relatively higher acordingly as well.


*******
*K.I.S.S*
*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
*******

Groundhogster · Jan 9, 2002

I recommend Dell because I'm not awake 24 hours a day and 365 days a year for support. It's a good deal if they never plan on taking apart the case. You would be lucky if 5% of computer users care what is inside of their case. I guarantee you won't come close to the 3 year warranty they offer when you build them yourself for all your friends. I build my own but I sure and hell don't want people calling me all the time with computer problems. I already get lots of calls from folks who bought Dell, Gateway, QVC, etc for problems. At least I can say call Dell if they own one. Just remember "If you build it they will call".

Are you the friend who works on computers?

FatBurger · Jan 9, 2002

I agree. Like I said, it won't make "that much of a difference". Some, but not a lot.

Quarter Pounder Inside

xxsk8er101xx · Jan 9, 2002

thats the benefit of building your own system. You have a much larger upgrade path.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>

Flyboy · Jan 10, 2002

Excellent advice dude. I've built 4 systems for friends, and have gotten some calls. Usually its THEIR fault of course. Case in point: The latest call from my cousin regarding the Athlon system I built for her. I get over there only to discover that it now has a different operating system- Windows XP...drivers are all screwed up. My brothers Athlon system somehow didn't have its chipset drivers (VIA 4-in-1) installed or they were deleted somehow...

Hell, now I'm getting calls from the Dell customers as well! AGhhh...can't win. I agree with you 100%. Don't build for others and don't even recommend a system if you can help it. Let them do their own homework! I hate to say this because I like helping people out but dang...RTFM and do some RESEARCH.

Oh go ye brown-eyed toothless wonder.

Crashman · Jan 10, 2002

GeForked over MX200's are AGP4x cards! They only suck because they have a 64-bit memory path! IN fact they suck worse than a TNT2 (which has a 128-bit memory path).

What's the frequency, Kenneth?

New Dell systems get spanked in 3DMark2001

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