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3.5E Warlock Questions

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May 21, 2005 9:32:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

All,

I've been reading the Warlock entry in the Complete Arcane and I have
some questions.

Eldritch Blast isn't an Invocation, as far as I can tell. It is just an
ability. Reading under that section I can't tell if it provokes an
attack of opportunity to use it or not. I also cant tell how often the
Eldritch Blast can be used. Can they use it at will? I know Invocations
are useable at will but as far as I can tell Eldritch Blast itself isnt
an invocation.

Next, do the Eldritch and Blast Shape invocations trigger attacks of
opportunity to alter the blasts? I know the "Other" Invocations surely
must, but the shaping and essence, I'm not sure. I assume they do but
it seems odd for some of them.

Finally, and this is why I started wondering this, what is the sequence
of events to use the Hideous Blow ability? Does the Warlock have to
cast on the defensive twice, once to use the Eldritch Blast and once
again for the Invocation? Or just once for the Hideous Blow itself? I
assume the latter since the description of Hideous Blow on p 134
implies that the use of Hideous Blow replaces the normal use of the
Eldritch Blast with the weapon attack.

Also, what about something more clear like Hellrime blast? Is there one
cast on the defensive roll for using the Hellrime modification and one
more cast on the defensive for launching the blast?

Also, how long do Blast-altering invocations last? Is it an instant
thing or can one cast Hellrime Blast, then save it? I assume not. I
just wanted to check.

Thanks,

Lewis

More about : warlock questions

Anonymous
May 22, 2005 12:35:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

lewis@lwb.org wrote:
> All,
>
> I've been reading the Warlock entry in the Complete Arcane and I have
> some questions.
>
> Eldritch Blast isn't an Invocation, as far as I can tell. It is just an
> ability. Reading under that section I can't tell if it provokes an
> attack of opportunity to use it or not. I also cant tell how often the
> Eldritch Blast can be used. Can they use it at will? I know Invocations
> are useable at will but as far as I can tell Eldritch Blast itself isnt
> an invocation.

From the Complete Arcane errata:

Page 7: Eldritch Blast
Second paragraph of the Eldritch Blast ability
description:
Change “An eldritch blast is the equivalent of a spell
whose level is equal to one-half the warlock’s class
level (round down), with a minimum spell level of 1st
and a maximum of 9th when the warlock reaches 18th
level or higher” to “An eldritch blast is the equivalent
of a 1st-level spell. If you apply a blast shape or eldritch
essence invocation to your eldritch blast (see page 130),
your eldritch blast uses the level equivalent of the shape
or essence.”
Any other references to eldritch blast being something
other than the equivalent of a 1st-level spell should be
disregarded.
Any other references claiming that eldritch blast is not
an invocation should be disregarded.
A warlock can use eldritch blast at will.


Since it is a spell-like ability, an eldritch blast provokes AOOs in use.

> Next, do the Eldritch and Blast Shape invocations trigger attacks of
> opportunity to alter the blasts? I know the "Other" Invocations surely
> must, but the shaping and essence, I'm not sure. I assume they do but
> it seems odd for some of them.

Sure. Why not?

> Finally, and this is why I started wondering this, what is the sequence
> of events to use the Hideous Blow ability? Does the Warlock have to
> cast on the defensive twice, once to use the Eldritch Blast and once
> again for the Invocation? Or just once for the Hideous Blow itself? I
> assume the latter since the description of Hideous Blow on p 134
> implies that the use of Hideous Blow replaces the normal use of the
> Eldritch Blast with the weapon attack.
>
> Also, what about something more clear like Hellrime blast? Is there one
> cast on the defensive roll for using the Hellrime modification and one
> more cast on the defensive for launching the blast?
>
> Also, how long do Blast-altering invocations last? Is it an instant
> thing or can one cast Hellrime Blast, then save it? I assume not. I
> just wanted to check.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lewis
>

I don't have C.A. at hand, so I can't answer this yet. Perhaps others can.
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 8:14:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Some Guy wrote:
> lewis@lwb.org wrote:
>
>> Next, do the Eldritch and Blast Shape invocations trigger attacks of
>> opportunity to alter the blasts? I know the "Other" Invocations surely
>> must, but the shaping and essence, I'm not sure. I assume they do but
>> it seems odd for some of them.
>
> Sure. Why not?

Actually, the answer is no. Rich Baker clarified on the Wizards of the Coast
fora that using a blast shape or eldritch essence invocation shouldn't even be
dignified with the name "action". It's just something you do when using Eldritch
Blast as naturally as you choose your target.

>> Finally, and this is why I started wondering this, what is the sequence
>> of events to use the Hideous Blow ability? Does the Warlock have to
>> cast on the defensive twice, once to use the Eldritch Blast and once
>> again for the Invocation? Or just once for the Hideous Blow itself? I
>> assume the latter since the description of Hideous Blow on p 134
>> implies that the use of Hideous Blow replaces the normal use of the
>> Eldritch Blast with the weapon attack.

Rich Baker says it's like blast shape invocations - it's not an action to use it
at all, *but* Andy Collins in Sage Advice ruled that making a Hideous Blow
attack provokes attacks of opportunity. Which is dumb, but hey.

--
Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you
understand?
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigec...
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatel...

Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the
leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to
danger. It works the same in any country.
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Anonymous
May 22, 2005 2:56:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Christopher Adams" <mhacdebhandia@yahoo.invalid> wrote in message
news:AGTje.11076$E7.7783@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> Rich Baker says it's like blast shape invocations - it's not an action to
> use it at all, *but* Andy Collins in Sage Advice ruled that making a
> Hideous Blow attack provokes attacks of opportunity. Which is dumb, but
> hey.

Indeed. Dumb to the point of making the ability worthless, unless you are
using a spiked chain or other reach weapon. Warlocks cannot take that kind
of beating.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 4:56:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

mhacdebhandia@yahoo.invalid wrote:

> >> Finally, and this is why I started wondering this, what is the sequence
> >> of events to use the Hideous Blow ability? Does the Warlock have to
> >> cast on the defensive twice, once to use the Eldritch Blast and once
> >> again for the Invocation? Or just once for the Hideous Blow itself? I
> >> assume the latter since the description of Hideous Blow on p 134
> >> implies that the use of Hideous Blow replaces the normal use of the
> >> Eldritch Blast with the weapon attack.
>
> Rich Baker says it's like blast shape invocations - it's not an action to use it
> at all, *but* Andy Collins in Sage Advice ruled that making a Hideous Blow
> attack provokes attacks of opportunity. Which is dumb, but hey.

Hideous Blow is already pretty pointless: a special ability which lets
you turn your ranged touch attack into a normal melee attack. Why would
anyone want to do that, especially if they have a d6 hit die?

Hideous Blow would be pretty cool if gave eldritch blast damage on all
your attack, and I don't think it'd be overpowered. Or if it would, it'd
be easy enough to fix.


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 10:29:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote:
>Hideous Blow is already pretty pointless: a special ability which lets
>you turn your ranged touch attack into a normal melee attack. Why would
>anyone want to do that, especially if they have a d6 hit die?

It's like your unarmed strike (and STR bonus) becomes bonus damage
on your Eldritch Blast...


>Hideous Blow would be pretty cool if gave eldritch blast damage on all
>your attack, and I don't think it'd be overpowered. Or if it would, it'd
>be easy enough to fix.

Umm, sure. Can you say "flurry of blows, two-weapon fighting"? I think
you can even specify "touch attacks only"...

Monk/Warlocks are already pretty cool (too bad they need to be LE, or
have radical alignment shifts at some point), and with Enlightened
Fist, pretty decent builds.

Donald
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 1:44:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

tsang@soda.csua.berkeley.edu wrote:

> >Hideous Blow is already pretty pointless: a special ability which lets
> >you turn your ranged touch attack into a normal melee attack. Why would
> >anyone want to do that, especially if they have a d6 hit die?
>
> It's like your unarmed strike (and STR bonus) becomes bonus damage
> on your Eldritch Blast...

And in return, you haven't taken some other invocation instead, you're
now standing right next to people instead of 30 ft. away, and worst of
all, you have to hit people's normal AC instead of their touch AC.

Not a good deal at all, unless I'm missing something crucial.

> >Hideous Blow would be pretty cool if gave eldritch blast damage on all
> >your attack, and I don't think it'd be overpowered. Or if it would, it'd
> >be easy enough to fix.
>
> Umm, sure. Can you say "flurry of blows, two-weapon fighting"?

I can, but so can any monk/rogue, and that isn't considered terribly
overpowered.

OK, the monk/rogue has to flank or be invisible, is foiled by uncanny
dodge, crit immunity, Blind Fight... so I grant allowing full eldritch
blast damage on every melee attack might be overpowered. But how hard
would that be to fix? Say you only get half the number of dice on melee
attacks. I still think that would make a better and more interesting
abilit (allowing swordsmen warlocks and such) than Hideous Blow as it
stands now.

> I think
> you can even specify "touch attacks only"...

I'm not sure I understand. What do you mean, specify "touch attacks
only"?

> Monk/Warlocks are already pretty cool (too bad they need to be LE, or
> have radical alignment shifts at some point), and with Enlightened
> Fist, pretty decent builds.

I haven't really put much thought into how monk/warlock/enlightened fist
would work, but it does sound like an interesting idea.

But I still think it'd be even more interesting with something like my
suggestion above implemented. :) 


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 1:44:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote:
>> I think
>> you can even specify "touch attacks only"...
>
>I'm not sure I understand. What do you mean, specify "touch attacks
>only"?

I'm reasonably certain (though IDHTRIFOM) that a monk can Flurry
of Blows on unarmed touch attacks. So that he only has to hit
touch AC, but doesn't do his normal unarmed damage. This would
make the whole "hideous blow on all natural attacks" really nasty.

So would a Warlock in Carrion Crawler or Roper form, but I digress...

>> Monk/Warlocks are already pretty cool (too bad they need to be LE, or
>> have radical alignment shifts at some point), and with Enlightened
>> Fist, pretty decent builds.
>
>I haven't really put much thought into how monk/warlock/enlightened fist
>would work, but it does sound like an interesting idea.
>
>But I still think it'd be even more interesting with something like my
>suggestion above implemented. :) 

Well... uhh, yeah. I just like the whole Monk/Warlock idea for the
"Chinese Ghost Story" Taoist Monk vibe.

Donald
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 5:01:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Malachias Invictus" <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:TtCdnSAocdRSWg3fRVn-uQ@comcast.com...
>
> "Christopher Adams" <mhacdebhandia@yahoo.invalid> wrote in message
> news:AGTje.11076$E7.7783@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>> Rich Baker says it's like blast shape invocations - it's not an action to
>> use it at all, *but* Andy Collins in Sage Advice ruled that making a
>> Hideous Blow attack provokes attacks of opportunity. Which is dumb, but
>> hey.
>
> Indeed. Dumb to the point of making the ability worthless, unless you are
> using a spiked chain or other reach weapon. Warlocks cannot take that
> kind of beating.

Then again, a decent Concentration score would solve that problem, unless
the opponent has Mage Slayer...

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
Anonymous
May 26, 2005 5:24:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Mon, 23 May 2005 12:56:27 +0200, Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote:

>Hideous Blow is already pretty pointless: a special ability which lets
>you turn your ranged touch attack into a normal melee attack. Why would
>anyone want to do that, especially if they have a d6 hit die?

How about combined with a sneak attack?
Anonymous
May 26, 2005 5:24:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Bill the Omnipotent" <weis3w3@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:D 86a91l2itnk7u1be31ogccj7bjqi60ja5@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 23 May 2005 12:56:27 +0200, Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr>
> wrote:
>
>>Hideous Blow is already pretty pointless: a special ability which lets
>>you turn your ranged touch attack into a normal melee attack. Why would
>>anyone want to do that, especially if they have a d6 hit die?
>
> How about combined with a sneak attack?

Self-limiting.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
!