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Taylanator is RIGHT!

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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 18, 2002 6:12:24 PM

Not so much in his personal attack on the writers, but certainly in his point about what the real story is here. The real headline for the article should be "P4 Performs like crap at 3 gigahertz!". I was shocked to see that the P4 running 50% faster performs only 10-20% better, at best. And this was never even mentioned in the article. Unbelievable! This certainly adds credence to AMD's claims that clock speed is no longer a valid basis for cpu performance comparison. It is obvious that an Athlon running at 3 ghz would (and will) absolutely destroy a P4 at 3 ghz.

More about : taylanator

January 18, 2002 6:18:44 PM

No need to create another account so you can pat yourself on the back...

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 18, 2002 6:19:55 PM

Quote:
I was shocked to see that the P4 running 50% faster performs only 10-20% better, at best.

why would you think the relationship would be linear? see my post in the other thread.
Quote:
It is obvious that an Athlon running at 3 ghz would (and will) absolutely destroy a P4 at 3 ghz.

agreed...don't remember anyone saying otherwise...

no vestige of a beginning, no prospect of an end, when we all disintegrate, it'll all happen again.
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January 18, 2002 6:23:03 PM

good point... except a athlon can't run at 3ghz YOU GOD DAMNED MORON
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 18, 2002 6:27:56 PM

And why would you think that it should not be linear? Yes, I saw your post and it does not hold water. Your analogy with ram is completely invalid, like comparing apples and oranges. The measure of a truly high performing cpu is the degree of linearity of performance with increased cycles and the P4 fails miserably.

Love like you've never been hurt. Work like you don't need money. Dance like no one is watching.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 18, 2002 6:29:00 PM

Huh?

Love like you've never been hurt. Work like you don't need money. Dance like no one is watching.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 18, 2002 6:30:40 PM

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa. The pot calls the kettle black.

Love like you've never been hurt. Work like you don't need money. Dance like no one is watching.
January 18, 2002 6:31:24 PM

Quote:
The measure of a truly high performing cpu is the degree of linearity of performance with increased cycles and the P4 fails miserably.


Remember that a CPU's clock frequency is determined not only by the FSB, but by the multiplier. THG was only able to modify one of these two (the FSB). Processors coming out of Intel will have a modified multiplier, as well as (soon, I hope) moving to a 133 bus.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 18, 2002 6:31:50 PM

hehe, i like you.

no vestige of a beginning, no prospect of an end, when we all disintegrate, it'll all happen again.
January 18, 2002 6:34:46 PM

I agree. I missed that post the first time.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 18, 2002 6:40:41 PM

Ok, just one problem. A cpu is oblivious to the combination of multiplier and fsb used to generate its frequency. To a cpu, 3 ghz is 3ghz regardless of it is the result of 136 * 22, 10 * 300, or 300 * 10.

Love like you've never been hurt. Work like you don't need money. Dance like no one is watching.
January 18, 2002 6:47:53 PM

Get a Grip man. I am not no Intel/AMD fan, I like both of them. I am just really surprised by these kind of AMD fans. I guess they don't like to loose. If you look at the Preformance difference between XP's frequency you will notice they are not linear as you would like it to be.

And please realize that Intel is on top right now. When AMD come back with something you can brag about it all you want. Let Intel Fans brag for now. You guys all braged when AMD was on Top. Only thing Intel fans were complaining about was THG's Video, how AMD doesn't have thermal protection. So now Intel is on top so all the AMD fans will complain about would be 'how P4 has this big MHZ increase with very little preformance'. You guys should first know the difference between both processor's arch. Then make claims like these.

KG
January 18, 2002 6:50:32 PM

Quote:
To a cpu, 3 ghz is 3ghz regardless of it is the result of 136 * 22, 10 * 300, or 300 * 10.


Do you think a CPU with a 1000MHz FSB and a multiplier of 3 will perform the same as a CPU with a 10MHz FSB and a multiplier of 300?

That's what you seem to be implying.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 18, 2002 7:02:31 PM

For the cpu ONLY, absolutely yes. Of course it is nonsense to think that the other components, and thus the overall system performance would be the same. That is not what I am saying.

Love like you've never been hurt. Work like you don't need money. Dance like no one is watching.
January 18, 2002 7:25:08 PM

I don't like they way these arguments are going. They're very immature. As far as I can see though the 3 Ghz version kicks everyone's ass, BUT it's not for sale, it's very special, and if anything it's just a marketing/advertisment ploy using an engineering sample. I was very dissapointed with some of it's benchmarks, but very impressed by most. Nonetheless, it's not for sale. These benchmarks are what I would have expected from Northwood right from the start, so I wish they'd get these on the market NOW, not later when they're not as competitive.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
January 18, 2002 7:31:40 PM

uhm, yeh, is any software out there written to use anywhere near the performance granted by this cpu at 3ghz, i think not... and 20% better, at best isnt exactly the most precise thing to say considering that a 27% increase is seen in certain areas, perhaps more in others, the reason i chose the 27 was that it was on the page i was looking at and the speed increase is closer to 36% so as far as cpu performance goes that is very impressive, i love amd, ive got both my machines (other than the server which has the slowest chip) running amds (a tbird 1.33@1.52 and an XP1800)... the limiting factors for the 3ghz machine would be, most likely, the chipset, which isnt really designed for those speeds... also the graphics cards and ram might have something to do with it as might the hdd interface, anyway enjoy your hatred

if in doubt blame microsoft...
January 18, 2002 7:34:03 PM

He didn't, he's had this account since 2000, but the start of this thread was his second post.

Why are there all sorts of newbies crawling out of the woodwork over this review? It wasn't THAT bad...

ED
Interesting that shortly after Taylanator stoped posting, SRR started too.

I sold my soul to Microsoft, and all I got was this lousy operating system.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by bront on 01/18/02 03:41 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 18, 2002 7:45:01 PM

Quote:
good point... except a athlon can't run at 3ghz YOU GOD DAMNED MORON


This is just another example of the kind of post we don't need here. Someone expresses an opinion, and then someone else gets personal with an insult. And then he gets congratulated by people for a good post (FatBurger and jollygrinch). And FatBurger, you complain about trolls and then condone someone calling someone else a "GOD DAMNED MORON." If you disagree, fine, but leave out the insults.

<i>There are two theories on arguing with women. Neither one works.</i>
January 18, 2002 7:52:34 PM

Good call Bront. Pays to do your homework.

tlaughrey, I thought it was funny. There's nothing wrong with that. If someone makes a joke about my name for instance, I'll laugh but that doesn't mean I'm condoning them making fun of me.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 18, 2002 7:53:56 PM

Well said.

AMD + Intel = lower prices for me :) 
January 18, 2002 8:01:28 PM

Well, I like to laugh and have fun as much as the next guy. And good-natured ribbing is fine. But if someone, especially a newbie, called me a GD MORON, I don't think I'd take it as funny. I thought he crossed the line, but I'm sure it's open to interpretation. Anyway ....

<i>There are two theories on arguing with women. Neither one works.</i>
January 18, 2002 8:01:36 PM

take your fud elsewhere... the fact is, if you toss away mhz, the fastest p4 system possible creams the fastest xp system possible. End of story, point final.

<i>The devil's advocate</i>
January 18, 2002 8:08:31 PM

He registered almost a year ago. I wouldn't consider that a newbie.

(See? I've learned how to look at dates now :lol:  )

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 18, 2002 8:18:45 PM

Quote:

take your fud elsewhere... the fact is, if you toss away mhz, the fastest p4 system possible creams the fastest xp system possible. End of story, point final.

Agreed, now if only it was a tad cheaper. I'd buy a 2.2GHz Northwood in a heartbeat if it wouldn't been under $450USD. Being a teenager, I'm on a tight budget. I have to work to make money and that isn't easy because I have school to worry about as well. Oh well, I'll wait 'til the next price cut scheduled in a few weeks.

Intel_inside, before you answer this by bashing me, realize that I am sincerely considering a Northy for my next upgrade. If you start bashing me, I may have to change my plans, :lol: 

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
January 18, 2002 8:28:55 PM

Great ... so he's been lurking around for a year, and suddenly he decides to lower the boom on someone? For all I know, he could have registered a year ago and not have been back here since. I still wouldn't like him insulting me for expressing an opinion.

Have we beat this dead horse long enough yet? lol

<i>There are two theories on arguing with women. Neither one works.</i>
January 18, 2002 8:41:23 PM

Quote:
Have we beat this dead horse long enough yet? lol


Yes

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 18, 2002 9:24:01 PM

this post "good point... except a athlon can't run at 3ghz YOU GOD DAMNED MORON" IS STUPID!!!! ATHLONS CAN!! BE RAN AT 3GHZ I SEE IT ALL THE TIME, GO TO MADONION.com THERE ARE ABOUT 10 or 11 of them registerd on that site. Something should be done about that article! it was absolutly retarted and it didn't even apply to everyone because it was only capable of that clock speeds for few "hand picked" CPUs. STUPID
January 18, 2002 9:40:36 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


take your fud elsewhere... the fact is, if you toss away mhz, the fastest p4 system possible creams the fastest xp system possible. End of story, point final.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I agree with that except I don't like the "cream" in there, the 2.2's actualy don't cream athlons, but they are better. But when it comes to price/performance ratio theres no comparison. Athlons take it all the way, and overall I think they are better for games too, considering they can take advantage of both SSE and 3dNOW2 extenstions
January 18, 2002 10:14:46 PM

In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have we beat this dead horse long enough yet? lol



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes

Quarter Pounder Inside


I think the only hourse we need to beat here is FATBURGER!!! he is realy getting on my nerves acting all high and might just because all he does all days is sit on his but posting at the THG. Ooooo he has been on the THG for a long time, he must know more about computers then everyone else. Well gentlemen it doesn't work that way, just because someone is a newbie does not make them stupid in anyway except for the fact that they don't sit arround posting all day like other people. please don't make a contrast of someones knowedge because they are a newbie. Its obsurd and so was that last article on P4s
January 18, 2002 10:41:19 PM

The "horse" we were talking about was my response to zer0, not this thread in general (at least that's what I was talking about).

Quote:
please don't make a contrast of someones knowedge because they are a newbie


When have I said you didn't know what you were talking about? Nobody has.

I have disagreed with what you said, but I don't think you're completely ignorant.


As for your being a newbie, that is a handicap for you, and I'll tell you why. Your very first post is to complain about an article. Do you have a valid point? Absolutely. But it starts you off on the wrong foot.
You've shown you're not just a troll just spewing nonsense. We've had quite a few of those, which is why that's why I (and others, I'm sure) thought that's what was going on. Obviously that was a wrong perception. If you have seen other posts about articles/reviews (people that make one post and then never come back to answer questions), you would know why people reacted the way they did at first.


Just in case you were wondering, use <quote>Insert what they said here</quote> for quoting. Just replace the <> in my example with []. There's more markup in the FAQ if you want.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 18, 2002 10:42:21 PM

Quote:
ATHLONS CAN!! BE RAN AT 3GHZ I SEE IT ALL THE TIME, GO TO MADONION.com THERE ARE ABOUT 10 or 11 of them registerd on that site.


That’s absurd. I’m willing to bet good money that there are no Athlon XPs running at 3Ghz anywhere on earth.
Please provide a link to the overclocking results that you have claimed.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
January 19, 2002 1:55:37 AM

I love a good sparring bout. Better than the Saturday afternoon westerns.

<b><font color=blue>~scribble~</font color=blue></b> :wink: <A HREF="http://www.ud.com/home.htm" target="_new">Help cure cancer.</A>
January 19, 2002 1:58:32 AM

I'm not bashing you.. I agree that the northwood is expensive, especially in canada. But this was a thread about performance, and right now northwood is the highest possible performer a person can get.

<i>The devil's advocate</i>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 19, 2002 4:31:57 AM

well now i dun see his otehr account replying and notice the way taylanator replies is teh same hahahaahha
few posts at a ttime

Can anyone teach me how to overclock time? I need more of it for 2002!
January 19, 2002 4:49:25 AM

Quote:
Do you think a CPU with a 1000MHz FSB and a multiplier of 3 will perform the same as a CPU with a 10MHz FSB and a multiplier of 300?

The processor will perform the same, but it will have more bandwidth available to it if it were to have the 1000MHz FSB. This would allow it to fetch data more quickly. However, if your RAM were running at 10MHz (asynchronously, or with a 1/100 divider on the 1000MHz FSB system), then both systems would perform identically.

For example, a Pentium 4 with an i850 chipset that is running its RAM with a 3x multiplier on a 533MHz FSB (RAM at PC800 speeds) would be overclocked 33% without any real benefit from the added bandwidth of the FSB. An otherwise identical Pentium 4 running at a 400MHz FSB with a 4x multipler on the RAM (PC800 speeds), but with a multiplier set 33% higher, would be overclocked the same 33% as the first system, with nearly identical performance. The processor does not care whether you increase the multiplier or the FSB. It just cares about the resulting clockspeed.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 19, 2002 7:57:18 AM

Quote:
ATHLONS CAN!! BE RAN AT 3GHZ I SEE IT ALL THE TIME

dude give it up please. why is it after every few posts you make, you see an athlon that goes 300mhz higher than before? first it was "i've seen athlons@ 2400mhz", then it was "dude theirs tons of people running them at 2700mhz". and now they've reached 3 ghz?

[insert philosophical statement here]
January 19, 2002 8:27:50 AM

sounds like some of the posts ive read on www.storagereview.com
i.e. "your dream system"

AMD MinaturePony XP2Gazillon+
1 billion octuple pumped FSB
PC1000000 QDR sdram, quad channel
NvidATI Geradeion 27.
4x100Terabyte 100,000rpm scsi hard drives in raid 0
10000x dvd/cd/fluro-optical drive
1000x RW dvd/cd/fluro.
3.5" 1.44Mb floppy ;) 
ISA SB16 sound card ;) 


The lack of thermal protection on Athlon's is cunning way to stop morons from using AMD. :) 
January 19, 2002 10:45:15 AM

The guys @ TomsHardware can't even benchmark properly darnit. God damn even with the Celeron 1.3GHz vs Duron 1.2GHz. Damn they really make the P4 @ 3.0GHz look bad. BUT IT ISN'T.

GamerzCitadel.com
January 19, 2002 3:03:47 PM

Quote:
I was shocked to see that the P4 running 50% faster performs only 10-20% better, at best.

Linearity is a property of the chosen benchmark, not the processor. A 3Ghz Pentium4, or any other processor, is 50% faster than a 2GHz dito; no more, and no less.

In lame Mp3 the increase in performance when increasing the frequenzy by 50% is about 50%. That means two things. One is that the process is very CPU-intensive, and that the programmers made a great job programming the application so that this linearity shows up in real life benchmarks.

The framerate in quake 3 didn't benefit that much from a 50% faster (internally) cpu. But look at this:
Ahtlon XP@1333 187.7fps
Athlon XP@1666 200.0fps
Pentium 4@1400 180.2fps
Pentium 4@1700 193.9fps

So, the AXP in the midteen-range is a processor that gives 11% higher performance when raising the frequency by 25%.
the Pentium 4 in the midteen-range is a processor that gives 8% higher performance when raising the frequency by 21%.
Feel free to calculate the scaling of the theoretical PRXXXP+ processor if you dare.

Quote:

It is obvious that an Athlon running at 3 ghz would (and will) absolutely destroy a P4 at 3 ghz.

Yes, I would bet on that too, but how about a PR3000@2333Mhz?
January 19, 2002 4:14:01 PM

LOL, still has the floppy drive.

[insert philosophical statement here]
January 19, 2002 4:38:16 PM

oh bla, you people are so dumb some times, the athlons don't realy go to 3ghz the go at 3000 pr and higher, and they beat p4's at 3ghz, trust me I'm an overclock nerd. I know what kind of cooling system they had on that P4 and let me tell you something, their not easy to get and they run about as much as 500 dollars plus the cost of a northwood= about 1000 dollars just for a CPU that doesn't run much faster then current CPU's. Bottlenecks or NO bottlenecks, No matter if components are slowing in down or not. It runs like crap for everything you have to do to it ro run that fast. And someone said that the P4 is limited by its slower FSB, and thats why its not performing well, I thought you guys were the same ones to say that the "what if" game was dumb. But you said IF the P4 had a higher bus speed it would be better, well, what IF an Athlon was clocked a over 2333mhz (as shown on madonion.com) came up aginst it? the point is we can't play the "what if" game anymore and just admit that all excusses behind, the P4 sucked. That is a fact. No matter the variables, it blew
January 19, 2002 4:53:13 PM

"... oh bla, you people are so dumb some times, the athlons don't realy go to 3ghz the go at 3000 pr and higher, and they beat p4's at 3ghz, trust me I'm an overclock nerd. ..."

AMD hasn't released any Athlon 3000+. The current Palomino cores seems to max out at around 2GHz from the 3DMarks 2001 benchmark results I've seen at MadOnion.com.
January 19, 2002 5:40:50 PM

maxed out? what would you think a k6-2 would "max out" at? try 1600mhz, no one thought it could be done, but go to madonion.com and you will find it, he has it geared up with a rage furry maxx overclocked to 300mhz core on each chip. The "max" is higher than you think, they might not have done it yet, but it is very possible to overclock them past 2000mhz, just liek they said the duron with the morgan core can't be overlcocked past 1.1, well, once again madonioners have proved them wrong, there are some 1800mhz duron chips at madonion.com. Take a look.
January 19, 2002 5:45:36 PM

and quit picking out little phrases I say, its pissing me off, just look at the bigger picture, at what I'm realy trying to say. You know I started this entire thing, do you realize that? there is a reason why its still going, because people agree with what I'm trying to say and yet you people keep picking apart little things I say and are totaly missing the point. Please don't comment anymore on my "technical mistakes" its realy getting annoying. Oh and quit making fun of my grammer and crap, its so besides the point. You are just proving to me and everyone else that you have nothing better to comment on. Theres no excuse for an article like that from such a respectable new site.
January 19, 2002 6:11:18 PM

The results for the 3DMarks 2000 scores have been faked by people before. This is a known problem.
January 20, 2002 4:12:51 AM

best ive seen EVER is 2200 Mhz for an XP1800+...
of course, thats using some 2.20V with liquid Nitrogen at -170C

The lack of thermal protection on Athlon's is cunning way to stop morons from using AMD. :) 
January 20, 2002 4:40:13 AM

well you know, you guys got me this time, I looked again and I can't find any past 2200mhz on madonion, they must have been fake like whats his face said. My bad, but still, it doesn't change the fact that if they were to go that fast they would rape the P4, but they don't so I guess technicaly the P4's are faster, but only because of intels agressive marketing and realeasing dates being actualy moved forward. I mean you have to admit, intel is trying their hardest to beat AMD and they are doing it with not that much of a margin, while AMD is taking easy realying on their superior archetecture to save them, it does until intels has 533mhz lead, and it starts to become uninportant on the technology when dealing with brute force of mhz power. Welp, its ben fun talking to ya. What I'm realy doing here is questioning the Validity of the entire article that confuses 90% of the computer people that get on here, especialy to find out that you have to pay a ton extra for the cooling system and all that just to get 20fps more, the whole article is usless and kind makes me want to believe that the THG is turning their heads toward intel and I don't like that, sorry, I just don't, amd is the one with the better chip, just not as fast right now. I am just a little upset with how they say little remarks that just bug me, they almost sound like right wing intel lovers sometimes. But I wont complain anymore, its not like I can realy change anything but I am hoping that mabey they will see my thread and realize that they were a little irrational in the manner in which they presented the article, or even the article as a whole. Welp, its been fun, I appreaciate everyone who has participated in my threads, even though its still about 50/50 but somethings people just can't agree on things.

taylor
January 20, 2002 4:50:51 AM

Quote:
it doesn't change the fact that if they were to go that fast they would rape the P4

If the Pentium 4 were to have a higher IPC it would further 'rape' the Athlons. "What if"s count for nothing...


Quote:
AMD is taking easy realying on their superior archetecture to save them

Who decides which architecture is superior? Frequency is just as important as IPC. A processor with poor frequency scaling is just as bad as a processor with poor IPC.


Quote:
amd is the one with the better chip

That is a matter of opinion. I will take this as your opinion. However, that does not mean it is true.


Quote:
they almost sound like right wing intel lovers sometimes.

What is wrong with liking Intel? In fact, what is wrong with being right-wing anyhow? You would not happen to be a democrat/liberal, would you? Those are the people who love high taxes and money-wasting. At any rate, this is not a political forum. If you want to debate this, point out a political forum and I have no doubt we could have a raging 'discussion' on this.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 20, 2002 5:38:46 AM

ok your just finding something to argue about now, please stop the picking apart of what i say. Those run ons are not complete without the sentence that follows it. thats like me saying : "I am not a homosexual" and you taking out the not. Your ripping apart what I say so you can argue some more. just stop, I want to end this and your "picking apart" insn't helping. Oh and I suppose you will reply to some little phrase I use int this post without looking at the context. Just stop, its just annoying. Thanks
January 20, 2002 5:47:21 AM

Quote:
ok your just finding something to argue about now

If you want me to stop posting counter-points, then stop giving me such incredibly easy points to counter.


Quote:
please stop the picking apart of what i say. Those run ons are not complete without the sentence that follows it.

Point out a single one that has a definition in the quote that is different than its meaning within the context of the full post. There is not a single case of this.


Quote:
Your ripping apart what I say so you can argue some more.

Not really. I am countering the points you are making to show that they are incorrect or just opinion.


Quote:
just stop, I want to end this and your "picking apart" insn't helping.

If you want to end this, then just stop posting. Do you see the little 'X' in the upper right-hand corner of this window? ...

-Raystonn





= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
!