Instability problems!

[Guest]

I've been having major problems with my PC since I got it. It crashes very frequently, ie applications crashing back to the desktop, games crashing, sometimes it even reboots itself.. you know the score... classic blue screen!!

Well, i've tried everything to figure out what is wrong. I first thought it was the processor overheating but at 50deg at the most, it can't be that(my mates got the same spec PC and his CPU is roughly the same temp). I then thought it may be a faulty HD so I installed a new one, same problems! I've tried a different graphics card, sound card etc to no avail. I've tried installing WinXP, ME, 98 and I get the same for each OS. I've even tried a different IDE cable and tried both IDE ports!

Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that it must be the CPU or the motherboard. Does anyone have any ideas? Are there any good diagnostic programs I can download? I'm really at a loose end now and am getting annoyed with it, so any help will be greatly appreciated.

SPEC: Athlon 1.4ghz, Abit KG7-Lite, Geforce 2MX 400 64mb, IBM 40gb HD, SB Live! Value.

I'm a bomb disposal technician... if you see me running, try and keep up!

 

[Raystonn]

This is likely due to your use of a motherboard with a Via chipset. It is unfortunate that AMD continues to license Via to create chipsets when it puts forth such buggy products.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

 

[Guest]

But my mate has the same motherboard as me and his is fine. Have I just been unlucky to get a duff board?

I'm a bomb disposal technician... if you see me running, try and keep up!

 

[Raystonn]

That is likely the case. Via chipsets have an extremely high rate of errors, but not all of them are faulty. Additionally, they are extremely sensitive to the components you add to your system. Most notably, there are very bad issues with Via chipsets and the SB Live. But even with the most conservative peripheral cards, you still run into problems. The worst of it is the data corruption issue on hard drives. You can install the latest 4-in-1 drivers for your Via chipset, but this is a hardware bug and you may not be able to get rid of it 100%.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

 

[AMD_Man]

I disagree with Raystonn. This doesn't sound like a VIA bug. Sorry, Raystonn, but I have more experience with VIA/AMD stuff than you do. This sounds to me like bad RAM. VIA does make buggy chipsets but not in terms of crashing/freezing/games not working. In fact, I can guarantee you it's not a VIA bug. The top two possiblities are RAM and the PSU!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[Raystonn]

You are welcome to disagree with me...
There is always the possibility of having a power supply that is insufficient or having buggy RAM. The Via chipset though is the most common cause of such problems as the Blue Screen of Death. To help rule out bad RAM or a bad PSU, we will have to get more information. DaveJM: What power supply are you using? What is the wattage rating on it? How much and what kind of RAM are you using? Have you tried swapping in different RAM, perhaps from a friend?

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

 

[Crashman]

Congrats. I gave up the fight almost a year ago, and when ask to detail the problems I've seen usually tell people to look at my post from Dec-Feb a year ago. I'll gladly pass the tourch to you for explaining the details.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?

 

[tlaughrey]

This really doesn't sound like a chipset issue. A bad motherboard perhaps, but not the chipset. I'd agree with AMD_Man, it sounds more like bad RAM or a bad PSU.

And Ray, since when did you become an expert on VIA chipsets for AMD processors?

<i>There are two theories on arguing with women. Neither one works.</i>

 

[Kelledin]

I keep hearing about memtest86 (don't know where to get it, as I don't use it), a decent proggie for testing memory. For testing your power supply, I'd suggest you get a copy of <A HREF="http://mbm.livewiredev.com/" target="_new">Motherboard Monitor</A> and have it log your voltages over an extended time. If you have erratic voltage rails, chances are you have an insufficient power supply.

I personally doubt the motherboard is causing this. The Abit KG7 is a pretty solid board.

<i>If a server crashes in a server farm and no one pings it, does it still cost four figures to fix?

 

[Atolsammeek]

Dude stop with the Sound blaster live. Wrong Mine has work great. And I agree with the other two. Most Problems I seen are from the ATi/g450 Video card. But I can t say that always ture. frist amd 700 I had the ATi work great. But both mother boards Ran the sound blaster Live.

 

[Matisaro]

The via issue does not appear on boards with a non via northbridge, or boards with the new kt266a chipset.


He has an amd760 northbridge mobo, his issue is NOT the via issue.


Also, intel has motherboards made by via, why do you insinuate that amd somehow allows via to make its motherboards? The new via/windowsxp/det 23.11 issue affects via mobos for even pentium cpus? are you going to blame that on intel for them "allowing" via to keep making buggy chipsets for their cpus?

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!

 

[Matisaro]

This is likely due to your use of a motherboard with a Via chipset. It is unfortunate that AMD continues to license Via to create chipsets when it puts forth such buggy products.

Guess its unfortunate that intel lets via make chipsets for their products as well then?

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!

 

[Guest]

I've got a 300W PSU and i've got 256mb unregistered DDR ram. I thought it may be the RAM but ive used my RAM in another PC and it is fine, even after prolonged use.

mmm...I could perhaps get a PSU from my Dad and try that...

I'm a bomb disposal technician... if you see me running, try and keep up!

 

[phsstpok]

Try these steps.

1. Check the specs on the power supply. Tell us the wattage and the current ratings for +3.3, +5, and +12 volts. (28 amps, 28 amps, and 14 amps, repectively, are good. Higher is better).

Regarding power, I recommend getting a copy of Motherboard Monitor 5. Set up the log mode and use it during your testing. You can later check the log. Make sure your +3.3 and +5 volt readings don't drop too low. The +3.3 reading usually won't vary much but +5 volt might. On the latter, a 0.10 volt drop is OK. 0.15 volt is starting to get too low. 0.25 volt is serious. I'd be leary if the 3.3 volt line goes at all below 3.3.

2. Download the latest AMD 760/761 chipset drivers from AMD and install them. Test the system.

3. Test for issues with the SB Live card. First, remove it and see if 3D games now run without crashes. If the system is stable then you have found one source of your problems.

Fixing it can be difficult. Try moving the card to a different PCI slot but first do step 4.

If you use the soundcard for DOS applications then you may need to reserve an IRQ and a DMA channel in your BIOS. If you don't use it for DOS applications then you can just disable 16-bit emulation. However, these are just sound issues. Tackling them can wait until you resolve stability problems.

4. In your BIOS disable an legacy ports that you know you won't need. These may include the PS/2 mouse port, the parallel port, and two serial ports. For each one of these that you can disable you will free up one IRQ. This may help with stability.

5. Check for IRQ conflicts and IRQ sharing. With Win 9X/ME, an nVidia card and NIC's usually don't like to share with anything else. Sometimes modems don't like to share but it depends on the modem and with what device the modem shares an IRQ.

6. I don't think you have a heat issue but you can easily check this. Open the case and use a room or desk fan to blow air in. If the system is now stable then you do have a heat issue.

<b>We are all beta testers!</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 01/21/02 12:13 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[khha4113]

When I changed my TBird 1000C to run at 133MHz FSB, I had the same sympton as yours, I found out that I forgot to change <b><font color=red>FSB Rate</b></font color=red> (CPU:SDRAMCI) from <b>default</b> 3:3:1 (100FSB, 100RAM, 33PCI that caused my AGP and PCI cards run at overclocked frequencies 88.7 and 44.3MHz respectively) to 4:4:1 (133/133/33). I never had problem ever since (KG7-RAID).
BTW, check your RAM's settings for correct timing.

Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.

 

[lagger]

memtest86 ... http://www.teresaudio.com/memtest86/#download8

<b><font color=blue>Computers run on smoke, I let the smoke out of mine and it quit working </b> </font color=blue>

 

[o1die]

When I had problems like your's, I installed the slower nvidia generic driver off their website. I didn't even bother to remove the faster version that came with my gainward card. The combination of the 2 drivers worked fine.

 

[Raystonn]

Guess its unfortunate that intel lets via make chipsets for their products as well then?

Well now you have hit on it... Intel does <b>not</b> license Via to create chipsets for the Pentium 4. This is why there is a lawsuit in regards to Via's chipset. They are not licensed.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

 

[Matisaro]

A case intel will most likely loose. Via makes p4 boards, and most likely they will continue to make them, if amd had tried to sue them into submission they would have been rejected by the mobo manufacturers. Not very good buisness sense, but im sure when amd has 80% of the market they will become a giant juggernaut and sue all who defy them like the current juggernaut.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!

 

[Guest]

I looked on the PSU which is 300W and it shows these reading:-

+5V - 30A
+12 - 10A
-5 - 0.5A
-12V - 0.8A
+3.3 - 14A
+5 VSB - 2A

Here is the log i've done from Motherboard monitor 5:-

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Total number of readouts: 238 CPU Speed: 1402 MHz |
|Running from: 1/21/02 11:55:29 AM till: 1/21/02 12:35:13 PM |
+-----------------------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|Sensor | Current | Low | High | Average |
+-----------------------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|Sensor 1 | 0° C | 0° C | 0° C | 0° C |
|Sensor 2 | 0° C | 0° C | 0° C | 0° C |
|Sensor 3 | 0° C | 0° C | 0° C | 0° C |
|Core 0 | 1.79 V | 1.79 V | 1.79 V | 1.79 V |
|Core 1 | 2.64 V | 2.64 V | 2.64 V | 2.64 V |
|+3.3 | 3.42 V | 3.42 V | 3.44 V | 3.42 V |
|+5.00 | 4.86 V | 4.81 V | 4.86 V | 4.85 V |
|+12.00 | 12.19 V | 12.19 V | 12.37 V | 12.19 V |
|-12.00 | 0.00 V | 0.00 V | 0.00 V | 0.00 V |
|-5.00 | 0.00 V | 0.00 V | 0.00 V | 0.00 V |
|Fan 1 | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM |
|Fan 2 | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM |
|Fan 3 | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM |
+-----------------------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+

I'm a bomb disposal technician... if you see me running, try and keep up!

 

[phsstpok]

Sorry I made a mistake (which I have corrected) in my previous post. I said percentage drops I meant volts. 0.10 volt drop for the +5 volt line is OK. 0.15 volt is starting to get too low and 0.25 volt is too low (in my opinion).

Your power supply specs look good but your snapshot shows +5 volts is alread down to 4.86 volts presumably at idle.

In motherboard monitor you should see an option for "Interval Log". Enable this and set it for a .HTML file on your desktop. Set the interval for 10 seconds.

You also have not set the temperature sensors. If you have a Via southbridge then select the Via sensors 1 through 3 for sensors 1 through 3.

Afterwards run some tests like a 3D game. Critical reading will be logged in the log file which you just established. Take a look at it and look at the maximum temperatures and minimum voltages. This may help you/us diagnose your problems.

<b>We are all beta testers!</b>

 

[Guest]

Thanks a lot, i'll update my settings and run the log when I get home from work tonight.
Regarding the +5 volts, it is indeed 4.86 or there abouts at idle and has never been up to 5 at all which may be a concern.
I'm also getting a new PSU from my Dad so i'll be able to try this and see what happens.

ps. Thanks for the help guys, its really appreciated, I was almost gonna throw the thing out of the window at one stage! Well, I still might!


<i><b>--I'm a bomb disposal technician... if you see me running, try and keep up!--</i></b>

 

[Guest]

I checked out the FSB Rate and it was set to 4:4:1 already. Cheers anyway, at least I know what that option means now.
As they say, you learn something new every day!

<i><b>--I'm a bomb disposal technician... if you see me running, try and keep up!--</i></b>

 

[Guest]

I've been using a new PSU and my system is now really stable! It hasn't crashed once..touch wood!

Thanks for all your help guys..its been a good learning exercise so it was well worth it, thanks!

<i><b>--I'm a bomb disposal technician... if you see me running, try and keep up!--</i></b>

 

[Guest]

Something should really be done about these crappy PSU's. People buying a budget pc (regardless, amd or intel) are very likely to end up with an el cheapo, lightweight, underrated PSU that will either last for a few monts MAX, or will not even allow your system to work properly at all.


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =