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does washing your hands discharge static electric

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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 23, 2002 7:20:32 PM

heard that this works too as the water is grounded in a sense. any opinions as to the truth of this?
January 23, 2002 7:40:19 PM

But you have to wipe your hands, do you? It would generate static charges.

:smile: Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.
January 23, 2002 7:48:28 PM

No, it's not true at all. Also, discharging the static isn't the only prevention, it's best to keep yourself grounded the entire time you're working on your computer.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 23, 2002 8:23:07 PM

is that a joke?
January 23, 2002 8:26:35 PM

No, it's not. You could easily create more static (shuffling your feet, for instance) when working on your computer.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 23, 2002 8:32:55 PM

oh sorry, I mean washing hands to discharge static electric.
a b à CPUs
January 23, 2002 8:37:17 PM

I never ground myself.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
January 23, 2002 8:41:05 PM

Oh, you were talking to the first poster. No, I don't think that was a joke either.

Neither do I, Crash. But I might as well help out other people, otherwise they'll just complain about their broken stuff.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 23, 2002 9:07:03 PM

im always touching my case.

....hang on....
that came out ALLLLL wrong *grin*

well u know what i mean :) 

The lack of thermal protection on Athlon's is cunning way to stop morons from using AMD. :) 
January 23, 2002 9:34:20 PM

If the taps (fossets to the yanks) are metal, touch them. That'll discharge the static to earth (ground to the yanks).

:smile:

:cool: <b><font color=blue>The Cisco Kid</font color=blue></b> :cool:
January 23, 2002 9:39:16 PM

you don't need to go as far as wash your hands, just touch a piece of metal and you will be fine.

<i>Hi I am from Canada, I don't use amd cause they melt my igloo eh.</i>
January 23, 2002 9:57:22 PM

Ahem [cough]. What did I just say?

:cool: <b><font color=blue>The Cisco Kid</font color=blue></b> :cool:
January 23, 2002 10:03:32 PM

The metal has to be grounded, many people think touching their cases will remove static, but unless its still plugged in.(which contrary to popular misbelief is not a bad idea) the charge will not ground, and you will still have static charge.


Lesson, always work on your pc with the psu plugged in.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 23, 2002 10:07:35 PM

sometimes i even work on my PC when its still running! :) 
typically disconnecting fans, fiddling with cables.
risky stuff :) 

The lack of thermal protection on Athlon's is cunning way to stop morons from using AMD. :) 
January 23, 2002 10:16:53 PM

Mat is right, holding a piece of unconnected metal will not work, as there is no place for the electricity to go.

Fatty's Tip of the Day:
When working in your computer while it is plugged in, make sure "Keyboard Power On" is disabled. Good way to accidentally turn on your computer and fry your Tbird after removing your heatsink. Just ask Kyle over at HardOCP. He learned that the hard way.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 23, 2002 10:31:03 PM

Do people actually use the keyboard power on function?

For some reason pushing a button on the tower and seeing the lights just puts me at ease.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 23, 2002 10:37:11 PM

I don't know how true, or not it is, but I'm guessing the logic is: tap water is hardly pure and fairly conductive, and since the taps themselves are grounded, then there is your path to ground. Makes sense to me.
January 23, 2002 10:38:47 PM

Some people do I guess, no idea why.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 23, 2002 10:47:09 PM

Tap to pipe. Pipe to ground. Simple. Some water pipes are used for earthing for kitchen applicances.

Same happens if you touch a radiator in your house.

:cool: <b><font color=blue>The Cisco Kid</font color=blue></b> :cool:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 23, 2002 11:04:16 PM

Yeah, I guess that is what I really meant.

Just have to comment. It's funny, do you redcoats really call us yanks.

Radiators eh? I think they disallowed those on the mayflower for intellectual property copyright reasons.

Heh, J/K around BTW.
January 23, 2002 11:12:51 PM

I don't either, Althought i Fried an IDE controller once.

Tom's Hardware Tested... Buyer Approved!!
January 23, 2002 11:26:18 PM

ROFL!

No they don't. I just used that word because [sigh], Americans is a longer word.

:cool: <b><font color=blue>The Cisco Kid</font color=blue></b> :cool:
January 24, 2002 1:56:50 AM

I wouldn't worry too much about static. I've never fried anything, and I definately don't practice safe handling techniques.
January 24, 2002 2:52:03 AM

yeah - a lot of non Amricans call Americans yanks. Not in a bad way, just do...

Radiators may not work as they are invariably painted and so not a true earth/ground.

Water pipes in a newer building are fine, but beware very old buildings (in the UK) as their water pipes were often lead. Also make sure the water system is setup as a ground, since often new buildings are fed via plastic mains water feeds and lose the natural earthing ability. Such buildings need to have specification to deliberately earth the water system somewhere.

-* <font color=red> !! S O L D !! </font color=red> *-
To the gentleman in the pink Tutu
January 24, 2002 3:54:18 AM

Waste pipes are plastic, but mains pipes are copper.

:cool: <b><font color=blue>The Cisco Kid</font color=blue></b> :cool:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 24, 2002 7:54:42 AM

I'm no electrician, but I think thats what most residential codes rely on around here, the water feeds being grounded. I think, again not sure, that you can safely/reliably use that ground for residential stuff.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by knewton on 01/24/02 01:58 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 24, 2002 9:39:12 AM

Mine are grounded, but by the time I'd walked back on the carpet from the kitchen, Im sure I would have"charged up" again, I'm also not overcareful when it comes to static, but I normall do work on the pc with it plugged in (and often turned on, lol u ever hit a spinning fan with a screwdriver?!!) I am a BIT careful, i.e. I wont work on a mobo on the carpet, I'll put it on my desk (wood).
As for "yanks", yes, here in uk we do call Americans yanks, not in an offensive way at all, in fact I dont even know why!!


If they squeeze olives to get olive oil, how do they get baby oil?
January 24, 2002 12:02:27 PM

<font color=blue>"heard that this works too as the water is grounded in a sense. any opinions as to the truth of this?"</font color=blue>

Absolutely not!

Static electricity is a result of a difference of potential (voltage) between 2 bodies. So let's assume that washing did give you a "zero" potential. As you reach for the towel, you are changing your body capacitance, which changes your potential. Lift your leg to take a step, your potential changes yet again. Now, lets assume that you are still at zero potential. If the device you plan to work with is not at zero potential, then static discharge will occur.

Static discharge will occur even if you ground yourself to a water pipe. If the device you are working on does not have a dedicated earth ground, it WILL NOT be at zero potential, and static discharge will occur.

The only way to prevent static discharge is to have the 2 bodies at the SAME potential. Wear a wrist strap, and connect it to a ground point ON THE DEVICE you are working on. This way, you and the device are at the same potential, and no static discharge will occur.

Humans cannot feel static discharge under 50,000 volts. Just because we cannot feel it doesn't mean it is not happening. A discharge as small as 1000v can damage a chip. Perhaps not destroy it, but change its characteristics slightly, and certainly shorten its life. Don't forget, you cannot feel these discharges. As chips get smaller (.13 micron now), it takes less to damage them.

Does that CPU no longer overclock like it once did? Damaged gates, but not destroyed, will degrade the performance of a chip until it no longer operates properly.

Not "grounding" yourself to the device you are working on will definetely cause small amounts of damage to the components, and shorten the life span of the device. It is an accident waiting to happen.

<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 24, 2002 6:34:13 PM

OK, but one could also create all of your conditions for electronics safety by washing one hand while working on the plugged in PC with the other, assuming low resistance water, and properly grounded taps and power outlets. So if that is true then it has to be true that washing your hands will allow any body static charge to discharge. But who would do that?

Personnaly I just touch my plugged in case alot, and handle stuff with care.
January 24, 2002 6:52:19 PM

Touching your case does NOT discharge static electricity unless it's plugged in and grounded. It DOES however make sure the static charge in you and the case are the same. It's not the static electricity that gets ya, it's the discharge.

I personnally like to pee on my computer before I work on it. It fixes any static problems and generally just lets the computer know who's boss. Ya never really have any problems after that.
January 24, 2002 6:54:34 PM

Quote:
I personnally like to pee on my computer before I work on it. It fixes any static problems and generally just lets the computer know who's boss. Ya never really have any problems after that.


ROFL

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 24, 2002 6:58:37 PM

ever hit a spinning fan with a screwdriver?!!

Sometimes, just to get one to shut up. One of my old power supplies would sound pretty quiet for a while if I would just shove it in the fan a couple times after it was up to speed.
January 24, 2002 7:15:24 PM

I was trying to find a loud fan once and I couldn't tell if this one was spinning so I held the back of my hand up to it to feel for airflow...the sumbitch caught the back of my knuckle and pulled in about a 1/2 inch strip of skin before I could yank my hand away.

I smacked it with a hammer a few times and it hasn't really made a sound since. If you have noisy fans I would recommend this approach minus the profuse bleeding.

Oh...and in reference to my previous post. Don't pee on your computer when it's plugged in. I lost a kidney the last time. Spose that's why we have two huh?
January 24, 2002 7:57:20 PM

Fingers aren't the only things that can get caught in fans.



<b>We are all beta testers!</b>
January 24, 2002 10:55:12 PM

ROFLROFLROFL
THIS THREAD IS HILLARIOUS...
whoops, caps got stuck on, sorry.
cant be bothered changing it though :) 

ive stuck a finger in a fan too... it was fun.
it was an 80mm pabst @3600rpm... fotunately not my 80mm delta @5200!

also had a long strip of paper get sucked into a fan.. messy :) 

The lack of thermal protection on Athlon's is cunning way to stop morons from using AMD. :) 
January 25, 2002 6:04:32 AM

Quote:
Humans cannot feel static discharge under 50,000 volts. Just because we cannot feel it doesn't mean it is not happening. A discharge as small as 1000v can damage a chip. Perhaps not destroy it, but change its characteristics slightly, and certainly shorten its life. Don't forget, you cannot feel these discharges. As chips get smaller (.13 micron now), it takes less to damage them.



Some comments, seeing as I work in the semiconductor field.

A: he is right, a static charge capable of damaging an ic can be had way below human feeling threshold.
B: the damage from the static is to the gate dielectric ONLY, thus the shift to .13micron or any line size for that matter has no effect in itself, thinner gates would make static damage more possible however.
C:Static charges cannot shorten the life of an ic(in any way I know of) they either do blow the gate dielectric, or they do not, there is no try.(yoda joke, sue me :)  )

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 26, 2002 2:15:13 AM

At an electrical engineering seminar I attended about 15 years ago, there was a session on static discharge and the effect it has on semiconductor components. To demonstate how static degrades components, they placed a transistor (with a wrist strap) in a device that measured the leakage current between the emitter and the collector. They then removed the transistor, and passed it around to a couple of people, no wrist strap. The transistor was then placed back in the device and the leakage current was measured. It had increased by tenfold. The transistor still worked, but its operating characteristics had changed, though still in spec.

While this was a discreet transistor, I assume that similiar effects would happen with chips, especially as the components are that much smaller.

Another part of the demo measured the static potential on a body. Even when seated, simply moving your arm generated enough static to damage a device.

It was a very effective demo, and taught me the importance of a wrist strap. The only time I do not use a wrist strap is when I work on a device that has tubes. Anyone remember what they are?

<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
January 26, 2002 3:10:17 AM

The gates on a transistor are so thin their leakage is already rather high(given the current levels) if you damage the gate dielectric even slightly it will result in a transistor failure. I do realize that there may be instances where damage occurs but not failure, but given the tight specifcations of the gateox this occuring is rare.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
!