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P4 SUCKY!!! I told you so?

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January 29, 2002 7:52:55 PM

What the hell people? No one agreed with me that the P4's performance was bad until this article, I tried to tell people that it did horrible for how much faster it was (mhz) butt none of my AMD buddies where there. What happend? Now it looks like everyone is agreeing that the P4 did very poor.

But this is PERFECT!!! I'm not sure if some of you remember but I started this whole thing about the p4 with my original P4 SUCKY!!! thread and it paid off. I would like to thank everyone that participated in my thread, I got an e-mail the day before the article was posted from the THG saying that they took in consideration what was said in my thread and agreed that the interpetation was incorrect in some areas and the editor failed to mention things that were originaly in the article. They told me about the article and thanked me.

But I must agree that on the current market, the p4 2.2 is in the lead performance wise. But the average computer comsumer does not want to pay 200 dollars more for a few extra fps.

taylor

More about : sucky told

January 29, 2002 8:10:14 PM

Well pretty much of us were disappointed man, no doubt but it's really your rants that pissed many.
The fact remains that the test was to see how much each processor goes far in OC and I am impressed by the P4. However in performance-wise I could not be more disappointed. But the fact again remains of so many factors that limit this DDR OCed P4 low performing in some areas and high soaring in others. To see that a 1.866 GHZ processor stand up to a 3 GHZ is pretty demeaning but again it's not numbers, it's how much was attained. What, you think I would go buy myself a P4 3GHZ in the future and get similar performance? No way man, until Intel does a base high-performance processor without OCing, we'll talk. And the picture will paint differently once AMD switches to 0.13 so hold on your happiness, it will grow. I'd wish Intel didn't rush the Willamette and make the MHZ comparing so useless now, and we no longer use IPC, because of their need to feed fool customers...sad indeed, they have lost one less customer in the future.

Whatever happened to the powerful P2 days!

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
January 29, 2002 8:13:03 PM

The average consumer will do more with their PC other than games...

__
<font color=blue>My hammer has a bigger Hammer than your hammer.</font color=blue>
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January 29, 2002 8:23:59 PM

thats true but the fact remains that the 2.2 isn't alot better than the xp 2000. And it is for sure not worth the extra 200+ for a 2.2, that is very common thinking amoung the average computer user, I know, because I run a computer store, I see people all the time.
January 29, 2002 8:39:43 PM

Nothing personal, but how about if you forward that email to me? It would help people know that you're not lying about it.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 29, 2002 8:44:37 PM

the average consumer wouldn't get the fastest processor available unless they had alot of money to blow, but power users would be interested, especially since the 2.2 northwood overclocks very well. The 'average' consumer would probably do fine with a p3 500.

<i>Hi I am from Canada, I don't use amd cause they melt my igloo eh.</i>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 29, 2002 8:54:45 PM

Yeah well when you take a p4 1.6A and oc it to 133 fsb you get a hell of a deal.(thats about 2000+ performance at less cost)
January 29, 2002 9:11:59 PM

ok, do you run a store? do you deal with people all day long about computers? have you built hundreds of computers? I don't think so, computers are not a hobby to me, they are my prefesion. I know what people want. And I'm not talking about what the average computer user needs, I'm talking about what they want. They want a very fast computer that doesn't cost a lot. Amd is an obvious solution.
January 29, 2002 9:20:24 PM

<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/fattyburger/email.html" target="_new">Link to the email</A>

I got this quickly from Taylanator after requesting it, and of course haven't tampered the image (except for drawing the red circle to let Taylanator know to change his computer's date/time).

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 29, 2002 9:30:29 PM

oops, this is my experimental computer (the fun one) I was overclocking yesterday and I went a little to far and well, I had to reset the bios, this is a common thing amoung overclockers. lol thanks
January 29, 2002 10:30:28 PM

English, [-peep-]. DO YOU SPEAK IT?!?

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 29, 2002 10:31:38 PM

noooo
ive been to a computer store...
the AVERAGE consumer usually buys

celeron 1 to 1.2Ghz, duron 1 to 1.2Ghz
64 to 256mb ram
20 to 40Gb HDD
integrated, tnt m64, tnt2 or if they are lucky a geforceMX graphics card
50x cdrom
8x burner
win ME or XP.


the AVERAGE consumer doesnt pay anything remotely near top dollar.


The lack of thermal protection on Athlon's is cunning way to stop morons from using AMD. :) 
a b à CPUs
January 29, 2002 11:01:04 PM

I've built over a THOUSAND computers. The average person want's 2GHz, 80GB, 256MB, a 24x CDRW, a 64MB video card (they don't even care what chip, to them a 64MB MX200 is twice as good as a 32MB GTS) and a 56K modem. For $200, including 17" monitor. I sell them a Pentium 200MMX, 2GB hard drive, 32MB system with Windows 95 and no monitor for $200. Most of them don't even fill the hard drive, never notice their computer can't play games, etc. I have only had one disappointed by video card performance, using 2MB PCI cards! About 10% run out of hard drive space and get upgrades. So 90% of them are happy with their systems! The problem is convicing them it's all they need (actually, more than they need) for surfing the web!

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
January 29, 2002 11:05:40 PM

Yes but in his case HE is selling the type of comp, and HE makes sure THE CONSUMER gets not average but the best setting. To him it's AMD, and that's fine and excellent by me. I personally would not run a store selling P4s until I realized it has potential performance and gets better than that. I realize I would receive average users not professionals and they don't overclock, so I make sure I get the best performance for their buck, and so far it's the AMD systems.

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
January 29, 2002 11:38:12 PM

200 more your mad,

here in canada , i looked in a couple of store , the p4 2.2 northwood is about 600$ more that a XP 2000+

1000$ vs ~ 400 $

INTEL IS MAD !
i paid my whole comp 2600 ! i wont pay 1000 for a cpu
January 29, 2002 11:53:09 PM

Dood..calm down, we all know amd is better for the number they give off, but about you running a store and only selling AMD... if I was running a store, it would be because i had to pay the bills, and I'd say more people are intel lovers and would pay the extra dollar for an intel product, giving me more profit. Well just a suggestion.. i say put a intel 2.2ghz or two in your stock and see how fast those things sell and see how much profit ya make my friend. The world still see's intel as the better product, well at least to the people who don't read up on performance charts of cpu's, i'd say 80% of the public

didnt have one of em electronic pens so ill just type my name,<i>CoOoLMaNX</i>
January 30, 2002 12:06:07 AM

To be honest, you'd make better profit with AXPs from my view, as you pay less for the bulk and can sell them at a higher tag while the store next door selling Intel has similar chip but 500$ CDN more. Which store will the user go see?
Besides my local shop whom I favor so much because they chose to stick with AMD ONLY, have been doing so since 5 years running and are still number one. They sell AMD because it's the honest way of showing performance and they do make profit all the time. They are busy, and always sold out of chips and hardware, however just January they began selling Intel for the purpose of competition, but no matter what, when they announced that in their magazine add, they even put a small tip saying: BUY AMD, nevertheless.
Those are my type of people who know the truth and sell the truth, they are my idols!

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
January 30, 2002 12:18:02 AM

please tell me where you work, I'll make a point NOT to go there, since you obviously don't know what you are talking about most of the time. Your non-stop quest to bash intel is hopeless, the truth is out there, we know the benchmarks, we know who wins.

<i>Hi I am from Canada, I don't use amd cause they melt my igloo eh.</i>
January 30, 2002 12:19:19 AM

judging by local shops around here i can say this. the average consumer is going to purchase a computer most likely how he/she does with any other "gadget" in their house: what looks cool and what's the latest. they will get outrageously overpriced and will be none the wiser. it's to be expected though. everyone does it, you don't know too much or everything about a product you want to buy, so what do you do? you fall back and buy the established name. take two nike shoes, one with all the logos on it as usual, the other not one swoosh on it, but the exact same shoe. which do you think will sell more?

happiness is finding a stick of ram in your mail.
January 30, 2002 12:24:10 AM

So, let us see the email headers. I would like Taylanator to provide the email headers, complete with the message ID, server addresses, etc. What we have seen so far can easily be duplicated by anyone.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
January 30, 2002 12:24:15 AM

you go crashy. thats good. BTW do you mean you screw them? or just that they are stupid? lol please tell me that you screw them. lol that would be very funny.

<font color=purple><b>Let us respect each other, so we can all be friends.</b> :wink: </font color=purple>
January 30, 2002 12:27:26 AM

hhhh i had one of those fatburgers today. god they are sooooooo good. mmmmmmmhhh with american chees. mmmm mmmmm mmmm mmm M.

<font color=purple><b>Let us respect each other, so we can all be friends.</b> :wink: </font color=purple>
January 30, 2002 12:31:44 AM

to all of the fuckheads;
you are stupid.

<font color=purple><b>Let us respect each other, so we can all be friends.</b> :wink: </font color=purple>
January 30, 2002 12:52:58 AM

Such language is not deemed an acceptable way of expressing yourself here, please refrain from that useless insult next time before you lose my respect as a fellow techie.

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
a b à CPUs
January 30, 2002 12:59:05 AM

It cost me around $130 to build those machines, my shop get's 10%, that only leaves me $50 profit per unit!
OK, sometimes it only cost me around $100 to build them. Depends on how much equipment is on the scrap systems when I buy them.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
January 30, 2002 2:08:59 AM

Well, I think that all of you are right about what the average user wants, and thats why I do also sell intel Cpu's I have never said that I don't like intel and that I am BIAS against them, as I will say it again intel is in the lead now, that is made clear by the benchmarks, and thats why I have 7 P4 2.0 and 2.2ghz computers in my shop. Its not exactly your hometown computer shop, I currently have 17 computers in my store. 10 of which are AMD. And many more computers in the back. I completely understand that there are people that come in sometimes wanting the best, thats why I have 2.2 ghz computers and I know there are people that want a whole lot for realy cheap, thats why I build AMD computers. To be honest, I do sell more intel computers than AMD, despite how hard I try to tell them that the AMD computers are much more bang for their buck, I'm not going to stop them from buying a computer from me and giving me their money just because I'm not incredibly fond of intel.

Oh and how is anything said from someone with the name "intel inside" supposed to be taken in an unbias way? And please do not cuss in my thread. This post is geared more for the smarter people. Please do not post any replies with an extreemly bias point of view. It is very clear that its split 50/50 about whether buying intle CPU's is worh it. One side thinks their smarter than the other and the other side thinks the same way. I'm on the AMD side but I wont deny intels performace is greater than CURRENT...Amd CPU's. Please don't expect that your OPINION is correct without some rational reason to why. Thank you

taylor
a b à CPUs
January 30, 2002 2:21:18 AM

Did I say anything about Intel Inside or your opinion?

Intel IS usually a bad value, the P4 has worse performance clock for clock than the PIII! But I CAN say ONE thing about Intel systems: People who have owned a few computers during their lifetime have inevitably seen the crappy AMD and Cyrix systems companies like Packard Bell sold, and mistakenly assumed that Intel was the only company to go with. I can sell a PentiumII 300 system faster than a K6-2 450 system. Since I know this, I usually stick it to them for the same price, ~$350. Funny thing, I can build those systems for around $175. But the $200 systems still sell faster.
I also build new systems for custom order, a lot of people ASK about Athlon systems but never come up with the money! Meanwhile those who ask about PIII systems usually have the money ready!
I also repair systems for a local shop, ones that are difficult to diagnose.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
January 30, 2002 2:27:51 AM

Hey man, it's not that I'm not sympathetic to your point of view. I'm no fan of the P4. But you really need to watch the title of your threads, it detracts from your credibility. Specifically, the word "SUCKY" sounds a little juvenile.

You seem to know what you're talking about, and I agree that the P4 is an underperformer. But at least think up a better thread title or people will think you're just a troll.

<i>I made you look. But I can't make you see.</i>
January 30, 2002 2:40:39 AM

I think he ment P4 sake!!!

__
<font color=blue>My hammer has a bigger Hammer than your hammer.</font color=blue>
January 30, 2002 8:35:52 AM

In exactly what benchmark does the overclocked P4 disappoint you, and where?

I think you are disappointed with the P4 in general, be it 1.3GHz willy on SDRAM or 2600A Northwood with RDRAM.

I see nothing unusual in the way the CPUs scale, neither AXP nor P4.
January 30, 2002 8:57:43 AM

Quote:
Nothing personal, but how about if you forward that email to me? It would help people know that you're not lying about it.


Hear hear, me as well.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
January 30, 2002 9:02:47 AM

Quote:
OK, sometimes it only cost me around $100 to build them. Depends on how much equipment is on the scrap systems when I buy them.


Or how many free computer parts people who tend to disagree with you on the forums all the time but still respect and like you decide to mail you for free!

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 30, 2002 1:48:20 PM

I won't buy P4 if I want to upgrade my computer. I must buy AMD 1700+ or 1800+. Yes, P4 2.2 with RDram is faster than AMD, but they are more expensive.
January 30, 2002 3:14:46 PM

Scamtron, what is the reason for your comments? They're both immature and pointless. Unless you have something to contribute, please refrain from commenting.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
a b à CPUs
January 30, 2002 3:28:30 PM

Actually, that includes free parts certain people have supplied me at no cost!

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
January 30, 2002 8:00:17 PM

Its already in a link on fatburgers second post. Oh and I do agree with the fact that my threads titles do sound a little bias, but it is just a joke, I tend to take on traits of my son mark, he is only 11 so he says some weird stuff, lol. Sucky just happends to be one of them. You are right though, I'm sure people think that I'm a troll sometimes, but to be honest I realy don't care what they think, I will be a troll to whatever company offers my customers the best price/performance ratio lol. I wouldn't care if it took 5ghz intel cpus to beat a 2.5ghz athlon, I wouldn't care at all as long as they are around the same price. But the fact is that they are no where close. But that wont stop me from buying them as customers do like intel better (its the commercials and numbers(ghz)). Well, thanks for being a part of a historic thread (even though it was sometimes more name calling than anything else lol) But it did get what I and many others wanted, which was another article with the xp o'cd to make it a little more fair and to show people that the P4 realy did not do as well as people think it did. As we've seen, that P4 was crippled by the DDR ram and other factors. Welp, All of you take care and please don't call names on threads, allthough I have been known to say one everyonce and while, I realy hate it due to the fact that it is utterly childish. Thanks a lot

taylor
January 30, 2002 9:54:31 PM

<i>"You are right though, I'm sure people think that I'm a troll sometimes, but to be honest I realy don't care what they think, I will be a troll to whatever company offers my customers the best price/performance ratio lol."</i>

Absolute BS! One who sells computers should know that to sell the best price/least performance ratio is the best/quickest way to make money. If you sell them a computer with too much performance, how long do you think it will take them to buy another computer from you later on in the future!?! Know how and when to [-peep-] on the customers!!! :lol: 

__
<font color=blue>My hammer has a bigger Hammer than your hammer.</font color=blue>
January 30, 2002 10:17:03 PM

p4 northwood 2.2ghz is also the fastest cpu available right now, anyone who doesn't sell the fastest cpu available just because of 'moral issues' and dislike for intel shouldn't be selling systems at all.

<i>Hi I am from Canada, I don't use amd cause they melt my igloo eh.</i>
January 30, 2002 10:23:19 PM

lol, your comming from a the I want to rip people off point of view. I only sell good systems for cheap, thats one of the reasons my business is doing so well. I don't purposly put things in computers to force users to upgrade, I don't sell a single computer that has less that 256mb of ram. Or less than a 20 GB hard drive. I'm not that kind of seller. I'm not in a hurry to make a hole ton more money. And even if I was I swore that I wouldn't become those absolutly stupid retail computer companies. I hate how they completely rip off their customers. You run your business how you want but as for me I'll run mine with honesty. I have users that call me up to say how much they love their computers, do your customers do that? And with windows xp out, my company is taking advantage of the remote assistance to its fullness. Now we can help our customers without even leaving the store, and we set up a fee service that is 5 dollars an hour for remote assistance. We are loving it at the shop. Its a great way to make a lot of money too.

Hey I have a question for everyone, I am trying to overclock this XP computer from 1.47 to 1.666 and i'm having some problems. I don't have a lot of experience with overclocking but when I go past 1.6 it starts to reset randomly. I know its not a heat problem because its running at only 44 degrees. Is it a voltage problem? What do you think that voltage needs to be?
January 30, 2002 10:25:07 PM

I do sell 2.2's I have 3 of them and 4 2.0 computer systems
January 30, 2002 10:28:38 PM

You always need a regular, average, and performance grade selection available to the customers.

__
<font color=blue>My hammer has a bigger Hammer than your hammer.</font color=blue>
January 30, 2002 10:33:03 PM

Customer can always go to the next computer store. It's a free market.
January 30, 2002 10:43:51 PM

I don't sell the computer in my company. I just build/fix them. Most of the calls that I get are for custom machine orders. I do know that we sell computers faster than we can build them. And no, we don't sell any 486's or anything that out-dated.

__
<font color=blue>My hammer has a bigger Hammer than your hammer.</font color=blue>
January 30, 2002 11:22:07 PM

That is the true honest seller and I idol you for that. I never ever go to the shops that put crap adds where they make mistakes in the names of their products, as it shows they are no professionals (P4 Tualatin???!!). Only when someone sells quality that they are real good fellas and I appreciate the work you do for this dumbed-down community of Joes. I know for one the feeling those customers get from you, as I recall my uncle telling me his brother-in-law complaining his P4 1.6GHZ with 256 SD RAM is slow! (well gee take a hint brother!)
But when someone gets an AXP 1600 with 256 DDR, he gets top notch speeds that no P4 could rival until 2GHZ + with DDR or RD.

Keep up the honest work, that helps this world a bit!

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 31, 2002 1:28:20 AM

I'm a senior account manager for one of the big 3 resellers in the US - the P4 is selling by default because Intel is withdrawing the PIII from everything except mobile.

The customers hate it but none of the OEM's have the balls to do an AMD corporate box right now.

I'm not being disrespectful of the guy that runs a local shop but in the corporate world there are few choices.
people are being forced to adopt the P4 through attrition because there is no alternative that they are comfortable with. By that I mean a mass produced, standardised offering on the AMD platform with a 3yr warranty.

Hopefully if the HP / Compaq merger goes through they'll be big enough to threaten Dell and get the nuts to offer a real AMD based alternative. I doubt it though, they'll just use the volume to leverage price like Dell does.

AMD's corporate inroads depend on the current crop of young, increasingly strident up and coming IT directors.

My bet is that in 3yrs AMD will see some significant inroads, so long as they keep their game up.
January 31, 2002 1:39:15 AM

I actually find that the average consumer (or the dumb rich idiots who live here) go into a shop, and ask for a new comp that costs the same as their previous one. They don't even know what's in it, but when they hear Windows, they think it's top of the line.....I love going into those shops, telling the sales guy I need comp, and acting dumb, then starting to talk about MHz, IPC, vid card performance, etc.:) 

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
January 31, 2002 1:50:28 AM

This was also my thought ever since. Intel is in deep trouble very soon, because we are moving into a world of IT professionals, and that means the most people are gonna be more informed and know what they are buying. Thus if Intel keeps this idea of making low performance to OEMs thinking people will remain that dumb and short-sighted, they will lose later on. AMD has done nothing but good and they are hard-working too. Someone around here told us so, that the team works hard into their CPUs. I beleive that because AMD doesn't just go lying around, they even show graphs comparing the P4 to their machines, which is really gutsy.

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
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