Eberron: DM's get to nerf some players!

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

As the subject line says...

So I'm checking out the latest addition to my collection tonight;
Races of Eberron, and am looking through the newest feats, racial
feats, by the way, that only specific player races can choose, and
come across this gem.

Ancestral Guidance
[Racial]
As an elf of Valenar, the spirit of your patron ancestors guides
your hands and thoughts in times of trouble.

Prerequisite: Elf, region of origin, Valenar

Any time you use an action point to modify a d20 roll, you can
also choose to re-roll a single action die. You must accept the
result of the second roll, even if it is worse than the initial roll.

Special: This benefit represents the favor of your ancestral
spirit. If the DM has determines that you have dishonored or
angered your patron spirit you lose the benefit of this feat until
you have atoned for your actions.

Now is it just me, or does the GM get a free action to railroad
the schmuck who picks this feat... I can see it now...

Player: "I'm going to re-roll my action die on the failed save to
avoid the whirling sphere of blades!"

DM: "Ahhhh. No. Fraid you can't do that."

Player: "Can too! I'm using my Ancestral Guidance Feat."

DM: "When you were back in the Vale of Golden Beer Boughs, you
didn't bow and then drink using both hands at the enchanted stream
of Sangrilla. You pissed off your ancestral spirits then, and they
are not offering you any guidance now. Presuming you manage to
survive the 12d6 of damage from the whirling sphere of blades,
you'll still need to atone for the sacrilege you committed back in
the vale of Golden Beer Boughs before your ancestors will again
guide your hand with their wisdom."

Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of
the many feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that
should be tossed? Especially from Eberron?

Re,
Dirk
56 answers Last reply
More about eberron nerf players
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    John Phillips wrote:

    > "Dirk Collins" wrote
    >>Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of
    >>the many feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that
    >>should be tossed? Especially from Eberron?
    >
    >
    > Looks like the problem is not with the feat...

    Nobody asked you, retread. I asked for other possible problem
    feats from Eberron books that GM's can abuse, so I can take a
    shortcut on the search and fix process. You can get back to me
    when you get your head properly re-wired and/or after you finish
    with your psych counseling when your responses can be useful and
    beneficial for everyone in addition to just yourself.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Sat, 28 May 2005 03:16:16 GMT, Dirk Collins
    <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:

    >As the subject line says...
    >
    >So I'm checking out the latest addition to my collection tonight;
    >Races of Eberron, and am looking through the newest feats, racial
    >feats, by the way, that only specific player races can choose, and
    >come across this gem.
    >
    >Ancestral Guidance
    >[Racial]
    >As an elf of Valenar, the spirit of your patron ancestors guides
    >your hands and thoughts in times of trouble.
    >
    >Prerequisite: Elf, region of origin, Valenar
    >
    >Any time you use an action point to modify a d20 roll, you can
    >also choose to re-roll a single action die. You must accept the
    >result of the second roll, even if it is worse than the initial roll.
    >
    >Special: This benefit represents the favor of your ancestral
    >spirit. If the DM has determines that you have dishonored or
    >angered your patron spirit you lose the benefit of this feat until
    >you have atoned for your actions.
    >
    >Now is it just me, or does the GM get a free action to railroad
    >the schmuck who picks this feat... I can see it now...

    It's just you. This is no different from being a cleric.
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Dirk Collins" wrote

    > John Phillips wrote:
    >
    > > "Dirk Collins" wrote
    > >>Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of
    > >>the many feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that
    > >>should be tossed? Especially from Eberron?
    > >
    > >
    > > Looks like the problem is not with the feat...
    >
    > Nobody asked you, retread.

    Oh yeah, this is honestly the funniest thing I've seen in weeks. Thank you.


    John
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "John Phillips" <jsphillips1@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    news:CzSle.258623$cg1.230746@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    >
    > "Dirk Collins" wrote
    >
    >> John Phillips wrote:
    >>
    >> > "Dirk Collins" wrote
    >> >>Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of
    >> >>the many feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that
    >> >>should be tossed? Especially from Eberron?
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Looks like the problem is not with the feat...
    >>
    >> Nobody asked you, retread.
    >
    > Oh yeah, this is honestly the funniest thing I've seen in weeks. Thank
    > you.

    I don't get it. Does it have something to do with tires?

    --
    ^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishment the scroll,
    I am the Master of my fate:
    I am the Captain of my soul.

    from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> writes
    <snip>
    >Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of the
    >many feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that should be
    >tossed? Especially from Eberron?

    Your daftly confrontational DM?

    --
    Ian R Malcomson
    "Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box"
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Malachias Invictus" wrote
    >
    > "John Phillips" wrote
    > >
    > > "Dirk Collins" wrote
    > >
    > >> John Phillips wrote:
    > >>
    > >> > "Dirk Collins" wrote
    > >> >>Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of
    > >> >>the many feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that
    > >> >>should be tossed? Especially from Eberron?
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > Looks like the problem is not with the feat...
    > >>
    > >> Nobody asked you, retread.
    > >
    > > Oh yeah, this is honestly the funniest thing I've seen in weeks. Thank
    > > you.
    >
    > I don't get it. Does it have something to do with tires?

    Well, either he is calling me an old tire, or he misspelled retard.
    Either way its funny, even if he intended it to be insulting.

    John
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Sat, 28 May 2005 03:16:16 GMT, Dirk Collins
    <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:

    >As the subject line says...
    >
    >So I'm checking out the latest addition to my collection tonight;
    >Races of Eberron, and am looking through the newest feats, racial
    >feats, by the way, that only specific player races can choose, and
    >come across this gem.
    >
    >Now is it just me, or does the GM get a free action to railroad
    >the schmuck who picks this feat... I can see it now...
    >
    How do you stop a GM who really wants to screw a character over?
    >
    >Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of
    >the many feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that
    >should be tossed? Especially from Eberron?

    If you don't trust the GM why play?
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On 28 May 2005 04:25:55 -0700, laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu dared speak
    in front of ME:

    >Dirk Collins wrote:
    >>
    >> Now is it just me, or does the GM get a free action to railroad
    >> the schmuck who picks this feat... I can see it now...
    >
    ><snip>
    >
    >Just curious... what do you do when your (obviously hostile) GM sends a
    >juvenile red dragon (CR 10) at your level 4 party? After, all, the
    >rules say he's entirely within his rights to do so. The DMG says that
    >in a well-constructed adventure, 5% of the encounters are overpowering
    >(CR 5+ above the party).

    You kick it's ass, because dragons are overranked pussies in 3.x
    (At least, that's what I've been told.)
    --
    Address no longer works.
    try removing all numbers from
    gafgirl1@2allstream3.net

    --
    Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
    ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
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  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    >>Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of the many
    >>feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that should be tossed?
    >>Especially from Eberron?
    >
    > Your daftly confrontational DM?

    Winner.
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Alien mind control rays made Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@earthlink.net> write:
    > John Phillips wrote:
    >> "Dirk Collins" wrote
    >>> Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of
    >>> the many feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that
    >>> should be tossed? Especially from Eberron?
    >>
    >> Looks like the problem is not with the feat...
    >
    > Nobody asked you, retread. I asked for other possible problem
    > feats from Eberron books that GM's can abuse, so I can take a
    > shortcut on the search and fix process. You can get back to me
    > when you get your head properly re-wired and/or after you finish
    > with your psych counseling when your responses can be useful and
    > beneficial for everyone in addition to just yourself.

    no, he's pretty spot on.

    'retread'? is that an insult these days?

    --
    \^\ // drow@bin.sh (CARRIER LOST) <http://www.bin.sh/>
    \ // - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    // \ X-Windows: More than enough rope
    // \_\ -- Dude from DPAK
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Dirk Collins wrote:
    > As the subject line says...
    >
    > So I'm checking out the latest addition to my collection tonight; Races
    > of Eberron, and am looking through the newest feats, racial feats, by
    > the way, that only specific player races can choose, and come across
    > this gem.
    >
    > Ancestral Guidance
    > [Racial]
    > As an elf of Valenar, the spirit of your patron ancestors guides your
    > hands and thoughts in times of trouble.
    >
    > Prerequisite: Elf, region of origin, Valenar
    >
    > Any time you use an action point to modify a d20 roll, you can also
    > choose to re-roll a single action die. You must accept the result of the
    > second roll, even if it is worse than the initial roll.
    >
    > Special: This benefit represents the favor of your ancestral spirit. If
    > the DM has determines that you have dishonored or angered your patron
    > spirit you lose the benefit of this feat until you have atoned for your
    > actions.
    >
    > Now is it just me, or does the GM get a free action to railroad the
    > schmuck who picks this feat... I can see it now...
    >
    > Player: "I'm going to re-roll my action die on the failed save to avoid
    > the whirling sphere of blades!"
    >
    > DM: "Ahhhh. No. Fraid you can't do that."
    >
    > Player: "Can too! I'm using my Ancestral Guidance Feat."
    >
    > DM: "When you were back in the Vale of Golden Beer Boughs, you didn't
    > bow and then drink using both hands at the enchanted stream of
    > Sangrilla. You pissed off your ancestral spirits then, and they are not
    > offering you any guidance now. Presuming you manage to survive the 12d6
    > of damage from the whirling sphere of blades, you'll still need to atone
    > for the sacrilege you committed back in the vale of Golden Beer Boughs
    > before your ancestors will again guide your hand with their wisdom."
    >
    > Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of the
    > many feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that should be
    > tossed? Especially from Eberron?

    Two that spring to mind are actually quite overpowered, unless something
    happens to make them screwjob useless feats (or worse) for the PC:

    Nymph's Kiss and Item Familiar

    Nymph's kiss grants a +2 bonus to all Charisma based checks (eight
    different skills, clerical turn undead attempts, and telepathic psionic
    power activation checks, for instance), a +1 bonus to all saves, and +1
    skill point per level. All for one feat. Of course, you need to have
    an "intimate" relationship with a Fey creature in order to take the feat.

    This could mean that if the fey creature dies, or ceases to be Fey, or
    breaks off the relationship, you have just wasted a feat slot until you
    can find another fairy to be intimate with.

    Of course a DM who understands this and has something like that happen
    is being a "prick", so most of the time it won't happen. He might,
    however, cause the fey creature to get captured or in other ways require
    assistance, thereby "inconveniencing" the PC by forcing them to go on an
    adventure. Umm... Except that going on adventures is what the PC would
    have been doing anyway, and he'll likely end up taking his buddies along
    with him, so it's an inconvenience that pretty much... isn't... an
    inconvenience at all, really.

    Item Familiar is worse in some ways. It gives all sorts of powers
    (Alertness feat, ability to enhance the item as a spellcaster with the
    appropriate craft feat, a 10% bonus to all earned experience, etc). One
    of the powers is grants is the ability to "invest" the item familiar
    with skill points, gaining a bonus skill point (which may be used to
    raise the rank of a skill above and beyond what would ordinarily be
    allowed, for example Rank 11 at 7th level) for every three skill points
    "invested". The trick is that these skill points vanish if the item is
    ever lost or broken.

    Permanently.

    Which no given way of ever getting them back.

    So if the item is ever lost or broken, and you have invested most of
    your skill points in it, you end up having a character with very, very
    few skill points (all the bonus XP gained goes bye-bye too). This is
    obviously bad for anyone, and devastating for a rogue or other
    skills-based PC. So devastating it would pretty much make the most
    sense to scrap the PC and make another one.

    These feats sort of remind me of the old WoD's "Hunted" flaw, which you
    could take at up to 10 points or something with their "merits and flaws"
    system. It basically amounted to a 1st level PC being personally hunted
    by an antidiluvian vampire, which meant that the DM either laid the
    smackdown in the first session and killed the PC or had the hunter send
    lesser minions after the PC (and his allies, if they were with him) bit
    by bit as they grew into power -- which is EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS IN A
    CAMPAIGN ANYWAY. Thus, it was either a "poof you're dead" flaw or a
    "free 10 points of merits" flaw.

    Ugh.

    - Ron ^*^
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "John Phillips" <jsphillips1@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    news:bwTle.258787$cg1.173701@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    >
    > "Malachias Invictus" wrote
    >>
    >> "John Phillips" wrote
    >> >
    >> > "Dirk Collins" wrote
    >> >
    >> >> John Phillips wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> > "Dirk Collins" wrote
    >> >> >>Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of
    >> >> >>the many feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that
    >> >> >>should be tossed? Especially from Eberron?
    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >> > Looks like the problem is not with the feat...
    >> >>
    >> >> Nobody asked you, retread.
    >> >
    >> > Oh yeah, this is honestly the funniest thing I've seen in weeks. Thank
    >> > you.
    >>
    >> I don't get it. Does it have something to do with tires?
    >
    > Well, either he is calling me an old tire, or he misspelled retard.
    > Either way its funny, even if he intended it to be insulting.

    I certainly thought so.

    --
    ^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishment the scroll,
    I am the Master of my fate:
    I am the Captain of my soul.

    from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Kaos" <kaos@invalid.xplornet.com> wrote in message
    news:52nh9197p2orogg0e8c8kbrgedgqufttjb@4ax.com...
    > On 28 May 2005 04:25:55 -0700, laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu dared speak
    > in front of ME:
    >
    >>Dirk Collins wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Now is it just me, or does the GM get a free action to railroad
    >>> the schmuck who picks this feat... I can see it now...
    >>
    >><snip>
    >>
    >>Just curious... what do you do when your (obviously hostile) GM sends a
    >>juvenile red dragon (CR 10) at your level 4 party? After, all, the
    >>rules say he's entirely within his rights to do so. The DMG says that
    >>in a well-constructed adventure, 5% of the encounters are overpowering
    >>(CR 5+ above the party).
    >
    > You kick it's ass, because dragons are overranked pussies in 3.x
    > (At least, that's what I've been told.)

    Actually, it is just the opposite.

    --
    ^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishment the scroll,
    I am the Master of my fate:
    I am the Captain of my soul.

    from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Suddenly, drow, drunk as a lemur, stumbled out of the darkness and
    exclaimed:

    > 'retread'? is that an insult these days?
    >

    It sounds like something Fat Albert would call someone.

    --
    Billy Yank

    Quinn: "I'm saying it's us, or them."
    Murphy: "Well I choose them."
    Q: "That's NOT an option!"
    M: "Then you shouldn't have framed it as one."
    -Sealab 2021

    Billy Yank's Baldur's Gate Photo Portraits
    http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2xvw6/
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    John Phillips wrote:

    > Well, either he is calling me an old tire, or he misspelled retard.
    > Either way its funny, even if he intended it to be insulting.

    Not intended to be insulting... When I intend to insult you,
    you'll know it... ...And you still missed the third possibility.

    Re,
    Dirk
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Dirk Collins" wrote

    > John Phillips wrote:
    >
    > > Well, either he is calling me an old tire, or he misspelled retard.
    > > Either way its funny, even if he intended it to be insulting.
    >
    > Not intended to be insulting... When I intend to insult you,
    > you'll know it... ...And you still missed the third possibility.

    That you are just confused? Nope, didnt miss that one.


    John
  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    John Phillips wrote:
    > "Dirk Collins" wrote
    >
    >
    >>John Phillips wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Well, either he is calling me an old tire, or he misspelled retard.
    >>>Either way its funny, even if he intended it to be insulting.
    >>
    >>Not intended to be insulting... When I intend to insult you,
    >>you'll know it... ...And you still missed the third possibility.
    >
    >
    > That you are just confused? Nope, didnt miss that one.

    reread the retread, retard.
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Malachias Invictus wrote:
    > "Kaos" <kaos@invalid.xplornet.com> wrote in message
    > news:52nh9197p2orogg0e8c8kbrgedgqufttjb@4ax.com...
    > > On 28 May 2005 04:25:55 -0700, laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu dared speak
    > > in front of ME:
    > >
    > >>Dirk Collins wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>> Now is it just me, or does the GM get a free action to railroad
    > >>> the schmuck who picks this feat... I can see it now...
    > >>
    > >><snip>
    > >>
    > >>Just curious... what do you do when your (obviously hostile) GM sends a
    > >>juvenile red dragon (CR 10) at your level 4 party? After, all, the
    > >>rules say he's entirely within his rights to do so. The DMG says that
    > >>in a well-constructed adventure, 5% of the encounters are overpowering
    > >>(CR 5+ above the party).
    > >
    > > You kick it's ass, because dragons are overranked pussies in 3.x
    > > (At least, that's what I've been told.)
    >
    > Actually, it is just the opposite.

    Yup. Dragons are deadly.

    Laszlo
  19. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Behold! for Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> spake unto the multitude
    thus:

    >These feats sort of remind me of the old WoD's "Hunted" flaw, which you
    >could take at up to 10 points or something with their "merits and flaws"
    >system. It basically amounted to a 1st level PC being personally hunted
    >by an antidiluvian vampire, which meant that the DM either laid the
    >smackdown in the first session and killed the PC or had the hunter send
    >lesser minions after the PC (and his allies, if they were with him) bit
    >by bit as they grew into power -- which is EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS IN A
    >CAMPAIGN ANYWAY. Thus, it was either a "poof you're dead" flaw or a
    >"free 10 points of merits" flaw.

    Same with the Enemy disadvantage in GURPS, but there it's presented
    more that the Enemy is just a bloody nuisance in the course of other
    adventures, making them a bit more difficult.

    Frex, you have an Enemy of a local gang. One day when you're about to
    rescue the heiress from the cultists, the gang sets fire to your car
    so you have to take the bus and your getaway plans are ruined. The
    adventure is still the girl and cultists, but it's more difficult.


    --
    Jim or Sarah Davies, but probably Jim

    D&D and Star Fleet Battles stuff on http://www.aaargh.org
  20. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Mark Blunden wrote:
    > Dirk Collins wrote:
    >>During Chargen, and whenever a character levels the player rolls
    >>for action points. There is a cap both on the number of dice
    >>rolled for action points, and the total number of action points a
    >>character can have at any given level, based on the characters level.
    >
    > Wrong. You gain a fixed number at first level, which is refreshed at each
    > level-up (i.e. any unused points are not added to your new total). The
    > number of points per level increases with character level.

    No. Obviously, you don't have the Eberron Campaign Guide,
    otherwise you wouldn't be making such a preposterous claim. It's
    on page 45, by the way. Take a look at how many action Point Dice
    you get to roll for action points received at each level
    (including during chargen, at 1st level...). There is a maximum
    nunber of action points a character can have, but there is no
    guarantee every character will receive that.


    >>I was wrong in stating action dice allow for rerolls. One doesn't
    >>actually re-roll a failed save, a player instead expends action
    >>points to improve the die result of a failed save until such time
    >>as the result is satisfactory, or one runs out of available action
    >>points, whichever comes first.
    >
    >
    > Wrong. You can't spend an action point if you know you've failed - you can
    > spend a point after you make the roll, but not once you've been told whether
    > that roll is sufficient to succeed. When you spend an action point to
    > modifiy a d20 roll, you roll 1d6 and add the result to the roll (or 1d8 with
    > a feat, and at higher levels you choose the best of multiple rolls). You can
    > only spend a single action point per round - you don't get to keep pouring
    > them into a single check until you're sure you succeeded.

    Wrong again, for both of us, by the way. I might be making a minor
    correction to my campaign to correct my error, however, probably
    not, on account the error works for the benefit of the players,
    and it seems to be working o.k. during play.

    The general rule is that a player must decide whether to spend
    action points before making any determination about the success,
    failure, or effect of a d20 roll.

    If the player rolls a 2, for example. GM remains silent, but the
    player knows a roll of a 2 isn't going to make the
    save/hit/whatever. Player than can opt to spend action points to
    gain d6's to roll to buff the original d20 roll higher. The only
    limit on the action points spent, is the current supply of action
    points the player has.

    You can only use action points once in a round to buff a die roll.

    You can never re-roll action dice. Whatever bonus they give you,
    (For each action point spent) is what you get.

    Re,
    Dirk
  21. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    (Mark: sorry for piggybacking. Dirk is in my killfile.)

    One of the voices in my head - or was it Dirk Collins? - just said...
    > Actually, the introduction of action points into D&D is one the
    > more positive features of Eberron. It works like this;
    >
    > During Chargen, and whenever a character levels the player rolls
    > for action points. There is a cap both on the number of dice
    > rolled for action points, and the total number of action points a
    > character can have at any given level, based on the characters level.
    >
    > I was wrong in stating action dice allow for rerolls. One doesn't
    > actually re-roll a failed save, a player instead expends action
    > points to improve the die result of a failed save until such time
    > as the result is satisfactory, or one runs out of available action
    > points, whichever comes first.

    Wow. Just, wow. A fairly simple new system he claims to actually like,
    and yet every single word of his paraphrase of it is completely wrong,
    including "the" and "of".
  22. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Jeff Heikkinen wrote:

    > Wow. Just, wow. A fairly simple new system he claims to actually like,
    > and yet every single word of his paraphrase of it is completely wrong,
    > including "the" and "of".

    Only on account you can't read.
  23. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Sat, 28 May 2005 03:16:16 GMT, Dirk Collins
    <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:

    >As the subject line says...
    >
    >So I'm checking out the latest addition to my collection tonight;
    >Races of Eberron, and am looking through the newest feats, racial
    >feats, by the way, that only specific player races can choose, and
    >come across this gem.
    >
    >Ancestral Guidance
    >[Racial]
    >As an elf of Valenar, the spirit of your patron ancestors guides
    >your hands and thoughts in times of trouble.
    >
    >Prerequisite: Elf, region of origin, Valenar
    >
    >Any time you use an action point to modify a d20 roll, you can
    >also choose to re-roll a single action die. You must accept the
    >result of the second roll, even if it is worse than the initial roll.
    >
    >Special: This benefit represents the favor of your ancestral
    >spirit. If the DM has determines that you have dishonored or
    >angered your patron spirit you lose the benefit of this feat until
    >you have atoned for your actions.
    >
    >Now is it just me, or does the GM get a free action to railroad
    >the schmuck who picks this feat... I can see it now...
    >
    >Player: "I'm going to re-roll my action die on the failed save to
    >avoid the whirling sphere of blades!"
    >
    >DM: "Ahhhh. No. Fraid you can't do that."
    >
    >Player: "Can too! I'm using my Ancestral Guidance Feat."
    >
    >DM: "When you were back in the Vale of Golden Beer Boughs, you
    >didn't bow and then drink using both hands at the enchanted stream
    >of Sangrilla. You pissed off your ancestral spirits then, and they
    >are not offering you any guidance now. Presuming you manage to
    >survive the 12d6 of damage from the whirling sphere of blades,
    >you'll still need to atone for the sacrilege you committed back in
    >the vale of Golden Beer Boughs before your ancestors will again
    >guide your hand with their wisdom."
    >
    >Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of
    >the many feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that
    >should be tossed? Especially from Eberron?
    >
    >Re,
    >Dirk

    The proper way for a DM to penalize a PC would be to penalize
    those who specifically alienate their ancestors. For instance,
    the PC was told that it was traditional for elves of Valenar to
    bow and drink from the enchanted stream of Sangrilla and invited
    to do so. The character was too busy getting drunk the previous
    night and missed the ceremony. Then it might be OK to penalize
    the PC.

    Every aspect of the game can be manipulated by the DM. The only
    way you'd be happy with a DM who can't nerf is to have no DM or
    a useless DM. I suggest you try DMing then you can include or
    exclude any feat you like in your game. But see how you like it
    when the players start using the rules unfairly or abusively to
    trash your game and you can't do anything about it because
    you've rescinded any control you have over the game. The DM acts
    as the world in a game. In the real world our actions are
    limited by the world. Likewise in D&D. You can't have a rule for
    everything so sometimes the DM has to make rulings up. The DM
    can't foresee the consequences of every rule in advance so
    sometimes the DM has to modify the rules. [The latter sentence
    is disputable but that's the side of the fence I sit on.]
  24. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Dirk Collins wrote:
    > Mark Blunden wrote:
    >> Dirk Collins wrote:
    >>> During Chargen, and whenever a character levels the player rolls
    >>> for action points. There is a cap both on the number of dice
    >>> rolled for action points, and the total number of action points a
    >>> character can have at any given level, based on the characters
    >>> level.
    >>
    >> Wrong. You gain a fixed number at first level, which is refreshed at
    >> each level-up (i.e. any unused points are not added to your new
    >> total). The number of points per level increases with character
    >> level.
    >
    > No. Obviously, you don't have the Eberron Campaign Guide,
    > otherwise you wouldn't be making such a preposterous claim. It's
    > on page 45, by the way. Take a look at how many action Point Dice
    > you get to roll for action points received at each level
    > (including during chargen, at 1st level...). There is a maximum
    > nunber of action points a character can have, but there is no
    > guarantee every character will receive that.

    Wrong, on all counts. "At ist level, you have 5 action points. Each time you
    attain a new level, you gain a fresh supply of action points equal to 5 +
    half your level rounded down. Any action points you didn't spend the
    previous level are lost." No rolling, no randomness, you just get the
    points.

    >>> I was wrong in stating action dice allow for rerolls. One doesn't
    >>> actually re-roll a failed save, a player instead expends action
    >>> points to improve the die result of a failed save until such time
    >>> as the result is satisfactory, or one runs out of available action
    >>> points, whichever comes first.
    >>
    >>
    >> Wrong. You can't spend an action point if you know you've failed -
    >> you can spend a point after you make the roll, but not once you've
    >> been told whether that roll is sufficient to succeed. When you spend
    >> an action point to modifiy a d20 roll, you roll 1d6 and add the
    >> result to the roll (or 1d8 with a feat, and at higher levels you
    >> choose the best of multiple rolls). You can only spend a single
    >> action point per round - you don't get to keep pouring them into a
    >> single check until you're sure you succeeded.
    >
    > Wrong again, for both of us, by the way. I might be making a minor
    > correction to my campaign to correct my error, however, probably
    > not, on account the error works for the benefit of the players,
    > and it seems to be working o.k. during play.
    >
    > The general rule is that a player must decide whether to spend
    > action points before making any determination about the success,
    > failure, or effect of a d20 roll.
    >
    > If the player rolls a 2, for example. GM remains silent, but the
    > player knows a roll of a 2 isn't going to make the
    > save/hit/whatever. Player than can opt to spend action points to
    > gain d6's to roll to buff the original d20 roll higher. The only
    > limit on the action points spent, is the current supply of action
    > points the player has.

    Wrong. You can spend *an* action point to modify a d20 roll by 1d6, and you
    can't use action points in this manner more than once per round. Thus you
    cannot ever spend multiple APs to boost the same d20 roll.

    > You can only use action points once in a round to buff a die roll.
    >
    > You can never re-roll action dice. Whatever bonus they give you,
    > (For each action point spent) is what you get.

    "If your character level is 8th or higher, you can roll more than one d6
    when you spend an action point. If you do so, apply the highest result and
    disregard the other rolls." It even gives you a nice little table showing
    how many d6 you can roll at a given character level. Really, if you're going
    to reference sourcebook pages, you might want to actually read them first.

    --
    Mark.
  25. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Mark Blunden wrote:
    >
    > Wrong, on all counts. "At ist level, you have 5 action points. Each time you
    > attain a new level, you gain a fresh supply of action points equal to 5 +
    > half your level rounded down. Any action points you didn't spend the
    > previous level are lost." No rolling, no randomness, you just get the
    > points.

    In your game, of course.

    > Wrong. You can spend *an* action point to modify a d20 roll by 1d6, and you
    > can't use action points in this manner more than once per round. Thus you
    > cannot ever spend multiple APs to boost the same d20 roll.

    What good are action points then? A totally waste of time used
    this way, and not even worth using. It creates a desperate
    gambling situation for the player where they are set up by the
    rules for failure. Not a good addition to the game when used this
    way. Unfortunately, it is canon though, and I misunderstood when
    originally reading the rules.

    > "If your character level is 8th or higher, you can roll more than one d6
    > when you spend an action point. If you do so, apply the highest result and
    > disregard the other rolls." It even gives you a nice little table showing
    > how many d6 you can roll at a given character level. Really, if you're going
    > to reference sourcebook pages, you might want to actually read them first.
    >

    Yeah. Just so I can legally screw my players. My subject line says
    it all!

    What follows is a variation on the action point rules, for those
    GM's and players that may not want their game nerfed into some
    lame game, but instead wants to include cinematic drama and allow
    player creativity. (It's the way I've been GMing it to date, with
    one minor exception, in that the players are now not informed of
    whether their die roll is successful or not, until after they have
    decided how many action points to spend on modifying the original
    roll.)


    Action Points
    =================================================================
    Action points provide a means for the player to alter d20 rolls in
    dramatic situations, reflecting the luck that can change crushing
    failure into heroic success. Your character has a limited number
    of action points, and you must use them wisely, since you don't
    replenish this supply until your character attains a new level.

    You can spend action points to improve the result of an attack
    roll, a skills check, an ability check, a level check, or a saving
    throw. Certain feats and prestige classes features allow you to
    spend action points in different ways, but this is their most
    basic use.

    When you spend an action point, you add the result of a roll of
    one or more d6's to your d20 roll to help you meet or exceed the
    target number for the roll. You can declare that you are spending
    an action point after you have already rolled the d20, but you
    must do so before the DM reveals the results of your roll (Whether
    an attack roll, or check, or saving throw, succeeded or failed).
    You can't use an action points on a skill check or ability check
    when you are taking 10 or taking 20.

    You can only use action points once in a round. If you spend one
    or more action points, you can't spend additional points to
    improve another die roll. No spell, power, or other special
    ability can allow a character to reroll an action point die. If a
    character suffers permanent level loss, he does not lose any
    action points he has remaining, and any subsequent level
    advancement provides new action points as normal.

    If your character is 8th level or higher, you can roll more than
    one d6 when you spend an action point. In addition if your
    character is 8th level or higher, you can roll more than one d6 to
    acquire new action points each time you attain a new level.

    A 4th level character for example, on attaining 5th, level rolls
    1d6 and adds that result to the existing action point pool. At 8th
    level, the same character will roll 2d6 and add the result to the
    existing action point pool. At no time can a character possess
    more action points than the Maximum Action Points, so if the
    player rolls more, the excess points are not included.

    The same 4th level fighter, when making an attack chooses the
    number of action points to expend, and gains a d6 to roll for each
    action point. The result is added to the attack roll. If, for
    example the fighter is facing an orc, and he rolls a 9, he may opt
    to spend two action points to roll 2d6 to add to that nine.

    The same fighter, at 8th level rolls 2d6 for each action point
    spent, so if he spends two action points he will add 4d6 to that
    nine attack roll.

    Character Action point dice (d6) rolled
    Level For d20 roll AP's When Leveling
    =================================================================
    1st-7th 1d6 1d6
    8th-14th 2d6 2d6
    15th-20th 3d6 3d6
    =================================================================

    You determine your supply of action points after all other issues
    related to level advancement have been resolved. At no time can a
    character possess more action points than the Maximum Action Points.

    Maximum Action Points
    Character Level Action Point Maximum
    ==========================================
    1st 5
    2nd-3rd 6
    4th-5th 7
    6th-7th 8
    8th-9th 9
    10th-11th 10
    12th-13th 11
    14th-15th 12
    16th-17th 13
    18th-19th 14
    20th 15
    ==========================================


    Re,
    Dirk

    "Putting the ACTION back into action points"
  26. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Dirk Collins wrote:
    > Mark Blunden wrote:
    >>
    >> Wrong, on all counts. "At ist level, you have 5 action points. Each
    >> time you attain a new level, you gain a fresh supply of action
    >> points equal to 5 + half your level rounded down. Any action points
    >> you didn't spend the previous level are lost." No rolling, no
    >> randomness, you just get the points.
    >
    > In your game, of course.

    In any game that uses the rules as written.

    >> Wrong. You can spend *an* action point to modify a d20 roll by 1d6,
    >> and you can't use action points in this manner more than once per
    >> round. Thus you cannot ever spend multiple APs to boost the same d20
    >> roll.
    >
    > What good are action points then? A totally waste of time used
    > this way, and not even worth using. It creates a desperate
    > gambling situation for the player where they are set up by the
    > rules for failure. Not a good addition to the game when used this
    > way. Unfortunately, it is canon though, and I misunderstood when
    > originally reading the rules.

    Action Points aren't intended to turn a failure into a definite win, they're
    intended to provide a small boost to a borderline roll that gives the player
    an extra edge. I've seen them used perfectly effectively on a number of
    occasions.

    >> "If your character level is 8th or higher, you can roll more than
    >> one d6 when you spend an action point. If you do so, apply the
    >> highest result and disregard the other rolls." It even gives you a
    >> nice little table showing how many d6 you can roll at a given
    >> character level. Really, if you're going to reference sourcebook
    >> pages, you might want to actually read them first.
    >>
    >
    > Yeah. Just so I can legally screw my players. My subject line says
    > it all!

    What are you blithering about? Action Points provide an extra option for
    players that doesn't exist in other campaigns, at absolutely no cost - there
    aren't even guidelines suggesting that encounters should be beefed up to
    take account of them. How the hell can giving the players an extra
    advantage, however small, be interpreted as "screwing" them?

    --
    Mark.
  27. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Mark Blunden wrote:

    > What are you blithering about? Action Points provide an extra option for
    > players that doesn't exist in other campaigns, at absolutely no cost - there
    > aren't even guidelines suggesting that encounters should be beefed up to
    > take account of them. How the hell can giving the players an extra
    > advantage, however small, be interpreted as "screwing" them?

    On account more often than not, you won't be giving them an
    advantage at all, you'll just be wasting their time with some
    additional time-consuming bookkeeping that provides them no
    benefit at all.

    to Quote;
    "Action points provide the player with a means to alter d20 rolls
    in dramatic situations, reflecting the luck that can change
    crushing failures into heroic success."

    If they can't alter the roll enough, it won't make the difference
    anyway. Turning a crushing failure into a heroic success usually
    takes more than 1d6 pips as one has to beat a success by at least
    four (4) to make it to turn a success into a critical success. I
    won't even go into how NPC's and Monsters get screwed by not
    getting action points, but then again I'm currently running a game
    with a good party and an evil party and they don't have too many
    encounters with hostile NPC's and Monsters on account they are too
    busy, each trying to dominate or destroy the other player party.

    Re,
    Dirk
  28. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Mon, 30 May 2005 18:30:17 GMT, Dirk Collins
    <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:
    >to Quote;
    >"Action points provide the player with a means to alter d20 rolls
    >in dramatic situations, reflecting the luck that can change
    >crushing failures into heroic success."
    >
    >If they can't alter the roll enough, it won't make the difference
    >anyway. Turning a crushing failure into a heroic success usually
    >takes more than 1d6 pips as one has to beat a success by at least
    >four (4) to make it to turn a success into a critical success.

    What does a critical success have to do with it? The difference
    between a crushing failure and a heroic success can be as small as one
    point if it is a failure that you cannot afford to make.
  29. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Mon, 30 May 2005 18:30:17 GMT, Dirk Collins
    <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:

    >Mark Blunden wrote:
    >
    >> What are you blithering about? Action Points provide an extra option for
    >> players that doesn't exist in other campaigns, at absolutely no cost - there
    >> aren't even guidelines suggesting that encounters should be beefed up to
    >> take account of them. How the hell can giving the players an extra
    >> advantage, however small, be interpreted as "screwing" them?
    >
    >On account more often than not, you won't be giving them an
    >advantage at all, you'll just be wasting their time with some
    >additional time-consuming bookkeeping that provides them no
    >benefit at all.
    >
    >to Quote;
    >"Action points provide the player with a means to alter d20 rolls
    >in dramatic situations, reflecting the luck that can change
    >crushing failures into heroic success."
    >
    >If they can't alter the roll enough, it won't make the difference
    >anyway. Turning a crushing failure into a heroic success usually
    >takes more than 1d6 pips as one has to beat a success by at least
    >four (4) to make it to turn a success into a critical success.

    Gosh, if I had a crushing failure I'd settle for turning it into a
    mere success. Demanding a critical success seems greedy.


    I
    >won't even go into how NPC's and Monsters get screwed by not
    >getting action points,

    NPCs aren't real. You can't screw them.
  30. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Jeff Heikkinen" <no.way@jose.org> wrote in message
    news:MPG.1d043e85f101e6aa98a164@news.easynews.com...
    > (Mark: sorry for piggybacking. Dirk is in my killfile.)
    >
    > One of the voices in my head - or was it Dirk Collins? - just said...
    >> Actually, the introduction of action points into D&D is one the
    >> more positive features of Eberron. It works like this;
    >>
    >> During Chargen, and whenever a character levels the player rolls
    >> for action points. There is a cap both on the number of dice
    >> rolled for action points, and the total number of action points a
    >> character can have at any given level, based on the characters level.
    >>
    >> I was wrong in stating action dice allow for rerolls. One doesn't
    >> actually re-roll a failed save, a player instead expends action
    >> points to improve the die result of a failed save until such time
    >> as the result is satisfactory, or one runs out of available action
    >> points, whichever comes first.
    >
    > Wow. Just, wow. A fairly simple new system he claims to actually like,
    > and yet every single word of his paraphrase of it is completely wrong,
    > including "the" and "of".

    You *did* see who was doing the posting, right?

    --
    ^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishment the scroll,
    I am the Master of my fate:
    I am the Captain of my soul.

    from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
  31. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Jim Davies" <jim@aaargh.NoBleedinSpam.org> wrote in message
    news:idlk9195lmrcndm5rlhhof57hh904ov6t8@4ax.com...
    > Behold! for Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> spake unto the multitude
    > thus:
    >
    >>These feats sort of remind me of the old WoD's "Hunted" flaw, which you
    >>could take at up to 10 points or something with their "merits and flaws"
    >>system. It basically amounted to a 1st level PC being personally hunted
    >>by an antidiluvian vampire, which meant that the DM either laid the
    >>smackdown in the first session and killed the PC or had the hunter send
    >>lesser minions after the PC (and his allies, if they were with him) bit
    >>by bit as they grew into power -- which is EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS IN A
    >>CAMPAIGN ANYWAY. Thus, it was either a "poof you're dead" flaw or a
    >>"free 10 points of merits" flaw.
    >
    > Same with the Enemy disadvantage in GURPS, but there it's presented
    > more that the Enemy is just a bloody nuisance in the course of other
    > adventures, making them a bit more difficult.
    >
    > Frex, you have an Enemy of a local gang. One day when you're about to
    > rescue the heiress from the cultists, the gang sets fire to your car
    > so you have to take the bus and your getaway plans are ruined. The
    > adventure is still the girl and cultists, but it's more difficult.

    Great example! Consider it stolen.

    --
    ^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishment the scroll,
    I am the Master of my fate:
    I am the Captain of my soul.

    from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
  32. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Chad Lubrecht wrote:
    > On Mon, 30 May 2005 18:30:17 GMT, Dirk Collins
    > <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:
    >
    >>to Quote;
    >>"Action points provide the player with a means to alter d20 rolls
    >>in dramatic situations, reflecting the luck that can change
    >>crushing failures into heroic success."
    >>
    >>If they can't alter the roll enough, it won't make the difference
    >>anyway. Turning a crushing failure into a heroic success usually
    >>takes more than 1d6 pips as one has to beat a success by at least
    >>four (4) to make it to turn a success into a critical success.
    >
    >
    > What does a critical success have to do with it? The difference
    > between a crushing failure and a heroic success can be as small as one
    > point if it is a failure that you cannot afford to make.

    My point precisely. What good is a three, or a four when one needs
    to have seven or more just to make the target number? If you have
    an action point pool at all. One should be able to use it to turn
    the direction of a melee once a level to the clear favor of the
    players.

    One of the things that action dice does, when played my way, makes
    it harder for a DM to create a party kill situation out of one
    situation, encounter, or melee, and returns the focus to dramatic
    storytelling. It really helps during the game, to have the players
    graphically describe the extra effort they put in when they are
    using action dice.

    "It was not just a normal killing blow, But a low level sword
    sweep, with an attempt to disarm, followed by a spring attack
    strike to the vitals!"

    Re,
    Dirk
  33. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    David Johnston wrote:

    > NPCs aren't real. You can't screw them.
    >

    Yeah, but you can screw the players by not giving them an adequate
    challenge.

    Re,
    Dirk
  34. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    One of the voices in my head - or was it Malachias Invictus? - just
    said...
    >
    > "Jeff Heikkinen" <no.way@jose.org> wrote in message
    > news:MPG.1d043e85f101e6aa98a164@news.easynews.com...
    > > (Mark: sorry for piggybacking. Dirk is in my killfile.)
    > >
    > > One of the voices in my head - or was it Dirk Collins? - just said...
    > >> Actually, the introduction of action points into D&D is one the
    > >> more positive features of Eberron. It works like this;
    > >>
    > >> During Chargen, and whenever a character levels the player rolls
    > >> for action points. There is a cap both on the number of dice
    > >> rolled for action points, and the total number of action points a
    > >> character can have at any given level, based on the characters level.
    > >>
    > >> I was wrong in stating action dice allow for rerolls. One doesn't
    > >> actually re-roll a failed save, a player instead expends action
    > >> points to improve the die result of a failed save until such time
    > >> as the result is satisfactory, or one runs out of available action
    > >> points, whichever comes first.
    > >
    > > Wow. Just, wow. A fairly simple new system he claims to actually like,
    > > and yet every single word of his paraphrase of it is completely wrong,
    > > including "the" and "of".
    >
    > You *did* see who was doing the posting, right?

    There's a reason I had to piggyback my post...
  35. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Malachias Invictus wrote:
    > "Jim Davies" <jim@aaargh.NoBleedinSpam.org> wrote in message
    > news:idlk9195lmrcndm5rlhhof57hh904ov6t8@4ax.com...
    >
    >>Behold! for Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> spake unto the multitude
    >>thus:
    >>
    >>
    >>>These feats sort of remind me of the old WoD's "Hunted" flaw, which you
    >>>could take at up to 10 points or something with their "merits and flaws"
    >>>system. It basically amounted to a 1st level PC being personally hunted
    >>>by an antidiluvian vampire, which meant that the DM either laid the
    >>>smackdown in the first session and killed the PC or had the hunter send
    >>>lesser minions after the PC (and his allies, if they were with him) bit
    >>>by bit as they grew into power -- which is EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS IN A
    >>>CAMPAIGN ANYWAY. Thus, it was either a "poof you're dead" flaw or a
    >>>"free 10 points of merits" flaw.
    >>
    >>Same with the Enemy disadvantage in GURPS, but there it's presented
    >>more that the Enemy is just a bloody nuisance in the course of other
    >>adventures, making them a bit more difficult.
    >>
    >>Frex, you have an Enemy of a local gang. One day when you're about to
    >>rescue the heiress from the cultists, the gang sets fire to your car
    >>so you have to take the bus and your getaway plans are ruined. The
    >>adventure is still the girl and cultists, but it's more difficult.

    Yeah -- so every adventure is tougher for the WHOLE PARTY.

    "Nice weakness you took for all of us there, Al. Oh, YOUR character is
    more powerful now, eh? And things would get easier for all of us if we
    just dumped your ass and went off by ourselves? Hmm..."

    - Ron ^*^
  36. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Dirk Collins wrote:
    > Chad Lubrecht wrote:
    >> On Mon, 30 May 2005 18:30:17 GMT, Dirk Collins
    >> <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:
    >>
    >>> to Quote;
    >>> "Action points provide the player with a means to alter d20 rolls
    >>> in dramatic situations, reflecting the luck that can change
    >>> crushing failures into heroic success."
    >>>
    >>> If they can't alter the roll enough, it won't make the difference
    >>> anyway. Turning a crushing failure into a heroic success usually
    >>> takes more than 1d6 pips as one has to beat a success by at least
    >>> four (4) to make it to turn a success into a critical success.
    >>
    >>
    >> What does a critical success have to do with it? The difference
    >> between a crushing failure and a heroic success can be as small as
    >> one point if it is a failure that you cannot afford to make.
    >
    > My point precisely. What good is a three, or a four when one needs
    > to have seven or more just to make the target number?

    Are you deliberately trying to be dense? How can you be agreeing with a
    statement that one point may make all the difference while simultaneously
    stating that you ought to get at least seven?

    > One of the things that action dice does, when played my way, makes
    > it harder for a DM to create a party kill situation out of one
    > situation, encounter, or melee, and returns the focus to dramatic
    > storytelling.

    This seems to be a particularly difficult concept for you, but most DMs
    aren't trying to create a party kill situation. Action Points aren't
    supposed to simply short-circuit the randomness of combat completely,
    they're simply intended to turn those annoying "Damn! That was so close!"
    rolls into exhilarating "Yes! I just made it!" rolls.

    --
    Mark.
  37. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Werebat" <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in message
    news:IsXme.36256$aB.25367@lakeread03...

    >>>Frex, you have an Enemy of a local gang. One day when you're about to
    >>>rescue the heiress from the cultists, the gang sets fire to your car
    >>>so you have to take the bus and your getaway plans are ruined. The
    >>>adventure is still the girl and cultists, but it's more difficult.
    >
    > Yeah -- so every adventure is tougher for the WHOLE PARTY.
    >
    > "Nice weakness you took for all of us there, Al. Oh, YOUR character is
    > more powerful now, eh? And things would get easier for all of us if we
    > just dumped your ass and went off by ourselves? Hmm..."

    Remember the blanket party from Full Metal Jacket?

    --
    ^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishment the scroll,
    I am the Master of my fate:
    I am the Captain of my soul.

    from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
  38. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Werebat wrote:
    > Malachias Invictus wrote:
    > >>Frex, you have an Enemy of a local gang. One day when you're about to
    > >>rescue the heiress from the cultists, the gang sets fire to your car
    > >>so you have to take the bus and your getaway plans are ruined. The
    > >>adventure is still the girl and cultists, but it's more difficult.
    >
    > Yeah -- so every adventure is tougher for the WHOLE PARTY.
    >
    > "Nice weakness you took for all of us there, Al. Oh, YOUR character is
    > more powerful now, eh? And things would get easier for all of us if we
    > just dumped your ass and went off by ourselves? Hmm..."

    I remember in my old Champions superhero campaigns the players
    would usually try to get together and agree on some hunteds
    during chargen. It made sense, really - if Doctor Thermopylae
    is targeting Uberman, his good buddy Captain Twilight is
    eventually going to tick off the good doctor as well.

    Walt Smith
    Firelock on DALNet
  39. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Matt Frisch wrote:

    >>After looking at canon, I simply decided the
    >>way I had been using the Action Point rules was more beneficial
    >>for the game than adopting the rules as written.
    >
    >
    > Uh huh. Pull the other one.

    Fine... Fine... Hows your dodge bonus? Lookout... The second
    barrel O' buckshot is headed your way!

    *BLAM*
  40. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Mark Blunden wrote:

    > This seems to be a particularly difficult concept for you, but most DMs
    > aren't trying to create a party kill situation. Action Points aren't
    > supposed to simply short-circuit the randomness of combat completely,
    > they're simply intended to turn those annoying "Damn! That was so close!"
    > rolls into exhilarating "Yes! I just made it!" rolls.

    *Cough* cough... Cough... Bulshcough.... UHHHu uhha...uhha... ...cough

    First it won't work out that way, given one can only use a single
    action die for any given roll. At 1st level, action points used
    like this won't make the difference more than 25% of the time. So
    75% of the time you still get to screw your players, and you get
    to get them to use an action point providing them a faint hope
    that is in reality a longshot (And I don't want to hear about
    Churchill Downs just now). Nothing quite like watching their
    crestfallen faces as you announce they missed... yet again.
    Does it feel good to be a sadist?

    And do pray tell. I thought one of the whole points of making such
    a discombobulated system of Challenge Ratings and Equivalent
    Levels is so DM's can sneak in killer encounters, monsters, and
    traps, all the while looking innocent as can be.

    Looks like that worked. And now you're upset that there are tools
    for players to use, to short circuit that?

    Re,
    Dirk
  41. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "John Phillips" <jsphillips1@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    news:DvSle.258612$cg1.217211@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    >
    > "Dirk Collins" wrote
    >
    > > John Phillips wrote:
    > >
    > > > "Dirk Collins" wrote
    > > >>Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of
    > > >>the many feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that
    > > >>should be tossed? Especially from Eberron?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Looks like the problem is not with the feat...
    > >
    > > Nobody asked you, retread.
    >
    > How many times have I retreaded anyhow?

    Dirk strikes again.
  42. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Malachias Invictus wrote:
    > Dirk Collins wrote:
    > >
    > > Of course not. However if one is going to use action points,
    > > one might as well make it worthwhile for the players.
    >
    > Being able to add 1D6 to a D20 roll a few times per level
    > sounds pretty worthwhile to me.

    Particularly in a setting with airships, where a flubbed Reflex save
    or Balance check can result in plummeting hundreds or thousands of
    feet.

    Saved my Lhazaareen pirate/ir'Wynarn scion fighter/ranger smartass
    quite handily, too, where I'd have died without the Action Point
    (though I'd taken Action Boost, so I was using a d8 rather than a d6).

    --
    Nik
    - remove vermin from email address to reply.
  43. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Nikolas Landauer" <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote in message
    news:1117773185.c5cf85eaaa9f694f247dbddd72b693c8@teranews...
    > Malachias Invictus wrote:
    >> Dirk Collins wrote:
    >> >
    >> > Of course not. However if one is going to use action points,
    >> > one might as well make it worthwhile for the players.
    >>
    >> Being able to add 1D6 to a D20 roll a few times per level
    >> sounds pretty worthwhile to me.
    >
    > Particularly in a setting with airships, where a flubbed Reflex save
    > or Balance check can result in plummeting hundreds or thousands of
    > feet.
    >
    > Saved my Lhazaareen pirate/ir'Wynarn scion fighter/ranger smartass
    > quite handily, too, where I'd have died without the Action Point
    > (though I'd taken Action Boost, so I was using a d8 rather than a d6).

    Of course, I was just thinking that it would be neat to have over-rolls for
    when a "6" is rolled (roll a "6," roll again and add). That was one of the
    fun things about Earthdawn.

    --
    ^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishment the scroll,
    I am the Master of my fate:
    I am the Captain of my soul.

    from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
  44. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Malachias Invictus wrote:
    > Nikolas Landauer wrote:
    > > Malachias Invictus wrote:
    > > > Dirk Collins wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > Of course not. However if one is going to use action
    > > > > points, one might as well make it worthwhile for the
    > > > > players.
    > > >
    > > > Being able to add 1D6 to a D20 roll a few times per
    > > > level sounds pretty worthwhile to me.
    > >
    > > Particularly in a setting with airships, where a
    > > flubbed Reflex save or Balance check can result in
    > > plummeting hundreds or thousands of feet.
    > >
    > > Saved my Lhazaareen pirate/ir'Wynarn scion fighter/
    > > ranger smartass quite handily, too, where I'd have
    > > died without the Action Point (though I'd taken
    > > Action Boost, so I was using a d8 rather than a d6).
    >
    > Of course, I was just thinking that it would be neat
    > to have over-rolls for when a "6" is rolled (roll a
    > "6," roll again and add). That was one of the fun
    > things about Earthdawn.

    Open-ended rolls are fun, but I notice that this would interact poorly
    with Action Burst (I misnamed this feat in my post), with the
    open-ended part becoming less frequent with the supposedly more
    powerful feat.

    Given near-core D&D rules Eberron, how would you balance the concept
    of things like Action Burst with an open-ended AP expenditure system?
    I was thinking (no idea on balance yet, of course; this is just out of
    my ass) that a maximum roll would allow the expenditure of an
    additional AP in the method Dirk claimed was the rule (then tried to
    pretend he *meant* was only his house rule)... Then changing Action
    Burst to add a +1 or a +2 to an Action Point expenditure (but not an
    open-ended additional roll?).

    --
    Nik
    - remove vermin from email address to reply.
  45. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Nikolas Landauer wrote:
    > > Nikolas Landauer wrote:
    > > >
    > > > died without the Action Point (though I'd taken
    > > > Action Boost, so I was using a d8 rather than a d6).
    >
    > Open-ended rolls are fun, but I notice that this would interact poorly
    > with Action Burst (I misnamed this feat in my post),

    > of things like Action Burst with an open-ended AP expenditure system?

    > pretend he *meant* was only his house rule)... Then changing Action
    > Burst to add a +1 or a +2 to an Action Point expenditure (but not an

    *thwaps forehead* As it turns out, I misspoke on *this* post, rather
    than the my first. Action Boost is in fact the feat's name. I think
    I need to go to sleep now.

    --
    Nik
    - remove vermin from email address to reply.
  46. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Tue, 31 May 2005 02:13:55 GMT, Dirk Collins
    <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:

    >David Johnston wrote:
    >
    >> NPCs aren't real. You can't screw them.
    >>
    >
    >Yeah, but you can screw the players by not giving them an adequate
    >challenge.
    >

    The bad guys are as tough as you make them. They don't need a
    mechanic to get tougher.
  47. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Keith Davies wrote:
    > Nikolas Landauer <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote:

    > > Open-ended rolls are fun, but I notice that this would interact poorly
    > > with Action Burst (I misnamed this feat in my post), with the
    > > open-ended part becoming less frequent with the supposedly more
    > > powerful feat.
    >
    > In both cases it adds 0.5 to the average. That is, where d6 has an
    > average of 3.5, openending like this would make it 4. d8 would go from
    > 4.5 to 5.

    Nope. It changes the average on a d6 to 21/5 and on a d8 to 36/7.

    For any die size the effect is to change the average from sum
    of all possible rolls over number of possible rolls to sum of
    all possible rolls over number of non-open-ending rolls.

    For single standard dice that open end only on the maximum
    a d1 for example trivially goes to an average of infinity, not
    1.5 as would be the case if open ending always added .5.

    DougL
  48. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Replying to myself:

    DougL wrote:
    > Keith Davies wrote:
    > > Nikolas Landauer <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote:
    >
    > > > Open-ended rolls are fun, but I notice that this would interact poorly
    > > > with Action Burst (I misnamed this feat in my post), with the
    > > > open-ended part becoming less frequent with the supposedly more
    > > > powerful feat.
    > >
    > > In both cases it adds 0.5 to the average. That is, where d6 has an
    > > average of 3.5, openending like this would make it 4. d8 would go from
    > > 4.5 to 5.
    >
    > Nope. It changes the average on a d6 to 21/5 and on a d8 to 36/7.
    >
    > For any die size the effect is to change the average from sum
    > of all possible rolls over number of possible rolls to sum of
    > all possible rolls over number of non-open-ending rolls.
    >
    > For single standard dice that open end only on the maximum
    > a d1 for example trivially goes to an average of infinity, not
    > 1.5 as would be the case if open ending always added .5.

    The always adds .5 situation comes up when you add the die and
    subtract one to open end rather than simply adding another die
    roll.

    + another roll minus one is sensible, but I have never seen a
    published open ended system that worked that way.

    DougL
  49. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Nikolas Landauer <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote:
    > Malachias Invictus wrote:
    >> Nikolas Landauer wrote:
    >> > Malachias Invictus wrote:
    >> > > Dirk Collins wrote:
    >> > > >
    >> > > > Of course not. However if one is going to use action
    >> > > > points, one might as well make it worthwhile for the
    >> > > > players.
    >> > >
    >> > > Being able to add 1D6 to a D20 roll a few times per
    >> > > level sounds pretty worthwhile to me.
    >> >
    >> > Particularly in a setting with airships, where a
    >> > flubbed Reflex save or Balance check can result in
    >> > plummeting hundreds or thousands of feet.
    >> >
    >> > Saved my Lhazaareen pirate/ir'Wynarn scion fighter/
    >> > ranger smartass quite handily, too, where I'd have
    >> > died without the Action Point (though I'd taken
    >> > Action Boost, so I was using a d8 rather than a d6).
    >>
    >> Of course, I was just thinking that it would be neat
    >> to have over-rolls for when a "6" is rolled (roll a
    >> "6," roll again and add). That was one of the fun
    >> things about Earthdawn.
    >
    > Open-ended rolls are fun, but I notice that this would interact poorly
    > with Action Burst (I misnamed this feat in my post), with the
    > open-ended part becoming less frequent with the supposedly more
    > powerful feat.

    In both cases it adds 0.5 to the average. That is, where d6 has an
    average of 3.5, openending like this would make it 4. d8 would go from
    4.5 to 5.

    If you consider it just like any other simple modifier, smaller dice
    always get more effect. For instance, Con 14 gives +2 hp/HD. For a
    fighter this adds about a third to his hit points (5.5hp/HD -> 7.5hp/HD).
    For a wizard this almost doubles his hit points.

    However, it does have the weirdness, as you mention of tripping less
    often as well.


    Keith
    --
    Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
    keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
    keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
    http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
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