Eberron: DM's get to nerf some players!

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

As the subject line says...

So I'm checking out the latest addition to my collection tonight;
Races of Eberron, and am looking through the newest feats, racial
feats, by the way, that only specific player races can choose, and
come across this gem.

Ancestral Guidance
[Racial]
As an elf of Valenar, the spirit of your patron ancestors guides
your hands and thoughts in times of trouble.

Prerequisite: Elf, region of origin, Valenar

Any time you use an action point to modify a d20 roll, you can
also choose to re-roll a single action die. You must accept the
result of the second roll, even if it is worse than the initial roll.

Special: This benefit represents the favor of your ancestral
spirit. If the DM has determines that you have dishonored or
angered your patron spirit you lose the benefit of this feat until
you have atoned for your actions.

Now is it just me, or does the GM get a free action to railroad
the schmuck who picks this feat... I can see it now...

Player: "I'm going to re-roll my action die on the failed save to
avoid the whirling sphere of blades!"

DM: "Ahhhh. No. Fraid you can't do that."

Player: "Can too! I'm using my Ancestral Guidance Feat."

DM: "When you were back in the Vale of Golden Beer Boughs, you
didn't bow and then drink using both hands at the enchanted stream
of Sangrilla. You pissed off your ancestral spirits then, and they
are not offering you any guidance now. Presuming you manage to
survive the 12d6 of damage from the whirling sphere of blades,
you'll still need to atone for the sacrilege you committed back in
the vale of Golden Beer Boughs before your ancestors will again
guide your hand with their wisdom."

Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of
the many feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that
should be tossed? Especially from Eberron?

Re,
Dirk

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> writes
<snip>
>Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of the
>many feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that should be
>tossed? Especially from Eberron?

Your daftly confrontational DM?

--
Ian R Malcomson
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box"

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Sat, 28 May 2005 03:16:16 GMT, Dirk Collins
<dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:

>As the subject line says...
>
>So I'm checking out the latest addition to my collection tonight;
>Races of Eberron, and am looking through the newest feats, racial
>feats, by the way, that only specific player races can choose, and
>come across this gem.
>
>Now is it just me, or does the GM get a free action to railroad
>the schmuck who picks this feat... I can see it now...
>
How do you stop a GM who really wants to screw a character over?
>
>Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of
>the many feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that
>should be tossed? Especially from Eberron?

If you don't trust the GM why play?

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"John Phillips" <jsphillips1@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:CzSle.258623$cg1.230746@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Dirk Collins" wrote
>
>> John Phillips wrote:
>>
>> > "Dirk Collins" wrote
>> >>Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of
>> >>the many feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that
>> >>should be tossed? Especially from Eberron?
>> >
>> >
>> > Looks like the problem is not with the feat...
>>
>> Nobody asked you, retread.
>
> Oh yeah, this is honestly the funniest thing I've seen in weeks. Thank
> you.

I don't get it. Does it have something to do with tires?

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

>>Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of the many
>>feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that should be tossed?
>>Especially from Eberron?
>
> Your daftly confrontational DM?

Winner.

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Dirk Collins wrote:
> As the subject line says...
>
> So I'm checking out the latest addition to my collection tonight; Races
> of Eberron, and am looking through the newest feats, racial feats, by
> the way, that only specific player races can choose, and come across
> this gem.
>
> Ancestral Guidance
> [Racial]
> As an elf of Valenar, the spirit of your patron ancestors guides your
> hands and thoughts in times of trouble.
>
> Prerequisite: Elf, region of origin, Valenar
>
> Any time you use an action point to modify a d20 roll, you can also
> choose to re-roll a single action die. You must accept the result of the
> second roll, even if it is worse than the initial roll.
>
> Special: This benefit represents the favor of your ancestral spirit. If
> the DM has determines that you have dishonored or angered your patron
> spirit you lose the benefit of this feat until you have atoned for your
> actions.
>
> Now is it just me, or does the GM get a free action to railroad the
> schmuck who picks this feat... I can see it now...
>
> Player: "I'm going to re-roll my action die on the failed save to avoid
> the whirling sphere of blades!"
>
> DM: "Ahhhh. No. Fraid you can't do that."
>
> Player: "Can too! I'm using my Ancestral Guidance Feat."
>
> DM: "When you were back in the Vale of Golden Beer Boughs, you didn't
> bow and then drink using both hands at the enchanted stream of
> Sangrilla. You pissed off your ancestral spirits then, and they are not
> offering you any guidance now. Presuming you manage to survive the 12d6
> of damage from the whirling sphere of blades, you'll still need to atone
> for the sacrilege you committed back in the vale of Golden Beer Boughs
> before your ancestors will again guide your hand with their wisdom."
>
> Feats that can be nerfed by the DM should be tossed, in favor of the
> many feats a DM can't nerf. Any other gems like this, that should be
> tossed? Especially from Eberron?

Two that spring to mind are actually quite overpowered, unless something
happens to make them screwjob useless feats (or worse) for the PC:

Nymph's Kiss and Item Familiar

Nymph's kiss grants a +2 bonus to all Charisma based checks (eight
different skills, clerical turn undead attempts, and telepathic psionic
power activation checks, for instance), a +1 bonus to all saves, and +1
skill point per level. All for one feat. Of course, you need to have
an "intimate" relationship with a Fey creature in order to take the feat.

This could mean that if the fey creature dies, or ceases to be Fey, or
breaks off the relationship, you have just wasted a feat slot until you
can find another fairy to be intimate with.

Of course a DM who understands this and has something like that happen
is being a "prick", so most of the time it won't happen. He might,
however, cause the fey creature to get captured or in other ways require
assistance, thereby "inconveniencing" the PC by forcing them to go on an
adventure. Umm... Except that going on adventures is what the PC would
have been doing anyway, and he'll likely end up taking his buddies along
with him, so it's an inconvenience that pretty much... isn't... an
inconvenience at all, really.

Item Familiar is worse in some ways. It gives all sorts of powers
(Alertness feat, ability to enhance the item as a spellcaster with the
appropriate craft feat, a 10% bonus to all earned experience, etc). One
of the powers is grants is the ability to "invest" the item familiar
with skill points, gaining a bonus skill point (which may be used to
raise the rank of a skill above and beyond what would ordinarily be
allowed, for example Rank 11 at 7th level) for every three skill points
"invested". The trick is that these skill points vanish if the item is
ever lost or broken.

Permanently.

Which no given way of ever getting them back.

So if the item is ever lost or broken, and you have invested most of
your skill points in it, you end up having a character with very, very
few skill points (all the bonus XP gained goes bye-bye too). This is
obviously bad for anyone, and devastating for a rogue or other
skills-based PC. So devastating it would pretty much make the most
sense to scrap the PC and make another one.

These feats sort of remind me of the old WoD's "Hunted" flaw, which you
could take at up to 10 points or something with their "merits and flaws"
system. It basically amounted to a 1st level PC being personally hunted
by an antidiluvian vampire, which meant that the DM either laid the
smackdown in the first session and killed the PC or had the hunter send
lesser minions after the PC (and his allies, if they were with him) bit
by bit as they grew into power -- which is EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS IN A
CAMPAIGN ANYWAY. Thus, it was either a "poof you're dead" flaw or a
"free 10 points of merits" flaw.

Ugh.

- Ron ^*^

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Suddenly, drow, drunk as a lemur, stumbled out of the darkness and
exclaimed:

> 'retread'? is that an insult these days?
>

It sounds like something Fat Albert would call someone.

--
Billy Yank

Quinn: "I'm saying it's us, or them."
Murphy: "Well I choose them."
Q: "That's NOT an option!"
M: "Then you shouldn't have framed it as one."
-Sealab 2021

Billy Yank's Baldur's Gate Photo Portraits
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2xvw6/

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Kaos" <kaos@invalid.xplornet.com> wrote in message
news:52nh9197p2orogg0e8c8kbrgedgqufttjb@4ax.com...
> On 28 May 2005 04:25:55 -0700, laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu dared speak
> in front of ME:
>
>>Dirk Collins wrote:
>>>
>>> Now is it just me, or does the GM get a free action to railroad
>>> the schmuck who picks this feat... I can see it now...
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>Just curious... what do you do when your (obviously hostile) GM sends a
>>juvenile red dragon (CR 10) at your level 4 party? After, all, the
>>rules say he's entirely within his rights to do so. The DMG says that
>>in a well-constructed adventure, 5% of the encounters are overpowering
>>(CR 5+ above the party).
>
> You kick it's ass, because dragons are overranked pussies in 3.x
> (At least, that's what I've been told.)

Actually, it is just the opposite.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Dirk Collins" wrote

> John Phillips wrote:
>
> > Well, either he is calling me an old tire, or he misspelled retard.
> > Either way its funny, even if he intended it to be insulting.
>
> Not intended to be insulting... When I intend to insult you,
> you'll know it... ...And you still missed the third possibility.

That you are just confused? Nope, didnt miss that one.


John

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Behold! for Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> spake unto the multitude
thus:

>These feats sort of remind me of the old WoD's "Hunted" flaw, which you
>could take at up to 10 points or something with their "merits and flaws"
>system. It basically amounted to a 1st level PC being personally hunted
>by an antidiluvian vampire, which meant that the DM either laid the
>smackdown in the first session and killed the PC or had the hunter send
>lesser minions after the PC (and his allies, if they were with him) bit
>by bit as they grew into power -- which is EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS IN A
>CAMPAIGN ANYWAY. Thus, it was either a "poof you're dead" flaw or a
>"free 10 points of merits" flaw.

Same with the Enemy disadvantage in GURPS, but there it's presented
more that the Enemy is just a bloody nuisance in the course of other
adventures, making them a bit more difficult.

Frex, you have an Enemy of a local gang. One day when you're about to
rescue the heiress from the cultists, the gang sets fire to your car
so you have to take the bus and your getaway plans are ruined. The
adventure is still the girl and cultists, but it's more difficult.


--
Jim or Sarah Davies, but probably Jim

D&D and Star Fleet Battles stuff on http://www.aaargh.org

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

(Mark: sorry for piggybacking. Dirk is in my killfile.)

One of the voices in my head - or was it Dirk Collins? - just said...
> Actually, the introduction of action points into D&D is one the
> more positive features of Eberron. It works like this;
>
> During Chargen, and whenever a character levels the player rolls
> for action points. There is a cap both on the number of dice
> rolled for action points, and the total number of action points a
> character can have at any given level, based on the characters level.
>
> I was wrong in stating action dice allow for rerolls. One doesn't
> actually re-roll a failed save, a player instead expends action
> points to improve the die result of a failed save until such time
> as the result is satisfactory, or one runs out of available action
> points, whichever comes first.

Wow. Just, wow. A fairly simple new system he claims to actually like,
and yet every single word of his paraphrase of it is completely wrong,
including "the" and "of".

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Malachias Invictus wrote:
> "Kaos" <kaos@invalid.xplornet.com> wrote in message
> news:52nh9197p2orogg0e8c8kbrgedgqufttjb@4ax.com...
> > On 28 May 2005 04:25:55 -0700, laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu dared speak
> > in front of ME:
> >
> >>Dirk Collins wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Now is it just me, or does the GM get a free action to railroad
> >>> the schmuck who picks this feat... I can see it now...
> >>
> >><snip>
> >>
> >>Just curious... what do you do when your (obviously hostile) GM sends a
> >>juvenile red dragon (CR 10) at your level 4 party? After, all, the
> >>rules say he's entirely within his rights to do so. The DMG says that
> >>in a well-constructed adventure, 5% of the encounters are overpowering
> >>(CR 5+ above the party).
> >
> > You kick it's ass, because dragons are overranked pussies in 3.x
> > (At least, that's what I've been told.)
>
> Actually, it is just the opposite.

Yup. Dragons are deadly.

Laszlo

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Dirk Collins wrote:
> Mark Blunden wrote:
>> Dirk Collins wrote:
>>> During Chargen, and whenever a character levels the player rolls
>>> for action points. There is a cap both on the number of dice
>>> rolled for action points, and the total number of action points a
>>> character can have at any given level, based on the characters
>>> level.
>>
>> Wrong. You gain a fixed number at first level, which is refreshed at
>> each level-up (i.e. any unused points are not added to your new
>> total). The number of points per level increases with character
>> level.
>
> No. Obviously, you don't have the Eberron Campaign Guide,
> otherwise you wouldn't be making such a preposterous claim. It's
> on page 45, by the way. Take a look at how many action Point Dice
> you get to roll for action points received at each level
> (including during chargen, at 1st level...). There is a maximum
> nunber of action points a character can have, but there is no
> guarantee every character will receive that.

Wrong, on all counts. "At ist level, you have 5 action points. Each time you
attain a new level, you gain a fresh supply of action points equal to 5 +
half your level rounded down. Any action points you didn't spend the
previous level are lost." No rolling, no randomness, you just get the
points.

>>> I was wrong in stating action dice allow for rerolls. One doesn't
>>> actually re-roll a failed save, a player instead expends action
>>> points to improve the die result of a failed save until such time
>>> as the result is satisfactory, or one runs out of available action
>>> points, whichever comes first.
>>
>>
>> Wrong. You can't spend an action point if you know you've failed -
>> you can spend a point after you make the roll, but not once you've
>> been told whether that roll is sufficient to succeed. When you spend
>> an action point to modifiy a d20 roll, you roll 1d6 and add the
>> result to the roll (or 1d8 with a feat, and at higher levels you
>> choose the best of multiple rolls). You can only spend a single
>> action point per round - you don't get to keep pouring them into a
>> single check until you're sure you succeeded.
>
> Wrong again, for both of us, by the way. I might be making a minor
> correction to my campaign to correct my error, however, probably
> not, on account the error works for the benefit of the players,
> and it seems to be working o.k. during play.
>
> The general rule is that a player must decide whether to spend
> action points before making any determination about the success,
> failure, or effect of a d20 roll.
>
> If the player rolls a 2, for example. GM remains silent, but the
> player knows a roll of a 2 isn't going to make the
> save/hit/whatever. Player than can opt to spend action points to
> gain d6's to roll to buff the original d20 roll higher. The only
> limit on the action points spent, is the current supply of action
> points the player has.

Wrong. You can spend *an* action point to modify a d20 roll by 1d6, and you
can't use action points in this manner more than once per round. Thus you
cannot ever spend multiple APs to boost the same d20 roll.

> You can only use action points once in a round to buff a die roll.
>
> You can never re-roll action dice. Whatever bonus they give you,
> (For each action point spent) is what you get.

"If your character level is 8th or higher, you can roll more than one d6
when you spend an action point. If you do so, apply the highest result and
disregard the other rolls." It even gives you a nice little table showing
how many d6 you can roll at a given character level. Really, if you're going
to reference sourcebook pages, you might want to actually read them first.

--
Mark.

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Dirk Collins wrote:
> Mark Blunden wrote:
>>
>> Wrong, on all counts. "At ist level, you have 5 action points. Each
>> time you attain a new level, you gain a fresh supply of action
>> points equal to 5 + half your level rounded down. Any action points
>> you didn't spend the previous level are lost." No rolling, no
>> randomness, you just get the points.
>
> In your game, of course.

In any game that uses the rules as written.

>> Wrong. You can spend *an* action point to modify a d20 roll by 1d6,
>> and you can't use action points in this manner more than once per
>> round. Thus you cannot ever spend multiple APs to boost the same d20
>> roll.
>
> What good are action points then? A totally waste of time used
> this way, and not even worth using. It creates a desperate
> gambling situation for the player where they are set up by the
> rules for failure. Not a good addition to the game when used this
> way. Unfortunately, it is canon though, and I misunderstood when
> originally reading the rules.

Action Points aren't intended to turn a failure into a definite win, they're
intended to provide a small boost to a borderline roll that gives the player
an extra edge. I've seen them used perfectly effectively on a number of
occasions.

>> "If your character level is 8th or higher, you can roll more than
>> one d6 when you spend an action point. If you do so, apply the
>> highest result and disregard the other rolls." It even gives you a
>> nice little table showing how many d6 you can roll at a given
>> character level. Really, if you're going to reference sourcebook
>> pages, you might want to actually read them first.
>>
>
> Yeah. Just so I can legally screw my players. My subject line says
> it all!

What are you blithering about? Action Points provide an extra option for
players that doesn't exist in other campaigns, at absolutely no cost - there
aren't even guidelines suggesting that encounters should be beefed up to
take account of them. How the hell can giving the players an extra
advantage, however small, be interpreted as "screwing" them?

--
Mark.

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Mon, 30 May 2005 18:30:17 GMT, Dirk Collins
<dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:
>to Quote;
>"Action points provide the player with a means to alter d20 rolls
>in dramatic situations, reflecting the luck that can change
>crushing failures into heroic success."
>
>If they can't alter the roll enough, it won't make the difference
>anyway. Turning a crushing failure into a heroic success usually
>takes more than 1d6 pips as one has to beat a success by at least
>four (4) to make it to turn a success into a critical success.

What does a critical success have to do with it? The difference
between a crushing failure and a heroic success can be as small as one
point if it is a failure that you cannot afford to make.

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Chad Lubrecht wrote:
> On Mon, 30 May 2005 18:30:17 GMT, Dirk Collins
> <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:
>
>>to Quote;
>>"Action points provide the player with a means to alter d20 rolls
>>in dramatic situations, reflecting the luck that can change
>>crushing failures into heroic success."
>>
>>If they can't alter the roll enough, it won't make the difference
>>anyway. Turning a crushing failure into a heroic success usually
>>takes more than 1d6 pips as one has to beat a success by at least
>>four (4) to make it to turn a success into a critical success.
>
>
> What does a critical success have to do with it? The difference
> between a crushing failure and a heroic success can be as small as one
> point if it is a failure that you cannot afford to make.

My point precisely. What good is a three, or a four when one needs
to have seven or more just to make the target number? If you have
an action point pool at all. One should be able to use it to turn
the direction of a melee once a level to the clear favor of the
players.

One of the things that action dice does, when played my way, makes
it harder for a DM to create a party kill situation out of one
situation, encounter, or melee, and returns the focus to dramatic
storytelling. It really helps during the game, to have the players
graphically describe the extra effort they put in when they are
using action dice.

"It was not just a normal killing blow, But a low level sword
sweep, with an attempt to disarm, followed by a spring attack
strike to the vitals!"

Re,
Dirk

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Jeff Heikkinen" <no.way@jose.org> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d043e85f101e6aa98a164@news.easynews.com...
> (Mark: sorry for piggybacking. Dirk is in my killfile.)
>
> One of the voices in my head - or was it Dirk Collins? - just said...
>> Actually, the introduction of action points into D&D is one the
>> more positive features of Eberron. It works like this;
>>
>> During Chargen, and whenever a character levels the player rolls
>> for action points. There is a cap both on the number of dice
>> rolled for action points, and the total number of action points a
>> character can have at any given level, based on the characters level.
>>
>> I was wrong in stating action dice allow for rerolls. One doesn't
>> actually re-roll a failed save, a player instead expends action
>> points to improve the die result of a failed save until such time
>> as the result is satisfactory, or one runs out of available action
>> points, whichever comes first.
>
> Wow. Just, wow. A fairly simple new system he claims to actually like,
> and yet every single word of his paraphrase of it is completely wrong,
> including "the" and "of".

You *did* see who was doing the posting, right?

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

One of the voices in my head - or was it Malachias Invictus? - just
said...
>
> "Jeff Heikkinen" <no.way@jose.org> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d043e85f101e6aa98a164@news.easynews.com...
> > (Mark: sorry for piggybacking. Dirk is in my killfile.)
> >
> > One of the voices in my head - or was it Dirk Collins? - just said...
> >> Actually, the introduction of action points into D&D is one the
> >> more positive features of Eberron. It works like this;
> >>
> >> During Chargen, and whenever a character levels the player rolls
> >> for action points. There is a cap both on the number of dice
> >> rolled for action points, and the total number of action points a
> >> character can have at any given level, based on the characters level.
> >>
> >> I was wrong in stating action dice allow for rerolls. One doesn't
> >> actually re-roll a failed save, a player instead expends action
> >> points to improve the die result of a failed save until such time
> >> as the result is satisfactory, or one runs out of available action
> >> points, whichever comes first.
> >
> > Wow. Just, wow. A fairly simple new system he claims to actually like,
> > and yet every single word of his paraphrase of it is completely wrong,
> > including "the" and "of".
>
> You *did* see who was doing the posting, right?

There's a reason I had to piggyback my post...

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Malachias Invictus wrote:
> "Jim Davies" <jim@aaargh.NoBleedinSpam.org> wrote in message
> news:idlk9195lmrcndm5rlhhof57hh904ov6t8@4ax.com...
>
>>Behold! for Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> spake unto the multitude
>>thus:
>>
>>
>>>These feats sort of remind me of the old WoD's "Hunted" flaw, which you
>>>could take at up to 10 points or something with their "merits and flaws"
>>>system. It basically amounted to a 1st level PC being personally hunted
>>>by an antidiluvian vampire, which meant that the DM either laid the
>>>smackdown in the first session and killed the PC or had the hunter send
>>>lesser minions after the PC (and his allies, if they were with him) bit
>>>by bit as they grew into power -- which is EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS IN A
>>>CAMPAIGN ANYWAY. Thus, it was either a "poof you're dead" flaw or a
>>>"free 10 points of merits" flaw.
>>
>>Same with the Enemy disadvantage in GURPS, but there it's presented
>>more that the Enemy is just a bloody nuisance in the course of other
>>adventures, making them a bit more difficult.
>>
>>Frex, you have an Enemy of a local gang. One day when you're about to
>>rescue the heiress from the cultists, the gang sets fire to your car
>>so you have to take the bus and your getaway plans are ruined. The
>>adventure is still the girl and cultists, but it's more difficult.

Yeah -- so every adventure is tougher for the WHOLE PARTY.

"Nice weakness you took for all of us there, Al. Oh, YOUR character is
more powerful now, eh? And things would get easier for all of us if we
just dumped your ass and went off by ourselves? Hmm..."

- Ron ^*^

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Mark Blunden wrote:

> This seems to be a particularly difficult concept for you, but most DMs
> aren't trying to create a party kill situation. Action Points aren't
> supposed to simply short-circuit the randomness of combat completely,
> they're simply intended to turn those annoying "Damn! That was so close!"
> rolls into exhilarating "Yes! I just made it!" rolls.

*Cough* cough... Cough... Bulshcough.... UHHHu uhha...uhha... ...cough

First it won't work out that way, given one can only use a single
action die for any given roll. At 1st level, action points used
like this won't make the difference more than 25% of the time. So
75% of the time you still get to screw your players, and you get
to get them to use an action point providing them a faint hope
that is in reality a longshot (And I don't want to hear about
Churchill Downs just now). Nothing quite like watching their
crestfallen faces as you announce they missed... yet again.
Does it feel good to be a sadist?

And do pray tell. I thought one of the whole points of making such
a discombobulated system of Challenge Ratings and Equivalent
Levels is so DM's can sneak in killer encounters, monsters, and
traps, all the while looking innocent as can be.

Looks like that worked. And now you're upset that there are tools
for players to use, to short circuit that?

Re,
Dirk

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Werebat" <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in message
news:IsXme.36256$aB.25367@lakeread03...

>>>Frex, you have an Enemy of a local gang. One day when you're about to
>>>rescue the heiress from the cultists, the gang sets fire to your car
>>>so you have to take the bus and your getaway plans are ruined. The
>>>adventure is still the girl and cultists, but it's more difficult.
>
> Yeah -- so every adventure is tougher for the WHOLE PARTY.
>
> "Nice weakness you took for all of us there, Al. Oh, YOUR character is
> more powerful now, eh? And things would get easier for all of us if we
> just dumped your ass and went off by ourselves? Hmm..."

Remember the blanket party from Full Metal Jacket?

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Malachias Invictus wrote:
> Dirk Collins wrote:
> >
> > Of course not. However if one is going to use action points,
> > one might as well make it worthwhile for the players.
>
> Being able to add 1D6 to a D20 roll a few times per level
> sounds pretty worthwhile to me.

Particularly in a setting with airships, where a flubbed Reflex save
or Balance check can result in plummeting hundreds or thousands of
feet.

Saved my Lhazaareen pirate/ir'Wynarn scion fighter/ranger smartass
quite handily, too, where I'd have died without the Action Point
(though I'd taken Action Boost, so I was using a d8 rather than a d6).

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Nikolas Landauer" <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote in message
news:1117773185.c5cf85eaaa9f694f247dbddd72b693c8@teranews...
> Malachias Invictus wrote:
>> Dirk Collins wrote:
>> >
>> > Of course not. However if one is going to use action points,
>> > one might as well make it worthwhile for the players.
>>
>> Being able to add 1D6 to a D20 roll a few times per level
>> sounds pretty worthwhile to me.
>
> Particularly in a setting with airships, where a flubbed Reflex save
> or Balance check can result in plummeting hundreds or thousands of
> feet.
>
> Saved my Lhazaareen pirate/ir'Wynarn scion fighter/ranger smartass
> quite handily, too, where I'd have died without the Action Point
> (though I'd taken Action Boost, so I was using a d8 rather than a d6).

Of course, I was just thinking that it would be neat to have over-rolls for
when a "6" is rolled (roll a "6," roll again and add). That was one of the
fun things about Earthdawn.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Nikolas Landauer wrote:
> > Nikolas Landauer wrote:
> > >
> > > died without the Action Point (though I'd taken
> > > Action Boost, so I was using a d8 rather than a d6).
>
> Open-ended rolls are fun, but I notice that this would interact poorly
> with Action Burst (I misnamed this feat in my post),

> of things like Action Burst with an open-ended AP expenditure system?

> pretend he *meant* was only his house rule)... Then changing Action
> Burst to add a +1 or a +2 to an Action Point expenditure (but not an

*thwaps forehead* As it turns out, I misspoke on *this* post, rather
than the my first. Action Boost is in fact the feat's name. I think
I need to go to sleep now.

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 02:47:59 -0400, Nikolas Landauer
<dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> carved upon a tablet of ether:

> Open-ended rolls are fun, but I notice that this would interact poorly
> with Action Burst (I misnamed this feat in my post), with the
> open-ended part becoming less frequent with the supposedly more
> powerful feat.
>
> Given near-core D&D rules Eberron, how would you balance the concept
> of things like Action Burst with an open-ended AP expenditure system?
> I was thinking (no idea on balance yet, of course; this is just out of
> my ass) that a maximum roll would allow the expenditure of an
> additional AP in the method Dirk claimed was the rule (then tried to
> pretend he *meant* was only his house rule)... Then changing Action
> Burst to add a +1 or a +2 to an Action Point expenditure (but not an
> open-ended additional roll?).

You still get a higher average than you do without it. d6 open-ended
is about 4.2, and d8 open-ended is about 5.15.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."