Tom's Hardware > Forum > CPU & Components > CPUs > die size and cooling
Word :    Username :           
 

Question -- if you took Intels P4 with .13 micron architecture, and placed the same number of transistors on a wafer which was 3-4 times larger in area (basically, spread them out):
-- would this require a higher voltage to run?
-- would this introduce inefficiencies

It certianly would make for a cooler chip, especially if the heatsink were fused to the core (and all you had to do was to slap a 80 mm fan on top).

Sponsored Links
Register or log in to remove.

im no engineer but i think that if the transistors were farther apart they would require more power to pass current between them. not sure what it would do to heat, but it would make prices a lot higher, and the foot print on the mother board would be much larger=higher cost again. and if they started fusing heat sinks to the core where would that leave artic silver, we cant let this happen to artic silver!

i went to the tomshardware forums and all i got was this lousy signature.

Reply to jihiggs

If you spread out the transistors, you wont be able to get clock speeds that are as high.
An effective heat spreader is a lot more useful than inflating the core size.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."

Reply to somerandomguy

larger die area will certainly make cooling easier, not that the chip will dissipate less power, but lesser power will be dissipated per sq.mm, and that would help cooling.

but rather than reducing the cost benefit of going for smaller 0.13u technology with more die per wafer, it will actually be costlier because you havent improved the yeild even with a costlier process!

among the other things that would be affected by this larger die size is the maximum speed. longer the circuit traces, higher will be the inductance and capacitance between adjacent tracks (the silicon oxide acts as a dielectric) limiting the maximum frequency the die could achieve. one more factor is the voltage required to operate a longer conductor, it will certainly be a bit higher which would actually contribute to the powre consumed by the die and in turn neccesitate better cooling!

whoever thought of it, might have got it wrong. its actually difficult to balance the proc and cons of such a trick, especially in the market conditions like these. probabely the advantages slightly or more thn outweigh the disadvantages of this technology.

remember the Quantum's Bigfoot technology? Introducing a 5.25" hard disk when 3/5" ones were becoming mainstream was a marketing hype, old wine in a new bottle.

Its certainly not with silicon though, the heat spreader and active cooling are much better choices than making a larger die.

girish

<font color=red>Nothing is fool-proof. Fools are Ingenious!</font color=red>

Reply to girish

Most importantly - only due to the die size reductions they were able to lower the prices as much as they did.
Increasing the die size would increase the prices as well.

Reply to Anonymous

If you make the connections inside the die longer, the resistance of the connections will raise, also you will need more Voltage which gives more powerconsuption and thus more heat.
They also will cost more, and will be more difficult to transport (which also rices costs).
The only advantage so far is that it is better to cool, although it is going to produce more heat. But good heat conducting materials and a good heatspreader will work perfect on smaller cores.

My case has so many fans that it hovers above the ground :eek: .

Reply to svol

OK, I buy the higher voltage and cost points. What if they made CPUs with mininal die size, then attached a large Al heat spreader on top -- so you don't need a heat sink or thermal paste. You would then need just a fan (preferably, 80 mm or larger). Hey -- with air cooling, the 3 things which are functions of cpu cooling are heat sink, thermal paste, and the fan. If they fused a heat spreader directly to the die, then you wouldn't need the first 2. And any idiot could slap on a fan of their choice. If the fan area was 80 mm, that wouldn't take too much room. Plus, those who had extra room on their mobos could attack 92 or 120 mm adapters on top of that. This would make of idiotproof, cheap, and quieter CPU cooling.

Reply to skimzzz

Better make it copper, it will increase cooling performance, but one problem it that it will make the CPU much bigger to handle, and every motherboard has to made to fit with the heatsink, I don't think OEM companys will be happy with it.

My case has so many fans that it hovers above the ground :eek: .

Reply to svol

A heat sink is designed to have a large surface area. The surface area is directly related to the rate of heat dissapation. A 1" heat speader isn't going to be enough, perhaps if you really dropped the speed and voltage it would run, perhaps not. In any event, if you are going to "slap on a fan" why not slap on the fan/heatsink/thermal foil combo which is supplied with your chip?

Reply to sjonnie
- 0 +

you must be refering to those *negative* price reductions we all got to experience with the arrival of the NW parts.

Tom's Hardware > Forum > CPU & Components > CPUs > die size and cooling
Go to:

There are 944 identified and unidentified users. To see the list of identified users, Click here.

Please mind

You are about to answer a thread that has been inactive for more than 6 months.
If you still wish to proceed, please ensure that your posting is original and does not duplicate or overlap any prior responses to this thread.

Add a reply Cancel
Sponsored links
  • Ask the community now
  • Publish
Ad
They won a badge
Join us in greeting them