ROTS: The acronym says it all!

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

O.K. so me and my wife finally make our way down to the local
theatre complex to screen Star Wars:Revenge of the Sith and...
well...

Industrial Light & Magic is truly a spectacular company worthy of
both honors and accolades, as is Skywalker Sound. The folks
working at these places, saved the film from being doomed, and it
was almost enough to make this episode of the Star Wars saga into
the best, but it didn't quite turn out that way.

Spoiler Space (For those folks that may still want to see it, but
haven't yet)...


....


....


....


....


The screenwriting was atrocious and continuity on the storyline as
a whole was equally bad. I sure hope there isn't another episode
in production now. As far as I'm concerned, it's the last Star
Wars movie I'll be paying to see if George Lucas is the head
screenwriter on the project.


My wife said (prior to our viewing) that this episode will answer
all our questions about the story to date. I just laughed on
account of some of the commentary here I had read prior to our
engagement with the film.

Here are some especially weak points in this story;

Mace Windu turns away from being a Jedi Master, and following the
path of light and all, and turns into a murderous killer for no
good reason at all (Except to advance the plot a bit.) I mean come
on... Here's the guy that handed the emperor his own a$$ in record
time, as he had successfully defeated the Sith Lord in a brief
single combat. There was no need to kill the whining gollum that
the emperor had been reduced to. Assassins rank better than the
fallen Windu, for at least they kill for a reason: money.
Lightsaber off, electronic cuffs, on, baby. For the record, I
think Samuel Jackson is a superb actor, it's a shame he had to
contend with such a terrible script. No chance to act with that
drivel.

The Emperor, Darth Sideous. Jedi of the dark side aren't cowards,
just like their counterparts on the light side. So when he
begged for his life after Windu defeated him, it destroyed the
suspenion of disbelief for me, in his ability to to rise up and
rule such vast interstellar empire in the first place. Surely this
cowardice would have revealed itself at a sooner time and place,
given the challenges it would take to rise in power in the first
place.

Stupid Jedi. Throughout the early story, all of the best Jedi work
as a team, in pairs, or in small groups to protect each other. As
the story unfolds, most of the Jedi are assassinated by clones
when they are running around without any other Jedi around to
protect them. This violates a basic tenet of common security that
was established by the Jedi in earlier scenes and episodes. One
would think that after Geonosis, the Jedi would be keeping closer
tabs on each other, especially after the significant losses
incurred during the battle for Geonosis.

Padme. She dies of a broken heart. Please. She's got a guy that
takes control of a vast interstellar empire wrapped around her
finger already, a guy that can fight and win, and who is also an
excellent negotiator, a guy who also has accurate premonitions and
can see into the future. Now he says he has taken over the Empire
in order to protect her and the children, and she is going to not
believe him, and stop loving him for that? I don't buy it. To add
insult to injury, in Episode VI, Leah was asked by Luke at the
Ewok village if she knew her mother;

LUKE
Leia... do you remember your mother? Your
real mother?

LEIA
Just a little bit. She died when I was very
young.

LUKE
What do you remember?

LEIA
Just...images, really. Feelings.

LUKE
Tell me.

LEIA
(a little surprised at his insistence)
She was very beautiful. Kind, but...sad.
(looks up) Why are you asking me all this?

He looks away.

When Padme dies during childbirth, it would be impossible for Leia
to know her mother at all (Since padme wasn't strong with the
force, or trained in it's use.) The Episode III story continuity
(and believeability) dies some more here.

Anakin. Turning over to the dark side without at least a fight
with the emperor was anti-climatic, and this took away from the
story as well. Going in, I incorrectly guessed that the emperor
had lured Obi-Wan and Anakin away from Padme, and that she was
injured while pregnant, and that Obi-Wan had prevented Anakin from
returning to aid her when she was in need, and this is the rift
between Obi-Wan and Anakin that the emporer turned to his
advantage in the final confrontation. Too bad the story didn't
work out that way, as it would have played better.

The special effects somewhat made up for the terrible script, but
I found the re-entry of the seperatist flagship piloted by Obi-Wan
and Anakin distracting, since all I could think about was the
Columbia disaster while watching this. That scene should have been
omitted entirely. The rest of the special effects were awesome,
will require a review when ROTS comes out on video (To be mined
for good ideas) and I liked General Greivious character quite a
bit, especially while wielding the lightsabres in the
confrontation with Obi-Wan.

Re,
Dirk
191 answers Last reply
More about rots acronym
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Sun, 29 May 2005 22:40:40 GMT, Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net>
    scribed into the ether:

    >
    >O.K. so me and my wife finally make our way down to the local
    >theatre complex to screen Star Wars:Revenge of the Sith and...
    >well...
    >
    >Industrial Light & Magic is truly a spectacular company worthy of
    >both honors and accolades, as is Skywalker Sound. The folks
    >working at these places, saved the film from being doomed, and it
    >was almost enough to make this episode of the Star Wars saga into
    >the best, but it didn't quite turn out that way.

    You've actually got it backwards. If the technical competence of ILM wasn't
    so high, then Lucas would have needed to fortify the movie with actual
    dialogue and a better plot outline, because he couldn't hide behind
    effects.

    They also would have had to actually, you know, build a set or two. You
    could tell in a couple of scenes that the actors were kind of lost in the
    bluescreen, and not reacting properly because they couldn't actually see
    where they were.

    Reminded me of one of the bloopers in Independance Day, right after the
    alien motherships first show up, there is an exterior shot of the White
    House with the mothership settling above it. If you look down at the people
    in front of the gate, about half of them are just walking along minding
    their own business...they didn't know they were being filmed, and of course
    had no idea that they should be staring upwards and pissing their pants
    about this huge spaceship above their heads. That's the feeling I got...a
    lot...with all of the CGI scenery in ROTS.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Sun, 29 May 2005 22:40:40 GMT, Dirk Collins
    <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:

    >
    >O.K. so me and my wife finally make our way down to the local
    >theatre complex to screen Star Wars:Revenge of the Sith and...
    >well...
    >
    >Industrial Light & Magic is truly a spectacular company worthy of
    >both honors and accolades, as is Skywalker Sound. The folks
    >working at these places, saved the film from being doomed, and it
    >was almost enough to make this episode of the Star Wars saga into
    >the best, but it didn't quite turn out that way.
    >
    >Spoiler Space (For those folks that may still want to see it, but
    >haven't yet)...
    >
    >
    >
    >...
    >
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    >
    >Mace Windu turns away from being a Jedi Master, and following the
    >path of light and all, and turns into a murderous killer for no
    >good reason at all

    Sure there was a reason. Palpatine was messing with his head.

    (Except to advance the plot a bit.) I mean come
    >on... Here's the guy that handed the emperor his own a$$ in record
    >time,

    The emperor kills all the other other council members while Mace can't
    even touch him and then suddenly Mace gets the upper hand just as
    Aniken walks in. Yeah. Mace was entirely entirely in control of that
    scene.

    >The Emperor, Darth Sideous. Jedi of the dark side aren't cowards,
    > just like their counterparts on the light side. So when he
    >begged for his life after Windu defeated him, it destroyed the
    >suspenion of disbelief for me, in his ability to to rise up and
    >rule such vast interstellar empire in the first place. Surely this
    >cowardice would have revealed itself at a sooner time and place,
    >given the challenges it would take to rise in power in the first
    >place.

    So you didn't get that Palpatine was faking it (and faking it damn
    obviously) to get Aniken to attack Mace and fall to the Dark Side?
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Dirk Collins wrote:

    > Spoiler Space (For those folks that may still want to see it, but
    > haven't yet)...
    >
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    > The Emperor, Darth Sideous. Jedi of the dark side aren't cowards,
    > just like their counterparts on the light side. So when he
    > begged for his life after Windu defeated him

    An act to turn Anakin to his side and distract Windu.

    > Stupid Jedi. Throughout the early story, all of the best Jedi work
    > as a team, in pairs, or in small groups to protect each other. As
    > the story unfolds, most of the Jedi are assassinated by clones
    > when they are running around without any other Jedi around to
    > protect them

    Big war on. The Jedi were probably spread really thin. If you have 100 Jedi
    and 150 missions, then sending them out in pairs might not be practical

    > Padme. She dies of a broken heart.

    Did she? I thought she died in a difficult childbirth, after running around
    under an enormous about of stress.

    > Please. She's got a guy that
    > takes control of a vast interstellar empire wrapped around her
    > finger already, a guy that can fight and win, and who is also an
    > excellent negotiator, a guy who also has accurate premonitions and
    > can see into the future. Now he says he has taken over the Empire
    > in order to protect her and the children, and she is going to not
    > believe him, and stop loving him for that? I don't buy it.

    He's turned into a powermad loony determined to wipe out the Jedi and the
    Senate and rule the universe and you expect her to go "That's nice dear,
    bug give me a hug first"?

    > When Padme dies during childbirth, it would be impossible for Leia
    > to know her mother at all

    So she imagined it. Or it had something to do with Leia's sensitivity to the
    force.

    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "David Dorward" wrote
    > Dirk Collins wrote:
    >
    > > Spoiler Space (For those folks that may still want to see it, but
    > > haven't yet)...
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    >
    > > The Emperor, Darth Sideous. Jedi of the dark side aren't cowards,
    > > just like their counterparts on the light side. So when he
    > > begged for his life after Windu defeated him
    >
    > An act to turn Anakin to his side and distract Windu.

    He's a wily one that Emperor.

    > > Padme. She dies of a broken heart.
    >
    > Did she? I thought she died in a difficult childbirth, after running
    around
    > under an enormous about of stress.

    Not to mention that whole choking thing..


    John


    John
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "John Phillips" <jsphillips1@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    news:g5tme.264598$cg1.82258@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    > Not to mention that whole choking thing..

    Some chicks like that sort of thing.

    --
    ^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishment the scroll,
    I am the Master of my fate:
    I am the Captain of my soul.

    from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:33:49 GMT, Matt Frisch
    <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:

    >On Sun, 29 May 2005 22:40:40 GMT, Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net>
    >scribed into the ether:
    >
    >>
    >>O.K. so me and my wife finally make our way down to the local
    >>theatre complex to screen Star Wars:Revenge of the Sith and...
    >>well...
    >>
    >>Industrial Light & Magic is truly a spectacular company worthy of
    >>both honors and accolades, as is Skywalker Sound. The folks
    >>working at these places, saved the film from being doomed, and it
    >>was almost enough to make this episode of the Star Wars saga into
    >>the best, but it didn't quite turn out that way.
    >
    >You've actually got it backwards. If the technical competence of ILM wasn't
    >so high, then Lucas would have needed to fortify the movie with actual
    >dialogue and a better plot outline, because he couldn't hide behind
    >effects.

    There is another perfectly viable alternative. He could have failed.
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Malachias Invictus wrote:
    > John Phillips wrote:
    >
    >> Not to mention that whole choking thing..
    >
    > Some chicks like that sort of thing.

    That's true. Though . . . maybe not to the point of death. ;)

    --
    Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
    What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you
    understand?
    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigeclasslist.html
    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatelist.html

    Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the
    leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
    and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to
    danger. It works the same in any country.
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Sun, 29 May 2005 22:40:40 GMT, Dirk Collins
    <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:

    >The Emperor, Darth Sideous. Jedi of the dark side aren't cowards,
    > just like their counterparts on the light side. So when he
    >begged for his life after Windu defeated him, it destroyed the
    >suspenion of disbelief for me, in his ability to to rise up and
    >rule such vast interstellar empire in the first place. Surely this
    >cowardice would have revealed itself at a sooner time and place,
    >given the challenges it would take to rise in power in the first
    >place.

    Sideous wasn't begging for his life. He had nothing to fear. He was
    calling to Anakin to get him to stand up against a Jedi Master. Once
    Anakin did this, Sideous easily blew Windu right out the window. He
    could just as easily have done this earlier, but he was still working
    on Anakin. By doing this, he made the Jedi look like the evil
    aggressors, ready to kill a defenseless old man.


    >When Padme dies during childbirth, it would be impossible for Leia
    >to know her mother at all (Since padme wasn't strong with the
    >force, or trained in it's use.) The Episode III story continuity
    >(and believeability) dies some more here.

    Apparently the woman she remembered was not Padme, but Senator
    Organa's wife. They brought Leia up as their own, and it appears she
    never knew they weren't her real parents. (Or she did, but still
    thinks of Organa as her mother, even if biologically she wasn't.)
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Mon, 30 May 2005 00:23:23 +0100, David Dorward <dorward@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    >Dirk Collins wrote:
    >
    >> Spoiler Space (For those folks that may still want to see it, but
    >> haven't yet)...
    >>
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    >
    >Did she? I thought she died in a difficult childbirth, after running around
    >under an enormous about of stress.

    The doctors mentioned that there was nothing wrong with her
    physically, but they were losing her anyway, because she had lost the
    will to live.

    >He's turned into a powermad loony determined to wipe out the Jedi and the
    >Senate and rule the universe and you expect her to go "That's nice dear,
    >bug give me a hug first"?

    She was giving him the benefit of the doubt right up until he started
    accusing her of siding with Obi-wan and then started strangling her
    when Obi-wan showed up.
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Mon, 30 May 2005 00:40:23 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston)
    scribed into the ether:

    >On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:33:49 GMT, Matt Frisch
    ><matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sun, 29 May 2005 22:40:40 GMT, Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net>
    >>scribed into the ether:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>O.K. so me and my wife finally make our way down to the local
    >>>theatre complex to screen Star Wars:Revenge of the Sith and...
    >>>well...
    >>>
    >>>Industrial Light & Magic is truly a spectacular company worthy of
    >>>both honors and accolades, as is Skywalker Sound. The folks
    >>>working at these places, saved the film from being doomed, and it
    >>>was almost enough to make this episode of the Star Wars saga into
    >>>the best, but it didn't quite turn out that way.
    >>
    >>You've actually got it backwards. If the technical competence of ILM wasn't
    >>so high, then Lucas would have needed to fortify the movie with actual
    >>dialogue and a better plot outline, because he couldn't hide behind
    >>effects.
    >
    >There is another perfectly viable alternative. He could have failed.

    You really think the movie (or any of the prequels, really) would have been
    released without all the CGI to prop them up?

    How well would any of them have done without the Star Wars title? Pretty
    bad, is my guess.
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Mon, 30 May 2005 00:23:23 +0100, David Dorward <dorward@yahoo.com>
    scribed into the ether:

    >Dirk Collins wrote:
    >
    >> Spoiler Space (For those folks that may still want to see it, but
    >> haven't yet)...
    >>
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    >> ...
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    >


    >> Padme. She dies of a broken heart.
    >
    >Did she? I thought she died in a difficult childbirth, after running around
    >under an enormous about of stress.

    The medical droid says that there is nothing physically wrong with her, and
    that she has lost the will to live. If it were physically possible, my eyes
    would have rolled straight out of my head.

    >> When Padme dies during childbirth, it would be impossible for Leia
    >> to know her mother at all
    >
    >So she imagined it. Or it had something to do with Leia's sensitivity to the
    >force.

    Or Lucas is a twit.
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Chad Lubrecht <chad.lubrecht@verizon.net> wrote:
    > On Mon, 30 May 2005 00:23:23 +0100, David Dorward <dorward@yahoo.com>
    > wrote:
    >>Dirk Collins wrote:
    >>
    >>> Spoiler Space (For those folks that may still want to see it, but
    >>> haven't yet)...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> ...
    >>>
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    >>
    >>Did she? I thought she died in a difficult childbirth, after running around
    >>under an enormous about of stress.
    >
    > The doctors mentioned that there was nothing wrong with her
    > physically, but they were losing her anyway, because she had lost the
    > will to live.

    That scene is in my opinion by far the worst scene in the film. I can't
    begin to count how many things were wrong with it. Lucas clearly had no
    idea what to do with it, but it had to be in the movie, so it ended up
    appalingly bad.

    The only other contenders for the title of worst scene are most of
    the love scenes between Anakin and Padme. Lucas clearly doesn't have
    the faintest clue how to make a love story.

    >>He's turned into a powermad loony determined to wipe out the Jedi and the
    >>Senate and rule the universe and you expect her to go "That's nice dear,
    >>bug give me a hug first"?
    >
    > She was giving him the benefit of the doubt right up until he started
    > accusing her of siding with Obi-wan and then started strangling her
    > when Obi-wan showed up.

    That was quite clearly and irrevocably the end of their relationship,
    and dieing of a broken heart doesn't sound too unreasonable after this,
    if only George Lucas had written (or had someone else write) a halfway
    believable love story in the first place.

    In general, though, I enjoyed the film quite a lot and consider it
    better than RotJ. Had someone else written the script and directed
    it, it could have been the best Star Wars film ever, but the many,
    many really, really bad moments made it fall far short.


    mcv.
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Chad Lubrecht <chad.lubrecht@verizon.net> wrote:
    > On Sun, 29 May 2005 22:40:40 GMT, Dirk Collins
    > <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:
    >
    >>The Emperor, Darth Sideous. Jedi of the dark side aren't cowards,
    >> just like their counterparts on the light side. So when he
    >>begged for his life after Windu defeated him, it destroyed the
    >>suspenion of disbelief for me, in his ability to to rise up and
    >>rule such vast interstellar empire in the first place. Surely this
    >>cowardice would have revealed itself at a sooner time and place,
    >>given the challenges it would take to rise in power in the first
    >>place.
    >
    > Sideous wasn't begging for his life. He had nothing to fear. He was
    > calling to Anakin to get him to stand up against a Jedi Master. Once
    > Anakin did this, Sideous easily blew Windu right out the window. He
    > could just as easily have done this earlier, but he was still working
    > on Anakin. By doing this, he made the Jedi look like the evil
    > aggressors, ready to kill a defenseless old man.

    I hadn't considered that point of view, and it's a pretty good one,
    although it doesn't explain Plpatine's sudden disfiguring.

    I assumed that Palpatine used too much oof his power to defeat the
    other Jedi, enabling Mace to defeat him. To prevent Mace from killing
    him, he tapped so deeply into the force that he used his own life
    energy (or some other excuse) which resulted in his disfigurement.

    And I really don't see why he shouldn't be afraid. He never was
    afraid because he was always in control. If Mace is really capable
    of and willing to kill him, just when he's on the verge of assuming
    total power, I don't blame him for begging for his life, just like
    I can understand Mace wanting him dead at any cost. Ofcourse all of
    this added up to convincing Anakin that the Jedi's aren't as good
    as they claim to be, and Palpatine therefore not being as bad, so
    he interfered, left the Jedi and joined Palpatine.

    But the explanation that Palpatine planned it all works too.


    mcv.
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    mcv wrote:
    >
    > I hadn't considered that point of view, and it's a pretty good one,
    > although it doesn't explain Plpatine's sudden disfiguring.
    >
    > I assumed that Palpatine used too much oof his power to defeat the
    > other Jedi, enabling Mace to defeat him. To prevent Mace from killing
    > him, he tapped so deeply into the force that he used his own life
    > energy (or some other excuse) which resulted in his disfigurement.
    >

    (note: I haven't seen Ep3 yet)

    I have always assumed, since I saw Ep1 on opening night, that his
    disfigured form is his true form, and that what we see when he's being
    Senator/Chancellor Palpatine is not his true form.

    In the scenes where we see the hologram of Sidious in Eps 1 and 2, his
    lower face is the same misshapen form and speaking mannerism that we see
    in Ep6. It does not appear, to me, to be exactly like the lower face of
    Senator/Chancellor Palpatine in the rest of Eps 1 and 2.

    My conclusion was that the "Senator/Chancellor Palpatine" form is a
    force generated disguise which masks his true nature and identity (and
    probably his "alignment"/"allegiance" as well ... part of that whole
    thing said in Ep1 about how the dark side is clouding things and the
    Jedi can no longer see the big picture), and his true shape. It's
    generally _like_ his true form, but it is more charismatic and
    attractive than his true form (it certainly has better posture than his
    true form). What we see in Ep6, and what is behind the cloak in Eps 1
    and 2, are his true form.

    So, during this fight, maybe Palpatine/Sidious loses enough energy that
    he can't mask himself anymore, or he thinks is a good moment to reveal
    that form for some purpose (to look more pathetic to Anakin?), or
    because he can't maintain his disguise while directing more of his power
    toward turning Anakin. Maybe it takes enough of his effort that once
    he's really applying his full effort to fighting, he can't keep the
    disguise up.

    Anyways ... the comments I've seen about him becoming disfigured seem to
    be backward to me. I think he was disfigured since the first time we
    saw him (in hologram).
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@earthlink.net> wrote:
    >
    > Spoiler Space (For those folks that may still want to see it, but
    > haven't yet)...
    >
    >
    >
    > ...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ...
    >
    >
    > The screenwriting was atrocious

    It was bad, but not quite as atrocious as in AotC. It was mostly the
    love scenes that failed completely.

    > Here are some especially weak points in this story;
    >
    > Mace Windu turns away from being a Jedi Master, and following the
    > path of light and all, and turns into a murderous killer for no
    > good reason at all (Except to advance the plot a bit.)

    Apart from being a very important point in the plot, and the last
    straw for Anakin to lose all confidence in the Jedi, Mace certainly
    has plenty of reason for this. Not good enough from a pure good
    jedi point of view, but these are dark an confusing times, and he
    finally found and barely defeated the cause of all this. I'm not
    surprised he's pretty mad.

    > I mean come
    > on... Here's the guy that handed the emperor his own a$$ in record
    > time, as he had successfully defeated the Sith Lord in a brief
    > single combat.

    He entered the room with a lot of other jedi, all of whom are now
    dead. I wouldn't call that an easy victory. Give Palpatine time
    to recover, and you might need another army of Jedi to defeat him
    again.

    > There was no need to kill the whining gollum that
    > the emperor had been reduced to. Assassins rank better than the
    > fallen Windu, for at least they kill for a reason: money.
    > Lightsaber off, electronic cuffs, on, baby.

    With all of Palpatines claws in the government, Mace may not trust
    the justice system of the Republic. Besides, how much use do you
    think cuffs will be?

    > The Emperor, Darth Sideous. Jedi of the dark side aren't cowards,

    As explained in another part of this thread, I really don't see
    why Palpatine wouldn't beg for his life when it really looks like
    he's about to lose it.

    > Stupid Jedi. Throughout the early story, all of the best Jedi work
    > as a team, in pairs, or in small groups to protect each other. As
    > the story unfolds, most of the Jedi are assassinated by clones
    > when they are running around without any other Jedi around to
    > protect them.

    They had clones around them to protect them. That said, those scenes
    aren't very good, too short, too repetitive, etc. The idea is clear
    and not all that bad (although I thought Vader had hunted down and
    killed all remaining Jedi), but not very well executed.

    > Anakin. Turning over to the dark side without at least a fight
    > with the emperor was anti-climatic, and this took away from the
    > story as well.

    Why? I really don't see this.

    > Going in, I incorrectly guessed that the emperor
    > had lured Obi-Wan and Anakin away from Padme, and that she was
    > injured while pregnant, and that Obi-Wan had prevented Anakin from
    > returning to aid her when she was in need, and this is the rift
    > between Obi-Wan and Anakin that the emporer turned to his
    > advantage in the final confrontation. Too bad the story didn't
    > work out that way, as it would have played better.

    So basically, your objection is that Lucas didn't consult you before
    making this film. I'd expected a different story than this, but also
    a very different story from the one you're proposing. But I don't
    mind some surprises during the film. The turning of Anakin worked
    well enough (although it had a few weak moments).

    > The special effects somewhat made up for the terrible script, but
    > I found the re-entry of the seperatist flagship piloted by Obi-Wan
    > and Anakin distracting, since all I could think about was the
    > Columbia disaster while watching this. That scene should have been
    > omitted entirely.

    I'd completely forgot about this scene. A clear sign that it could
    indeed have been omitted, just like many, many other scenes. In my
    opinion, the whole General Grievous bit didn't have to be in this
    film. That would have given more time for doing the essentials
    properly.

    > The rest of the special effects were awesome,
    > will require a review when ROTS comes out on video (To be mined
    > for good ideas) and I liked General Greivious character quite a
    > bit, especially while wielding the lightsabres in the
    > confrontation with Obi-Wan.

    i'm not a big fan of Grievous. Some bits of that were good, but
    I could have done without him.


    mcv.
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    mcv wrote:
    > Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@earthlink.net> wrote:
    >
    >>Spoiler Space (For those folks that may still want to see it, but
    >>haven't yet)...
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>...
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>...
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>...
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>...
    >>
    >>There was no need to kill the whining gollum that
    >>the emperor had been reduced to. Assassins rank better than the
    >>fallen Windu, for at least they kill for a reason: money.
    >>Lightsaber off, electronic cuffs, on, baby.
    >
    >
    > With all of Palpatines claws in the government, Mace may not trust
    > the justice system of the Republic. Besides, how much use do you
    > think cuffs will be?
    >
    >

    And, given the history between the Sith and Jedi (that Lucas assumes but
    doesn't really explain), do we know whether or not there is a protocol
    for this situation? Is there any allowed solution than "execute the
    Sith, they're too dangerous to live"?
  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    mcv wrote:
    >
    > I hadn't considered that point of view, and it's a pretty good one,
    > although it doesn't explain Plpatine's sudden disfiguring.

    Reflected lightning from Mace's saber, perhaps? Or a deliberate ploy to increase
    his chance of winning Anakin's sympathy?

    --
    Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
    What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you
    understand?
    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigeclasslist.html
    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatelist.html

    Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the
    leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
    and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to
    danger. It works the same in any country.
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    In article <Ixrme.9939$uR4.6381@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
    dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net wrote:

    >O.K. so me and my wife finally make our way down to the local
    >theatre complex to screen Star Wars:Revenge of the Sith and...
    >well...
    >
    >The screenwriting was atrocious and continuity on the storyline as
    >a whole was equally bad. I sure hope there isn't another episode
    >in production now. As far as I'm concerned, it's the last Star
    >Wars movie I'll be paying to see if George Lucas is the head
    >screenwriter on the project.
    >
    >My wife said (prior to our viewing) that this episode will answer
    >all our questions about the story to date. I just laughed on
    >account of some of the commentary here I had read prior to our
    >engagement with the film.
    >
    >Here are some especially weak points in this story;
    >
    >Mace Windu turns away from being a Jedi Master, and following the
    >path of light and all, and turns into a murderous killer for no
    >good reason at all (Except to advance the plot a bit.) I mean come
    >on... Here's the guy that handed the emperor his own a$$ in record
    >time, as he had successfully defeated the Sith Lord in a brief
    >single combat. There was no need to kill the whining gollum that
    >the emperor had been reduced to. Assassins rank better than the
    >fallen Windu, for at least they kill for a reason: money.
    >Lightsaber off, electronic cuffs, on, baby. For the record, I
    >think Samuel Jackson is a superb actor, it's a shame he had to
    >contend with such a terrible script. No chance to act with that
    >drivel.
    >
    >The Emperor, Darth Sideous. Jedi of the dark side aren't cowards,
    > just like their counterparts on the light side. So when he
    >begged for his life after Windu defeated him, it destroyed the
    >suspenion of disbelief for me, in his ability to to rise up and
    >rule such vast interstellar empire in the first place. Surely this
    >cowardice would have revealed itself at a sooner time and place,
    >given the challenges it would take to rise in power in the first
    >place.
    >
    >Stupid Jedi. Throughout the early story, all of the best Jedi work
    >as a team, in pairs, or in small groups to protect each other. As
    >the story unfolds, most of the Jedi are assassinated by clones
    >when they are running around without any other Jedi around to
    >protect them. This violates a basic tenet of common security that
    >was established by the Jedi in earlier scenes and episodes. One
    >would think that after Geonosis, the Jedi would be keeping closer
    >tabs on each other, especially after the significant losses
    >incurred during the battle for Geonosis.
    >
    >Padme. She dies of a broken heart. Please. She's got a guy that
    >takes control of a vast interstellar empire wrapped around her
    >finger already, a guy that can fight and win, and who is also an
    >excellent negotiator, a guy who also has accurate premonitions and
    >can see into the future. Now he says he has taken over the Empire
    >in order to protect her and the children, and she is going to not
    >believe him, and stop loving him for that? I don't buy it. To add
    >insult to injury, in Episode VI, Leah was asked by Luke at the
    >Ewok village if she knew her mother;
    >
    >LUKE
    > Leia... do you remember your mother? Your
    > real mother?
    >
    > LEIA
    > Just a little bit. She died when I was very
    > young.
    >
    > LUKE
    > What do you remember?
    >
    > LEIA
    > Just...images, really. Feelings.
    >
    > LUKE
    > Tell me.
    >
    > LEIA
    > (a little surprised at his insistence)
    > She was very beautiful. Kind, but...sad.
    > (looks up) Why are you asking me all this?
    >
    > He looks away.
    >
    >When Padme dies during childbirth, it would be impossible for Leia
    >to know her mother at all (Since padme wasn't strong with the
    >force, or trained in it's use.) The Episode III story continuity
    >(and believeability) dies some more here.
    >
    >Anakin. Turning over to the dark side without at least a fight
    >with the emperor was anti-climatic, and this took away from the
    >story as well. Going in, I incorrectly guessed that the emperor
    >had lured Obi-Wan and Anakin away from Padme, and that she was
    >injured while pregnant, and that Obi-Wan had prevented Anakin from
    >returning to aid her when she was in need, and this is the rift
    >between Obi-Wan and Anakin that the emporer turned to his
    >advantage in the final confrontation. Too bad the story didn't
    >work out that way, as it would have played better.
    >
    >The special effects somewhat made up for the terrible script, but
    >I found the re-entry of the seperatist flagship piloted by Obi-Wan
    >and Anakin distracting, since all I could think about was the
    >Columbia disaster while watching this. That scene should have been
    >omitted entirely. The rest of the special effects were awesome,
    >will require a review when ROTS comes out on video (To be mined
    >for good ideas) and I liked General Greivious character quite a
    >bit, especially while wielding the lightsabres in the
    >confrontation with Obi-Wan.

    And you're posting this here because...?

    --
    It is simply breathtaking to watch the glee and abandon with which
    the liberal media and the Angry Left have been attempting to turn
    our military victory in Iraq into a second Vietnam quagmire. Too bad
    for them, it's failing.
  19. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On 30 May 2005 10:01:24 GMT, mcv <mcvmcv@xs4all.nl> scribed into the ether:

    >Chad Lubrecht <chad.lubrecht@verizon.net> wrote:
    >> On Sun, 29 May 2005 22:40:40 GMT, Dirk Collins
    >> <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:
    >>
    >>>The Emperor, Darth Sideous. Jedi of the dark side aren't cowards,
    >>> just like their counterparts on the light side. So when he
    >>>begged for his life after Windu defeated him, it destroyed the
    >>>suspenion of disbelief for me, in his ability to to rise up and
    >>>rule such vast interstellar empire in the first place. Surely this
    >>>cowardice would have revealed itself at a sooner time and place,
    >>>given the challenges it would take to rise in power in the first
    >>>place.
    >>
    >> Sideous wasn't begging for his life. He had nothing to fear. He was
    >> calling to Anakin to get him to stand up against a Jedi Master. Once
    >> Anakin did this, Sideous easily blew Windu right out the window. He
    >> could just as easily have done this earlier, but he was still working
    >> on Anakin. By doing this, he made the Jedi look like the evil
    >> aggressors, ready to kill a defenseless old man.
    >
    >I hadn't considered that point of view, and it's a pretty good one,
    >although it doesn't explain Plpatine's sudden disfiguring.
    >
    >I assumed that Palpatine used too much oof his power to defeat the
    >other Jedi, enabling Mace to defeat him.

    He smacked the other three around like the proverbial red-headed
    stepchildren. Mace is just a can of whoop-ass waiting to be opened. Hell,
    he did better than Yoda.

    > To prevent Mace from killing
    >him, he tapped so deeply into the force that he used his own life
    >energy (or some other excuse) which resulted in his disfigurement.

    Or his force lightning was reflected back at him by Mace's force power
    and/or lightsaber, and he was getting a dollop of his own medicine. Seemed
    pretty obvious to me.
  20. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On 30 May 2005 10:17:34 GMT, mcv <mcvmcv@xs4all.nl> scribed into the ether:

    >Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@earthlink.net> wrote:
    >>
    >> Spoiler Space (For those folks that may still want to see it, but
    >> haven't yet)...
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> ...
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> ...
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> ...
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> ...
    >>
    >>
    >> Mace Windu turns away from being a Jedi Master, and following the
    >> path of light and all, and turns into a murderous killer for no
    >> good reason at all (Except to advance the plot a bit.)
    >
    >Apart from being a very important point in the plot, and the last
    >straw for Anakin to lose all confidence in the Jedi, Mace certainly
    >has plenty of reason for this. Not good enough from a pure good
    >jedi point of view, but these are dark an confusing times, and he
    >finally found and barely defeated the cause of all this. I'm not
    >surprised he's pretty mad.

    The thing that I was thinking at the time is: If they take him prisoner,
    what the hell are they going to do with him!?

    I mean, it's not like you can just lock him up in a cell and that's the end
    of it. Leaving aside his formidable political power (and the possibility
    that he might not be convicted of anything), there is his personal power
    which is also quite strong. He could blast down any normal guards, and
    probably most jedi guards as well.
  21. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Mon, 30 May 2005 14:28:45 GMT, Matt Frisch
    <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:

    >On 30 May 2005 10:17:34 GMT, mcv <mcvmcv@xs4all.nl> scribed into the ether:
    >
    >>Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@earthlink.net> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Spoiler Space (For those folks that may still want to see it, but
    >>> haven't yet)...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> ...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> ...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> ...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> ...
    >>>
    >>>

    >The thing that I was thinking at the time is: If they take him prisoner,
    >what the hell are they going to do with him!?

    I do get the sense that maybe Annakin wasn't the only Jedi falling to
    the dark side there. Windu used almost the same line justifying why he
    had to kill Palpatine that Palpatine had given Annakin after he killed
    Dooku.
  22. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    In article <EKmdnZlscqToYAffRVn-1Q@speakeasy.net>,
    John Rudd <john@rudd.cc> wrote:

    > mcv wrote:
    > >
    > > I hadn't considered that point of view, and it's a pretty good one,
    > > although it doesn't explain Plpatine's sudden disfiguring.
    > >
    > > I assumed that Palpatine used too much oof his power to defeat the
    > > other Jedi, enabling Mace to defeat him. To prevent Mace from killing
    > > him, he tapped so deeply into the force that he used his own life
    > > energy (or some other excuse) which resulted in his disfigurement.
    > >
    >
    > (note: I haven't seen Ep3 yet)
    >
    > I have always assumed, since I saw Ep1 on opening night, that his
    > disfigured form is his true form, and that what we see when he's being
    > Senator/Chancellor Palpatine is not his true form.

    I'm almost positive that in one of the various books about ROTS (the
    visual guide book or the "Art of" or something like that) says exactly
    this - That Palpatine has been disguising his true appearance this whole
    time.
  23. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Christopher Adams" <mhacdebhandia@yahoo.invalid> wrote in message
    news:0Ztme.6625$BR4.3847@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
    > Malachias Invictus wrote:
    >> John Phillips wrote:
    >>
    >>> Not to mention that whole choking thing..
    >>
    >> Some chicks like that sort of thing.
    >
    > That's true. Though . . . maybe not to the point of death. ;)

    Generally not.

    --
    ^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishment the scroll,
    I am the Master of my fate:
    I am the Captain of my soul.

    from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
  24. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    mcv wrote:
    > Chad Lubrecht <chad.lubrecht@verizon.net> wrote:
    > > On Mon, 30 May 2005 00:23:23 +0100, David Dorward <dorward@yahoo.com>
    > > wrote:
    > >>Dirk Collins wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> Spoiler Space (For those folks that may still want to see it, but
    > >>> haven't yet)...
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>> ...
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>> ...
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>> ...
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>> ...
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >>Did she? I thought she died in a difficult childbirth, after running around
    > >>under an enormous about of stress.
    > >
    > > The doctors mentioned that there was nothing wrong with her
    > > physically, but they were losing her anyway, because she had lost the
    > > will to live.
    >
    > That scene is in my opinion by far the worst scene in the film. I can't
    > begin to count how many things were wrong with it. Lucas clearly had no
    > idea what to do with it, but it had to be in the movie, so it ended up
    > appalingly bad.
    >
    > The only other contenders for the title of worst scene are most of
    > the love scenes between Anakin and Padme. Lucas clearly doesn't have
    > the faintest clue how to make a love story.
    >

    He's single. What would you expect?
  25. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Ubiquitous wrote:
    > In article <Ixrme.9939$uR4.6381@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
    > dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net wrote:
    >
    > >O.K. so me and my wife finally make our way down to the local
    > >theatre complex to screen Star Wars:Revenge of the Sith and...
    > >well...
    > >
    > >The screenwriting was atrocious and continuity on the storyline as
    > >a whole was equally bad. I sure hope there isn't another episode
    > >in production now. As far as I'm concerned, it's the last Star
    > >Wars movie I'll be paying to see if George Lucas is the head
    > >screenwriter on the project.
    > >
    > >My wife said (prior to our viewing) that this episode will answer
    > >all our questions about the story to date. I just laughed on
    > >account of some of the commentary here I had read prior to our
    > >engagement with the film.
    > >
    > >Here are some especially weak points in this story;
    > >
    > >Mace Windu turns away from being a Jedi Master, and following the
    > >path of light and all, and turns into a murderous killer for no
    > >good reason at all (Except to advance the plot a bit.) I mean come
    > >on... Here's the guy that handed the emperor his own a$$ in record
    > >time, as he had successfully defeated the Sith Lord in a brief
    > >single combat. There was no need to kill the whining gollum that
    > >the emperor had been reduced to. Assassins rank better than the
    > >fallen Windu, for at least they kill for a reason: money.
    > >Lightsaber off, electronic cuffs, on, baby. For the record, I
    > >think Samuel Jackson is a superb actor, it's a shame he had to
    > >contend with such a terrible script. No chance to act with that
    > >drivel.
    > >
    > >The Emperor, Darth Sideous. Jedi of the dark side aren't cowards,
    > > just like their counterparts on the light side. So when he
    > >begged for his life after Windu defeated him, it destroyed the
    > >suspenion of disbelief for me, in his ability to to rise up and
    > >rule such vast interstellar empire in the first place. Surely this
    > >cowardice would have revealed itself at a sooner time and place,
    > >given the challenges it would take to rise in power in the first
    > >place.
    > >
    > >Stupid Jedi. Throughout the early story, all of the best Jedi work
    > >as a team, in pairs, or in small groups to protect each other. As
    > >the story unfolds, most of the Jedi are assassinated by clones
    > >when they are running around without any other Jedi around to
    > >protect them. This violates a basic tenet of common security that
    > >was established by the Jedi in earlier scenes and episodes. One
    > >would think that after Geonosis, the Jedi would be keeping closer
    > >tabs on each other, especially after the significant losses
    > >incurred during the battle for Geonosis.
    > >
    > >Padme. She dies of a broken heart. Please. She's got a guy that
    > >takes control of a vast interstellar empire wrapped around her
    > >finger already, a guy that can fight and win, and who is also an
    > >excellent negotiator, a guy who also has accurate premonitions and
    > >can see into the future. Now he says he has taken over the Empire
    > >in order to protect her and the children, and she is going to not
    > >believe him, and stop loving him for that? I don't buy it. To add
    > >insult to injury, in Episode VI, Leah was asked by Luke at the
    > >Ewok village if she knew her mother;
    > >
    > >LUKE
    > > Leia... do you remember your mother? Your
    > > real mother?
    > >
    > > LEIA
    > > Just a little bit. She died when I was very
    > > young.
    > >
    > > LUKE
    > > What do you remember?
    > >
    > > LEIA
    > > Just...images, really. Feelings.
    > >
    > > LUKE
    > > Tell me.
    > >
    > > LEIA
    > > (a little surprised at his insistence)
    > > She was very beautiful. Kind, but...sad.
    > > (looks up) Why are you asking me all this?
    > >
    > > He looks away.
    > >
    > >When Padme dies during childbirth, it would be impossible for Leia
    > >to know her mother at all (Since padme wasn't strong with the
    > >force, or trained in it's use.) The Episode III story continuity
    > >(and believeability) dies some more here.
    > >
    > >Anakin. Turning over to the dark side without at least a fight
    > >with the emperor was anti-climatic, and this took away from the
    > >story as well. Going in, I incorrectly guessed that the emperor
    > >had lured Obi-Wan and Anakin away from Padme, and that she was
    > >injured while pregnant, and that Obi-Wan had prevented Anakin from
    > >returning to aid her when she was in need, and this is the rift
    > >between Obi-Wan and Anakin that the emporer turned to his
    > >advantage in the final confrontation. Too bad the story didn't
    > >work out that way, as it would have played better.
    > >
    > >The special effects somewhat made up for the terrible script, but
    > >I found the re-entry of the seperatist flagship piloted by Obi-Wan
    > >and Anakin distracting, since all I could think about was the
    > >Columbia disaster while watching this. That scene should have been
    > >omitted entirely. The rest of the special effects were awesome,
    > >will require a review when ROTS comes out on video (To be mined
    > >for good ideas) and I liked General Greivious character quite a
    > >bit, especially while wielding the lightsabres in the
    > >confrontation with Obi-Wan.
    >
    > And you're posting this here because...?
    >

    He can. And it's more on topic here than the political drooling in
    your sig and setting followups to irrelevant newsgroups.
  26. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:16:19 GMT, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> scribed
    into the ether:

    >John Rudd wrote:

    >> So, during this fight, maybe Palpatine/Sidious loses enough energy that
    >> he can't mask himself anymore, or he thinks is a good moment to reveal
    >> that form for some purpose (to look more pathetic to Anakin?), or
    >> because he can't maintain his disguise while directing more of his power
    >> toward turning Anakin. Maybe it takes enough of his effort that once
    >> he's really applying his full effort to fighting, he can't keep the
    >> disguise up.
    >
    >> Anyways ... the comments I've seen about him becoming disfigured seem to
    >> be backward to me. I think he was disfigured since the first time we
    >> saw him (in hologram).
    >
    >Also, did I mention I like Episode 1? And I find Lucas's more recent
    >explanations about the nature of the Force and the Dark Side more
    >satisfying than the Dark Side / Light Side dichtonomy EU writers like to
    >present?

    Which explanation is this?

    >In fact, I'm looking forward to this Episode Zero thing, which
    >apparently is going to be set 800 years before RotS and will star a
    >young Yoda as he helps overthrow the Sith lords and makes way for the
    >establishment of the Republic.

    Uh...the Jedi are described as the defenders of the republic for a thousand
    GENERATIONS. That's ~20,000 years. Even ignoring the EU stuff which has the
    Republic going back a long, long ways, that particular gem comes from Ep4.
    Of course, Lucas is hardly one to pay attention to the continuity of his
    own movies.

    Just what we need, more excuses for Lucas to replace story with CGI...an
    entire movie about Yoda. Yes, he managed to wreck Yoda too.
  27. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Matt Frisch wrote:
    > On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:16:19 GMT, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> scribed
    > into the ether:
    >
    > >John Rudd wrote:
    >
    > >> So, during this fight, maybe Palpatine/Sidious loses enough energy that
    > >> he can't mask himself anymore, or he thinks is a good moment to reveal
    > >> that form for some purpose (to look more pathetic to Anakin?), or
    > >> because he can't maintain his disguise while directing more of his power
    > >> toward turning Anakin. Maybe it takes enough of his effort that once
    > >> he's really applying his full effort to fighting, he can't keep the
    > >> disguise up.
    > >
    > >> Anyways ... the comments I've seen about him becoming disfigured seem to
    > >> be backward to me. I think he was disfigured since the first time we
    > >> saw him (in hologram).
    > >
    > >Also, did I mention I like Episode 1? And I find Lucas's more recent
    > >explanations about the nature of the Force and the Dark Side more
    > >satisfying than the Dark Side / Light Side dichtonomy EU writers like to
    > >present?
    >
    > Which explanation is this?
    >
    > >In fact, I'm looking forward to this Episode Zero thing, which
    > >apparently is going to be set 800 years before RotS and will star a
    > >young Yoda as he helps overthrow the Sith lords and makes way for the
    > >establishment of the Republic.
    >
    > Uh...the Jedi are described as the defenders of the republic for a thousand
    > GENERATIONS. That's ~20,000 years. Even ignoring the EU stuff which has the
    > Republic going back a long, long ways, that particular gem comes from Ep4.
    > Of course, Lucas is hardly one to pay attention to the continuity of his
    > own movies.
    >
    > Just what we need, more excuses for Lucas to replace story with CGI...an
    > entire movie about Yoda. Yes, he managed to wreck Yoda too.

    I always get a kick out of reading people slamming George Lucas because
    he somehow messed with "their" Star Wars. The fact of the matter is,
    if it wasn't for the "stupid" George Lucas, you wouldn't have even
    cared about Star Wars nearly three decades after the fact. The
    original trilogy is just fun popcorn movies with some deeper messages
    from mythology. They were great to immerse oneself in for a few hours
    to see a grand moral tale being told in space opera style. They
    weren't known for their dialogue or for great acting. Don't believe
    me? Look at Mark Hammill again in _The Empire Strikes Back_ (usually
    agreed to be either the best or second best SW movie after ANH). His
    acting after learning Darth Vader was his father is pathetic and it
    cracks me up every time I see him screaming "Noooo."

    *Of course* the prequel triology would never meet peoples'
    expectations. They spent two decades building up this idea that the
    original trilogy was somehow "deep cinema" and that nostalgia factor
    made many hostile to the inevitable let down. Some parts of the
    prequels were just as good as anything from the OT and the only reason
    you believe it wasn't was simply because the original Star Wars pretty
    much blew people away back in the late 70's. It was never done before
    and most of us were kids at the time.

    After seeing Episode III, I just can't rewatch the original trilogy's
    lightsaber battles and get excited anymore. Lucas can make Star Wars
    movies for the rest of his life and everyone who bitches will still go
    and see them.
  28. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Mon, 30 May 2005 21:30:57 GMT, Matt Frisch
    <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:

    >On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:16:19 GMT, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> scribed
    >into the ether:
    >
    >>John Rudd wrote:
    >
    >>> So, during this fight, maybe Palpatine/Sidious loses enough energy that
    >>> he can't mask himself anymore, or he thinks is a good moment to reveal
    >>> that form for some purpose (to look more pathetic to Anakin?), or
    >>> because he can't maintain his disguise while directing more of his power
    >>> toward turning Anakin. Maybe it takes enough of his effort that once
    >>> he's really applying his full effort to fighting, he can't keep the
    >>> disguise up.
    >>
    >>> Anyways ... the comments I've seen about him becoming disfigured seem to
    >>> be backward to me. I think he was disfigured since the first time we
    >>> saw him (in hologram).
    >>
    >>Also, did I mention I like Episode 1? And I find Lucas's more recent
    >>explanations about the nature of the Force and the Dark Side more
    >>satisfying than the Dark Side / Light Side dichtonomy EU writers like to
    >>present?
    >
    >Which explanation is this?
    >
    >>In fact, I'm looking forward to this Episode Zero thing, which
    >>apparently is going to be set 800 years before RotS and will star a
    >>young Yoda as he helps overthrow the Sith lords and makes way for the
    >>establishment of the Republic.
    >
    >Uh...the Jedi are described as the defenders of the republic for a thousand
    >GENERATIONS. That's ~20,000 years.

    It is quite implausible that the Republic lasted continuously for all
    that time. There had to have been interregnums and restorations.
    Besides, maybe it was generations of mice.
  29. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
    news:2vpn91tpuf3teeihoop0ht8inr8geqm1gu@4ax.com...
    > Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> scribed into the ether:

    >>I like Episode 1 better than I like Episode 2,
    >
    > And I think they were both pretty awful. Ep2 had better action scenes, and
    > that's it.

    I cannot speak to Episode 2, as Episode 1 was so bloody awful that I decided
    not to bother with the rest.

    >>making a movie where the main character is CGI will probably result in a
    >>better narrative than the alternative.
    >
    > Alternatively, he could turn the writing over to someone who knows how to
    > write, and to a real director. A system which worked pretty flawlessly for
    > Ep5...take the Ewoks out of Ep6, and it works really well there too.

    Bingo.

    --
    ^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishment the scroll,
    I am the Master of my fate:
    I am the Captain of my soul.

    from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
  30. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Stephenls wrote:

    > In fact, I'm looking forward to this Episode Zero thing,

    I guess it's true, there ARE people who like being abused by
    people in authority.

    which
    > apparently is going to be set 800 years before RotS and will star a
    > young Yoda as he helps overthrow the Sith lords and makes way for the
    > establishment of the Republic.

    You mean, "... a young Yoda as he becomes a master of the Sith and
    prepares the way for the ultimate fall of the Old Republic" (which
    endured for THOUSANDS of years before TPM, so anything set a mere 800
    years back doesn't cut it)


    --
    Sea Wasp
    /^\
    ;;;
    Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
  31. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    David Johnston wrote:
    > On Mon, 30 May 2005 21:30:57 GMT, Matt Frisch
    > <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:

    >>Uh...the Jedi are described as the defenders of the republic for a thousand
    >>GENERATIONS. That's ~20,000 years.
    >
    >
    > It is quite implausible that the Republic lasted continuously for all
    > that time. There had to have been interregnums and restorations.

    Oh, yes, and psionic-mystical force wielders acting as cosmic
    policemen wielding super energy swords are so very much MORE plausible.


    --
    Sea Wasp
    /^\
    ;;;
    Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
  32. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Mon, 30 May 2005 23:20:26 GMT, Sea Wasp
    <seaobviouswasp@sgeobviousinc.com> wrote:

    >David Johnston wrote:
    >> On Mon, 30 May 2005 21:30:57 GMT, Matt Frisch
    >> <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
    >
    >>>Uh...the Jedi are described as the defenders of the republic for a thousand
    >>>GENERATIONS. That's ~20,000 years.
    >>
    >>
    >> It is quite implausible that the Republic lasted continuously for all
    >> that time. There had to have been interregnums and restorations.
    >
    > Oh, yes, and psionic-mystical force wielders acting as cosmic
    >policemen wielding super energy swords are so very much MORE plausible.

    I think so actually. After all, we've seen the Republic fall and be
    restored and the Sith took over on at least one other occasion. So in
    the context of the fictional reality in question, it is unlikely that
    the Republic had no previous collapses.
  33. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Mon, 30 May 2005 23:18:23 GMT, Sea Wasp
    <seaobviouswasp@sgeobviousinc.com> dared speak in front of ME:

    >Stephenls wrote:
    >
    >> In fact, I'm looking forward to this Episode Zero thing,
    >
    > I guess it's true, there ARE people who like being abused by
    >people in authority.
    >
    > which
    >> apparently is going to be set 800 years before RotS and will star a
    >> young Yoda as he helps overthrow the Sith lords and makes way for the
    >> establishment of the Republic.
    >
    > You mean, "... a young Yoda as he becomes a master of the Sith and
    >prepares the way for the ultimate fall of the Old Republic" (which
    >endured for THOUSANDS of years before TPM, so anything set a mere 800
    >years back doesn't cut it)

    Indeed. I mean, it's not as if Lucas has a history of retconning...

    --
    Address no longer works.
    try removing all numbers from
    gafgirl1@2allstream3.net

    --
    Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
    ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
    Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access
  34. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Suddenly, Matt Frisch, drunk as a lemur, stumbled out of the darkness and
    exclaimed:

    > Just what we need, more excuses for Lucas to replace story with CGI...an
    > entire movie about Yoda. Yes, he managed to wreck Yoda too.
    >

    I want to see a movie where Yoda teams up with Fozzie Bear and Grover.

    --
    Billy Yank

    Quinn: "I'm saying it's us, or them."
    Murphy: "Well I choose them."
    Q: "That's NOT an option!"
    M: "Then you shouldn't have framed it as one."
    -Sealab 2021

    Billy Yank's Baldur's Gate Photo Portraits
    http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2xvw6/
  35. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Stephenls wrote:
    > The end of Star Wars: Episode 6 is the
    > true end of the Sith, which wrecks the setting for RPG campaigns, but
    > Lucas isn't trying to write an RPG setting, is he?

    Only if you ignore Dark Empire ... which I think would have been a good
    basis for Eps 7-9 (though, not exactly in the same execution).
  36. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Alien mind control rays made Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@earthlink.net> write:
    > I sure hope there isn't another episode in production now.

    you know there will be, the end totally set up a sequel.

    *grin*

    --
    \^\ // drow@bin.sh (CARRIER LOST) <http://www.bin.sh/>
    \ // - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    // \ X-Windows: Form follows malfunction.
    // \_\ -- Dude from DPAK
  37. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Mon, 30 May 2005 22:08:04 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston)
    scribed into the ether:

    >On Mon, 30 May 2005 21:30:57 GMT, Matt Frisch
    ><matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
    >
    >>On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:16:19 GMT, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> scribed
    >>into the ether:
    >>
    >>>John Rudd wrote:

    >>>In fact, I'm looking forward to this Episode Zero thing, which
    >>>apparently is going to be set 800 years before RotS and will star a
    >>>young Yoda as he helps overthrow the Sith lords and makes way for the
    >>>establishment of the Republic.
    >>
    >>Uh...the Jedi are described as the defenders of the republic for a thousand
    >>GENERATIONS. That's ~20,000 years.
    >
    >It is quite implausible that the Republic lasted continuously for all
    >that time.

    Irrelevant, those are the facts that we have been given.

    > There had to have been interregnums and restorations.

    Depending on how much EU you wish to incorporate, there have been several
    periods where the Republic was in very dire straits indeed (Exar Kun, Revan
    v1/Malak, et al), but it has been around for a very long time. Certainly
    longer than 800 years.
  38. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Tue, 31 May 2005 02:05:22 GMT, Billy Yank
    <billyUSCOREyank@verizonDOT.net> scribed into the ether:

    >Suddenly, Matt Frisch, drunk as a lemur, stumbled out of the darkness and
    >exclaimed:
    >
    >> Just what we need, more excuses for Lucas to replace story with CGI...an
    >> entire movie about Yoda. Yes, he managed to wreck Yoda too.
    >>
    >
    >I want to see a movie where Yoda teams up with Fozzie Bear and Grover.

    Puppet Yoda > > > CGI Yoda.

    It not only looked better, but they also had him speaking better. Yoda in
    the prequels struck me as a parody of himself, only with 1/10th the
    brainpan.
  39. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Chris Hayes <hayes12@fadmail.com> wrote:
    > mcv wrote:
    >> Chad Lubrecht <chad.lubrecht@verizon.net> wrote:
    >> > On Mon, 30 May 2005 00:23:23 +0100, David Dorward <dorward@yahoo.com>
    >> > wrote:
    >> >>Dirk Collins wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >>> Spoiler Space (For those folks that may still want to see it, but
    >> >>> haven't yet)...
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>> ...
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>> ...
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>> ...
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>> ...
    >> >>>
    >> >>
    >>
    >> The only other contenders for the title of worst scene are most of
    >> the love scenes between Anakin and Padme. Lucas clearly doesn't have
    >> the faintest clue how to make a love story.
    >
    > He's single. What would you expect?

    I don't expect everybody who's single to be incapable of writing a
    decent love story, but now I do understand _why_ George Lucas is
    single.


    mcv.
  40. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Chris Hayes" <hayes12@fadmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1117514922.113008.254490@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

    > I always get a kick out of reading people slamming George Lucas because
    > he somehow messed with "their" Star Wars.

    I have not heard to much along those lines, actually.

    > The fact of the matter is, if it wasn't for the "stupid" George Lucas, you
    > wouldn't have even
    > cared about Star Wars nearly three decades after the fact.

    I don't find that particularly relevant.

    > The original trilogy is just fun popcorn movies with some deeper messages
    > from mythology.

    Agreed. They were fun. The Phantom Menace simply wasn't (I have not
    bothered by with the other two). Quite frankly, the revisions to the
    original trilogy show clearly that Lucas did not really know what made them
    fun/cool. It is not surprising therefore that the others do not have those
    qualities.

    > They were great to immerse oneself in for a few hours
    > to see a grand moral tale being told in space opera style. They
    > weren't known for their dialogue or for great acting.

    Agreed on both points.

    > Don't believe me? Look at Mark Hammill again in _The Empire Strikes Back_
    > (usually
    > agreed to be either the best or second best SW movie after ANH). His
    > acting after learning Darth Vader was his father is pathetic and it
    > cracks me up every time I see him screaming "Noooo."

    Yep.

    > *Of course* the prequel triology would never meet peoples'
    > expectations.

    It (The Phantom Menace) not only did not meet expectations; it was simply
    not a good movie. I wanted it to be, but it wasn't. I found myself looking
    at my watch, wondering when the Tlade Fedelation was going to order flied
    lice.

    > They spent two decades building up this idea that the
    > original trilogy was somehow "deep cinema" and that nostalgia factor
    > made many hostile to the inevitable let down.

    I don't think the let down was inevitable. With Lucas as the idea man, with
    a competent screenwriter for implementation and a good director at the helm,
    they could have been great.

    > Some parts of the prequels were just as good as anything from the
    > OT

    The package certainly isn't, though.

    > and the only reason you believe it wasn't was simply because the original
    > Star Wars pretty
    > much blew people away back in the late 70's.

    Not really.

    > It was never done before and most of us were kids at the time.
    >
    > After seeing Episode III, I just can't rewatch the original trilogy's
    > lightsaber battles and get excited anymore.

    I was never that excited about the Louisville Slugger School of
    Swordfighting, myself. The fight choreography has definitely improved, no
    doubt about it. However, fight choreography and cool special effects are
    not what made the originals cool/fun.

    > Lucas can make Star Wars movies for the rest of his life and everyone who
    > bitches will still go
    > and see them.

    Not really. I still have not bothered with II and III, even though I hear
    that III has good fights in it and is bearable if you plug your ears for the
    dialog.

    --
    ^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishment the scroll,
    I am the Master of my fate:
    I am the Captain of my soul.

    from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
  41. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    mcv wrote:
    > Chris Hayes <hayes12@fadmail.com> wrote:
    > > mcv wrote:
    > >> Chad Lubrecht <chad.lubrecht@verizon.net> wrote:
    > >> > On Mon, 30 May 2005 00:23:23 +0100, David Dorward <dorward@yahoo.com>
    > >> > wrote:
    > >> >>Dirk Collins wrote:
    > >> >>
    > >> >>> Spoiler Space (For those folks that may still want to see it, but
    > >> >>> haven't yet)...
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>> ...
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>> ...
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>> ...
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>> ...
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>
    > >>
    > >> The only other contenders for the title of worst scene are most of
    > >> the love scenes between Anakin and Padme. Lucas clearly doesn't have
    > >> the faintest clue how to make a love story.
    > >
    > > He's single. What would you expect?
    >
    > I don't expect everybody who's single to be incapable of writing a
    > decent love story, but now I do understand _why_ George Lucas is
    > single.
    >

    If you listen to some of his friends like Francis Ford Copola or even
    Lucas himself, getting laid is probably the last thing on his mind.
  42. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Chris Hayes wrote:

    > After seeing Episode III, I just can't rewatch the original trilogy's
    > lightsaber battles and get excited anymore. Lucas can make Star Wars
    > movies for the rest of his life and everyone who bitches will still go
    > and see them.

    Not me, or my wife. That boat has sailed.

    Re,
    Dirk
  43. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Matt Frisch wrote:
    > On 30 May 2005 21:48:42 -0700, "Chris Hayes" <hayes12@fadmail.com> scribed
    > into the ether:
    >
    > >
    > >
    > >Matt Frisch wrote:
    > >> On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:16:19 GMT, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> scribed
    > >> into the ether:
    > >>
    > >> >John Rudd wrote:
    > [Don't people know how to snip irrelevant text anymore?]
    > >> >In fact, I'm looking forward to this Episode Zero thing, which
    > >> >apparently is going to be set 800 years before RotS and will star a
    > >> >young Yoda as he helps overthrow the Sith lords and makes way for the
    > >> >establishment of the Republic.
    > >>
    > >> Uh...the Jedi are described as the defenders of the republic for a thousand
    > >> GENERATIONS. That's ~20,000 years. Even ignoring the EU stuff which has the
    > >> Republic going back a long, long ways, that particular gem comes from Ep4.
    > >> Of course, Lucas is hardly one to pay attention to the continuity of his
    > >> own movies.
    > >>
    > >> Just what we need, more excuses for Lucas to replace story with CGI...an
    > >> entire movie about Yoda. Yes, he managed to wreck Yoda too.
    > >
    > >I always get a kick out of reading people slamming George Lucas because
    > >he somehow messed with "their" Star Wars.
    >
    > Just because he was responsible for starting it doesn't mean he should be
    > the one to finish it.
    >

    Why not? It's his story. Are you just pissed that George Lucas didn't
    consult you on how it should have turned out?

    > > The fact of the matter is,
    > >if it wasn't for the "stupid" George Lucas, you wouldn't have even
    > >cared about Star Wars nearly three decades after the fact. The
    > >original trilogy is just fun popcorn movies with some deeper messages
    > >from mythology. They were great to immerse oneself in for a few hours
    > >to see a grand moral tale being told in space opera style.
    >
    > Which the prequels don't even rise up to.
    >

    IYO, but I'd disagree given how there are a lot of things to look for,
    such as how dictators are born out of popular support based on fear,
    power corrupts, and how the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
    Did you miss that whole part where Anakin turned to the Dark Side in
    order to save Padme but ended up making her lose her will to live?
    Anakin didn't go down the path of the Dark Side because he saw it as
    evil. Lucas's movies were more complex than that.

    > >*Of course* the prequel triology would never meet peoples'
    > >expectations.
    >
    > After seeing Ep1, my expectations for the other two were extremely low, and
    > they were still not met.
    >

    Could they possibly be met? That's the more realistic question here.

    > > They spent two decades building up this idea that the
    > >original trilogy was somehow "deep cinema"
    >
    > Actually, I spent that time under the belief that they were well crafted,
    > enjoyable movies, even with their flaws (and they certainly had flaws). The
    > prequels were with rare exception, just plain bad movies.
    >

    Again, IYO, but the original trilogy had just as many clumsy parts. I
    certainly hope you're not making the original trilogy to be anything
    other than what they were: enjoyable popcorn movies with stunted
    dialogue, bad acting, and lots of homages to mythological concepts. I
    saw some of that in the prequels and didn't like all of it, but I also
    recognize that I was a kid when I saw the original trilogy and that
    nostalgia thing sort of clouds my judgement.

    > >After seeing Episode III, I just can't rewatch the original trilogy's
    > >lightsaber battles and get excited anymore.
    >
    > A pity for you. Fight choreography is only a part of what makes a battle
    > exciting.

    Part yes, but the Episode III lightsaber battles also had more meaning.
    Did you miss that whole part where Obi Wan showed his anguish in
    having to take Anakin out on Mustafa after cutting his legs off? About
    how Kenobi loved him like a brother? Or are you going to cynically
    negate all of it because you feel pissed that Lucas somehow didn't make
    Star Wars you would make? It's one thing to not like it but to pump it
    up as though Lucas "ruined" Star Wars sounds like serious fanboyism.

    As they old joke about fanboys goes:

    Q: How many fanboys does it take to change a lightbulb?
    A: Ten. One to do the task and nine to bitch about how much better the
    old one was.
  44. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On 30 May 2005 21:48:42 -0700, "Chris Hayes" <hayes12@fadmail.com> scribed
    into the ether:

    >
    >
    >Matt Frisch wrote:
    >> On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:16:19 GMT, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> scribed
    >> into the ether:
    >>
    >> >John Rudd wrote:
    [Don't people know how to snip irrelevant text anymore?]
    >> >In fact, I'm looking forward to this Episode Zero thing, which
    >> >apparently is going to be set 800 years before RotS and will star a
    >> >young Yoda as he helps overthrow the Sith lords and makes way for the
    >> >establishment of the Republic.
    >>
    >> Uh...the Jedi are described as the defenders of the republic for a thousand
    >> GENERATIONS. That's ~20,000 years. Even ignoring the EU stuff which has the
    >> Republic going back a long, long ways, that particular gem comes from Ep4.
    >> Of course, Lucas is hardly one to pay attention to the continuity of his
    >> own movies.
    >>
    >> Just what we need, more excuses for Lucas to replace story with CGI...an
    >> entire movie about Yoda. Yes, he managed to wreck Yoda too.
    >
    >I always get a kick out of reading people slamming George Lucas because
    >he somehow messed with "their" Star Wars.

    Just because he was responsible for starting it doesn't mean he should be
    the one to finish it.

    > The fact of the matter is,
    >if it wasn't for the "stupid" George Lucas, you wouldn't have even
    >cared about Star Wars nearly three decades after the fact. The
    >original trilogy is just fun popcorn movies with some deeper messages
    >from mythology. They were great to immerse oneself in for a few hours
    >to see a grand moral tale being told in space opera style.

    Which the prequels don't even rise up to.

    >*Of course* the prequel triology would never meet peoples'
    >expectations.

    After seeing Ep1, my expectations for the other two were extremely low, and
    they were still not met.

    > They spent two decades building up this idea that the
    >original trilogy was somehow "deep cinema"

    Actually, I spent that time under the belief that they were well crafted,
    enjoyable movies, even with their flaws (and they certainly had flaws). The
    prequels were with rare exception, just plain bad movies.

    >After seeing Episode III, I just can't rewatch the original trilogy's
    >lightsaber battles and get excited anymore.

    A pity for you. Fight choreography is only a part of what makes a battle
    exciting.
  45. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> you up next, work it out
    now.

    >On 31 May 2005 14:49:35 -0700, "Chris Hayes" <hayes12@fadmail.com> scribed
    >into the ether:
    >
    >
    >>Anakin didn't go down the path of the Dark Side because he saw it as
    >>evil. Lucas's movies were more complex than that.
    >
    >I question the phrasing as "more complex"...we were told in Ep4 that Vader
    >was "Seduced by the power of the dark side"...of which there was little
    >evidence in Ep3. I just saw a scared, angry whiner who felt the universe
    >owed him something because he had a lot of midichlorians. A fair portion of
    >that could be laid on Christenson...but not all of it.

    At least now we know why Luke was such a whiny little bitch in Ep IV.
    The acorn didn't fall far from the tree.

    Bill
    --
    By working faithfully eight hours a day, you may eventually
    get to be boss and work twelve hours a day. - Robert Frost
  46. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Dirk Collins wrote:

    > The Episode III story continuity (and believeability) dies some more here.

    Don't worry, GL can fix it in his revisions.

    MadKaugh
  47. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Matt Frisch wrote:
    >> Look at Mace Windu's actions just
    >>before his death -- his options are to let an exceedingly dangerous Sith
    >>Lord live, or to kill an unarmed man and then begin a military coup of
    >>the Republic, overthrowing democracy and instituting forced Jedi rule.
    >>Which of those options is correct?
    > Neither, but those are also not the only options, are they?
    > Option 3) Kill Palpatine, let the senate elect a new chancellor. Palpatine
    > dead, Dooku dead, Grievous dead...suddenly there is no seperatist movement,
    > and things can go back to normal.

    And not only that, I'd bet that if folks thought Mace was a murderer because of
    it, and the Senate voted to censure/impeach/whatever him, I'm sure that he would
    go along with it. He _knew_ it was a bad thing to do, but to let the Sith Lord
    live would be even worse.
    --
    "Thank goodness, that Amnesty International likened the US to only the Soviet
    Gulag. If they had said we were like the Nazi's, then we would know that it was
    just hyperbole. I mean, really now."
    --till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>
  48. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Ubiquitous wrote:
    > In article <1117513492.250458.275170@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
    > hayes12@fadmail.com wrote:
    > >Ubiquitous wrote:
    >
    > >> And you're posting this here because...?
    > >
    > >He can. And it's more on topic here than the political drooling in
    > >your sig and setting followups to irrelevant newsgroups.
    >
    > Bitter about Bush being elected twice? Try to get over it, mmkay?
    >

    Do you have an actual *point*?
  49. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    In article <1117513492.250458.275170@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
    hayes12@fadmail.com wrote:
    >Ubiquitous wrote:

    >> And you're posting this here because...?
    >
    >He can. And it's more on topic here than the political drooling in
    >your sig and setting followups to irrelevant newsgroups.

    Bitter about Bush being elected twice? Try to get over it, mmkay?

    --
    It is simply breathtaking to watch the glee and abandon with which
    the liberal media and the Angry Left have been attempting to turn
    our military victory in Iraq into a second Vietnam quagmire. Too bad
    for them, it's failing.
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