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XP or P4

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February 7, 2002 4:08:05 PM

In about a week I'll be buying a new PC. The main problem is what CPU to use AMD XP 1800+ or P4 1.6Gh. What suggestions. It will be used at home: Internet, movie waching, A litle bit of coding(delphi and java). Which is better???

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February 7, 2002 6:08:50 PM

Unless you plan on super overclocking the chip, the axp is the better value.

At stock, the 1800+ will rape the 1600mhz p4.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
February 7, 2002 7:13:47 PM

Xp1800+ is faster than p4 1.6. And cheaper than P4 1.6
But for myself, I will get the 1700+, $40 cheaper
February 7, 2002 8:34:41 PM

the XP1800 is 30%+ faster then the P4-1600.


<font color=green>
*******
*K.I.S.S*
*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
*******
</font color=green>
February 7, 2002 8:41:29 PM

Yep, think everyone agrees. Excluding overclocking the AMD is faster then the Intel at the same or similar speeds....

Jesus saves, but Mario scores!!!
February 7, 2002 10:21:20 PM

XP blows goats compared the P4 1.6A Northwood the current price/performance champion.

My retail 1.6A from newegg.com kicks ass for $148, better performance at almost half the price of a XP 2000+ (imagine that)

You can wait for the Tbred comes out in a few months and hope that with no changes to the core other than die shrink its somehow magicly better or buy a P4 1.6A now and really enjoy owning a PC thats stable, doesn't overheat, or randomly reboot.

You will not need to buy 3 extra case fans, overgrown turbine powered heat sink, mr. beefy power supply, and ear plugs.

<A HREF="http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?2645789" target="_new">My P4 1.6A kicks ass @ over 2.5Ghz!</A> No volt mods, pelts, or watercooling.
February 7, 2002 10:35:36 PM

Fugger why not STFU??
You're still an [-peep-] as I see it, even though I thought you'd change, you're still a troll providing FUD.
For the love of god wake up man, the guy isn't gonna overclock, he only needs a Retail AXP, and he has over twice the money saved for anything including mobo price and DDR.

Your AXP will kick any P4 until 2.2GHZ and you will definitly not regret it, and ignore whatever a-hole comes in to tell you against it with heat reasons, they are trolls roaming the ass-world they are in.

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
February 7, 2002 10:36:12 PM

does it still "blow goats" if he DOESNT want to overclock...

i know... yes its hard to understand for us overclockers, but some people actually dont want to overclock :wink:

Overclocked athlon 1200C @ 8.5 x 166FSB + PC2700 = GOOD! :smile:
February 7, 2002 10:42:08 PM

And that's me.
I wonder how much I woulda gotten performance on the P4 1.6GHZ willy with DDR...hmm... maybe it really is stronger than my XP 1600 with DDR...hmmm....oh yeah Fugger you are sooo right....especially when not overclocking!!

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
February 7, 2002 10:57:47 PM

you can't compare ddr p4 systems with ddr xp systems... if rdram were available for the amd platform it would be a different story.

<i>Hi I am from Canada, I don't use amd cause they melt my igloo eh.</i>
February 7, 2002 11:04:06 PM

Why not? We thought RDRAM was the mainstream for P4, then comes DDR and it performs almost on par with it! DDR333MHZ compared to PC800 RDRAM and yet it sometimes cripples it, this tells me that Intel did not do the job well with optimizing even their own RAM usage! I wonder how far before DDR 400 comes and we can see how much RDRAM really is now, not to mention latency issues. But I guess RDRAM uses different bit transfer so at 800MHZ it isn't 800MHZ as expected...

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
February 8, 2002 12:07:54 AM

Jeez dude it aint fair to compare memory performance of some 3 year old design to one so new it hasn't even been officialy declared a standard yet.

Didn't anybody but me read the clash of the overclocked titans? The 2600MHz system is running at PC944 speeds(if there were PC944) and spanks the P4 3GHz in almost every single benchmark. To me this is clear indication of how much the P4's are currently being dragged down by poor memory performance, and an indicator of how much the performance of the P4's is going to increase via PC1066. Obviously, this is not definative proof, but the numbers sure do jump out at me as being significant.

I have barely seen anyone here even acknowledge these great scores. Sheesh, why are folks here so adamantly opposed to just admitting what the benchmarks make so clear. P4 likes as much memory bandwidth that current technology will allow. At the very moment sure DDR333 is looking fairly competitive, but that aint gonna last too long. DDR400, what the hell? Let's wait for DDR333 to become a standard before we all go betting the farm on DDR400.

PS forget not that PC1066 is just around the corner.
February 8, 2002 12:19:05 AM

Quote:
XP blows goats compared the P4 1.6A Northwood the current price/performance champion.

My retail 1.6A from newegg.com kicks ass for $148, better performance at almost half the price of a XP 2000+ (imagine that)

You can wait for the Tbred comes out in a few months and hope that with no changes to the core other than die shrink its somehow magicly better or buy a P4 1.6A now and really enjoy owning a PC thats stable, doesn't overheat, or randomly reboot.



A: we said if you dont overclock, your whole post is off topic and pointless.
B: The tbred core will give it the same % gain clock per clock as the .13micron shrink did to the intel system, so you will return to the way things were, where the amd chip constantly out performed the intel offering, ESPECIALLY when overclocking.
C: A properly set up amd is perfectly stable, dosent overheat and dosent randomly reboot, to say so is midless fud which is all you have ever been good for.
D: you troll posts are pointless and not welcome, so run along FUGGER, and dont fry your videocard on the way out!

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 8, 2002 12:32:38 AM

Ay I forgot about that! But still even if it is memory hungry, just why is it that way? Why couldn't they just "fix" the damn core already instead of making us pay for expensive RDRAM (imagine PC1066 starting prices! I heard twice the price of PC800) and make a P4 more worth it!
Yes DDR is for Athlons, but I recall a website testing the powers of both systems on same hardware but different CPU and Mobo of course, and indeed the AXP 2000 spanked the 2.2GHZ so hard even Mat couldn't beleive it!
Remember the link Mat? Man it totally dishonored the P4 NW...

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
February 8, 2002 1:39:38 AM

just why is it that way?

I don't really know.

Why couldn't they just "fix" the damn core already?

I believe that is what they think they are doing, but have run into a few more stumbling blocks than expected.

Regarding the spanking comparison you referred to, the only way they could have done that is with a DDR or SDR memory subsystem. OK, I think we have established that the P4 needs bigger amounts of memory bandwidth/performance gain than the Athalons. If that is true then it could very well be true that the Athalon was getting closer to sufficient bandwidth, for it's specific architecture type, while the P4 was being somewhat castrated, even though they were recieving equal treatment from the memory.

All I'm trying to say is: we've seen that memory speed is very important for the P4. Apparently the work per cycle is being increased for both processor types, by increasing memory bandwidth. The difference is that the Athalon is over that knee in the performance vs bandwidth curve so that increases in bandwidth are helping it minimally, but the P4 is still approaching the performance vs bandwidth knee and are still seeing huge improvements in overall system performance from faster memory.

There is wisdom in Intels approach. The P4 will scale much further into the future than Athalons due to it's ability to make use of future techs as they appear. The problem is crappy performance for the first couple of years until the memory technology grows to match it.

PS I fully expect that AMD will follow Intels footsteps in that soon there will be some new processor from them that needs some ungodly amount of memory performance, that is if they want to remain in the high performance market. It is the only way they can keep up.
February 8, 2002 3:13:36 AM

Too bad most of you are AMD freaks.

GamerzCitadel.com
February 8, 2002 3:22:50 AM

Quote:
XP blows goats compared the P4 1.6A Northwood the current price/performance champion.

<b>My retail 1.6A</b> from newegg.com kicks ass for $148, <b>better performance at almost half the price</b> of a XP 2000+ (imagine that)

INTEL® PENTIUM® IV PGA478 RETAIL P4 1.6A GHZ 512KB CACHE 400MHZ FSB (NO MEMORY) $310.00
AMD-OEM ATHLON XP 1800+ AXP1800DMT3C 1.53GHZ CPU SOCKET A $290.00

(Canadian dollars)
well isn't that interesting, it seems that you are a total moron. <A HREF="http://www.bcom.ab.ca/Jpage_cpu-bcom-1.asp" target="_new">Source</A>. me local puter shop

<i>
AMD Athlon XP 1800+/266 FSB PROCESSOR CPU - RETAIL Athlon XP 1800+/ 1.53GHz, AX1800BOX. 3-Year Warranty. With Heatsink and Fan. The Ultimate Digital Media Experience in an x86 Platform.Tailored for Microsoft® Windows® XP. Featuring QuantiSpeed™ Architecture for Rapid Execution of Applications. Tomorrow’s Technology Today.The Power of a Reliable Partner. Model#: AXP1800BOX Special FedEx Saver Shipping $6.95
$148
</i>
<i>
INTEL PENTIUM 4 1.6GHz 400MHz
$145
</i>
<b>FROM <A HREF="http://www.NEWEGG.COM" target="_new">NEWEGG</A></b>
Windows has started.
Would you like to play another game?
February 8, 2002 5:17:07 AM

I think he said half the price of a 2000+.

Dont feel bad, everyone else shot holes all through his mindless post, you didnt have any left to shoot. :-)

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 8, 2002 5:40:06 AM

Frist off who would beleave the crap you write. 90% of the crap you write is Lies. Go to another fourm and talk you dumb a$$ talk.
February 8, 2002 6:17:52 AM

this should be like survivor. vote off the guys you think are retarded. did i mention my retardation is a medical condition and not by fault of ignorance? ;) 

Windows has started.
Would you like to play another game?
February 8, 2002 7:23:54 AM

O.K.
I didn't think that my question will start such a discusion.
I wont overclock my system. I almost don't play games. (I play Dune 2, Warcraft 2, and some puzzle games, and if my sister want to play then thats her problem).
IAs I understood from your posts AMD is better if you dont overclock and Intel is beter for overclocking.
I decided i wil go for AMD
February 8, 2002 10:24:01 AM

heh
how did that saying go???

"90% lies and 20% fabrication!"

unless of course he is a memeber of the "intell mindless drone bonus discount scheme"
:wink:

Overclocked athlon 1200C @ 8.5 x 166FSB + PC2700 = GOOD! :smile:
February 8, 2002 10:38:41 AM

Too bad Intel shun us with their recent processors...

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
February 8, 2002 11:32:40 AM

Think of the P4 like this.....if you buy one you NEED to overclock it just to make it perform even reasonably close to an Athlon.

Buy the Athlon!
February 8, 2002 12:00:17 PM

"... movie watching ..."

Watching DVD movies (e.g., The Matrix) is smooth on my Athlon XP 1800+. Can't detect any jerkiness in playback using PowerDVD.
February 8, 2002 2:11:51 PM

here's an odd thing...i cant seem to get my P4 2A northy to go faster than 2.2 ghz...the P4 northy doesnt seem to be that good of an overclocker...unless im doing something wrong...

<A HREF="http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?2649487" target="_new">P4 NW + DDR</A> = <font color=blue>Not Bad</font color=blue>
February 8, 2002 2:23:16 PM

You probably need to run your DDR mem at 100, not 133, so that the FSB and Mem are syncronus. That should help you push things.

At the moment, the memory is the limiting factor in overclocking a P4.

RAM Disk is not an instalation step.
February 8, 2002 2:50:22 PM

i ran the FSB at 110 and i couldnt get them any higher than that...and besides...the P4 FSB is quad pumped if im not mistaken (4x100=400).
btw...im using ocz pc2700 ram.
i tried upping the vcore but that didnt do anything...maybe i should ask fugger about this cuz he got a 1.6 northy to work at 2.5 ghz...


<A HREF="http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?2649487" target="_new">P4 NW + DDR</A> = <font color=blue>Not Bad</font color=blue>
February 8, 2002 3:10:50 PM

Fugger has warned that your mobo is not a good overclocker.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
February 8, 2002 3:10:50 PM

Fugger has warned that your mobo is not a good overclocker.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
February 8, 2002 3:20:21 PM

i know...but on madonion...someone has the same board as i do and he's gotten his P4 to overclock by 400 mhz.
on the reviews i read...they got their boards to run at 124 FSB...i couldnt get mines past 110.
not that i want to overclock...i just like having the option to overclock.

<A HREF="http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?2649487" target="_new">P4 NW + DDR</A> = <font color=blue>Not Bad</font color=blue>
February 8, 2002 4:18:19 PM

First, off you guys assumed he would not overclock.
Second, I said almost half. that means less than half.
Third, you will regret getting an AMD, good luck cause your gonna need it.

AMD lemmings love to split hairs, quotes from The Inquirer, and guessing whats wrong on every AMD "help me" post (often I make a better guess than the lemmings) hell, if its a "help me" post there is a 99% chance its an AMD! go figure.

I love how you girls get all bent when I post, it lets me know Im doing a good job.
February 8, 2002 4:28:05 PM

The SiS645 (SiS650 is micro FF version) has poor vcore voltages, even tho I raised mine it had no effect. so basicly your overclocking with default vcore only.

The only solution is to vmod your motherboard. I have not seen and "how to" yet for that motherboard. Other than that your better off selling off that mobo and getting a i845D based mobo (BD-7 or P4S266). if you have PC2700 ram already then it will hit a nice FSB of 130+ easy.
February 8, 2002 4:41:19 PM

"... First, off you guys assumed he would not overclock. ..."

Your right! Who in their right mind would pick a slower of the two choices (Athlon 1800+ vs P4 1.6GHz) unless they intended to overclock.

"... Third, you will regret getting an AMD, ..."

I went AMD and I didn't regret it.

"... AMD lemmings love to split hairs, quotes from The Inquirer, and guessing whats wrong on every AMD "help me" post ..."

Intel fan boys like you love to spread FUD. Do you own stocks in Intel?

"... I love how you girls get all bent when I post, it lets me know Im doing a good job. ..."

You're doing a good job BS-ing.
February 8, 2002 4:55:37 PM

My P4 1.6A will snuff anything anyone on this board has to offer. lets see what you got? you own even own a XP processor? LMAO!

Go pick any "help me" post, notice its AMD inside =)
I can point out too many posts where A lemming will quote The Inquirer.
I said "almost half" and I was re-quoted by gimps as "half" that is "splitting hairs"

So bend over and shove the FUD back up your ass where it belongs. Have a nice day.
February 8, 2002 5:08:45 PM

Fugger, you were doing so good for a while there....what happened?

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
February 8, 2002 5:12:00 PM

FUGGER i got a question for you,as i stated many times before i'm not pro AMD or INTEL.
My question is this: Why is it that most ppl on this forum AS an AMD system that runs whitout any problem on them and you assume, by telling newbies, that AMD systems are no good,please explain to me why only pro-intel ppl like you have/had stability problems when they don't own the CPU and those who actualy own the CPU do not?

Man this is a mistery to me...both my XP and my P4 never gave me any problems and yet you, melty, intel_inside and the others pro-intel as problem whit them when they probably never onwed one...AMAZING !!!

But pro AMD guys are always telling newbies : "If your not plaining on overcloking go for AMD or if your planning to go whit Intel"

But i have to agree whit you on 1 thing ,the CPU price now is not an issue anymore,both are at comparative pricing(if you include mobo/memory cost to the math)






Sorry for my spelling I'm french...hey I ain't perfect!
February 8, 2002 5:16:16 PM

"... My P4 1.6A will snuff anything anyone on this board has to offer. lets see what you got? you own even own a XP processor? LMAO! ..."

It was pretty funny watching you trying to achieve 7500 3DMarks 2001 with a Willie over the summer. You had to overclock your poor GeForce3 to hell and back to substantiate your claim. It's a good thing you've upgraded!

"... Go pick any "help me" post, notice its AMD inside =) ..."

We out number you 10 to 1. Be very afraid!

"... I can point out too many posts where A lemming will quote The Inquirer. ..."

The Inquirer has more credibility than you do.

"... So bend over and shove the FUD back up your ass where it belongs. Have a nice day. ..."

It wasn't me that was spreading the manure.
February 8, 2002 5:47:27 PM

Quote:
O.K.
I didn't think that my question will start such a discusion.
I wont overclock my system. I almost don't play games. (I play Dune 2, Warcraft 2, and some puzzle games, and if my sister want to play then thats her problem).
IAs I understood from your posts AMD is better if you dont overclock and Intel is beter for overclocking.
I decided i wil go for AMD



Thats it in a nutshell, right now intel just moved its cpus to a smaller process size, and they have huge overclocking headroom, but they still at stock, are way below amds price/performance, if you feel like being a hardcore overclocker than right now, a p4 would be a good buy. However in 2-3 months the amd thoroughbred will be released, which is an axp on the same smaller process size, and the same overclocking benifits intel has now, amd will have as well, and then the overclockers choice would deffinatly be amd again I believe. (amd has always been the better overclocker untill the northwood.)

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 8, 2002 5:51:37 PM

I was scoring that last summer, it was the lemmings who got bent over my scores. Im scoring 10k with the 1.6A now BFD.

Intel has market share over AMD, Hmm your math is slightly off with 10:1. let alone its usually the same problems over and over again. overheating, instability, random reboots, PSU, HSF, or moron at the keyboard. mix and match those problems to any "help me" post.

"Only 500 Itaniums sold" - yeah the inquirer is a good source of BS. The Inquirer is porno for AMD lemmings no wonder you live by it.
February 8, 2002 6:01:53 PM

Time will tell reguarding the "headroom", it should provide a little more than whats being done today.

Most of the headroom from the P4 is generated from the deep pipeline. The .13 Micro helps this design.

The Tbred from current reports has no changes to the core other than a die shrink. Intel is countering this with PC1066 release in the same time frame.
February 8, 2002 6:33:57 PM

The .13 micron shrink is the reason the nw can clock to 3ghz, the same % gain will be seen by the tbred. The longer pipe is ALREADY being used by the fact the p4 is running at 2200mhz, were talking scalability, not clockspeed.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 8, 2002 6:35:25 PM

Quote:
The Tbred from current reports has no changes to the core other than a die shrink. Intel is countering this with PC1066 release in the same time frame.



So? pc2700 will become the market standard to counter that, its a constant battle. My point is that % wise, the tbred will overclock the same as the nw, due to the simple fact of the new process.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 8, 2002 9:26:33 PM

Fugger just can't help but acknowledge that the TBred will eventually kick any P4's ass for now, and even with the memory boost, I doubt it will finally do better per clock than any Athlons for now, so giving higher speeds for AXPs without any 66MHZ increments only, will definitly put a dent in P4s. This proven that we've only advanced by 266MHZ since the 1.4 TB, and yet we are competing against 2.2GHZ and still winning, imagine the bigger MHZ now, seeing as 266 more MHZ gave all this!

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
February 8, 2002 9:42:45 PM

Quote:
I was scoring that last summer

Correction, you were claiming to score that last summer with a P4 1.5@1.8GHz, non-OC'd GF3, and Detonator 3's. When someone shot holes in your claim, you "remembered" that you'd had your GF3 overclocked for that 7500 score. Yet even with the "conveniently forgotten" GF3 overclock, the same CPU@1.8GHz, and the same Detonators, you still couldn't match your original claim. You had to O/C your GF3 further, fry it, get it RMA'd, and switch to a faster CPU, then hope no one noticed the deviation from your original claim. :tongue:

It's nice that you can get those scores. I'm serious, it really is. Perhaps I would care more if I ran 3DMark2K1 or Windows more often. What's pathetic is that you felt you had to lie originally to make your prize system or your tweaking skills look better than reality. That indicates low self-esteem and blatant Intel fanboy attitude. It's also one of the things that shot your credibility to hell.

Quote:
Intel has market share over AMD, Hmm you rmath is slightly off with 10:1

Almost everyone visiting technical boards like this one are going the AMD route, hmmm your math is slightly off. "Market share" doesn't equal "technical superiority;" it just means Intel marketed more heavily, and your average joe is ignorant enough to believe the hype.

You are one of the <10% of real professionals who fell for the Intel hype, then tried to convert the more knowledgeable technical folk here of the "paganism" of AMD. Apparently, despite claiming to be a competent professional, you are about as ignorant as the average joe. :tongue:

<i>If a server crashes in a server farm and no one pings it, does it still cost four figures to fix?
February 8, 2002 11:28:34 PM

Quote:
Correction, you were claiming to score that last summer with a P4 1.5@1.8GHz, non-OC'd GF3, and Detonator 3's. When someone shot holes in your claim, you "remembered" that you'd had your GF3 overclocked for that 7500 score. Yet even with the "conveniently forgotten" GF3 overclock, the same CPU@1.8GHz, and the same Detonators, you still couldn't match your original claim. You had to O/C your GF3 further, fry it, get it RMA'd, and switch to a faster CPU, then hope no one noticed the deviation from your original claim.




LOL, I didnt want to bring that up because poor fugger was already the laughing stock, good call kelledin ;-).

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
!