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My guess of Claw-Hammer's clockspeed

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February 9, 2002 10:25:11 PM

I've been examining many articals about AMD's Clawammer processor (in particular Anandtechs artical) and have been trying to some up with a rough guess of how much better Hammer will be against the Athlon.

Please note I am not very experienced in CPU design or platforms and the figures I am about to come up with are basically off the top of my head, therefore dont take them too seriously, however constructive feedback / opinions would be good.

I have basically taken each performance enhancement of the Hammer mentioned in <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1546" target="_new">Anandtechs artical</A> and predicted percentage wise what how much it will increase performance compared to the Athlon (palamino)....

1) integrated memory controller = 5%
2) improved branch prediction & larger workload TLBs = 5%
3) Extra cache e.g 512K (compared to the 256K on the Athlon) = 5%

That gives an overall performance increase of 15% over the Athlon (palamino).

I personally think this figure is fairly conservative as things like Hypertransport and addtion of SSE2 will further increase overall performance but for now lets stick to 15%.

OK therefore what I want to do is figure out the clock speed of a 3400+ Clawhammer.....

<b>KEY:</b>
Left Most Column: Athlon PR Rating
Red Column: Actual Mhz
Right Column: 15% increase of Athlon PR rating i.e predicted performnce of the Clawhammer.

<b><i>
2000 <font color=red>1.666</font color=red> 2300
2100 <font color=red>1.732</font color=red> 2415
2200 <font color=red>1.798</font color=red> 2530
2300 <font color=red>1.864</font color=red> 2645
2400 <font color=red>1.93</font color=red> 2760
2500 <font color=red>1.996</font color=red> 2875
2600 <font color=red>2.062</font color=red> 2990
2700 <font color=red>2.128</font color=red> 3105
2800 <font color=red>2.194</font color=red> 3220
2900 <font color=red>2.26</font color=red> 3335
3000 <font color=red>2.326</font color=red> 3450</i></b>


Therefore I predict that the Clawhammer debuting at PR 3400+ will be running at a clockspeed of around 2.3Ghz. An Athlon (palamino) running at the same clockspeed would only achieve a rating of 3000+.

I know this is all very crude and inaccurate but just let me know what you think.

<font color=purple>~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)</font color=purple>
February 9, 2002 10:51:21 PM

The calculations you made for the clock speeds are wrong. The clock speed increases by 66.6666666666666 (etc) Mhz per 100 performance rating, rather than 66Mhz per 100 performance rating.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
February 9, 2002 11:08:17 PM

Also, let's not forget that we don't know the compete feature set of the ClawHammer. Also, we don't know for sure when the ClawHammer will be released and what Intel will have at the time. A 533MHz bus will improve the P4's performance a few extra percentage points. Really, there are too many variables right now to speculate the Hammer's performance relative to the P4.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
February 10, 2002 5:04:06 AM

Well, your guess is an interesting one. Especially given the fact that there are already three sources that say Hammer will debut at 3400.
http://freespace.virgin.net/m.warner/RoadmapQ402.htm

http://www.dj.st44.arena.ne.jp/xwin2/mainhtml/intelcpu/...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1011297004

So, take the info in the links above with a grain of salt. But also, I believe Hammer's debut speed and some links to it were posted in this forum already. But I appreciate your hard effort in the guess anyway.

Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.
February 10, 2002 5:45:51 AM

"benchmarks are like sex..."
LOL

and when u arnt gettin any can always do solo benchies :wink:

Overclocked athlon 1200C @ 8.5 x 166FSB + PC2700 = GOOD! :smile:
February 10, 2002 5:53:52 AM

I would say your number are pretty conservative..
For instance – an extra 256kb of cache gave the P4 a boast of 10%
Keep in mind that the L2 cache architecture on the Hammer will also be improved – probably.

At an AMD analysis meeting they’ve said the Hammer will be introduced at 2GHz with the RP rating of 3400
About 35% improvement in IPC over the athlon…:
Athlon 2Ghz = PR 2500
2500 * 1.35 = 3375

Which is not hard to believe:

10% – new L2 cache
5% - integrated memory controller
10% - Dual channel DDR-SDRAM + higher bus speeds
5% - BPU&TLB improvement

That’s 30% w/o see2…

But its all usless guess work until the Hammer comes out
There are very few sites with an Analysis of the hammer architecture
but the ones who have - tend to belive amds' numbers.

<A HREF="http://www.chip-architect.com/news/2001_10_18_AMD_prese..." target="_new">here's one</A>

this guy is a true professional - read is work.. very impressive


This post is best viewed with common sense enabled<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by iib on 02/10/02 10:05 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
February 10, 2002 12:50:00 PM

yeah I thought they were pretty crap predictions..(shows the lack of knowledge I have). Does this mean the clock speed will be much lower ? I thought Weber gave a theoretical clock speed of 2Ghz at his conference....I guess all this speculation and the lack of information this topic aint worth discussing.

<font color=purple>~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)</font color=purple>
February 10, 2002 9:28:40 PM

If they can use the efficient Crossbar Memory Controller 2 from Nvidia's GF4, they can easily squeeze up to 20% power.
You also forgot SOI, which supposedly can bring a big difference.
Don't fret man, your knowledge is always welcome here, with your funny links to interesting articles, and at least you are making a valid conversation of the future!

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
February 10, 2002 10:03:34 PM

yep... SIO looks like fun, a 25% reduction in energy requirements.

with the advent of desktop hammers though i see amd and intell diverging... intell going for stratospheric mhz and amd for lower mhz yet more efficient use of mhz... internal cpu and external.

Overclocked athlon 1200C @ 8.5 x 166FSB + PC2700 = GOOD! :smile:
February 10, 2002 10:41:07 PM

Nah, the 0.13 should hand it some more speed, and increased pipeline, not to mention the starting PR of 3400, and I don't see any 3GHZ or 3.4GHZ any soon this year from Intel, that is if AMD releases CH around the end or beggining 03. So basically if they do have the tremendous jump to 4400 a few months after like some roadmap showed, Intel is in serious trouble if it reaches commercially and Joes read the big number!
Not to mention AMD having many new alliances, I have a feeling AMD will be playing a huge role next year and will not be what it was 3 years ago anymore...
Just the name Hammer implies a serious product.

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
February 11, 2002 6:22:17 AM

I think The cross bar memory controler is used for comunication with other Hammer cpus... not with memory itself.
the Hammer will have a dual channel DDR-SDRAM which is sorta like GeForce crossbar memory controler - only that the Geforce memory controler is devided to 4 sub controlers not 2. and can deal with various sized chunks of data... this cuts memory latncys and helps effecntly using avalible bandwith. Dual-Channel achive sum of this but not as the GeForce...

SOI technology has been around for decades for specialty areas. It's only now that it's being implemented to help enhance a mass-produced product like a cpu. Instead of transistors being built right onto the silicon, it is built on a high-quality thin layer of oxide (or an epitaxial layer of Si) that's on top of the silicon.
SOI or Silicon-On-Insulator is not that new or that great... it has been tested by Intel and others like IBM and motorola. some decided to use it some not.
most white-papers claim around 15-30% more scalbilty with the intel white paper claiming only around 18% more scalbilty on 0.18u circets... and up to 16% with 0.13u over bulk CMOS.
it looks like the benefit goes down in the future though, and based on what I've read <10% improvements in 0.7um are not unlikely.

i'd excpet SOI to give AMD around ~20% more scalbilty.





This post is best viewed with common sense enabled
February 11, 2002 10:40:55 AM

It really depends on AMD and how they will handle a technology.
See how handling SSE, even with less instructions, it had boosted the AXP in multimedia from 30- to even 90%??
God I hope they will reveal some more in March.... hmm what is the exhibition coming next month anyway?

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
February 11, 2002 11:14:13 AM

the CeBIT show to be held in germany (close to the dersden fab?) is the largest european computer show.

its going to open 20.03.02

last i've seem at the CeBIT web-site it seems as AMD has 3 showes - one is of the T-Bred one is of the Athlon MP or duron 0.13 (i dont remeber which) and they dont mention the name of third processor....

I know what im hopeing this processor turns out to be
but i aint gona jinx it (:

This post is best viewed with common sense enabled
February 12, 2002 12:14:14 AM

Lol!
But then again what else could there be!
Some processor code-named Heavy Anvil? heh!
I am eager to see what will happen as it is the pinpoint for AMD to reclaim the processor market with Tbred and hopefully with some additional nifties in it other than 0.13m. 512K L2 cache would definitly make the horse run faster and jump higher!

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
February 12, 2002 12:43:02 AM

im just wondering whats after sledgehammer & clawhammer...

battering ram? tnt? dynamite? :smile:

im thinkin 0.13 + 512k cache + 166FSB would really fly.

Overclocked athlon 1200C @ 8.5 x 166FSB + PC2700 = GOOD! :smile:
February 12, 2002 4:42:54 AM

After Hammer they are on the roadmap for .09 micron. Im sure Intel will make the transition sooner however. My guess is after SledgeHammer will be Anvil.

Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.
February 12, 2002 5:15:27 AM

Can't remember who posted this, but it's interesting...

<A HREF="http://freespace.virgin.net/m.warner/Roadmap20XX.htm" target="_new">Roadmap</A>

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
February 12, 2002 7:05:15 AM

I think whatever chipset they release for hammer should be sold as Thor. Because Thor was a god who wielded a huge hammer in battle lol.


::calls amd marketing::

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 12, 2002 7:47:17 AM

heh.
any terry pratchet fans out there?
how about calling it "blind Io"

Overclocked athlon 1200C @ 8.5 x 166FSB + PC2700 = GOOD! :smile:
February 12, 2002 10:40:49 AM

Heheh I would laugh if they actually had an "Anvil" codename in mind!
But Thor does sound right, if they are into mythical codenames, no longer horses...

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
February 12, 2002 11:09:11 AM

I wonder what is the name of K-9...


This post is best viewed with common sense enabled
February 12, 2002 11:51:51 AM

Quote:
I wonder what is the name of K-9...


The rin tin tin.

The Benji xp, With lassiethreading.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 12, 2002 7:28:34 PM

Heh heh! K9 spells itself man!
But maybe they will use canine names indeed!
Although I dunno if German Shepherd is an appropriate codename...

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
!