Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (
More info?)
Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote:
> In article <1117554683.030205.239620@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> peggoliathy@yahoo.com says...
>
>> I have a PC who's about to take a level of Dwarven Defender. It's the
>> first time this class has appeared IMC.
>>
>> I'm of the school that thinks PrCs should be rare-ish, and involve at
>> least a modest amount of rolepolaying and IC groundlaying. So I had
>> the PC pass a test, spend some time in training, etc. This has worked
>> out rather well, as he's now very excited about the new class.
>
> I've been wanting to do this IMC, but the plot sort of got in the way of
> the things I wanted the PCs to do to take the PrCs, so I more-or-less
> just let them have them.
>
> But it does feel just a little bit more special if you need special
> ninja dwarven training and induction into the order to take dwarven
> defender, than if you need just another 7k XP.
I've run it that you had to lay groundwork ahead of time. You didn't
necessarily have to roleplay everything, but you did have to know ahead
of time and tell me you wanted to do it, and have a way to learn it.
For instance, if you want to be an Order of the Bow Initiate you have to
know about them, know how to find them, etc., and get accepted by them.
Not terribly difficult if you just let me know a couple of levels ahead
of time (I'll even help you find them!)... you just don't get to look
them over, say "hey, I qualify for this and it looks tasty!" and start
taking levels in it.
In the case of the DD, I'd suggest that the character probably already
knows about them, and where they be found. If he spends his time acting
like one (i.e. behaving as they do, though without the benefits of the
PrC) he's adequately handled backstory.
>> For instance
>>
>> -- An initiation ceremony
>
> If your player(s) are into that kind of thing, a secret initiation
> ceremony played out one-on-one might be quite appropriate for dwarven
> defenders. Dwarves are Lawful, big on tradition, and often seen as
> secretive or reserved.
I'd say 'racially secretive', in that they don't often share their
ceremonies and the like with outsiders. However, someone becoming a
Dwarven Defender -- a strong representation of their race! -- may well
be a very public event. Their may be private vigils and ceremonies as
well, but I think at the least there would be a public presentation of
the new DD.
However, I think that a public ceremony inducting the new DD into the
order makes a lot of sense. Note that this is all after he otherwise
qualifies (both mechanically and event-wise), but is the last bit before
gaining the abilities. One possible form of this:
.. The ceremony is held in public, with the observers standing silent
witness to events
.. The candidate presents himself to official
.. The candidate swears the oaths of service
.. The candidate is presented with arms and armor suitable to his new
station
.. The candidate publicly demonstrates his new ability (defensive stance
IIRC) by holding off a more senior dwarven defender[3]. This isn't
the *test*, but a demonstration that the candidate now is a dwarven
defender.
The 'official' might take one of several forms:
.. the (local) head of the order
.. the senior DDs
.. all DDs available in the area
.. priest of a certain god
.. priest of any dwarven god
.. the audience, representing the race/kingdom/city as a whole
The arms and armor presented might even be those he was using before, if
you don't want to 'give' the character anything, suitably blessed for
use in the ceremony. If you do want to give something to the character,
in spite of presenting his own arms to him, you might enchant them to
better serve him in his new role.
IMC this would have been the *correct* thing to do, btw. I'll explain
in a [kjd-imc] post later.
I considered having a representative enemy 'test' the new DD, but that
didn't seem quite right. I can see the orcs capturing a dwarf and
making him fight as part of a ceremony, but I don't see dwarves doing
teh same thing. Also, a senior DD would better be able to gauge and
test the new DD's abilities.
> You might have the prospective DD undergo a test, where he has to hold
> a passageway against a number of senior DDs. It'd probably be best to
> do this right after the character takes his 1st DD level: that way, he
> can use his nifty new defensive stance ability, which can give him the
> needed edge against otherwise equal- or higher-leveled characters
> (since the attacking defenders will have to move).
See above. I'd do this after he was inducted.
However, being invited to the order after having been observed to behave
like a DD, especially if successful and/or at great sacrifice, makes a
fair amount of sense.
The character could be tested, formally or informally. For prestige
classes with mechanical prereqs that could be tested this way, and
someone who can 'decide' whether the character qualifies, I usually have
him tested this way... in the background. I rarely play it out unless
the player is really stoked about the event.
> Present it so that it seems that the purpose of the test is to hold
> back a number (which the character being tested isn't told) of
> attackers, after which you're deemed appropriate for the order, and
> the test stops... and then just keep the attackers coming, until the
> character is defeated. When he comes to, he's congratulated for
> succeeding on the test; the true purpose isn't to beat back a specific
> number attackers, it's to show you can defend against all odds, until
> the very end, whatever it may be. The only way to fail the test is to
> give up before you're beaten.
Sounds good. Perhaps have a minimum that have to be defeated -- if you
can't do that, you're not good enough (maybe 'not good enough... yet',
but it depends) -- but the number you defeat may affect your initial
standing.
Someone who stands against the minimum gets in. Someone who stands
against several more than the minimum gets in and is well thought of.
Someone who stands against several *times* more than the minimum is
considered to have very good potential in the order.
> Of course, only do this if you can reasonably expect the player to
> stick through the test; you don't want to trick him into failing, just
> give him a moment of doubt to put the success into sharper contrast.
Or don't test *just* fighting ability, but vigilance and attention to
duty.
"You will guard this post until the test is complete." Then:
.. send *no* attackers -- see if he is vigilant the entire time, perhaps
provide something for him to see if he's paying attention. Probably
try to get someone/something past his post
.. send multiple waves of attackers. If he leaves his post after the
first set, thinking the test is over, he fails. If he bandages his
wounds/heals himself (preferably without actually leaving his post)
and continues on watch he passes.
You might include other tests as well. Will he allow the king's
champion pass? Will he stand up to the king's champion and not let him
pass?
>> -- Some sort of shield or other doodad to tell the world that he's a
>> member of this select group
>
> A shield is probably best. A given dwarven defender might go for a
> two- handed weapon (in fact, it's probably a wise choice, since AC is
> going to be good anyway) but they can always make it animated then.
>
> A modest bonus (+1, +2... whatever's appropriate for the level) is
> good, but something not straight out of the DMG is probably better:
> something like the ability to cast shield other...?
See my comments above and in the [kjd-imc] "On Dwarven Arms" I'll be
writing soon.
>> -- A special name they're known by?
>
> Hard to help here without knowing campaign specifics. What are the gods,
> cities, names important to dwarves IYC?
>
> Shields of Moradin, Hands of Azaghal, Defenders of the Homestead, the
> Stonewalls, the Unyielding...?
I prefer to do something like this on principle. Many of the prestige
classes IMC are associated with particular organizations. A single
prestige class may be associated with more than one organization, of
course, but perhaps differently named in each.
This isn't limited to just prestige classes, mind. For instance, the
order of Trenneth (god of justice) includes judges, but also includes
investigators and bounty hunter-types. Many investigators are
bog-standard rogues, class-wise, but aren't called 'rogues of Trenneth'.
Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
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