Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Intel working with AMD??

Last response: in CPUs
Share
February 13, 2002 11:17:38 AM

My school threw out some of their really old pcs and I got my hands on one and to my amazement on a chip, which I think is the CPU, I see Intel and further up AMD...
What is the deal here?? I'll post a picture of the MB later.

More about : intel working amd

February 13, 2002 11:29:07 AM

It is possible. AMD long time ago, before making their own CPU, were building chips for intel as a contractor.

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
February 13, 2002 11:40:26 AM

AMD and intel fvcked each other over so much they eventually made baby silicone.

Ahhhhhh.

<font color=purple><b>Techie2001</font color=purple></b>
<i>(Crazy Alien)</i>
If it ain't broke, Don't fix it. :wink:
Related resources
February 13, 2002 1:10:15 PM

Quote:
AMD and intel fvcked each other over so much they eventually made baby silicone

awww what a cute little insignificant bastard child :smile:

Trusting every aspect of our lives to a giant computer was the greatest thing we ever did -Homer
February 13, 2002 1:21:20 PM

what's that year beside intel?

:wink: Engineering is the science of making life simple, by making it more complicated.
February 13, 2002 1:31:30 PM

It's 1982.
The other writing are:
AMD
N80L286-16/S
H 115ZSVW
(M)(C)INTEL 1982
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Psychotic on 02/13/02 10:33 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
February 13, 2002 2:16:54 PM

That looks like a Bios FLASH chip. AMD manufactures Flash chips, so it is likely that they did work togeather for that chip way back in '82.

This is a non-smoking forum.
If your computer is smoking, please extinguish it immediately.
February 13, 2002 3:15:54 PM

The Bios chips are situated next to the one I have on the photo. Wasn't there a processor called 286? the predecessor of 386?
February 13, 2002 4:33:37 PM

That's 286 processor made by AMD I belive. I have one of those combo machines at work (still running BTW): Intel i80286 with AMD i80287 co-processor - even cooler situation :smile: .
February 13, 2002 4:40:54 PM

Yes, that is a 286 chip. AMD has made every generation of x86 chip since the start. I would need to do some research on why both companys appear on that chip as I dont have much practical experience with 286s (I was like 10 then =)

Jesus saves, but Mario scores!!!
February 13, 2002 5:19:44 PM

BTW
AMDs' ans Cyrixs' 286,386,486 really owned!


This post is best viewed with common sense enabled
February 13, 2002 5:22:41 PM

ya, I had several 386s and a couple 486s. I even purchased one myself a 486-80 at the time when intel was pushing its 66mhz chips hard and the 100 just came out and were 3 or 4 times the price....

Jesus saves, but Mario scores!!!
February 13, 2002 7:43:40 PM

The story I was told a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... Amd used to make Intel chips. Jerry Sanders and the Intel CEO were actually good friends. AMD licensed intel architecture and made Intel clones basically. Intel had no problem with this cuz they couldnt meet demand back then. AMD was actually helping them out. Then Jerry decided to make his own architecture. That essentially ruined their friendship and the two companies have been at each others throat ever since. But it wasnt until the Athlon core that AMD posed even a remote threat.
I got this story from a few guys who have been with AMD for a LONG time. Dont know how accurate it is.

Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.
February 13, 2002 8:45:58 PM

Sounds reasonable, but I too have no proof at all =( The only thing I wonder about is AMD did make its own chip designs since the original x86 chip, and didnt really go balls out to a new architecture until they were already rivals in the days of the super 7 boards unless I am mistaken. I know the 486 cpus were fully compatible with the boards and other equip of the Intel 486s as well as the early K6 line before super7.

Jesus saves, but Mario scores!!!
February 14, 2002 12:30:30 AM

Did he tell you how AMD's workers are?
Is AMD obsessed with money or technology? Are they dedicated people like someone once said about them working in their own rooms or somethin'?

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
February 14, 2002 6:53:57 AM

Ahh yes, a 286 16mhz processor. What a find, lol. Back in its day, this chip was a screamer.

How about a little history lesson for you folks:
1969 - AMD incorporates with $100,000.
1969 - First good die emerges from Fab 1, the Am9300, a 4-bit MSI shift register.
1972 - AMD goes public, issuing 525,000 shares at $15 a share.
1975 - AMD's product line includes the 8080A standard processor and the AM2900 family.
1976 - AMD and Intel sign patent cross-license agreement.
1979 - Company shares listed on New York Stock Exchange.
1981 - AMD chips fly aboard Columbia Space Shuttle.
1981 - AMD and Intel renew and expand their original cross-licensing agreement.
1982 - AMD and Intel sign technology exchange agreement centering on the iAPX86 family of microprocessors and peripherals.
1985 - AMD makes list of Fortune 500 for first time.
1987 - AMD initiates arbitration action against Intel.
March 1991 - AMD introduces the AM386 microprocessor family, breaking the Intel monopoly.
October 1991 - AMD ships its millionth Am386.
1992 - Five-year arbitration with Intel ends, with AMD awarded full rights to make and sell the entire Am386 family of microprocessors.
1993 - First members of the Am486 microprocessor family are introduced.
1994 - Federal court jury confirms AMD's right to Intel microcode in 287 math coprocessor trial.
1993 - Plans for the AMD-K5 project are announced.
1996 - AMD acquires NexGen.
1997 - AMD introduces AMD-K6 processor.
1999 - AMD introduces AMD Athlon processor.

<A HREF="http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/AboutAMD/0,,51_52_53..." target="_new">link</A>

~Sandain
February 14, 2002 9:03:37 AM

Eden, Im not sure about the work ethic of the older crowd at AMD. I know Sanders is literally obsessed with be an industry leader. He holds informal meetings called "Breakfast with Jerry" where he discusses some of the lastest things about AMD and the Industry. Whats interesting isnt what is said at the meeting, but what is said before and after while "working" the room (pressing the flesh). He talks about being the best. But most importantly about not following Intel in any way, shape or form. As evidenced by DDR, SOI etc etc. But Jerry is about gone and Ruiz is about to step in. So who knows. I can say the current crop of guys are all 100% complete computer Nuts. Its not just a job with them, its a passion. Really great group of guys. I can only talk to them for about 10 minutes before I get lost in the "tech-speak". All the ones I talked to knew way more than CPUs. They could talk about anything about a computer on a PHd level. Including the theoretical stuff. (but im sure the same applies to Intel)
Many do take their work home with them, and/or stay up until 4:00am working. A lot have pillows in their cubicles. They know they are the underdog. And IMO it makes them work harder. Almost all of them hold stock in AMD. But if asked they say they bought it to help AMD out, not for investment purposes. Besides they have a profit sharing program for motivation anyway.
I can say they love what they do and are proud of their product. You should have seen that place when Athlon premiered. People had smiles on their faces 24/7 for months. The recent market downturn has soured things some. But there are no more smiles. Only threats. Management has threatened to hang, castrate and burn in effigy anyone leaking info on Hammer. But late at night, when noone is around and you ask. They just smile and nod. In nerdspeak, that means "get ready to drool".
Sorry it was so long, hope it anwswers your question. To Sandain- thanks for the history lesson, it helped


Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.
February 14, 2002 9:54:12 AM

HOW ON EARTH DO YOU GET THIS INFO???
how do you get to talk with AMDs' enginers ???
Do some have ICQ numbers (probably not...)?

i've been studying CPU architecture for some time now

and I'm crazy about AMD as a teenage (only 18 myself) girl is about her favorite pop band!

I repeat:
HOW ON EARTH DO YOU GET THIS INFO???
how do you get to talk with AMDs' enginers ???

some guys are so lucky...


This post is best viewed with common sense enabled
February 14, 2002 10:39:06 AM

Yup, I was right indeed, the guys at AMD besides the chief are indeed hard working enthusiasts not just for the money but for new technology!
Btw I didn't know you were a girl! Heh the identities in this forum are sometimes really hidden...

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
February 14, 2002 10:54:57 AM

I'm not a girl...
:redface:


This post is best viewed with common sense enabled
February 14, 2002 11:04:35 AM

Then what did you write about a teenage girl??

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
February 14, 2002 11:13:22 AM

I said that im crazy about AMD as a teenage girl is about her favorite Pop Group.

not that I myself am a girl...
I used girl in my example
as I cant find any better example of how im crazy about AMD
as a teenage girl (they seem to be crazy enougth) about a pop group.

oh i dunnu maybe its my damn english.
hey im not perfect...


This post is best viewed with common sense enabled
February 14, 2002 11:18:35 AM

oh man i hope fatburger wont change my usertitle to "crazy teenage" or somthing like that!


This post is best viewed with common sense enabled
February 14, 2002 11:29:49 AM

To answer your question: I used to work there. i still have a few friends there too.

Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.
February 14, 2002 11:34:02 AM

in the austin fab ?

This post is best viewed with common sense enabled
February 14, 2002 11:39:37 AM

Yeah, the austin one. I would love to see the Dresden one now thats its .13, but oh well.

Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.
February 14, 2002 11:48:03 AM

Quote:

I would love to see the Dresden one now thats its .13, but oh well.

you souldnt really complain about that... I never saw a FAB in my lifetime.

though we do have an Intel devlopment FAB over here in Israel (currently working on Banias which is also a river in isreal about 15min drive from where i sit) - but its Intels'... who cares.



This post is best viewed with common sense enabled
February 14, 2002 11:50:31 AM

Ive seen a fab, I worked in one(and if this interview on tuesday goes well I will be working in one again).

They are nothing special lol.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 14, 2002 11:55:18 AM

The inside of a fab isnt the big deal you might think it is. There are robotic arms and crap like that. But If you take away the bunny suits, you probably wouldnt even recognize what they were making. Most of the time, the silicon doesnt see daylight (for obvious reasons) so its
hard to tell they are making chips there. Trust me... its a long, long, long complicated process. So the individual stops along the assembly line in a CPUs life are rather dull.

Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.
February 14, 2002 11:55:50 AM

Really?
what do you guys do for a living to be in and around FABs and stuff?

i know my computer scince degree im currently working on is no good to get into FABs...

dont they also design the silicon at the FAB? thats the intresting stuff...

This post is best viewed with common sense enabled
February 14, 2002 12:03:31 PM

The people who actually make the chips are just average folks. They get training, but certainly dont hold a degree. There is no need. The folks who DESIGN the chips, thats where all the brains are. There is some oversight within the fab by the big-wigs though.
Most Fabs will give you a tour if you ask. You cant take pictures and they wont let you see certain things. But im fairly sure you could get a peek at some time.
Actually most people who design the chips never see the fab either. There really isnt a point. Design and manufacture are completely different areas. Manufacture deals more with materials science, complicated chemistry, lasers, masers etc etc. Design is more theoretical and done via software (obviously).

Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.
February 14, 2002 12:06:35 PM

Quote:
The inside of a fab isnt the big deal you might think it is. There are robotic arms and crap like that. But If you take away the bunny suits, you probably wouldnt even recognize what they were making. Most of the time, the silicon doesnt see daylight (for obvious reasons) so its
hard to tell they are making chips there. Trust me... its a long, long, long complicated process. So the individual stops along the assembly line in a CPUs life are rather dull.


That depends on the fab, at fujitsu where I worked(till they shut the fab down) it was manual loading, the new 12 inch fabs are all fully automated(as far as wafer moving and processing) but most 8 inch fabs are open boat fabs(not pod technology which generally requires full automation).

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 14, 2002 12:09:58 PM

Quote:
Really?
what do you guys do for a living to be in and around FABs and stuff?

i know my computer scince degree im currently working on is no good to get into FABs...

dont they also design the silicon at the FAB? thats the intresting stuff...

This post is best viewed with common sense enabled

A: I work in the semiconductor industry heh, my last position was Yield Enhancement Specialist at Fujitsu Microelectronics.

I ran a defect KLA which scans wafers for defects, then I would determine if the level/type of defects warranted further review, and if so I would anaylize the defect on a jeol sem(or near the end, with a semvision, which rocked!) SEM=Scanning electron microscope.

I would then give my front line report to the yield techs who would follow up and give me assignments to determine the cause of the defects and resolve the issue before more wafers were impacted.

I took an image or two and have posted them here before, perhaps I will do so again.




To your second point, they dont design the chips at the fab, usually it is done in a seperate building(although it may be on site) with powerful computer tools.


"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 14, 2002 12:14:57 PM

Quote:
The people who actually make the chips are just average folks. They get training, but certainly dont hold a degree. There is no need


Yep, although it varies from company to company.

At fujitsu the majority of the operators(fab workers) were average joes(even some morons lol). The brains dont start coming untill you hit the specialist and Tech positions.


Quote:
Most Fabs will give you a tour if you ask. You cant take pictures and they wont let you see certain things. But im fairly sure you could get a peek at some time.



A tour of the outside site, and perhaps the office space, however Very few fabs ever give tours of the cleanroom proper, for one it costs from 100-700 dollars to clean a cleanroom gown(depending on material). And two, giving tours just introduces contaminants into the fab which are not neccicary.

I asked about getting burger a tour of fujitsu when I first learned he worked near me in portland, however fujitsu would not even allow non employees on site!



Quote:
Manufacture deals more with materials science, complicated chemistry, lasers, masers etc etc. Design is more theoretical and done via software (obviously).



Dont forget ion implantation, chemecal/plasma etching, photomask, diffusion, and thinfilm layering.(heh sputtering rules!)

And my favorite part, metrology!

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 14, 2002 12:15:59 PM

Thnx for all your answers!
I guess I dont want to work at a FAB after all...
I want to design those chips ! :wink:

This post is best viewed with common sense enabled
February 14, 2002 12:18:05 PM

Designing chips is pretty boring, most of the origional stuff has been done.

Unless you mean like coming up with new semiconductor theory. Designing a chip is mostly having a CAD system take care of 99% of the work!

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 14, 2002 2:13:45 PM

Actaully, both sides (fab and design) are rather boring. I was watching someone compile an upcoming chipset (dont ask). And He had to get the memory calls under 3 nanoseconds to work. In order to do that, he had to manually review about 2,000 lines of code. It all looked the same to me.
The nitty gritty details of getting this high-tech stuff to market is VERY tedious. You have to love what your doing, or you will ram your head through the moniter in frustration.
On the bright side, while the engiineer was explaining some crap he noticed a line of code that was wrong. He fixed it, it compiled correctly. He said he would not have noticed unless he was pointing some stuff out to me. So I had a tincy,wincy, little, tiny part in an upcoming chipset. yeah me :) 


Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.
February 14, 2002 5:22:22 PM

Quote:
oh man i hope fatburger wont change my usertitle to "crazy teenage" or somthing like that!


It's tempting, but I'll let you go :tongue:

J/k, I can't change titles.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
February 14, 2002 8:04:11 PM

What are waffers?
I always I hear about them but I don't understand how making CPU chips work...

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
February 14, 2002 11:22:55 PM

"What are waffers?
I always I hear about them but I don't understand how making CPU chips work..."

:cool: !
:eek:  !
:mad:  !
:eek:  !

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
February 14, 2002 11:37:45 PM

The silicon they make chips out of comes in big solid cylinders. They slice sections off the bottom to made a very thin, circular sheet of silicon (called a <b>silicon wafer</b>), which they then etch a number of chips into. They then separate this grid of chips into individual chips and package them.
<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showimage.html?u=http://im..." target="_new">Here</A> is a picture of a silicon wafer after it's been etched with Northwood cores, but before it's been separated and packaged into individual Northwood CPU's.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
February 14, 2002 11:40:08 PM

Ah yes I saw that pic back when the article was out.
But I don't understand how big is this thing? Is it huge and cut into pieces or something below 1 square meter?
And why cylinder not in square? I mean if chips are not rounded but square...

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
February 14, 2002 11:46:58 PM

Wafers are the thin disc's of silicon on which semiconductor chips are made.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 14, 2002 11:50:13 PM

The wafer in that picture is 200mm across.
It’s circular because it’s easier and cheaper to make the wafer that way. Besides, it would be impossible to make a square exactly the right size so that you didn’t waste space, and you would have to have a different sizes block of silicon for each different chip.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
February 14, 2002 11:59:37 PM

Heh heh, I think I'll need to take a class and read all about it, this seems way too tough to learn just like that...
Anyway thanks!

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
!