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intel or amd ?

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Anonymous
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February 21, 2002 6:17:53 AM

hello guys,

i have to buy another computer (mine is too old) but i wonder which cpu i put into.

i heard something about Hammer & new P4.

i think each one have some advantages and disadvantages ?
which one is the best ?


thanks.

More about : intel amd

February 21, 2002 6:42:36 AM

the most you'll get for the money is going to be the athlon xp1700, if you want the top of the line right now you'll have to go with the P4 2.2Ghz. and if you want the top of the line cpu for the money athlon xp2000+ is the right choice.

if you do have the option to wait do so. get the via kt333A mobo. as far as advantages and disadvantages go, all you have to do is look at some benchmarks. you'll which processor is good at what.


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February 21, 2002 7:03:31 AM

Flame bait here we come....

The hammer is not yet out - AMD is just barely sampling. The next Athlon processor that will be available in April will be the "Thoroughbred" or "Tbred" for short.

Both of the current top contenders from AMD (Athlon XP 2000+) and Intel Pentium 4 2200 are pretty closely matched with the P4 taking a slight lead overall. Price/performance wise, though, the Athlon generally takes the lead. Depending on your overall budget, either one could be the best deal. On the lower to middle end of the budget range (where 90% of the market really is), it is nearly impossible to beat the Athlon for price/performance. At the high end, money no object, have to have it now, P4 is faster - but will usually cost greater than US$500 more for very little recognizable performance difference. The "buy for value and overclock it!" market is where all of the excitement is currently. The just released P4 1.6A "Northwood" processor is proving itself extremely overclockable with most making over 2GHz and many reaching as high as 2.2GHz. Not many Athlon overclockers could match this. But (yeah, the big one) if you're looking to buy in a month or two, you'll have to ask the question again as the Tbred will be out. Most die-hard AMD fans will be waiting right along with you.

I thought a thought, but the thought I thought wasn't the thought I thought I had thought.
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a c 159 à CPUs
a b å Intel
a b À AMD
February 21, 2002 8:13:23 AM

I just set up an epox ep-4sda+ with 1.6a boxed cpu (about $260 shipped- newegg) and it overclocks well. Running at 138 fsb (2.2 gigs) at 1.6 volts and +.1 volts for agp voltage. No guarantees you will see this speed with your setup. Check newegg's refurbished section for hardrives, video cards, and mobos. Free shipping on many items with 30 day warranty. They have good prices on many kt266a boards for the athlon xp.
February 21, 2002 10:09:33 AM

might help if u told us HOW MUCH DO U WANT TO SPEND! :smile:

Overclocked athlon 1200C @ 8.5 x 166FSB + PC2700 = GOOD! :smile:
February 21, 2002 11:13:10 AM

Holy Christ, like this guy couldnt look at the other 400 threads labeled "new rig, need advice, AMD or Intel" etc etc. But I will be civil:

1. Like the others said, how much money ya got.
2. What are gonna do with your new computer
3. Gonna Buy Dell, HP or whatever OR are you gonna build it
yourself.
4. How much storage space ya require ( do you have a lot
of files you wanna hang on to).
5. If a train leaves chicago traveling 60mph, and another leaves Kansas City at 30 mph. Tell me, when will... AHH never mind.

Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
February 22, 2002 6:19:22 AM

i have the money for.
i just want to know the advantages & the disadvantages of each ?

if its possible... ??
February 22, 2002 7:46:45 AM

get an AMD xp. it's cheaper and abit faster than the P4
providing if u can back it up with a powerful GPU. well that's my point of view neway
February 22, 2002 8:24:02 AM

Mastiff, the p4 advantage is if you get the cheap 1.6a you can overclock to about 2-2.2ghz for a low price.


The amd advantage is, its cheap, fast, has an upgrade path, overclocks decently(if thats what you want).

If you want to overclock alot, the 1.6a p4 is a good buy, or you can wait for the .13micron tbred in a month or so, which will overclock just like the northwood.

If you want a good performing system, and dont want to mess with overclocking, grab a 1700+ axp and you will be happy I guarentee.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 22, 2002 8:25:04 AM

Let me stress, that if you do not overclock, the p4 is NOT a good value, and you will pay more for less performance if you buy p4 and dont overclock.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 22, 2002 8:55:05 AM

another thing...
the benchmarks show that a P4 2.2A is arguably a little faster than an AMD XP2000+... but at what cost? do u wish to pay the difference?

i wouldnt, specially as with games its the graphics card that is the bottleneck.

but if you want to overclock, yes the P4 1.6A is the way to go (at the moment).

Overclocked athlon 1200C @ 8.5 x 166FSB + PC2700 = GOOD! :smile:
February 22, 2002 9:16:08 AM

Yes, the extra 300 bucks is ALWAYS better spent elsewhere.


I have argued that if given a set amount of money, say 2000 dollars, if you build two systems one with an axp2000 or a p42.2ghz, there is NO way, that in total the p4 will be faster.

Because you always have an extra 300 bucks for a high end raid card, better video more ram etc.

The only time the p4 is the best buy is when
A: money is no object and you get top of the line EVERYTHING.
B: when you get the 1.6a and overclock it, an advantage which is lessened because.

1: you can get an 1700xp for slightly less and oc it to 2000 speeds purely fsb wise.(which is what I am doing now).
2: when the tbred is released it will overclock just as well as the nw, and thus the advantage there will be back in amds court.


"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 22, 2002 3:11:22 PM

Quote:
when the tbred is released it will overclock just as well as the nw


I'm not so sure about that. The reason I say that is because with past die shrinks, we haven't seen the huge increase in potential that we have with past die shrinks. The question is, is this just passing the right line that gives a huge jump, or is Intel doing something that's never done before? That would make a difference in whether Tbred will overclock as well (I hope it does, but I suspect it won't).

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
February 22, 2002 3:36:11 PM

matisaro, when are you getting your 1.6A? it's sweet!

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
February 22, 2002 5:43:06 PM

Heh, mine's coming today. Can't wait :cool:

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
February 22, 2002 5:43:31 PM

Quote:
matisaro, when are you getting your 1.6A? it's sweet!

Do you have one?

:smile: Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.
February 22, 2002 8:23:04 PM

Quote:
I'm not so sure about that. The reason I say that is because with past die shrinks, we haven't seen the huge increase in potential that we have with past die shrinks. The question is, is this just passing the right line that gives a huge jump, or is Intel doing something that's never done before? That would make a difference in whether Tbred will overclock as well (I hope it does, but I suspect it won't).



The .25 micron athlon topped out at around 750mhz, the .18 micron athlon topped out around 1.5ghz, just from a process shrink(and adding on die cache).

There is no reason the tbred will not gain the same scalability as the p4 from the die shrink, it is pure semiconductor mechanics.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 22, 2002 9:43:17 PM

True indeed. However in scalability if you mean by %, I guess it is on par with the P3's limits at 0.18. I was wondering at first how in hell the Thunderbird 0.18 was able to get over twice the speed by a die shrink and it has so much crammed into it, not to mention heat! Then I see the P3 topping out at 1GHZ with 1.13 being a hellhole. So when was the 0.18 P3 out? If so, can it be considered a 50% increase in speed by the die shrink? If that is the case, regardless that it only had 500 more MHZ in die shrink and the TB had 750MHZ more, if it scaled 50% more in both cases, it proves the XP will be able to do so too like the P4's scalability. Which means the XP should top out at 2.8GHZ before another die shrink or SOI. The reason P4 should scale more is that they reached 2GHZ before shrinking, meaning there should be an average of 4 GHZ before 0.13m starts to drain its strengh and 0.09 will come.

Am I right Mat or partially at least? I'd like to learn as much from these transfers of size and the effects it will give. And I'd say 2.8GHZ is pretty nice considering the P4 3.3GHZ will then be out, they should remain about on par then. Although how Hammer will begin at will then be another weird thought...

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
February 23, 2002 11:25:21 AM

maybe he dont ask about OC but just want to know the basis/basic architecture/fabrication diffs between last AMD & Intel cpus to help him to choice one.


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
February 23, 2002 12:06:28 PM

Quote:
2.8GHZ before another die shrink or SOI. The reason P4 should scale more is that they reached 2GHZ before shrinking, meaning there should be an average of 4 GHZ before 0.13m starts to drain its strengh and 0.09 will come.


Thats exactly what I am saying, the % gain from the tbred will be about equal to the % gain of the p4, not true clock speed, but % of clock speed yes.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 23, 2002 12:07:51 PM

Fabrication methods dont mean anything, chip performance should be your determining factor, if he wants to know which chip is better, I told him.

P41.6a if you plan on overclocking
axp1700+ if you stay at stock.


SImple as that.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 23, 2002 4:03:42 PM

maybe a little too ?


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
February 23, 2002 6:12:50 PM

You know what's funny though Mat?
Even though some beleive they got the max performance at 2.2GHZ (true for much of the gaming and video encoding, not focusing on speed but just the performance regardless of any other factor despite such ridiculously high MHZ for that), the fact that some things like the FPU and Cache are missing, and looking at benchs with 3dStudio Max or Photoshop, you'll know that it still is not performing any better! In AMD_Man's MORE CONSIDERATION thread, Ray posted a link to how much PC1066 and 533FSB would help (not that much impressed IMO, thought the bandwidth would help like many said, but not that much to notice) and in it shows how even at 2GHZ, the 1.33GHZ is still takes almost 30% to render a huge scene. It just shows that even at so much speed, there are still many holes. That's why any P4 at any speed will continue to have many weaknesses until one updates those old components in it.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
February 23, 2002 6:27:08 PM

Yes, the P4 is still not an FPU champion, but right now, a P4 2.2GHz can beat an AXP in many benchmarks. Another plus, is that the P4 overclocking extremely well with the right motherboard. That's why I'm finding it extremely hard to choose my upcoming upgrade path.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
February 23, 2002 6:36:29 PM

Wait for Tbred, for sure Overclocking will be worth it. However even at 2.2GHZ I suspect it is still filled with holes in rendering programs. I do not know, and would like some results of 3d Studio Max if possible to see. But that's even a TB doing this job! Imagine an AXP with SSE! That means the competition is still not near the P4's side in rendering.

Ya OCing is worth it on P4, but if there are holes, how do you cover them? They will remain in any given clock speed until Intel fills them with the correct "rocks and rubble".

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
February 23, 2002 7:22:20 PM

Amd, I think what eden is trying to say, is that the axp's performance does not vary wildly, it does well in everything, but the p4 varies from being uberfast, to crap.(lightwave7b-compiling linux kernals for example).

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
February 23, 2002 7:42:05 PM

Exactly what I mean. And that cripples the thought of getting one, because there will be flaws here and there. Just imagine having paid 950$ CDN for that 2.2GHZ and find out it still takes time to make those rendering movies on 3d Studio MAX or whatever...programmers tend to be very time-wary.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
February 24, 2002 3:25:25 AM

you guys are wrong. all of you. forget all this amd intel crap. the cpu of the choice should be intellon. you know you want one, huh?

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February 24, 2002 3:38:03 AM

I don't mean to offend anybody here, but isn't it kind of retarded to ask the EXACT same question everyday? There are a whole boatload (read: crapload) of AMD vs Intel or Intel vs AMD threads.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
February 24, 2002 3:57:53 AM

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&..." target="_new">Intel or AMD</A>

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&..." target="_new">XP or P4</A>

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&..." target="_new">AMD or PENTIUM</A>

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&..." target="_new">best bang for buck?</A>

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
!