Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Which would be better?

Last response: in CPUs
Share
March 2, 2002 10:13:11 PM

alright, i've been off the computer scene for awhile so I kinda forget and don't quite remember.

I'm torn between getting an AthlonXP 2000, (and overclock it), or getting a Northwood 1.6A..... My watercooler shoudl overclock them quite nicely, but I was wondering which one would be faster after overclocking? Like, I'm expecting 2GHZ out of the athlon and possibly higher with the northwood (with my watercooler of course). I just dunno which one's better.

<font color=red>DO NOT LIGHT YOURSELF ON FIRE</font color=red>

More about : question

March 2, 2002 10:37:00 PM

Get a 1700+ and overclock that, you will most likely reach the same or close to the same level of the 2000+'s overclock, and save 100+. And when the tbred comes out, pop that in for EXTREME overclocking.

The NW 1.6a is ok, but you have to get just the exact components to take you very high, and even then, unless you go over 2.4ghz the extra 50 bucks over the 1700+ is not worth it. The limit for the p4 chip is not the cpu itself, but the ram and mobo, so your watercooler would be rather useless. It is not so much about the chip, but about the ram IMO for the p4 OC.

My advice, pick up the 1700+, cheap and fast(even a 1600+ would be good, but the 1700 is only 5 bucks more).
Or wait till the tbred next month or so. With the ability to unlock your watercooler would be put to good use, unlike the p4 solution where the cpu mostlikely will not be the bottleneck.


Or you could do like fugger and take everything out of your pc except the video to get that 2.6ghz speed!

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
March 2, 2002 10:41:51 PM

yeah, i also had the dillema of the RAMBUS P4 board, or the DDR p4 board. It seems that the 2.6GHz on rambus is faster than the 3GHz with DDR, however i don't wish to run my system on such high AGP and PCI bus frequencies (as when i buy this stuff i'll probably get a GeForce4 or something as well)....

Not talking about money now, would an athlon overclocked or a 2.2GHz northwood (with DDR, since it will go higher and also not run my buses up too high) be better?......

<font color=red>DO NOT LIGHT YOURSELF ON FIRE</font color=red>
Related resources
March 2, 2002 10:46:52 PM

Money aside.

The NW 2.2 overclocked to its max on a ddr board would dominate the max axp. The .13micron process ensures that.(in 1 month the tbred will change this however) but today, money aside, the NW would dominate.

The only thing that the axp can do to counter is max itself out around 2ghz real clock speed, MAYBE reaching about 2800mhz p4/ddr performance, more if you upped the fsb to 166.

SO price aside, the NW would be the better performer.

With money included, you would be crazy to pay 500 bucks for a cpu which at 3ghz would outperform a 108$ cpu by about 10%(or so).(axp1700+@166fsb@1900-2000mhz).

IMO the choice is rather clear(axp, its 400 less, theres your gf4), however I would reccomend rambus for the p4 regardless, ddr is too much of a performance hit.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
March 2, 2002 11:02:34 PM

Matisaro = FUD

Pile on the BS

I dont pull out all my parts for 2.6Ghz, that was to help Fatburger eliminate all variables to solve a problem. GG

I can reach/post 3Ghz with the 1.6A if I pull all my part out. Im benching with stability @ 2.6Ghz with sound and PCI card installed on air no watercooling, pelts or LN2.

The 1.6A is $140 and overclocks extreamly well, your using watercooling so you should go far with overclocking.

www.vr-zone.com has a nice list of Northwood overclocks even a 1.6A hitting 3.6Ghz

BTW Matisaro, anyone who benches for highest possible score with Intel or AMD pull the hardware.

With the 1.6A you get extreme overclocking potential and little to no risk of a core meltdown.

My lil 1.6a will spank any 2000+ overclocked =) the 1700+ doesnt have a chance in hell.

Proving once again that <A HREF="http://www.zombo.com" target="_new">anything is possible</A>.
March 2, 2002 11:03:30 PM

Hmm.... gives me something to think about. The thing I don't like about the new AMD cpu's is that I can't overclock that high without doing some sort of voltage mod - which i did to my old A7V and fried it. The new tbreds, where can i get info on them???

<font color=red>DO NOT LIGHT YOURSELF ON FIRE</font color=red>
March 2, 2002 11:10:59 PM

With the TH7-II you dont have to worry about running PCI/AGP/Mem at unsafe levels.

Even with the 2000+ you have very very very very very very very small chance of reaching 2Ghz and if you do, you will not be able to run at that speed for any length of time.

Check out vr-zone.com's XP overclocking database, the site is slow be patiant. skip the first page, those guys use every mod in the book just to post at 2Ghz and boot into windows for the SS of Wcpuid. Your not in the LN2, Vapochill, dry ice league let alone every possible volt mod known.

My motherboard is virgin, no mods.

Proving once again that <A HREF="http://www.zombo.com" target="_new">anything is possible</A>.
March 2, 2002 11:14:09 PM

LoL, fff.

Run along fugger, nothing I said was untrue or FUD.

All I said was his rambus would be the limiting factor, I never said the chip wouldnt go to 3ghz, infact I made it clear that the .13micron process allows the p4 to go very high, why so defensive?

You pull out all your parts to get the 3ghz overclock, my comment on that is 100% TRUE. Quit complaining and live with it.

Quote:
My lil 1.6a will spank any 2000+ overclocked =) the 1700+ doesnt have a chance in hell.


If you knew anything about overclocking an amd, the 2000+ and the 1700+ both top out about the same, so for all intents and purposes they are the same chip. Your 1.6a @2.6ghz will NOT beat a axp at 2ghz clockspeed, ESPECIALLY if its at166fsb, so take your fud and misinformation and run along little troll.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
March 2, 2002 11:16:42 PM

Quote:
With the TH7-II you dont have to worry about running PCI/AGP/Mem at unsafe levels.


What do you do when you reach a fsb which makes your memory the bottleneck, the chip will still have room to go, but the memory will hold you back.


Quote:
Even with the 2000+ you have very very very very very very very small chance of reaching 2Ghz and if you do, you will not be able to run at that speed for any length of time.


You have a tiny chance to reach 2000 mhz, but ignore the whole first page of poeple who did, pathetic fugger.



"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
March 2, 2002 11:19:51 PM

BTW, fugger. He wouldnt have to reach 2000ghz to make it a great purchase, an overclock to 1900mhz@166fsb would be quite good, and would beat a p4@2.6ghz with ddr ram.

SO again, spread some fud, come on, im waiting.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
March 2, 2002 11:24:59 PM

My 1700+@150fsb is neck and neck with Burgers p4 on rambus@140fsb.

And IM on a kg7raid motherboard not a kt266a or kt333.

A 166fsb 1700+ Would tie a 2.5ghz p4 on rambus(if you could get it that high due to ram limitations), and thusly, it could beat a 2.8-9ghz p4 on ddr according to the proof toms testing gave us.

Its all there laid out plain as day, why cant you see it.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
March 2, 2002 11:28:56 PM

Well see the problem is, (and I know this from personal experience hehe), the Athlon chips are VERY VERY EXTREMELY VERY VERY easy to fry/wreck. maybe not the tbred or hammer, i dunno, but the current athlons definately are..... I kind of want to stick with AMD, but I am unsure. Intel's doing not bad lately.... I really have to wait and see what the tbreds do.

<font color=red>DO NOT LIGHT YOURSELF ON FIRE</font color=red>
March 2, 2002 11:29:16 PM

Agreed, as long as he gets PC2700 and a board that supports the 333MHz without overclocking the PCI and AGP bus, he'll be able to get to 166/333MHz FSB. However, getting the CPU to 2GHz maybe a bit of a stretch with air cooling.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
March 2, 2002 11:32:13 PM

He has watercooling.

Even 1866mhz is a very good overclock, and will give GOBS of performance.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
March 2, 2002 11:36:31 PM

Quote:
Well see the problem is, (and I know this from personal experience hehe), the Athlon chips are VERY VERY EXTREMELY VERY VERY easy to fry/wreck. maybe not the tbred or hammer, i dunno, but the current athlons definately are..... I kind of want to stick with AMD, but I am unsure. Intel's doing not bad lately.... I really have to wait and see what the tbreds do.


Yes they can be, but if taken slow, and you dont do anything funky, theres no danger.

There is no need to do any voltage mods, 1.85 in the bios will get you 1900mhz(or thereabouts).

When the tbred is released it will give the same % overclock as the NW, and if the axp can hold out against all but the most extreme p4 oc's(3ghz with nothing in ala fugger) then imagine what the tbred will be able to accomplish@!


All on the same motherboard, so picking up a new kt333 and some pc2700 ram would be a great investment either way.

In fact, the best thing TO do would be get a nice amount of cas 2 pc2700, and a kt333 mobo, and run your current tbird at 166fsb, then when the tbred comes out, purchase it, swap it out and overclock that son of a bitch!

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
March 2, 2002 11:37:08 PM

im using watercooling though.

and if i do go athlon i dunno what mobo to get. im out of touch. hehe.

<font color=red>DO NOT LIGHT YOURSELF ON FIRE</font color=red>
March 2, 2002 11:37:46 PM

Something with a kt333 chipset.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
March 2, 2002 11:59:47 PM

yes, i went back and read all toms' new stuff that ive missed in the last... 6 months. :) 

anyways i've got my list of stuff. the Intel, with the 1.6GHz northwood and gigabyte DDR mobo is $1632 CDN. this is with 512MB PC2700, cpu, mobo, Geforce4 ti 4600, and two 40GB ibm 60gxp's for RAID.

The same setup, just with the A7V333 and Athlon XP1700 is $1600. Now I have the choice, heh... (the system with the Northwood 2.2A was $2169! :o  ). i will loook through more reviews and stuff, and see if the overclocked 1.6 or xp1700 is better. or you can just tell me. ;) 

<font color=red>DO NOT LIGHT YOURSELF ON FIRE</font color=red>
March 3, 2002 12:29:57 AM

If you dont feel confident you can get more than 2.4ghz out of the p4, the amd setup WILL perform better, if the p4 setup is ddr, then make that number 2.5.

If you can get above 2.5, then you will be ok as far as performance goes to go with the NW, however there is the matter of 30 bucks difference, so why pay more for the same speed.

Totally up to you, but again, the choice is relativly clear IMO.(you would have to get 2.5ghz out of the p4 to make the intel setup worth it, and thats not guarenteed by any means).

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
March 3, 2002 12:40:32 AM

I agree with MAT; go with the AMD system now, save your 30 bucks and save up to replace your proc with a Tbred about 1-2 months after they pop - give 'em time to sell off all of the low yield chips.

I thought a thought, but the thought I thought wasn't the thought I thought I had thought.
March 3, 2002 12:46:47 AM

yeah, well i probably won't be doing this for another two months anyways, so by the time the tbred rolls around i'll be ready to grab it. :-) and the prices of geforce4 will be lower as well. at least they're got friggin crazy like the geforce3 was when it came out ($500+)

<font color=red>DO NOT LIGHT YOURSELF ON FIRE</font color=red>
March 3, 2002 1:36:03 AM

I say this !!!

p4 1.6a + SiS 645 Mobo + DDR 333

DDR 333 runs at 166mhz so you get far with it.

THGC, saving 1 pc user from buying a GeForce4 MX at a time.
March 3, 2002 2:08:53 AM

I don't want SiS though. I want either Intel 845, i850, or KT333.... SiS is crappy

<font color=red>DO NOT LIGHT YOURSELF ON FIRE</font color=red>
March 3, 2002 2:13:35 AM

If Fugger wants to begin a debate (if trolls can do that) or a flame war against you, I sincerly wish him good luck, there's probably no way that troll will ever be able to argue against you! You're damn agressive in debates, like the one with Slvr_Phoenix, and that was one nice informative debate! Fugger better watch his back. And everyone's probably right, the Tbred will make your money much more worth it, because even 66MHZ increases a lot, it equals about 2 P4 releases! This means that OCing it, would almost equal 6 P4s later on! Imagine the value....just imagine... Fugger will be so toppled, he has no chance at all!

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
March 3, 2002 2:29:29 AM

Well I went at look at the benchmark and it seems a 2.4 / 2.6+ GHz northwood beats a 1.9GHz athlon in the majority of things. Now i've heard that 2.4GHz + can be achieved with the 1.6A........ this is very tough descision!!....

<font color=red>DO NOT LIGHT YOURSELF ON FIRE</font color=red>
March 3, 2002 3:08:41 AM

2.4-2.6 on RAMBUS, on ddr its another story.

It is not easy to get a 1.6a to reach 2.4ghz, ask fatburger.

The debate comes down to if you think you will be able to hit 2.4, if not, the amd is the best buy. Hopw you get lucky with the rdram.

Also, the new mobo now and reuse the tbird you have strategy sounds like the best bet to me, you will have a boost in performance today, and room to get the ULTRA overclock tomorow.


"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
March 3, 2002 3:10:07 AM

I think their is a lot of spanking (ie. spanking the monkey) going on when your and your P4 are alone together.
Lol. couldn't resist that one.
You BS your people, I will BS my people, but let's not BS each other (or anyone else on THG). There's no big reason (right now anyway) to buy one over the other. Performance is within 5-10% and price is not much of a factor anymore either. It's more personal preference now. New m/b's will most likey be required for the next big upgrade too. T-bred will run cooler(more Mhz) and keep up with the P4 as it speed increases but the next big thing is Hammer at the end of this year. That will be the next big difference between AMD and Intel. Tweaking a CPU is fine but I don't see anybody "spanking" the other at this time.
March 3, 2002 3:31:23 AM

I'm doing my research... If i can hit 2.4+ i will go with it. just for a change. I haven't bought Intel for quite a long time. :-)

<font color=red>DO NOT LIGHT YOURSELF ON FIRE</font color=red>
March 3, 2002 4:55:50 AM

Consider the following

P4 1.6a $139
Abit Th7-II w/RAID $159
Samsung RDR $70x2 256MB
Gainward GF4 750/Ultra GS $379
Enermax 431 PSU since your going with raid. unless you already have a beefy PSU with your AMD.

With watercooling you will be able to hit 2.4Ghz, prove me wrong and hit higher.

DDR does not perform as well as RDR, it costs about the same.

Proving once again that <A HREF="http://www.zombo.com" target="_new">anything is possible</A>.
March 3, 2002 5:28:09 AM

Fugger i would go for the DDR 333 combo on this one. The SiS 645 can match i850 in benchmarks.

THGC, saving 1 pc user from buying a GeForce4 MX at a time.
March 3, 2002 5:29:49 AM

Buy either one. Who really cares? Just don't buy too much of the hype. If you listen to Raystonn and Fugger, EVERYONE is hitting 2.5 Ghz - 2.6 Ghz or higher. I'm not seeing it.

Face the facts, they're both comparable. You will however have to apparently do a crap load of tweaking to get the 1.6a to perform, but once done I don't think anyone can complain about it all. I'm watching Fatburgers progress. He's at 2.4 Ghz. See if he can go higher. Better yet, just wait for the T-bred and the 133 Mhz FSB Northwoods and hopefully you won't have to jump through all these hoops. It will probably be a lot easier to decide. You've got a couple months right?

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
March 3, 2002 6:09:48 AM

I agree with dh, spot on. I have made the points for both sides, its up to griz to choose based on personal preference.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
March 3, 2002 6:40:04 AM

ALso, I would stay away from RDR. It does perform better but Intel is dropping support for it.

Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.
March 3, 2002 10:46:29 AM

60GXP bad.........if you are going to get IBM, only way to go is with the 120 GXPs......

go with the 80 gigs, and promise's new raid card coming out is a thing of beauty....Raid 5 baby....
March 3, 2002 11:26:53 AM

Ok, Grizely, if you really want to try to get to 2.4GHz or above with a 1.6A P4 then there are really only two motherboards you can choose from:

For RDRAM, the best overclocking motherboard is the Abit TH7-II. For DDR RAM, is the ABit BD7. THe BD7 is based on the 845D chipset. Either one of these motherboards seemingly lock the PCI bus to 33MHz to allow you to get to higher FSB speeds. However, if you do decide to get a BD7, do get PC2700 DDR RAM so that you can easily overclock it.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
March 3, 2002 3:00:22 PM

Well see, the only thing I am worried about is bumping my FSB up to 155. Don't the RDRAM boards keep the 1/2 AGP bus and 1/3 PCI bus after 133 and don't change?? Which would mean the AGP bus would be 78MHz, and the PCI 39MHz.... that's a little over the normal speeds for me. But this may not be true with the ABit TH7-IIR... Does anyone have an answer for me?

<font color=red>DO NOT LIGHT YOURSELF ON FIRE</font color=red>
March 3, 2002 3:02:09 PM

The reason I believe I would be able to get to 2.4, possibly higher, is because, well people are hitting 2.4 and higher WITH AIR COOLING. My watercooler is a far better heat dissapater than any heatsink.

<font color=red>DO NOT LIGHT YOURSELF ON FIRE</font color=red>
March 3, 2002 3:03:24 PM

Well the reason I was going to get a 40GB 60GXP is cause I already have one right now. Then i'd have two. I love them, they're fast and quiet and reliable. I really don't want to spend more $$$ on different drives.... :/ 

<font color=red>DO NOT LIGHT YOURSELF ON FIRE</font color=red>
March 3, 2002 3:04:23 PM

(read my first post in this line of posts, heh)

does this mean the RAMBUS abit board would keep the 33/66 pci/agp buses even at a 155 mhz fsb, or even higher fsb?

<font color=red>DO NOT LIGHT YOURSELF ON FIRE</font color=red>
March 3, 2002 9:26:47 PM

Quote:
The reason I believe I would be able to get to 2.4, possibly higher, is because, well people are hitting 2.4 and higher WITH AIR COOLING. My watercooler is a far better heat dissapater than any heatsink.



THe limiting factor of your overclock will NOT be the cpu, it WILL be the ram, at 133fsb your ram will be at x3, and for every mhz you go over 133, your ram speed goes up 3. You will hit the limit of your rdram WAY before you hit the limit of your chip.

So you can get whatever speed you were going to anyways with an aircooler as opposed to your watercooler simply because your bottleneck will NOT be the cpu.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
March 3, 2002 9:39:11 PM

hey grizz, if u want a nice mobo i suggest the epox kt333 based chipset, combined with corsair XMS2700 cas2 ram and an unlocked XP2000+ should do you nicely

also, a word of warning, it seems some northwood 1.6A's dont seem to be able to get above 2.2Ghz, regardless of mobo/mem combo.
500mhz is nice, but dont automatically expect a magical 2.6ghz like what-his-name.


"I came, I saw, I overclocked", Julius 'Smokin CPU' Caesar :smile:
March 3, 2002 9:49:02 PM

Yep, you may get a dud, another thought to consider.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
March 3, 2002 9:54:45 PM

Quote:


also, a word of warning, it seems some northwood 1.6A's dont seem to be able to get above 2.2Ghz, regardless of mobo/mem combo.

Grizely has a water-cooling system and therefore I think 2.5~2.6GHz is practically guaranteed if the RAM can handle it.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
March 3, 2002 10:13:06 PM

Actually no, amd_man, there are duds out there which top out around 2.2 period.

Think about it, its a 600mhz overclock!

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
March 3, 2002 10:38:44 PM

Perhaps...

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
March 3, 2002 11:35:25 PM

my first system was 300mhz. 600mhz is alot and i still use the 300 mhz machine.

THGC, saving 1 pc user from buying a GeForce4 MX at a time.
March 3, 2002 11:41:42 PM

My first system was a 486DX 33MHz, lol. I don't have it anymore.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
March 4, 2002 12:18:39 AM

(I'm replying to AMD_Man simply because his is the last post.)

First off, Intel is <b><i>NOT</i></b> dropping RDRAM (unless it just hasn't been announced yet). This has been talked over in the Memory section and in other forums, head there if you want more info.

Second, I'm at 2.48741MHz with this post. That's a 155MHz FSB, with the RAM running at 3/4 speed. That puts my RAM about 5% under PC1066 speeds. My original goal for this system was 133MHz with full speed RAM. I've got my RAM at that, and my CPU a decent amount higher. That's only based on Sandra benchmarks, BTW.

Sandra benchmarks are always posted in my thread in the CPU overclocking section, when I find the ceiling I'll test for stability and post several benchmarks.

I might grab one of the new socket 478 Alphas, but it's kind of nice having an overclock with the retail heatsink, even though it's lower :tongue:

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Don't step in the sarcasm!
March 4, 2002 2:43:28 AM

Have you been running under full load and testing it in practice as well as benchmarking it? I find that to be the true test.

You're so close to 2.5 Ghz...you must be able to taste it!

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
March 4, 2002 10:43:27 AM

another reason I wanted to go with a Socket478 board is so later on I could get a 2.2A or higher and go to 3+ Ghz :-)

<font color=red>DO NOT LIGHT YOURSELF ON FIRE</font color=red>
!