Sub 1 CR Encounters

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

I am starting a new campaign, with two PC's. They are
Monk 1 and Fighter 1.

This means a fair amount of combat. I am a little concerned about
what EL to encounter them with. I am planning to throw in a
cleric NPC that they can go to for healing, but who will not
participate in combat.

All of the 1/3 and 1/2 CR monsters seem appropriate as encounters
but I am not sure.

Anyone have experience setting up encounters for only two low-level
characters?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Decalod, 4 or 5 kobolds (CR 1/6) work perfectly, or just 2 kobolds and
a mule. Mules have CR higher than kobolds...sad. Anyway, some odd
combination of fractional CRs works well.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Symbol wrote:
> Your starting point is to work out the average party level as if it had
> four members (for a two member party ((ECL1+ECL2) / 4) obviously). At
> first level this result is 0.5. You can now treat EL 1/2 encounters for
> this group as you would EL 1 encounters for a full group and you are good
> to go. This hasn't ever been a major problem for us until higher levels
> when you need a more diverse range of abilities but we haven't played this
> way much.

Thanks!

This is what I figured, but I wanted some independent confirmation.

I have used the EL/CR system with my groups since 3.0 came out, and it
has
always worked well. With numeric systems like these, I am always
concerned
as to how well they work (or are playtested) on the "edges" (few low
level
characters/lots of high level characters). The experience table seems
to
suffer in odd situations...

A couple kobolds, an orc, a human warrior, are all about 1/2. There
are
plenty of animals and vermin that are sub 1 cr as well.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"decalod85" <decalod85@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1118116997.950874.325360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I am starting a new campaign, with two PC's. They are
> Monk 1 and Fighter 1.
>
> This means a fair amount of combat. I am a little concerned about
> what EL to encounter them with. I am planning to throw in a
> cleric NPC that they can go to for healing, but who will not
> participate in combat.
>
> All of the 1/3 and 1/2 CR monsters seem appropriate as encounters
> but I am not sure.
>
> Anyone have experience setting up encounters for only two low-level
> characters?

Your starting point is to work out the average party level as if it had
four members (for a two member party ((ECL1+ECL2) / 4) obviously). At
first level this result is 0.5. You can now treat EL 1/2 encounters for
this group as you would EL 1 encounters for a full group and you are good
to go. This hasn't ever been a major problem for us until higher levels
when you need a more diverse range of abilities but we haven't played this
way much.

 

[Spinner]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

> Anyone have experience setting up encounters for only two low-level
> characters?
>
You might want to create lower CR versions of some humanoids or even
monsters to make things a tad more interesting for these starting PCs.
Kobolds and mules get stale after a while. Try creating a "commoner"
version of a goblin or hobgoblin at CR 1/4 -- or a baby manticore with
severely reduced stats. Use Savage Species or some of the WotC web site
Savage Species articles to create a really low CR monster. Hey, if you can
fight young dragons, you can fight young dinosaurs or umber hulks.

Spinner

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"decalod85" <decalod85@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1118147362.356881.97810@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Symbol wrote:
> > Your starting point is to work out the average party level as if it
had
> > four members (for a two member party ((ECL1+ECL2) / 4) obviously). At
> > first level this result is 0.5. You can now treat EL 1/2 encounters
for
> > this group as you would EL 1 encounters for a full group and you are
good
> > to go. This hasn't ever been a major problem for us until higher
levels
> > when you need a more diverse range of abilities but we haven't played
this
> > way much.
>
> Thanks!
>
> This is what I figured, but I wanted some independent confirmation.

No problem. Just remember that my experience of such occurrences is
limited.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Symbol wrote:
> "decalod85" <decalod85@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1118116997.950874.325360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > I am starting a new campaign, with two PC's. They are
> > Monk 1 and Fighter 1.
> >
> > This means a fair amount of combat. I am a little concerned about
> > what EL to encounter them with. I am planning to throw in a
> > cleric NPC that they can go to for healing, but who will not
> > participate in combat.
> >
> > All of the 1/3 and 1/2 CR monsters seem appropriate as encounters
> > but I am not sure.
> >
> > Anyone have experience setting up encounters for only two low-level
> > characters?
>
> Your starting point is to work out the average party level as if it had
> four members (for a two member party ((ECL1+ECL2) / 4) obviously). At
> first level this result is 0.5. You can now treat EL 1/2 encounters for
> this group as you would EL 1 encounters for a full group and you are good
> to go. This hasn't ever been a major problem for us until higher levels
> when you need a more diverse range of abilities but we haven't played this
> way much.

Your math is way off. If I have 2 lv 20's that's (20+20)/4 = 10, where
it should be 18...

Fractional CRs are wierd in that they add directly instead of the
increase 2 per doubling rule with 1+ CRs, so that makes it a bit more
difficult as well. So lets treat the PCs as an NPC encounter. Now a
standard 4 member 1st lv party would be EL 5, but as PCs are ballanced
against an EL 1. Since you have only 2 1st lv characters you have them
as an EL of 3. that's 2 ELs less than the full party. Now to figure
out what that actually should be put up against is a bit more
difficult. It's easy once they are level 3, because they then are
ballanced against an EL 1. Sou you need to subtract 2 from 1 to figure
out what they should be, but that's an EL -1, and there is no such
thing... So what I do in these cases is figue based on the levels of
fractions there are - There are CR 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/6, 1/8, and 1/10...
So I figure an EL 0 to be equal to CR 1/2, and a CR 1/3 to be EL -1.

Of course there's another way to look at it, which is how much xp they
need to advance, and if you go that way you do get EL .5 to advance at
the same rate as a party of 4... Then for Lv 2 you get EL 1. Lv 3
gets weird though, EL is 1.5 Lv 4 is EL 2, and you keep on from there
at a steady 2 lower than normal. That's probably the easiest and best
way to do it.

- Justisaur

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Or (as in most "real" drama) get em fighting lev 1 human warriors (or
mules)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

The big problem with only having 2 PCs is the effect that one bad roll
can have - in a 4 character party one bad roll (a failed save v sleep
or whatever) can take out 1/4 of the party, but with just 2 it takes
out half the party... there'll be a possible TPK staring you in the
face every time this happens.

Is there a reason why you can't just give each player 2 PCs each?

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Justisaur" <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118185046.044159.10670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Symbol wrote:
> > "decalod85" <decalod85@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:1118116997.950874.325360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > I am starting a new campaign, with two PC's. They are
> > > Monk 1 and Fighter 1.
> > >
> > > This means a fair amount of combat. I am a little concerned about
> > > what EL to encounter them with. I am planning to throw in a
> > > cleric NPC that they can go to for healing, but who will not
> > > participate in combat.
> > >
> > > All of the 1/3 and 1/2 CR monsters seem appropriate as encounters
> > > but I am not sure.
> > >
> > > Anyone have experience setting up encounters for only two low-level
> > > characters?
> >
> > Your starting point is to work out the average party level as if it
had
> > four members (for a two member party ((ECL1+ECL2) / 4) obviously). At
> > first level this result is 0.5. You can now treat EL 1/2 encounters
for
> > this group as you would EL 1 encounters for a full group and you are
good
> > to go. This hasn't ever been a major problem for us until higher
levels
> > when you need a more diverse range of abilities but we haven't played
this
> > way much.
>
> Your math is way off. If I have 2 lv 20's that's (20+20)/4 = 10, where
> it should be 18...

Yes so it should, at least according to the way its done on the calculator
at www.d20srd.org

for characters = 2

level 1 = avg 0.5
2 = avg 1
3 = avg 1.4
from then on avg = lvl-2

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

IHateLashknife@hotmail.com wrote:
> The big problem with only having 2 PCs is the effect that one bad roll
> can have - in a 4 character party one bad roll (a failed save v sleep
> or whatever) can take out 1/4 of the party, but with just 2 it takes
> out half the party... there'll be a possible TPK staring you in the
> face every time this happens.
>
> Is there a reason why you can't just give each player 2 PCs each?

This is a good idea unless they are newbies.

I'd give them a cohort each, that way they each have a primary
character, and a simple(r) cohort. This way they can design a support
charcter for thier main character as well, and get a bit of synergy.
If they want something really simple (or you do) give them a couple
warriors (yes the NPC class).

I also find playing an NPC in the party really helps me out, as it
gives me a bit more empathy, and I have a voice as well. You have to
be careful if you do this though. The NPC should be equal or perhaps
even less powerful than the PCs (i.e. equal or 1 level lower, give them
only 1/2 share of xp, and definatly do not equip them better than the
PCs). I've known some DMs who run supper high level NPCs which steal
the spotlight all the time, and that's just no fun for the players (I
don't really see how it's fun for the DM very long either, but it must
be or they wouldn't do it), and might as well be playing by himself at
that point.

If the party doesn't have a divine type already (which in this case it
doesn't) I'd recommend a Favored Soul (miniatures handbook & some
other books), it's a lot less work than a cleric, being a sort of
divine version of the sorcerer, this also allows you to focus more on
healing, so the players don't go, "But just memorize a ____ for
tomorrow" and allows you to cast on the fly so you don't have to
prepare a spell list every day. If you really want to make it simple
take a Vow of Poverty from the Book of Exalted deeds, so the party
doesn't have to equip him, and there may be something about Pacifist as
well.

They also have a Healer class in the miniatures handbook, but they get
a companion which will mean you are running 2 party NPCs, and you don't
want to do that, 1 is plenty. Basically the same reason you don't want
to run a Druid. If you don't mind doing that.

- Justisaur

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

IHateLashknife@hotmail.com wrote:
> The big problem with only having 2 PCs is the effect that one bad roll
> can have - in a 4 character party one bad roll (a failed save v sleep
> or whatever) can take out 1/4 of the party, but with just 2 it takes
> out half the party... there'll be a possible TPK staring you in the
> face every time this happens.
>
> Is there a reason why you can't just give each player 2 PCs each?

The players are 9 and 7 (my sons) and they are just learning to play
this
summer. The adventures are primarily going to be dungeon crawls with
a small amount of role-playing. They will mostly face monsters, with
few or no spell like abilities. And, I know how to fudge a roll or
two...

I'm going to give them an NPC cleric (a pacifist) who will mostly get
out
of the way and heal them as they do good. I am not too concerned about
the roleplaying implications of a pacifist cleric healing two guys who
will probably use force to solve most problems! ;-)

My 7 year old told his mom - "I can hardly wait to kill some monsters!"

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Justisaur wrote:
[snip]
> If the party doesn't have a divine type already (which in this case it
> doesn't) I'd recommend a Favored Soul (miniatures handbook & some
> other books), it's a lot less work than a cleric, being a sort of
> divine version of the sorcerer, this also allows you to focus more on
> healing, so the players don't go, "But just memorize a ____ for
> tomorrow" and allows you to cast on the fly so you don't have to
> prepare a spell list every day. If you really want to make it simple
> take a Vow of Poverty from the Book of Exalted deeds, so the party
> doesn't have to equip him, and there may be something about Pacifist as
> well.

Hey, there is my pacifist-non-fighting cleric.

Thanks!