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Pirate Bay Denies Illegal Activity

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February 17, 2009 6:07:02 PM

Wow, does this guy live in the stone ages?

Pirate Bay's services "can be compared to making cars that can be driven faster than the speed limit."

I'm pretty sure that 98% of all cars go faster than the speed limit. How about another analogy.
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February 17, 2009 6:22:46 PM

But in the end, they are not hosting the copyright material, it is stored in all the little pirate systems around the world. All that site does is give you a torrent file that pulls the information off of another computer not related to that site. Whereas, youtube hosts materials directly on their servers that is copyrighted. Who would you go after, the guy with the little black book, or the man with his hand in the cookie jar(youtube)?
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February 17, 2009 6:23:25 PM

The analogy works, sort of. Most every auto maker sells cars that can be driven way too fast. I think Pirate Bay is like one auto maker selling a car that is goes way too fast and has shoty breaks and has a built in siphon hose and a tool kit to jimmying gas caps.
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February 17, 2009 6:27:27 PM

I think we can all agree pirate bays illegal uses far out weight any legal ones.

Instead of robbing someones house would it be legal to sell the keys to do so to everyone else?
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February 17, 2009 6:28:49 PM

yea, that is the point of the argument. Cars are made to go faster than they are supposed to be driven allowing the drivers to choose whether to follow the speed limit, or not, The site is hosted to provide content, the users can decide to download copyrighted material or not. Your statement just strengthens his argument, it doesn't devalue it like I believe you intended
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February 17, 2009 6:39:53 PM

HVDynamoyea, that is the point of the argument. Cars are made to go faster than they are supposed to be driven allowing the drivers to choose whether to follow the speed limit, or not, The site is hosted to provide content, the users can decide to download copyrighted material or not. Your statement just strengthens his argument, it doesn't devalue it like I believe you intended


Except, I have been browsing their website for an hour and haven't found a legal download yet.

If 99.9% of the torrent are illegal does that remaining .1% really legitimize their company?
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February 17, 2009 6:52:45 PM

GrimsI think we can all agree pirate bays illegal uses far out weight any legal ones. Instead of robbing someones house would it be legal to sell the keys to do so to everyone else?


I would be extremely suprised if you were the kind of person who thought it was a good idea to ban books that you particularly read because it has objectionable material in them. I seriously doubt that if someone was going to take away something that you currently have access to and use that you would sit bck and just take it silently. There are plenty of non copyright fair use activities that places such as pirate bay offer to people who are not infringing on anyone's copyrights. I do not think that the illegal uses outweigh the legal uses. All these companies basically want in reality is that every single time you hear their music, they can reach into your wallet and take money. Everytime you see a phrase that is similar to one in their song, on their show, they can reach into your pocket and take your money. Everytime someone adds an "i" in front of anything, they can take you to court. Got something to sell for fifty cents? Pay up bro, cause fifty cent is a person and he has that all to himself. People seem to think that any kind of thought or idea that someone puts out into public deserves to be reserved solely for the supposed originating person. I do not see it that way. When I can no longer use generic english words in a combination that is natural and normal because some dumbass put it to fucking music, something is wrong with the way things are happening. "i'll be back" to comment more on any follow ups to this post. "Jackass: the movie"
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February 17, 2009 7:04:17 PM

They are accused of "promoting other people's infringements of copyright laws,"
I am not a lawyer, but since when is promoting illegal?
If this court case was happening in the US, and the prosecutors win... Wouldn't that allow other lawyers to rely on that ruling to go after almost everything else? eg. Games, Car Dealers, Music Videos, etc.
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February 17, 2009 7:10:19 PM

I have to agree with pirate bays defense. I think it is valid. It is the end user that is responsible for their actions. I think a guilty conviction in this case could set a horrible precidnet for internet regulation. (Which I believe the Music and Movie Moguls want) If it is found that simple facilitating illegal downloading activity is an infringement, the next move will be to force ISP's to monitor and block user activity. I don't know about you. But I don't want my ISP (or anyone else) to spy on me.
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Anonymous
February 17, 2009 7:26:55 PM

A gun shop owner isn't a murderer if he legally sells a gun to someone and they use it to kill a person.
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Anonymous
February 17, 2009 7:35:20 PM

I would think that guns would be a good analogy here. Does this mean that if a person knew someone that was murdered using a handgun that the person can go after the manufacturer of the handgun that was used to commit the murder. I think I could make a safe bet that more handguns in use today are used by criminals for criminal activity than are used for self defense (not counting government agencies). The manufacturers enable criminals to murder just as TPB enables people to steal even though there are legitimate uses for both. Does that justify taking the manufacturer to court?
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February 17, 2009 7:38:43 PM

I don't know of any gun manufactures called "Murder Stick"
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February 17, 2009 7:39:53 PM

While TPB is not doing the specific infringement does anyone here think they are not responsible for the pirating they facilitate? Heck it is called the PIRATE bay, announcing their intentions right off the bat. They are doing an illegal act and right now skirting the grey areas of the law that can;t keep pace with all the people that can't be bothered to legally obtain software, movies, and music.

I hope they are found guilty, they have to shut down and are forced to pay all the 13.5 million, unfortunately something just as bad, if not worse will pop up in russia or the ukraine that can't be prosecuted.
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February 17, 2009 7:51:29 PM

nikhorvatA gun shop owner isn't a murderer if he legally sells a gun to someone and they use it to kill a person.


It is if the gunshop owner knows the person he's selling it to is going to commit a crime. It's called being an acessory.

I love bittorrent and the tech is a sound way to distribute content. Do we punish all for those that use the tech illegally? I say no. I think the pirate bay needs to respond to reports of illegal content and remove the link. If they keep up with that, they are fine.

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February 17, 2009 7:51:30 PM

They are makeing it posible for other people to comit a crime so they are an accesory to commiting the crime they are more quilty
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Anonymous
February 17, 2009 7:55:06 PM

So correct me if I'm wrong but the way they are prosecuting these cases wouldn't it technically be illegal to sell a book on how to make a bomb or sell a book that tells how to commit anything illegal? Since all the torrent is the directions to a place. Also to the people who are arguing that TPB is actually the people making the torrents they aren't. They are allowing people to upload torrents and their "trackers" track them.. They are simply the map to the golden treasure to so speak. If you start saying torrents are illegal wouldn't that be infringing on free speech since you could start saying anything deemed "illegal" that is shown in a "how to" book then the book would be illegal as well?
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February 17, 2009 8:04:44 PM

The Pirate Bay hasn't done anything illegal. Cars are legal, speeding isn't. Guns are legal, murdering isn't. Televisions are legal watching child pornography on them is not. File sharing is legal sharing illegal files are not.

It all falls on the end user, NOT the provider. If you propose shutting down Pirate Bay I guess you agree that Vizio is to blame for the perverts out there are Nissan is to blame for all the speeders.

You can't have selective justice. Then again this trial isn't going on here in America.
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February 17, 2009 8:09:48 PM

GrimsI think we can all agree pirate bays illegal uses far out weight any legal ones. Instead of robbing someones house would it be legal to sell the keys to do so to everyone else?


It doesn't matter if there isn't one single legal user. The Pirate Bay doesn't host content. Having a file sharing service isn't against the law.

And your scenario is completely off. TPB doesn't provide anything (keys). All the "keys" would be provided by owners of different houses. The Pirate Bay would just be a neighborhood association existing in the area where houses are being robbed and not doing anything about it.
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February 17, 2009 8:17:36 PM

Bottom line is they don't host any illegal downloads. They're a glorified link site. It would be like taking Google to court because it links to illegal sites as well.
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February 17, 2009 8:35:19 PM

Just put the word "torrent" along with the content you're searching for and if it exists somewhere, google will find it and give you the link to illegally do stuff with the link. They will be after google soon if not already, but being google is mostly a tool used for many other 'good' stuff (like cars/car manufacturers) and TPB is "the gun making company/gun seller" they need to past this first step with limited chances of backfire. If they went after google and lost, TBP and friends would use that as an example while the current situation is a win-win situation for the anti-illegal downloads party. Well, I hope they loose!
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February 17, 2009 8:35:48 PM

Um, under what they are sueing under... which I dont think is a crime... arent the media also commiting a crime? By promoting the case, or the pirating epidemic, arent the media also "promoting other people's infringement of copyrights"... dont know about you, but I have heard on the TV where to get the software before.
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February 17, 2009 8:41:19 PM

this is a slippery slope, next it will be illegal to think bad thoughts about the MPAA.
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February 17, 2009 8:50:43 PM

You tube, veoh,and most other online video sites holds millions of tv shows and movies on there site.
You can find ANY movie on those sites if you know how to look for them.
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February 17, 2009 8:56:40 PM

Yes you can find illegal Torrents from google, so I must agree with Maxor. If you sue PB then you must sue google and all other search engines that end up pointing to an illegal site... Good luck suing google!
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February 17, 2009 9:14:32 PM

Jerky_sanSo correct me if I'm wrong but the way they are prosecuting these cases wouldn't it technically be illegal to sell a book on how to make a bomb or sell a book that tells how to commit anything illegal? Since all the torrent is the directions to a place. Also to the people who are arguing that TPB is actually the people making the torrents they aren't. They are allowing people to upload torrents and their "trackers" track them.. They are simply the map to the golden treasure to so speak. If you start saying torrents are illegal wouldn't that be infringing on free speech since you could start saying anything deemed "illegal" that is shown in a "how to" book then the book would be illegal as well?


Actually, using his analogy, what the prosecutors are saying is: The Pirate Bay guys happen to own a wall where an advertisement of said books are posted by another party and they are guilty of distributing said illegal material.

Further more, the guys arguing about percentages of il/legal use are saying that the prosecutors are indeed right if the ratio of "illegal" advertisements is high enough against "legal" ones. I'm sure that said percentage threshold is clearly defined in their laws for that to even be brought up in court.

As for those bringing up search engines, they would be other walls on other buildings with neon signs pointing to the aforementioned offending wall.
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February 17, 2009 9:31:05 PM

GrimsExcept, I have been browsing their website for an hour and haven't found a legal download yet. If 99.9% of the torrent are illegal does that remaining .1% really legitimize their company?


I don't know how you managed that. The first file I found was legal.

I agree with several others. TPB is just as innocent as Google, which is to say, very. I'd love to see the MPAA take on Google.

And for god sakes...when has suing a cyber criminal EVER worked? There's no internet police. People can retaliate far faster than the MPAA can sue. I bet these lawyers don't even know what a torrent is.
The internet is the lawless West of today - and, by nature, it will always remain that way.
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February 18, 2009 12:49:22 AM

I don't know how the law works in Sweden, so I can't comment too much on the legality of their claims. But in America the prosecution would fail horribly. If their whole case is centered around the idea that they are "promoting infrigement of copyrighted material" would't they have to find people who admitted doing something illegal because TPB told them to? How does that work....

Anyway, the scary thing is that win or lose, a precedent has already been set. the MPAA and the RIAA will only use this case to reword another case that they have coming up.

The age of Internet Policing is coming. If we, the logically thinking masses, don't start putting sane people in goverment positions we wil see more of this.
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February 18, 2009 1:42:53 AM

rdawiseAnyway, the scary thing is that win or lose, a precedent has already been set. the MPAA and the RIAA will only use this case to reword another case that they have coming up.
The age of Internet Policing is coming. If we, the logically thinking masses, don't start putting sane people in goverment positions we wil see more of this.

If RIAA/MPAA wins in this case they are going to use it as precedent to go after Google/Youtube, but if they lose they will use it as justification to push laws and regulations like: "Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement".
Then we are going to read every day about cases like this one:
US Customs: Sketching an SUV makes you a copyright infringer

They know how to manipulate the system and if they need they just buy the politicians.
Time to Act on ACTA: Tell Congress to Open the Secret IP Pact
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February 18, 2009 1:02:46 PM

Lets put it like this. Say 90% of every person who bought a gun at a gun shop murdered someone.... would there not be public out cry to have them shut down?


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February 18, 2009 1:25:05 PM

taybThen again this trial isn't going on here in America.


Actually, in one way it is.

The RIAA are trying have been trying to enforce a nonexistent law in Sweden.
A law that the government since put into action, and they now have a legal ground to pursue suspected pirates in Sweden.

What's even more terrifying is that we now have a governmental detail monitoring data traffic coming through the borders.

So if you guys type something indecent, it has a very real chance getting flagged.

While it is hopefully not meant to cause paranoia, even divulging this information felt kind of... Forbidden. Controlled.

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February 18, 2009 2:42:59 PM

GrimsExcept, I have been browsing their website for an hour and haven't found a legal download yet. If 99.9% of the torrent are illegal does that remaining .1% really legitimize their company?

Search for the word Linux, and you will get hundreds and hundreds.
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Anonymous
February 19, 2009 12:16:11 AM

I just hope TPB wins and gets even stronger from all the attention it's been getting lately. I also hope the idiots in the music/movie/software industry realize that piracy will only become more common in the future unless they open their eyes and stop trying to rob us, normal folks of all the money we have, cause we aren't that dumb to pay for stuff that can be had for free. But I guess I'm hoping too much. Go TPB.
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February 19, 2009 2:31:00 AM

does making access to and not hosting actual material, enough to warrant infringement

in this clause then all sites that give knowledge about torrents and links/namesof to copyright infringed sites are at fault and legally need to be held in court

toms hardware, i held you contempt of court and suggest you remove any further comments on sites that hold dangerous and illegal activity! oh, and you owe me 15million for your freedom of speech
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Anonymous
April 16, 2009 10:06:26 PM

Why don't they take youtube to court? After all, they are hosting copyright infringement videos and yet nobody picks on them?
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