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.09u form Intel

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Kemche   03-12-2002 at 10:20:27 PM

Hi,

<A HREF="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/cn/20020312/tc_cn/intel_shrinks_chips_to_90_nanometers&cid=70" target="_new">Click</A>

Here's the link where they say intel has shrinked their process technology to .09u and yet AMD is still having some kind of problem with .13u. Intel will start their devlopment of .09u in summer of next year. Does anyone has any idea when AMD is planning to do similar changes.

KG

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mr_gobbledegook   03-12-2002 at 10:56:03 PM
- 0 +

Intels turning circle is way too big...when they show .09 micron now it basically means in 2 years time all their fabs will be converted to .09 micron.

The only reasons for a smaller process I can think of is:

1) Lower costs (smaller die size)
2) Lower heat output (higher clock speeds)
3) Core enhancements i.e more units, cache etc.

We already know the limit of Intels .13 micron process is around 3.5Ghz for the P4...any higher and they will have to switch to .09 micron (which is why precott will be .09micron).

AMD however is a slightly different postion...they have decided to go for SOI technology route therefore thier need for .09micron is less compared to Intel especially with the small die size of the Clawhammer.

Clawhammer will max out at PR +4000 before they need to move to .09 micron. Judging by the roadmaps AMD will introduce .09 mircon in 2H03 for thier <b>mobile</b> Clawhammer chip, no doubt these will be in limited quantities. I think we will see mass production .09 micron <b>desktop</b> clawhammer in Q403 the earliest.

Another factor is that AMD is fab partners with UMC and other Tawian Foundries so thier transition to .09 micron will also be dependent on thier partners.

On a personal note I think Intels Prescott Chip will be a serious threat to the Clawhammer. (I really hope AMD have started planning what enhancements they can make to Clawhammer in order to remain competitive).

<font color=purple>~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)</font color=purple>

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FatBurger   03-12-2002 at 11:11:15 PM
- 0 +

Quote :

We already know the limit of Intels .13 micron process is around 3.5Ghz for the P4...any higher and they will have to switch to .09 micron (which is why precott will be .09micron).



Then why does Intel already have liquid-cooled P4s running at 4GHz?

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Don't step in the sarcasm!

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mr_gobbledegook   03-12-2002 at 11:17:29 PM
- 0 +

Exactly....you can't achieve 4Ghz aircooled on .13micron process. You have to switch to .09micron in order to achieve this, which is why they had to have it liquid cooled.

<font color=purple>~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)</font color=purple>

Reply to mr_gobbledegook
FatBurger   03-13-2002 at 12:20:31 AM
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I disagree, it's too early to claim that's the ceiling. They can still refine the core and gain more room to grow, just like AMD did with the Palomino (not that they'd do it in exactly the same way, of course).

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Don't step in the sarcasm!

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Kemche   03-13-2002 at 12:32:38 AM
- 0 +

True, Just because they can only go up to certain frequency right now doesn't mean that's the limit. There are still some mfgr tricks they can do to increase the frequency without changing over to smaller process. No one predicted P3 could go up to 1Ghz, but it did. Took a while on .18u.

KG

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Kemche   03-13-2002 at 12:35:45 AM
- 0 +

This is how I see it...

Intel will rule till AMD come out with Hammer (if they execute it correctly).
AMD will take the crown with Hammer family but then....
Intel will take it back with Prescott....

I think we should get used to this. The lead will keep going back and forward. But currently AMD should be nervous since they need to get the Hammer out with new Arch, new process technology. Intel also should be nervous since Hammer is a real threat to P4.

KG

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zengeos   03-13-2002 at 02:07:38 AM
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Actually, according to AMD's roadmaps, the desktop Clawhammer will be moved to .09 during 2H03. It's not clear what the notebooks will be, though I suspect they will be .09 microm starting in 2Q03. Other than Sledgehammer, AMD should be transitioned to .09 across the board by end of 03...at least from the looks of their roadmap.

BTW What Intel showed was nowhere near production silicon from what I can see...at least not CPU silicon. there's at least a year, I think, before Intel begins their .09 transition, which, coincidentally, is around the same time AMD will begin their .09 transition. Intel began their .13 transition over a year ago. AMD started theirs around 6 months ago. It seems to me that AMD is outpacing Intel in the die shrink arena. At least they will if they begin their .09 transition the same time Intel does.

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!

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zengeos   03-13-2002 at 02:10:28 AM
- 0 +

Intel will be the performance leader until Thoroughbred, I think. Thoroughbred *should* give the Athlon enough legs to at minimum maintain performance parity with Intel. Currently it's about at parity with P4, but the 2.4ghz P4 will show clear performance leadership, I think. So, until AMD's PR 2200 or 2300 Thoroughbred chip comes out, P4 2.4ghz will wear the performance crown.

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!

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juin   03-13-2002 at 02:34:05 AM
- 0 +

There maybe even able to equal NW with 400 FSB.NW with 533FSB will be unbeatable until barton.(if barton have a higer FSB a big cache and others feature)

cheap, cheap. Think cheap, and you'll always be cheap.AMD version of semi conducteur industrie

Reply to juin
juin   03-13-2002 at 02:39:08 AM
- 0 +

We already know the limit of Intels .13 micron process is around 3.5Ghz for the P4...any higher and they will have to switch to .09 micron (which is why precott will be .09micron).

Intel will offer a high performance HSF with future NW that will help to increase speed.We are still in the 1 stepping of NW.

AMD however is a slightly different postion...they have decided to go for SOI technology route therefore thier need for .09micron is less compared to Intel especially with the small die size of the Clawhammer

Intel work on more advance version of SOI.

Another factor is that AMD is fab partners with UMC and other Tawian Foundries so thier transition to .09 micron will also be dependent on thier partners.

That true but it will increase production cost.


cheap, cheap. Think cheap, and you'll always be cheap.AMD version of semi conducteur industrie

Reply to juin
juin   03-13-2002 at 02:40:33 AM
- 0 +

Anandtech have a article on L2 cache memory at 0.09 micron.I suggest to all to see that.

cheap, cheap. Think cheap, and you'll always be cheap.AMD version of semi conducteur industrie

Reply to juin
zengeos   03-13-2002 at 02:47:53 AM
- 0 +

"Intel work on more advance version of SOI."

Yup, but it's at least 2 years out. Meanwhile, AMD, Motorola and IBM will all have working SOI and have those 2 years to refine and improve their existing in use technology.

So, Intel's *more advanced SOI* is moot.


When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!

Reply to zengeos
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