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WOW! something that AMDmeltdufus might post.

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March 15, 2002 2:28:09 AM

sad... but funny.
goes to show how dumb people can be with PC components.
<A HREF="http://www.saunalahti.fi/~mnc/kadetys.html" target="_new">http://www.saunalahti.fi/~mnc/kadetys.html&lt;/A>

I love helping people in Toms Forums... It reinforces my intellectual superiority! :smile:

More about : wow amdmeltdufus post

March 15, 2002 2:48:24 AM

I agree these are all fine examples of what not to do. However, most companies do not have time to thoroughly analyze what went wrong with a component someone returns. This does end up costing the retailers and AMD money in the end.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
March 15, 2002 3:41:42 AM

Damn! Did you see the burned fingerprint on that Athlon!! Sweet!

Blah, Blah Blahh, Blahh, blahh blah blahh, blah blah.
Related resources
March 15, 2002 6:31:59 AM

Ray I deeply appreciate not making an Fud like comments on this one. Clearly these people were morons. It could have just as easily been Intel systems in those pics.

PS: Saw that web page yesterday. Funny stuff. Amazing what some folks do to their comps

Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.
March 15, 2002 9:26:04 AM

I think you need to actually look at the link before posting a comment like that. There are pictures of components from both AMD and INTEL as well as motherboards, video cards, memory, etc.

These people were clearly morons and no manufacturer should be responsable for their mistakes.

<font color=red>If you were to have sex with your clone would that be considered incest or masturbation?</font color=red>
March 15, 2002 10:24:22 AM

true... some complete dill-weed SANDPAPERED a celleron by the looks of it.

and arctic silver oozing down the side of the socket will cauze any cpu to shortout. :) 

I love helping people in Toms Forums... It reinforces my intellectual superiority! :smile:
March 15, 2002 11:50:44 AM

::sighs:: for the last time, as2 is not electrically conductive!

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
March 15, 2002 4:33:21 PM

silver isn't elctrically conductive? i don't know my metals but i don't think it is either. the problem is though is that it's overheating the core. The heat is being transfered back into the core instead of in the heatsink. Probably burned up and stopped working.

When you put on grease, use a q-tip and put a little dab on the q-tip and put very little on the core and thats it. you want the heat to transfer to the heatsink not back to the core.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
March 15, 2002 4:36:52 PM

"::sighs:: for the last time, as2 is not electrically conductive!"

matisaro, look:

<b>ARTIC SILVER 2 & 3</b>
"Negligible electrical conductivity. Arctic Silver II was formulated to conduct heat, not electricity. It is only electrically conductive in a thin layer under extreme compression.

(While much safer than electrically conductive silver and copper greases, Arctic Silver II should be kept away from electrical traces, pins, and leads. The compound is slightly capacitive and could potentially cause problems if it bridged two close-proximity electrical paths.)"

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by AmdMELTDOWN on 03/15/02 01:40 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
March 15, 2002 5:20:31 PM

Heh heh. Assuming that it was even Arctic Silver. It could have been a more electrically-conductive thermal grease.

That was a hillarious site though. If only all tech shops kept digital cameras on hand... :) 

<pre>If you let others think for you, you're the
only one to blame when things go wrong.</pre><p>
March 15, 2002 5:30:43 PM

Thanks for the link proving my statement meltdown.

Capacitive effects are not the same as conductive.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
March 15, 2002 5:35:00 PM

Actually, everything can conduct electricity. Some materials are better at slowing the flow of electrons than others. Put a large enough voltage difference across anything and find out!!
March 15, 2002 5:45:44 PM

<b>.9r=1</b>

<font color=red>If you were to have sex with your clone would that be considered incest or masturbation?</font color=red>
March 15, 2002 5:47:49 PM

these are good examples of mods done by chimps.. that's all :smile:

lagger

<b><font color=blue>Checking under my North<font color=red> AND</font color=red> South bridges for <font color=green>Trolls</font color=green></font color=blue>
March 15, 2002 5:50:41 PM

i got a help desk call one time about a corrupt hard drive, i went over to the computer, she had arranged about 30 refridgerator magnets on the side of the case, not the flimsy light weight ones, the kind with the big fat round magnets. i couldnt believe my eyes, i got a pic somewhere.

i went to the tomshardware forums and all i got was this lousy signature.
March 15, 2002 5:54:04 PM

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Don't step in the sarcasm!
March 15, 2002 8:09:37 PM

WTF !?!

<font color=purple>~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)</font color=purple>
March 15, 2002 8:47:38 PM

You don't want to know :frown:

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Don't step in the sarcasm!
March 15, 2002 10:55:35 PM

Quote:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think one of his pictures got out into the public eye :smile:
just kidding guys

"Why can't I be the man? I mean, I DO have harmony balls..." -epoth
March 15, 2002 11:00:36 PM

Look at who I was replying to, and you'll figure it out (maybe).

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Don't step in the sarcasm!
March 16, 2002 12:03:02 AM

Aight, someone explain to me how you can extend and ignore the word wrap!
And please don't do this again!

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
March 16, 2002 12:22:39 AM

You "extend and ignore" word wrap by typing in a very, very long word that the "word wrap" algorithm doesn't bother to break (i.e. the word "NOOOOO....OOOO!!!!!")

<i>If a server crashes in a server farm and no one pings it, does it still cost four figures to fix?
March 16, 2002 12:25:04 AM

Wow, can't beleive it fell right under my nose!
Sometimes the easiest answers are the toughest for the smart ones.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
March 16, 2002 6:48:46 PM

LOL

You screwed up the whole post! LOL

<font color=red>If you were to have sex with your clone would that be considered incest or masturbation?</font color=red>
March 17, 2002 10:23:54 AM

NO - you do not want to put on ASII or any thermal paste with a q-tip!!!!!

Last I looked, q-tips were basically compressed cotton wool.

I think life will be a lot longer if you use something that isn't going to leave lint on the die and prevent thermal contact.

Generally apply a rice grain sized amount to the core and spread with the edge of a credit-card or equivalent (physically, not financially equivalent) Spreading with a q-tip as you suggest is going to leave you possibly with one of the worst possible applications you could imagine.

Remember, we want a nice, smooth, <b>even</b>, thin application.



-* <font color=red> !! S O L D !! </font color=red> *-
To the gentleman in the pink Tutu
March 17, 2002 1:36:19 PM

there are dumb asses everywhere. our store seldom has the time to check if stuff is even broken, never mind how. this can come in handy as i regulary take stuff back when no longer in stock and get a better version for the same price. paid £35.00 for a 32M Vanta a good while ago. it has been a 2MX, a 32M Geforce11GTS and now a 64M Geforce11 pro. it will soon be a geforce3

Although it has a lot of good ideas, beer doesn't know anything about computers!!!
March 17, 2002 5:14:18 PM

?

i didn't get any cotton on my chip if that is your concern ... how else do you put on a small layer ... and jsyk i got that idea form someone else on this forum ... worked for me ...

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
March 17, 2002 6:41:49 PM

Use a credit card or one of those supermarket keychain cards.

<font color=red>If you were to have sex with your clone would that be considered incest or masturbation?</font color=red>
March 17, 2002 9:06:35 PM

well... Artic Silver say to use a credit card edge or a razor blade edge. Basically anything flat. You cannot spread a flat film of paste using a q-tip. Also, you most likely cannot see if you deposited any fibers or contaminants from the q-tip, but they might affect thermal transfer.

-* <font color=red> !! S O L D !! </font color=red> *-
To the gentleman in the pink Tutu
March 18, 2002 5:16:22 PM

who's the idiot that ruined this thread? and who uses q-tips to apply AS? that's beyond dumb.

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
March 18, 2002 6:52:53 PM

It doesn't matter, it shows how far even threads about you can become lost, as what you are.
Even threads about you are so uninteresting and useless, that we don't bother discussing them anymore... see how your name marks everything that is useless now?

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
March 18, 2002 7:16:16 PM

Quote:
It doesn't matter, it shows how far even threads about you can become lost, as what you are.

well, it didn't take long to flush out the culprit did it?

Quote:
Even threads about you are so uninteresting and useless, that we don't bother discussing them anymore... see how your name marks everything that is useless now?"

what threads about me? do you ppl dream about me also?

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
March 19, 2002 1:17:48 PM

and those little cotton particals has how much of a significance?

for my cpu on full load it's at 40C, i have a 3 year old aluminum globalwin heatsink. .. i don't think the cotton does anything noticably harmful.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
March 19, 2002 2:01:25 PM

If you don't care about the application and the use, why pay the premium for AS? I'm telling you what AS say themselves, clean using a lint free cloth, apply with a razor blade or credit card. According to them, even finger grease is going to have some effect on the transfer.

I'm not going to argue the physics of thermal conductivity with you, but try to see that taking time to clean surfaces is useless if you use something that deposits lint. Also, how flat and thin can your application look? Chances are you have troughs. This will effect the transfer of heat.

-* <font color=red> !! S O L D !! </font color=red> *-
To the gentleman in the pink Tutu
March 19, 2002 4:07:16 PM

That's a lot of Os. I agree with the centimentality though. I thought this topic was long when I left months ago. Let us hope that dhlucke doesn't bring it back to life.

<b>.9r!=1</b>
.9r=.9r
1=1
.9r <b>+ .0r1</b> = 1
No more, no less.

<pre>Join PETT.(People for Equal Treatment of Trolls)
Trolls:Keeping bridges clean 'n safe.</pre><p>
March 19, 2002 4:43:58 PM

Quote:
.9r + .0r1 = 1
No more, no less.


No it dosent, .9r+.1r=1+

You have to add from right to left, the difference between .999(non repeating) and 1 is .001 not .111.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
March 19, 2002 5:12:33 PM

Let me reiterate that I said <b>+ .0r1</b>, <i>not + .1r</i>. Which means that I said <b>+ .000...1</b>, <i>not + .111...1</i>.

<pre>Join PETT.(People for Equal Treatment of Trolls)
Trolls:Keeping bridges clean 'n safe.</pre><p>
March 19, 2002 5:55:37 PM

So then .0r1 = 0, according to your equation, right?

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Don't step in the sarcasm!
March 19, 2002 6:08:57 PM

Huh? No. :-p Silly. Let's not get this whole mess started again.

.0r1 = .0r1

Only to someone that sees .9r as being equal to 1 would see .0r1 as being equal to 0, which I don't.

And technically it would actually be .0(r-1)1 instead of .0r1 because the equation would be 0.9r + 0.0(r-1)1 = 1, but that looks even messier and I figured the gist of my point was getting across.

My stance is, if you can draw the 9s out infinitely, then you can just as easily draw the 0s out one less infinitely and then plop a one down after them.

<pre>Join PETT.(People for Equal Treatment of Trolls)
Trolls:Keeping bridges clean 'n safe.</pre><p>
March 19, 2002 6:17:31 PM

Quote:
Only to someone that sees .9r as being equal to 1 would see .0r1 as being equal to 0, which I don't.

Wait, so you're on my side of the debate? I thought you were one of the ones arguing that .9r=1? I'm confused :eek: 

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Don't step in the sarcasm!
March 20, 2002 5:28:09 PM

Quote:
My stance is, if you can draw the 9s out infinitely, then you can just as easily draw the 0s out one less infinitely and then plop a one down after them.



I dont know, I dont think its possible to have infinate 0's and then a 1, because the infinate 0's have no end, so where would you put the 1.


But I did misread your statement, didnt see the 0r1, thought it was 0.1r, my bad.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
March 20, 2002 5:33:08 PM

I'd have to agree. "Infinity minus one" wouldn't work very well.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Don't step in the sarcasm!
March 20, 2002 6:13:35 PM

1 = 9/9 = 9(1/9) = 9*.1r = .9r

just a random thought.

MStakem


Also,
let x = .9r this implies 10x-x = 9.9r - .9r implies 9x = 9 implies x =1 therefore .9r = 1

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by MStakem on 03/20/02 04:03 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
March 20, 2002 6:43:32 PM

I'm on the .9r doesn't equal 1 side. Always have been, always will be. (At least as long as some agent of Chaos doesn't screw up our universe and cause simple mathematics to become pointless.) Neither the limitations of calculative hardware, nor some people's inability to fathom a working model for expressing infinity impress me as explanations for how 0.9r can ever equal 1.

To me, working with infinity is just like working with the square root of -1. Both are theoretical values which can be expressed in terms relational to themselves, but have no understandable value outside of that relation.

Such as 2 x infinity is twice the theoretical value of infinity. Such as imaginary number x 2 is twice the theoretical value of the imaginary number. It is incredibly simple to portray these relations using mathematics by substituting a variable for the value of infinity or the value of the square root of -1. However, as most humans cannot even fathom just what infinity is, or what the square root of -1 is, to those people these relations are meaningless because the numbers don't exist in reality anyway. At least in their opinion.

To those of us who can comprehend this relational value however, it opens up a whole world of theoretical mathematics which are in fact a part of basic trigonometry and calculus.

Working with numbers like infinity, or like the square root of -1 is just all a matter of changing your perspective.

To put this relational system into terms that most Americans can use to help their minds grasp how it works:
Say we have 'God'. 'God' has infinite power. Now, say 'God' has a son who is half as powerful as 'God'. From our non-infinite perspective, half of infinity is still an infinite value, so son and 'God' are equal. However, from the son's perspective, while his power is infinite, he will never be as powerful as 'God'. From 'God''s perspectve, 'God' will always be twice as powerful as his son.

But in case the infinity - 1 part is hard for some people to relate to, you can look at it as: 0.9r9 + 0.0r1 = 1. Now there is no infinity minus 1 involved. The two infinities relate to each other equally.

And to me, putting a 1 after an infinite number of 0s works just as well as putting a 9 after an infinite number of 9s. I mean if you want to look at it, the next number in 9r is always 9, so you are putting the 9 after an infinite number of 9s anyway, aren't you? So putting a 1 after an infinite number of 0s is no harder to fathom if you can stretch your mind open that far.

And if you can't stretch your mind far enough to put a 9 after an infinite number of 9s, then how can you ever say that 0.9r can equal one anyway? Because in your world, the repetitions of 9s will never end, so that repetition can never actually reach a total value of 1.

Either way, 0.9r never equals 1.

<font color=red><pre>(The loosely expressed views of 'God' are not the
views of me, who in actuality has a very messed-up view of
deities and demigods.)</pre><p></font color=red>

<pre>Join PETT.(People for Equal Treatment of Trolls)
Trolls:Keeping bridges clean 'n safe.</pre><p>
March 20, 2002 7:01:31 PM

Quote:
1 = 9/9 = 9(1/9) = 9*.1r = .9r

just a random thought.

I doubt that it was really all that random. ;) 

However, it has one inherant flaw. 1/9 does not actually equal 0.9r. You see, the whole concept of an infinitely repeating of 9s depends upon one thing: That infinity is calculatable. The day that you can give me the numeric value of infinity is the day that you can prove 1/9 = 0.9r. Until that day, 1/9 is <i>approximate</i> to 0.9r.

<pre>Join PETT.(People for Equal Treatment of Trolls)
Trolls:Keeping bridges clean 'n safe.</pre><p>
March 20, 2002 7:07:43 PM

isn't this similair to calculating horizontal asymtotes(sp?)

I mean .9r equalling 1 seems somewhat similair to calculating the horizontal asym of (thinking for a function to fit this...)

x^(-.5)+1 only this would be from above 1 but I think the situation is analogous. rejecting this would be like reject calculus I would think.

ps you're right it wasn't random in the least :)  also I assume the 1/9 not equaling .9r was a typo?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by MStakem on 03/20/02 04:11 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
March 20, 2002 7:16:51 PM

Good theory silver, but math dosent agree.
.9r=1 according to all mathmaticians, there are several equasions which prove this, which were listed in the .9r=1 thread in polls.

So while I can understand the idea as to why .9r does not equal one, (and at one time believed it didnt) it in fact does, and the problem lies in the fact that infinity is instand, infite 9's does not mean, you keep adding 9s, it means that there is an infinate string of 9's with no end, and no point where you can say, well its still .0*01 smaller than 1.




"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
March 20, 2002 7:38:30 PM

Quote:
1/9 does not actually equal 0.9r

Assuming you actually mean 0.1r: It sure does.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
March 20, 2002 7:59:19 PM

Quote:
It sure does.

Nope. Sorry. It sure doesn't. 1/9 is approximate to 0.9r. It doesn't actually equal 0.9r. So long as infinity is required to calculate any equation, it can only yield approximate results as infinity is itself incalculable. And the entire concept of any repeating number depends upon infinity. Therefore, any infinitely expressable number, repeating (such as 0.9r) or non-repeating (such as Pi), can only be used as an approximation.

Go ahead and run that past any college professor. If they are worth their pay, they will back it up. Any teacher who tells you opposite probably failed math at some time and certainly shouldn't be trusted as capable of teaching higher mathematics.

I know it is a bold statement, but I stand firm by it.

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