two IDE PCI contoller cards in one PC?

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment (More info?)

I have a use for (4) 133MB/s IDE channels in my Dell
(which runs WinXP Pro). I'm now using a single SIIG
PCI controller card, but SIIG says that they don't know
if my Dell Dimension BIOS or their drivers would be
able to differentiate between two identical PCI cards.

Has anyone here used two identical IDE PCI cards in
the same PC? How about two different brands of IDE
PCI cards in the same PC?

*TimDaniels*
10 answers Last reply
More about contoller cards
  1. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    Tim, good question! I would say the DELL BIOS would recognize that
    there were two IDE Controller cards including XP. Drive letters from
    A-Z have been around a long time also. Will you still be booting from
    the on-board Controller? I would think the Card closest to the power
    supply would be recognized first, then any additional ones next.

    Oh, you might want to consider better cooling if you haven't already
    thought of it.

    bigsley

    On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:53:38 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
    <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:

    >I have a use for (4) 133MB/s IDE channels in my Dell
    >(which runs WinXP Pro). I'm now using a single SIIG
    >PCI controller card, but SIIG says that they don't know
    >if my Dell Dimension BIOS or their drivers would be
    >able to differentiate between two identical PCI cards.
    >
    >Has anyone here used two identical IDE PCI cards in
    >the same PC? How about two different brands of IDE
    >PCI cards in the same PC?
    >
    >*TimDaniels*
  2. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment (More info?)

    "Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
    news:7eednYoKifRxJOncRVn-2w@comcast.com...
    > I have a use for (4) 133MB/s IDE channels in my Dell
    > (which runs WinXP Pro). I'm now using a single SIIG
    > PCI controller card, but SIIG says that they don't know
    > if my Dell Dimension BIOS or their drivers would be
    > able to differentiate between two identical PCI cards.
    >
    > Has anyone here used two identical IDE PCI cards in
    > the same PC? How about two different brands of IDE
    > PCI cards in the same PC?
    >
    > *TimDaniels*

    Well, unless the BIOS actually interferes, you should be able to
    plug in as many cards as you want, all identical, and they should
    work fine. That's because PCI 'rolls' the address as part of the
    physical socket, and rotates the interrupt line.

    As long as the BIOS stays out of the way of what it doesn't know
    about, WIN98 and later, with appropriate drivers, should find
    the card, and install more drives than you should ever need.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment (More info?)

    "Mike Yetsko" wrote:
    >
    > "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
    >> I have a use for (4) 133MB/s IDE channels in my Dell
    >> (which runs WinXP Pro). I'm now using a single SIIG
    >> PCI controller card, but SIIG says that they don't know
    >> if my Dell Dimension BIOS or their drivers would be
    >> able to differentiate between two identical PCI cards.
    >>
    >> Has anyone here used two identical IDE PCI cards in
    >> the same PC? How about two different brands of IDE
    >> PCI cards in the same PC?
    >
    > Well, unless the BIOS actually interferes, you should be
    > able to plug in as many cards as you want, all identical,
    > and they should work fine. That's because PCI 'rolls' the
    > address as part of the physical socket, and rotates the
    > interrupt line.
    >
    > As long as the BIOS stays out of the way of what it doesn't
    > know about, WIN98 and later, with appropriate drivers,
    > should find the card, and install more drives than you
    > should ever need.


    That sounds encouraging. Do you know if the same
    currently-installed driver could handle both PCI cards,
    or would another driver have to be installed for the 2nd
    card?

    *TimDaniels*
  4. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    <anonymous> wrote:
    >"Timothy Daniels" wrote:
    >>I have a use for (4) 133MB/s IDE channels in my Dell
    >>(which runs WinXP Pro). I'm now using a single SIIG
    >>PCI controller card, but SIIG says that they don't know
    >>if my Dell Dimension BIOS or their drivers would be
    >>able to differentiate between two identical PCI cards.
    >>
    >>Has anyone here used two identical IDE PCI cards in
    >>the same PC? How about two different brands of IDE
    >>PCI cards in the same PC?
    >
    > [....] I would say the DELL BIOS would recognize that
    > there were two IDE Controller cards including XP.
    > Drive letters from A-Z have been around a long time
    > also. Will you still be booting from the on-board
    > Controller? I would think the Card closest to the power
    > supply would be recognized first, then any additional
    > ones next.
    > Oh, you might want to consider better cooling if you
    > haven't already thought of it.


    The motherboard-mounted IDE controller would
    only be used for ATAPI devices. The 2 PCI IDE
    controllers would be used for 4 hard drives - one
    HD per channel, only two HDs running at any one
    time. One of the HDs will be in a removable tray
    used for back-ups. I have 3 removable trays, each
    for archiving full system clones of each of 3 internal
    HDs. During normal use, only 1 or 2 of the internal
    HDs would be powered up. Thus, since the remov-
    able tray provides its own cooling fan (which is
    actually effective), I wouldn't need added cooling.


    I know, I know.... I could run the 4 hard drives off
    the one controller card. But I'm getting *really* tired
    of the physical procedure to open up my computer
    case to do all the shuffling around of HD connectors
    when I isolate the cloned system for its 1st boot up -
    which must be done in isolation. I've heard about
    a cute boot manager called XOSL which I could use
    to "hide" the other partitions when doing that 1st
    boot-up, but before I add the complexity of another
    partition on each HD to hold the boot manager, I'd
    like to try just turn off the power to the other HDs via
    toggle switches during that 1st boot-up of the cloned
    system. (Of course, that switching would be done
    when the entire machine was powered down.) But
    turning off the power to a HD at the end position on
    a dual IDE cable renders the HD at the middle
    position unbootable, so.... I need one IDE channel
    per HD, and thus 2 controllers to provide the 4 IDE
    channels.

    *TimDaniels*
  5. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    "Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
    > I need one IDE channel
    > per HD, and thus 2 controllers to provide the 4 IDE
    > channels.

    Fair enough, and it ought to work, but you may find yourself unable to
    tell the difference between disks, especially if some of them are
    identical, or have the same number of logical blocks. Depending on
    which one boots, the status of the others could change, which is
    guaranteed to cause you nightmares.

    Why not put them all in removable carriers and physically remove the
    ones you want to be "powered down"? You can get decent carriers for
    as low as $7....
  6. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    <William P.N. Smith> wrote:
    > "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
    >> I need one IDE channel per HD, and thus
    >> 2 controllers to provide the 4 IDE channels.
    >
    > Fair enough, and it ought to work, but you may
    > find yourself unable to tell the difference between
    > disks, especially if some of them are identical,
    > or have the same number of logical blocks.
    > Depending on which one boots, the status of the
    > others could change, which is guaranteed to
    > cause you nightmares.


    The internal HDs, indeed, are identical, and
    they can't be distinguished in the BIOS' display
    of the boot sequence. But I have
    1) an empty folder on each OS' desktop whose
    name identifies the version of the OS,
    2) the arrangement of names in the boot.ini file
    of each OS properly identifies the OS of each
    internal HD (and the locations of the other OSes
    in the event that it is called upon to display a
    boot menu by the boot manager), and
    3) I use Disk Management to tell me what the
    names are of all the "Local Disks" that correspond
    to each partition.

    Of course, the booted OS always calls its root "C:",
    and the others get assigned other names, but it's not
    difficult to identify what is what with the help of Disk
    Management.


    > Why not put them all in removable carriers and
    > physically remove the ones you want to be
    > "powered down"? You can get decent carriers
    > for as low as $7....


    My mid-tower PC has only two 5½ inch bays, and
    they're occupied by the optical drive and the
    removable ATA drive. If I had more bays, I think I
    would have gone with more trays as you suggest.
    BTW, I use the aluminum Kingwin trays with the
    radial fan built into the bottom of the carrier, and
    the fan really does cool the drive. (Extra carriers
    cost between $11 and $15.) To keep space free
    for ventilation, I use "round" IDE cables. Removable
    ATA hard drives are a real convenience, and I'm
    amazed that more people don't use them instead
    of shelling out centibucks for the USB 2 and FireWire
    external drives. Heck, to use those, I'd have to get
    a PCI USB 2/Firewire controller card as well! :-)

    *TimDaniels*
  7. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment (More info?)

    If the cards are the same manufacturer and model, one copy of the required
    driver will suffice. Windows XP is smart enough to create instances of data
    tied to each channel and each device, executing the same driver code.

    Same with network cards, as in a firewall or internal network controller type of
    computer. Throw in several network cards, all same manufacturer and model, and
    there is only one driver required.

    .... Ben Myers

    On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:24:55 -0700, "Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com>
    wrote:

    >"Mike Yetsko" wrote:
    >>
    >> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
    >>> I have a use for (4) 133MB/s IDE channels in my Dell
    >>> (which runs WinXP Pro). I'm now using a single SIIG
    >>> PCI controller card, but SIIG says that they don't know
    >>> if my Dell Dimension BIOS or their drivers would be
    >>> able to differentiate between two identical PCI cards.
    >>>
    >>> Has anyone here used two identical IDE PCI cards in
    >>> the same PC? How about two different brands of IDE
    >>> PCI cards in the same PC?
    >>
    >> Well, unless the BIOS actually interferes, you should be
    >> able to plug in as many cards as you want, all identical,
    >> and they should work fine. That's because PCI 'rolls' the
    >> address as part of the physical socket, and rotates the
    >> interrupt line.
    >>
    >> As long as the BIOS stays out of the way of what it doesn't
    >> know about, WIN98 and later, with appropriate drivers,
    >> should find the card, and install more drives than you
    >> should ever need.
    >
    >
    > That sounds encouraging. Do you know if the same
    > currently-installed driver could handle both PCI cards,
    > or would another driver have to be installed for the 2nd
    > card?
    >
    >*TimDaniels*
    >
    >
    >
  8. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment (More info?)

    Thanks, Ben. I guess I can now spring for another
    SIIG card (which I trust, since it has worked for me
    so far for 1½ years).

    *TimDaniels*

    (Ben Myers) wrote:
    >
    > If the cards are the same manufacturer and model,
    > one copy of the required driver will suffice. Windows XP
    > is smart enough to create instances of data tied to each
    > channel and each device, executing the same driver code.
    >
    > Same with network cards, as in a firewall or internal
    > network controller type of computer. Throw in several
    > network cards, all same manufacturer and model, and
    > there is only one driver required.
    >
    >"Timothy Daniels" wrote:
    >
    >> That sounds encouraging. Do you know if the same
    >> currently-installed driver could handle both PCI cards,
    >> or would another driver have to be installed for the 2nd
    >> card?
    >>
    >>"Mike Yetsko" wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Well, unless the BIOS actually interferes, you should be
    >>> able to plug in as many cards as you want, all identical,
    >>> and they should work fine. That's because PCI 'rolls' the
    >>> address as part of the physical socket, and rotates the
    >>> interrupt line.
    >>>
    >>> As long as the BIOS stays out of the way of what it doesn't
    >>> know about, WIN98 and later, with appropriate drivers,
    >>> should find the card, and install more drives than you
    >>> should ever need.
    >>>
    >>> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I have a use for (4) 133MB/s IDE channels in my Dell
    >>>> (which runs WinXP Pro). I'm now using a single SIIG
    >>>> PCI controller card, but SIIG says that they don't know
    >>>> if my Dell Dimension BIOS or their drivers would be
    >>>> able to differentiate between two identical PCI cards.
    >>>>
    >>>> Has anyone here used two identical IDE PCI cards in
    >>>> the same PC? How about two different brands of IDE
    >>>> PCI cards in the same PC?
  9. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment (More info?)

    One problem that you could possibly run into is one that we had with some
    Promise cards (two different models) - they did not seem to want to share
    IRQs, and there were not enough to go around. Ways around this may be to move
    cards around to other PCI slots, or disable unused devices (the PS/2 mouse
    port if you are using an USB mouse, for example).

    In article <0vidnTc7R4nWD-jcRVn-3g@comcast.com>, "Timothy Daniels"
    <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
    |Thanks, Ben. I guess I can now spring for another
    |SIIG card (which I trust, since it has worked for me
    |so far for 1½ years).
    |
    |*TimDaniels*
    |
    |(Ben Myers) wrote:
    |>
    |> If the cards are the same manufacturer and model,
    |> one copy of the required driver will suffice. Windows XP
    |> is smart enough to create instances of data tied to each
    |> channel and each device, executing the same driver code.
    |>
    |> Same with network cards, as in a firewall or internal
    |> network controller type of computer. Throw in several
    |> network cards, all same manufacturer and model, and
    |> there is only one driver required.
    |>
    |>"Timothy Daniels" wrote:
    |>
    |>> That sounds encouraging. Do you know if the same
    |>> currently-installed driver could handle both PCI cards,
    |>> or would another driver have to be installed for the 2nd
    |>> card?
    |>>
    |>>"Mike Yetsko" wrote:
    |>>>
    |>>> Well, unless the BIOS actually interferes, you should be
    |>>> able to plug in as many cards as you want, all identical,
    |>>> and they should work fine. That's because PCI 'rolls' the
    |>>> address as part of the physical socket, and rotates the
    |>>> interrupt line.
    |>>>
    |>>> As long as the BIOS stays out of the way of what it doesn't
    |>>> know about, WIN98 and later, with appropriate drivers,
    |>>> should find the card, and install more drives than you
    |>>> should ever need.
    |>>>
    |>>> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
    |>>>
    |>>>> I have a use for (4) 133MB/s IDE channels in my Dell
    |>>>> (which runs WinXP Pro). I'm now using a single SIIG
    |>>>> PCI controller card, but SIIG says that they don't know
    |>>>> if my Dell Dimension BIOS or their drivers would be
    |>>>> able to differentiate between two identical PCI cards.
    |>>>>
    |>>>> Has anyone here used two identical IDE PCI cards in
    |>>>> the same PC? How about two different brands of IDE
    |>>>> PCI cards in the same PC?
    |
    |
  10. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment (More info?)

    <nospam.please@ualberta.ca> wrote in message
    news:cl48tj$10p$1@tabloid.srv.ualberta.ca...
    > One problem that you could possibly run into is one that we had with some
    > Promise cards (two different models) - they did not seem to want to share
    > IRQs, and there were not enough to go around. Ways around this may be to
    move
    > cards around to other PCI slots, or disable unused devices (the PS/2 mouse
    > port if you are using an USB mouse, for example).

    Uh, that wasn't the problem. PCI cards don't share interrupts. They have
    PCI BUS INTERRUPTS. And the PCI bus supports 4 of them. Each card
    generally supports PCI_INTA, with some also supporting PCI_INTB. Som
    even PCI_INTC and PCI_INTD.

    However, in the first slot the Card A is connected to INTA on the bus, B to
    B, and so on. In the second slot, the Card A is connected to bus B, then
    B to C, and so on. Third slot is A to C, B to D, C to A, etc.

    Since by normal convention, the PCI cards will try to use INTA for it's main
    interrupt, this 'shares the load' of PCI devices on the interrupt bus
    structure.

    THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN IRQ5 for example on a PCI
    device. Now, the HOST to PCI bridge device may in fact generate
    a 'conventional' IRQ, but that is another story.

    ALL PCI INTERRUPTS ARE SHAREABLE BY DEFINITION AND
    DESIGN!

    There really is no such thing any more as 'not enough interrupts to go
    around'. If you think that's your problem, you either have a brain dead
    design or a defective driver. But it SURE ain't the interrupts.
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