Tom's Hardware: Topic P4 1.6A about overclocking
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Hey i was surfing around, and notice that you guys think 1.6A would be a good price considering that it can do overclocking well. The P4 1.6A different from the old 1.6 is that it based on Norwood chip or whatever right? How hard is it to overclock this chip? I'm planning to build a new system. I was planning to go with Athlon XP 1600+, but now i'm a little interested in P4 1.6A. Is that better? What would be a good motherboard under good price for this cpu with overlocking options? Thanks in advance!
| Quote : Hey i was surfing around, and notice that you guys think 1.6A would be a good price considering that it can do overclocking well. The P4 1.6A different from the old 1.6 is that it based on Norwood chip or whatever right? How hard is it to overclock this chip? I'm planning to build a new system. I was planning to go with Athlon XP 1600+, but now i'm a little interested in P4 1.6A. Is that better? What would be a good motherboard under good price for this cpu with overlocking options? Thanks in advance! |
The 1.6A p4 is the northwood, it can hit 2.4ghz on the overclock, but you should purchase specific hardware for it.(raystonn and others can give you ram/mobo specs).
If you do not want to overclock, then the 1600+ is cheaper and faster, but if you decide to overclock, for now the 1.6a is the best bet.
In a month or two however the tbred will be released, which will be the .13 micton axp, and there will be an 1800+ model which should hit around 2300mhz or more, and it should be priced the same as the 1.6a, and a 2.3ghz tbred/axp would be quite a performer.
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
I recommend the following:
Pentium 4 1.6A
Abit TH7II-RAID
Two double-sided 256MB PC800 Samsung RDRAM modules
This set of hardware should allow you to reach 2.4GHz without much trouble. Also make sure you get a decent power supply.
-Raystonn
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
Yes, I'd go with a P4 1.6A plus either an Abit TH7-II and double sided Samsung RDRAM or an ABit BD7 with KingMax or Corsair DD333.
AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
is buying a P4 1.6A a advantage for me later? Right now, i don't know much about overclocking. But later if i want to overclock, would the P4 would be much better option?
Ps. Is the motherboard running intel chip more stable than the VIA chipset?
actaully its very easy , u just have to have a good motherboard for it ( i.e. ASUS ) , and just up the Front-side-bus(FSB) in the bios.
Any mystery devised by mortal mind can be solved therewith - Holmes
| Quote : is buying a P4 1.6A a advantage for me later? Right now, i don't know much about overclocking. But later if i want to overclock, would the P4 would be much better option? |
If you plan on overclocking, the Pentium 4 1.6A is the best option. The socket and motherboards should last quite a while, allowing you to upgrade in the future. AMD's currently offerings will not be upgradable to the Hammer at the end of the year. It will require you to buy a new motherboard.
| Quote : Ps. Is the motherboard running intel chip more stable than the VIA chipset? |
Yes, do not get a motherboard with a VIA chipset. They have a track record of problems.
-Raystonn
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
| Quote : is buying a P4 1.6A a advantage for me later? Right now, i don't know much about overclocking. But later if i want to overclock, would the P4 would be much better option? |
If you do NOT overclock off the bat it is NOT a good buy, you can get an amd system which is faster at stock and still has some overclocking room for experementation later.
The only thing which makes the 1.6a attractive is its overclocking, for the same price as the cpu you can get a 1800+ amd chip which can overclock later, and run much faster now.
So, I would have to say, if you dont want to overclock right this second, dont get the 1.6a, its just too expensive for such a slow(at stock) chip.
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
it's all about adjusting the FBS in the BIOS? I thought it would involve more like core voltage adjustment and other stuffs? Raystonn i have a generic/regular case with 300 WATT, is that enough? Right now i'm using Athlon T-Bird 1.0 gigz with 384 RAM. I wonder if the new P4 motherboard can fit in the case? Most motherboards are ATX so it should fit right?
| Quote : If you plan on overclocking, the Pentium 4 1.6A is the best option. The socket and motherboards should last quite a while, allowing you to upgrade in the future. AMD's currently offerings will not be upgradable to the Hammer at the end of the year. It will require you to buy a new motherboard. |
But you will be able to use the FULL line of tbreds and bartons which will continue for the next year, and you will also be able to overclock those very nicely.
if you arent overclocking, dont buy the p4, period.
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
Most Northwood 1.6A overclockers seem to like ABIT boards especially. ABIT BD7 for DDR and ABIT TH7II or TH7II-RAID for RDRAM. If I were you, I'd buy TH7II-RAID plus two PC800 256MB RDRAM. I don't know how easy it is to get high-quality Samsung RDRAM in the market. The new Pentium 4 1.6A is based on 0.13 micron process manufacturered Northwood core. The old Pentium 4 1.6 is based on 0.18 micron process manufacturered Willamette core. 20 dollars difference in PriceWatch. In addition, ABIT motherboards based on i850 and i845 DDR chipset usually cost more. Hm. Depending on how much you are ready to spend... (I'm not ready to buy an ABIT TH7II or ABIT BD7 because of high price.)
Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
whew that was pretty fast there ray!
anyway do u use MSN Messenger ( dumb question , who doesnt ? ) , whats your email ? post it here or PM it to me please , id like to chat
Any mystery devised by mortal mind can be solved therewith - Holmes
| Quote : it's all about adjusting the FBS in the BIOS? I thought it would involve more like core voltage adjustment and other stuffs? Raystonn i have a generic/regular case with 300 WATT, is that enough? Right now i'm using Athlon T-Bird 1.0 gigz with 384 RAM. I wonder if the new P4 motherboard can fit in the case? Most motherboards are ATX so it should fit right? |
It does involve core voltage, and some bios changes(like current differential), it is easy to someone familar with overclocking, but if you are new to it it will require some learning.
Your psu should work, but at 2.4ghz the p4 may be drawing alot of current, also does your psu have the 12 volt connector thingy?
The motherboard should fit in the case just fine though.
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
| Quote : it's all about adjusting the FBS in the BIOS? I thought it would involve more like core voltage adjustment and other stuffs? |
You will need to adjust the FSB, RDRAM multiplier, and core voltage. All of these settings can be modified in the BIOS.
| Quote : Raystonn i have a generic/regular case with 300 WATT, is that enough? |
How much current does it offer on the 12 volt line? Wattage is not as important as the quality of the power. Also, you must ensure it is ATX 2.03 compliant. This means it should have the 4-pin 12-volt square connector.
| Quote : I wonder if the new P4 motherboard can fit in the case? Most motherboards are ATX so it should fit right? |
It should fit in the case.
-Raystonn
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
| Quote : anyway do u use MSN Messenger ( dumb question , who doesnt ? ) |
No.
| Quote : whats your email ? post it here or PM it to me please , id like to chat |
You can send me a private message by clicking on the "Send Private Msg" link on the left.
-Raystonn
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
really? i didnt think anyone didnt have msn , oh well.
ray , quick question.
iv got a VC820 (from the CC820 exchange program) + 128 MB RDRAM (it has a nice blue ramsink - i was one of the first to get RDRAM in Lebanon !!) , along with my PIII 866EB CPU.
Can i do any overclocking ? i dont think so because i cant see any FSB setting in the phoenix bios intel uses.
Any mystery devised by mortal mind can be solved therewith - Holmes
Seems to me you chose the most inappropriate combination for overclocking.
866EB, VC820, RDRAM...
Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
at the time i really had no option.
i had a faulty CC820 , and since there is no intel branch in Lebanon , i had to send it with my uncle to italy ( hes a trader - he always travels back and forth ) where he exchanged it from intel italia.
so i really didnt have an option , but can i do anything ?
Any mystery devised by mortal mind can be solved therewith - Holmes
I am not sure of what you guys mean by PSU? I have no idea about 12 voltage, but i think i have it 'cause my bios says something about 12 volt. I'm not sure, how do i find out about all this? Beside ABIT, is there any other good boards for overclocking? Abit is kind of expensive right now. Also, can i stablely overclock it to 2.0 gigz without overheating problem?
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TrueBoyz on 03/24/02 08:22 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
PSU is the power supply unit of your PC. it supplies power (duh 
) . if u can open some screws open your case cover and read the values ray asked for off the sticker on the power supply.
The power supply is where the power cable is connected , so its not hard to find.
Any mystery devised by mortal mind can be solved therewith - Holmes
I don't know where you live but I am in Seoul. ABIT boards are real expensive here and they don't import the RAID versions at all when I need to attach more HDDs and CD-RWs.
PSU is for Power Supply Unit as HSF is for Heat Sink Fan.
I touched 1.6A running at 2.1GHz with my bare fingertips at various points around the bottom of heatsink. Just the cold-feeling metal. I felt no heat at all. It's cooler than P4 1500MHz unoverclocked. (I have two of these .18.)
Epox boards offer good overclocking options but I don't think the price is so different from Abit. ABIT BD7m is only about $95 but I don't know whether its only difference from ABIT BD7 is the number of PCI slots. Anyway, I would buy ABIT BD7 if I could for under $120.
If your PSU has specification written, maybe it'll say whether it supports Pentium 4 or not. Most of my PSU do since I made sure of that.
Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
hm... the only thing I know of Intel boards is that they offer no overclocking and the best service.
I'm surprised there is no Intel branch in Lebanon.
Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
What's the different between the regular version and the RAID? What does RAID do? Have you heard about the MSI or ASUS motherboards the new norwood p4? Is it good?
One thing I do know Intel has a Track Record of Changing sockets. Seems to me every 5 Months it differnt. So keep that in mind.
RAID versions have RAID chip and two more IDE channels.
With the RAID chip onboard, one can connect up to eight IDE devices instead of four only. The forthcoming ABIT "MAX" series motherboards will be equipped with HPT-374 4-channel ATA-133 (IDE) RAID chip onboard, therefore supporting up to 12 (!!!) IDE devices. RAID is for Redundant Array of Independent (or Inexpensive) Device.
Hm. There are some MSI and Asus 845 DDR and 850 motherboards, too. I guess they are good but most overclockers seem to like the ABIT boards specially.
Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
so do you think that i should go with the ABIT TH7II for $146 or it would be better for me go with the ABIT TH7II-RAID for $160?
I think TH7II-RAID is better.
Some of my friends in Seoul would buy it for a little more than $200.
Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
I don't think i would spend $200 for a motherboard. That's way too expensive.
Yep. That's why it's better to have a free trade.
Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
hey ray, i have an abit TH7II with the p4 1.6a. i bought it wiht the intent of overclocking but haven't yet. i =have two questions:
1. besides for saying that you ahve a few hundred points here and there on some benchmark, what difference do you see going from 1.6 to 2.0 in actuall programs(windows, games, internet, office applications)?
2. you say we need to adjust the fsb, rdram multiplier, and core voltages from the bios, well what do we need to change them too and do we need to update the bios?
repeat after me, we are all individuals!
Add me as another vote for 1.6a and TH7-II w/RAID
buy true samsung ram.
I saw this in the newegg.com refurb section <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=280&manufactory=1283&Type=Refurbish" target="_new">TH7-II with RAID</A> with free shipping. newegg has good prices and reputation too.
Proving once again that <A HREF="http://www.zombo.com" target="_new">anything is possible</A>.
even I'm thinking of next upgrade to be the 1.6a and TH7-II RAID
, just because the price and o/c sweetness
<font color=red>Computer upgraded, now need a place to live, and a good divorce lawyer.</font color=red>
What about the regular ABIT TH7II? Does it offers overclocking abilities also? I'm kind of on a budget.
It's exactly the same board, just without the two RAID channels.
<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
| Quote : 1. besides for saying that you ahve a few hundred points here and there on some benchmark, what difference do you see going from 1.6 to 2.0 in actuall programs(windows, games, internet, office applications)? |
You should be able to attain 2.4GHz on a 1.6A using the retail heatsink/fan. This is a 50% increase in clockspeed and FSB. You should definately see differences in your games.
| Quote : 2. you say we need to adjust the fsb, rdram multiplier, and core voltages from the bios, well what do we need to change them too and do we need to update the bios? |
I recommend you grab the beta BIOS 77 or 43a for the TH7II and TH7II-RAID. They both allow a core voltage of up to 1.85 volts for the 1.6A. You adjust the FSB to 150MHz, the AGP/PCI dividers to "Fix", and the RDRAM multiplier to 3x. You start at default voltage of 1.50 volts and see if you can boot up in a stable fashion. If not, push up the voltage and try again. Once you find a stable voltage, leave it there and you are done.
Note that you need low density Samsung RDRAM modules. The 16-device 256MB or 8-device 128MB modules will do.
-Raystonn
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
No new sockets are on the roadmap. The current Socket 478 will be used at least through 2003, and probably much further than that. The Prescott looks like a Socket 478 processor.
-Raystonn
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
43a BIOS?
The 77 isn't a beta, BTW.
<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
| Quote : and since there is no intel branch in Lebanon , i had to send it with my uncle to italy |
If everyone would stop trying to blow up Israel you would have had a much easier time. There is an Intel branch in Israel.
Has anyone else had their thoughts wander back to the game 'Lemmings', where they would blow themselves up on command, while watching the news from the middle-east?
-Raystonn
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
The 43a BIOS gives extra options for AGP/PCI dividers and adds a new option called "Spread Spectrum Modulation" that is enabled by default.
-Raystonn
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
Where can I get 43a, and what does "Spread Spectrum Modulation" do?
<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
| Quote : If everyone would stop trying to blow up Israel you would have had a much easier time. There is an Intel branch in Israel.
|
LOL, so sad, so true
<font color=red>First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.</font color=red><font color=blue>
Spread Spectrum Modulation decreases EMI radiation, allowing systems that would normally fail an FCC test to pass. Instead of operating on, say, a straight 100MHz external clock, it varies from 99.5MHz to 100.5MHz very quickly. Thus, it spreads out the interference among many different frequencies. The FCC only checks individual frequencies, and sees much less interference and allows the device to pass. The problem with Spread Spectrum Modulation is that it can introduce a bit of jitter and can cause your system not to overclock as well in some cases. Thusfar I have seen no difference in my system.
Check <A HREF="http://www.solidhardware.com/macci/stuff/" target="_new">here</A> for the new BIOS and some other random things.
-Raystonn
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
Wow! Talk about a fancy overclocking features! Sounds interesting.
AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
So it passes FCC more readily, but doesn't really offer any less radiation? Or am I missing something?
<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
It offers less radiation at any specific frequency. The radiation is spread out across a range of frequencies instead of all being at exactly 100MHz. When enabled, the feature cuts down on EMI. When disabled, it cuts down on clock noise.
-Raystonn
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
Back to the topic, i was wondering can if i go with the ABIT TH7II-RAID mb with 1.6A, can i push it just to 2.0 mhz with retail HSF or whatever speed is best without overheating problem? Also can someone tell why do i need 2 stick of rdram? Would just one stick of 256 MB be enough? BTW, what's the best ram to buy if I plan to overclock?
Ps. What's the average temperature do you guys have who running the norwood cpu above 2.0 ghz?
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TrueBoyz on 03/26/02 10:52 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Memory must be installed in pairs on the TH7-II
Pushing a 1.6a to 2.0Ghz is very easy, no heat problems with stock HSF. If you remove the HSF tear off tape and clean surface with alcohol. use heat sink compound before you re-apply.
The 1.6a identifies as a 2G+ with sandra.
My temps would not be a fair compairison.
Proving once again that <A HREF="http://www.zombo.com" target="_new">anything is possible</A>.
I'm a hair under 2.5GHz on my 1.6A, and I barely hit 55c under full load. That's with the stock heatsink (which is now the Sunflower, a slightly better one), and Arctic Silver II.
<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
[Re-post from the Overclocking forum, I should have searched and placed it here to begin with, sorry]
I'm trying to go for that P4-1.6a @ 133 FSB = 2100+Mhz.
Before you scream Why P4!? (Ok I'm too late you already screamed.) It's about time I give Intel another shot. I would really like to know for myself if my Athlon 1900-XP can hold it's own against the P4 Northwood beond 2Ghz. I'm getting tired of recomending the Athlon-XP over the P4 without the experience myself.
Anyway onto the issue at hand.
I've got a ECS P4VMM2 (Via P4M266) and P4 1.6a (Northwood 512k) sitting in the boxes. The P4VMM2 can handle 100Mhz or 133Mhz FSB via Jumper, with proper PCI/AGP Ratios... that I'm 95% sure of. The Manual is unclear as to if you can adjust the Vcore in Bios. I don't know if I can adjust the core Voltage though... If anyone knows that I can then I'll rip open the boxes and do a little review while I try to get the cpu to run with that 533Mhz bus.
If the P4VMM2 doesn't have voltage adjust (Or I can't wait for a reply rip it open and try it ... and it fails) what Motherboard would you recomend for the 1.6a to 2.1?
Thanks.
...Damned original VooDooGraphics Chip... Now addicted to 3D bliss.
Do i have to have the memory in pair? What's the benefit or is that a requirement?
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