Staking A Vampire

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Since 3E doesn't have called shots, how do you say when your character
has actually staked the vampire's heart? Do you have to wait until it's
helpless or can you say at any time that youre staking the heart in
combat? Like, Buffy did it all the time on TV, but that's not what
Christopher Lee did.
40 answers Last reply
More about staking vampire
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Sea Wasp wrote:
    > Dormmamu wrote:
    > > Since 3E doesn't have called shots, how do you say when your character
    > > has actually staked the vampire's heart? Do you have to wait until it's
    > > helpless or can you say at any time that youre staking the heart in
    > > combat? Like, Buffy did it all the time on TV, but that's not what
    > > Christopher Lee did.
    >
    > Buffy had a special skill in that I think. Remember, she's
    > supernatural by just about any standard. Special Feat, "Targeted
    > Staking" or something.

    Interestingly enough, I would handle this just like the Buffy
    roleplaying game does. If you do enough damage with a staking attack
    to drop a thing, then you've staked it. if not, you failed to stake
    it. So a staking attack that drops a creature to 0 or below stakes it.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Dormmamu wrote:
    >
    > Since 3E doesn't have called shots, how do you say when your character
    > has actually staked the vampire's heart? Do you have to wait until it's
    > helpless or can you say at any time that youre staking the heart in
    > combat? Like, Buffy did it all the time on TV, but that's not what
    > Christopher Lee did.

    the way i handle it, is when the montser goes to 0 HP, it indicates it
    has been pinned down and is able to be staked
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    vince garcia wrote:
    > Dormmamu wrote:
    > >
    > > Since 3E doesn't have called shots, how do you say when your character
    > > has actually staked the vampire's heart? Do you have to wait until it's
    > > helpless or can you say at any time that youre staking the heart in
    > > combat? Like, Buffy did it all the time on TV, but that's not what
    > > Christopher Lee did.
    >
    > the way i handle it, is when the montser goes to 0 HP, it indicates it
    > has been pinned down and is able to be staked

    How about, based on their nature of hitting vital organs, a critical
    hit with a stake goes through a vampire's heart?
    Could a rogue do this with a stake sneak attack?
    But I don't know where the power balance is going to go with vampires
    suddenly vulnerable to critical hits...
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Dormmamu wrote:
    > Since 3E doesn't have called shots, how do you say when your character
    > has actually staked the vampire's heart? Do you have to wait until it's
    > helpless or can you say at any time that youre staking the heart in
    > combat? Like, Buffy did it all the time on TV, but that's not what
    > Christopher Lee did.

    Buffy had a special skill in that I think. Remember, she's
    supernatural by just about any standard. Special Feat, "Targeted
    Staking" or something.

    --
    Sea Wasp
    /^\
    ;;;
    Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:46:52 GMT, scrawled:

    >> the way i handle it, is when the montser goes to 0 HP, it indicates it
    >> has been pinned down and is able to be staked
    >
    > How about, based on their nature of hitting vital organs, a critical
    > hit with a stake goes through a vampire's heart?
    > Could a rogue do this with a stake sneak attack?
    > But I don't know where the power balance is going to go with vampires
    > suddenly vulnerable to critical hits...
    >

    Could always say that on critical, roll again with a 15-20% chance of
    hitting the right organ.

    --
    http://www.rexx.co.uk

    To email me, visit the site.
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "vince garcia" <vggarciaxx@ix.netcom.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:42A964A5.4293@ix.netcom.com...
    > Dormmamu wrote:
    > >
    > > Since 3E doesn't have called shots, how do you say when your character
    > > has actually staked the vampire's heart? Do you have to wait until it's
    > > helpless or can you say at any time that youre staking the heart in
    > > combat? Like, Buffy did it all the time on TV, but that's not what
    > > Christopher Lee did.
    >
    > the way i handle it, is when the montser goes to 0 HP, it indicates it
    > has been pinned down and is able to be staked

    Don't vampires go gaseous at 0 hp? This would mean you'd have to find the
    coffin to stake it.
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Markus Sch?fer" <markus.schaefer@ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:
    > "vince garcia" <vggarciaxx@ix.netcom.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    > news:42A964A5.4293@ix.netcom.com...
    >> Dormmamu wrote:
    >> >
    >> > Since 3E doesn't have called shots, how do you say when your character
    >> > has actually staked the vampire's heart? Do you have to wait until it's
    >> > helpless or can you say at any time that youre staking the heart in
    >> > combat? Like, Buffy did it all the time on TV, but that's not what
    >> > Christopher Lee did.
    >>
    >> the way i handle it, is when the montser goes to 0 HP, it indicates it
    >> has been pinned down and is able to be staked
    >
    > Don't vampires go gaseous at 0 hp? This would mean you'd have to find the
    > coffin to stake it.

    It depends entirely on how you prefer your vampires in your campaign.
    If you want the group too search for the coffin before finally finishing
    it off, this may be exactly what you want. But if you prefer Buffy-like
    fights, any decent hit with a stake is going to hit the heart.


    mcv.
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    In article <3gt7duFe5n98U1@news.dfncis.de>, markus.schaefer@ruhr-uni-
    bochum.de says...

    > > > Since 3E doesn't have called shots, how do you say when your character
    > > > has actually staked the vampire's heart? Do you have to wait until it's
    > > > helpless or can you say at any time that youre staking the heart in
    > > > combat? Like, Buffy did it all the time on TV, but that's not what
    > > > Christopher Lee did.
    > >
    > > the way i handle it, is when the montser goes to 0 HP, it indicates it
    > > has been pinned down and is able to be staked
    >
    > Don't vampires go gaseous at 0 hp? This would mean you'd have to find the
    > coffin to stake it.

    I'd rule that if you bring him down to 0 with a stake attack, he's now
    staked instead of gaseous.


    --
    Jasin Zujovic
    jzujovic@inet.hr
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Chad Lubrecht wrote:
    > On 10 Jun 2005 04:46:52 -0700, snikers000@hotmail.com wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >How about, based on their nature of hitting vital organs, a critical
    > >hit with a stake goes through a vampire's heart?
    > .
    >
    > Then a critical hit with a stake should kill a human as well. They
    > don't function well with stakes through their hearts either.

    Nor are real life humans capable of jumping off of cliffs with total
    certainity they will survive, take multiple sword thrusts with no
    threat of permanent damage, or have complete and total pain tolerance.

    Okay, weak argument. Uhh........dramatic liscence is another argument
    that solves every problem. Oh wait!

    It doesn't kill humans because MAGIC. And, uh, ninja.
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Piggybacking slightly.

    Jasin Zujovic wrote:
    > markus.schaefer@ruhr-uni-bochum.de says...

    > > > > Since 3E doesn't have called shots, how do you say when
    > > > > your character has actually staked the vampire's heart?
    > > > > Do you have to wait until it's helpless or can you say
    > > > > at any time that youre staking the heart in combat?
    > > > > Like, Buffy did it all the time on TV, but that's not
    > > > > what Christopher Lee did.

    ISTR the rules assumption was that staking occurred when the vampire
    was helpless in its coffin, or somehow otherwise helpless, and only
    then.

    > > > the way i handle it, is when the montser goes to 0 HP,
    > > > it indicates it has been pinned down and is able to
    > > > be staked
    > >
    > > Don't vampires go gaseous at 0 hp? This would mean
    > > you'd have to find the coffin to stake it.

    Supporting my point above.

    > I'd rule that if you bring him down to 0 with a stake
    > attack, he's now staked instead of gaseous.

    I'd allow that, but stake attacks are weak at best. Personally, I'd
    require the stake attack that brings the vampire below 0 to be a
    critical hit (a moving target isn't easy to hit right in the heart
    with a wooden stake, especially when there's that pesky ribcage in the
    way, and such). Since it wouldn't do any extra damage to a vampire,
    being undead and therefore immune to crits, it's only necessary to
    check for confirmation on those hits which bring the vampire below 0.
    (Remember that checking for confirmation despite crit immunity is also
    necessary when using a /$foo burst/ weapon against an undead or other
    creature immune to crits).

    IMC, I'd let a person who is pinning a vampire and has (or gets out) a
    stake in hand may make a full-round grapple check with a -4 penalty
    (it's a hard target) vs. the vampire's defensive grapple check in
    order to stake the vampire.

    I like this solution because it means, in order to get the easy kill
    (or, rather, the easy subdue, since removing the stake reverses the
    kill), you have to open yourself up to the vampire's blood drain
    attack, which is also performed during a grapple.

    Obviously, depending how hard you want staking to be, you could adjust
    the penalty up or down, or adjust the time required.

    --
    Nik
    - remove vermin from email address to reply.
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Nikolas Landauer wrote:
    >
    > Piggybacking slightly.

    To add insult to injury, I'm replying to my own post, which was a
    slight piggyback.

    > Jasin Zujovic wrote:
    > >
    > > I'd rule that if you bring him down to 0 with a stake
    > > attack, he's now staked instead of gaseous.

    I followed this with some options, one of which was a poorly-conceived
    grappling solution. Through IM with Keith, I changed my mind about
    that. So, to change my suggestions:

    You can stab a helpless vampire at or below 0 hp through the heart
    with a stake (I would consider this a full-round action that provokes
    attacks of opportunity, though obviously not from the helpless
    vampire). That said, it's not easy to get a vampire at 0 hp (and
    helpless) outside its coffin.

    To make this more common, I've added this rule:

    HEART-SHOT (or other direct vital organ attack) VS. UNDEAD.

    You may make a heart-shot against a vampire while wielding a wooden
    stake (or a direct attack against another vital organ in a creature
    for whom it matters), with two qualifications:
    1) your wooden stake attack brings the vampire (or other undead) to
    0 hp or less; and
    2) you do one of the following with the wooden stake attack:
    a) roll a confirmed critical (but with no extra damage, since
    undead are immune to criticals); or
    b) make an attack which would qualify as a sneak attack (but with
    no extra damage, again); or
    c) you declare *before* the attack that you are attempting a
    heart-shot (or other direct vital organ attack) and take a -5 penalty
    to your attack roll.

    If you want to expand this past undead, for those characters who might
    wish a "signature kill style", you can do so by replacing all
    instances of "0 hp or less" with "-10 hp or less" or whatever
    threshold your game uses for death (IMC, for instance, that value is
    -Con).

    The only reason this Heart-Shot action is possible against vampires is
    that they have a specific targetable weak point, which most other
    undead and constructs do not.

    Similarly, Keith put it best for mortals as "want to heartshot a
    human? Take -5 on your hit roll, [or] successfully crit or sneak
    attack, *and* get him to -10 hit points and congratulations,
    heartshot"

    Note that the sneak attack qualification makes it *much* easier for
    rogues to perform this action than other character classes. This is
    partially intentional, since rogues are pretty much vampire fodder
    normally, so this gives them a role in a fight against a vampire, and
    preserves their genre flavor: (Keith again) "Everybody else beats up
    on it until [the rogue] can get in and finish it off with a
    well-aimed, well-timed *spike*."

    One final note: This doesn't help you kill the vampire any faster
    (which is what Keith, and a lot of others were surely concerned
    about), it just saves you having to track down the coffin.

    --
    Nik
    - remove vermin from email address to reply.
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    vince garcia <vggarciaxx@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
    news:42A964A5.4293@ix.netcom.com:

    > the way i handle it, is when the montser goes to 0 HP, it
    > indicates it has been pinned down and is able to be staked
    >

    Did you "House Rule" this? Because I have never seen any this
    ruled out anywhere.

    --
    Marc
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Markus Schäfer wrote:
    >
    > "vince garcia" <vggarciaxx@ix.netcom.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    > news:42A964A5.4293@ix.netcom.com...
    > > Dormmamu wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Since 3E doesn't have called shots, how do you say when your character
    > > > has actually staked the vampire's heart? Do you have to wait until it's
    > > > helpless or can you say at any time that youre staking the heart in
    > > > combat? Like, Buffy did it all the time on TV, but that's not what
    > > > Christopher Lee did.
    > >
    > > the way i handle it, is when the montser goes to 0 HP, it indicates it
    > > has been pinned down and is able to be staked
    >
    > Don't vampires go gaseous at 0 hp? This would mean you'd have to find the
    > coffin to stake it.


    According to the rules, yes, but that's one rule i found works too much
    in favor of the vampire. Brings up the question of what happenes if the
    coffin is in the next room? Is the vampire still gaseous? Can you stake
    him then? Can you follow the gas back to the coffin, etc. So, since the
    gaseous-at-death thing isn't in any vampire mythos that i know of, i
    ignored it.

    Otherwise, I don't know how you'd handle it w/out violating some sort of
    rule somewhere down the line
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On 10 Jun 2005 04:46:52 -0700, snikers000@hotmail.com wrote:

    >
    >How about, based on their nature of hitting vital organs, a critical
    >hit with a stake goes through a vampire's heart?
    ..

    Then a critical hit with a stake should kill a human as well. They
    don't function well with stakes through their hearts either.
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Chad Lubrecht wrote:
    > snikers000@hotmail.com wrote:
    > >
    > > How about, based on their nature of hitting vital organs,
    > > a critical hit with a stake goes through a vampire's heart?
    >
    > Then a critical hit with a stake should kill a human as
    > well. They don't function well with stakes through their
    > hearts either.

    "How do I kill one?"
    "Drive a stake through its heart."
    "It's amazing how many things that'll kill..."

    --
    Nik
    - remove vermin from email address to reply.
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Nikolas Landauer <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote:
    > Nikolas Landauer wrote:
    >>
    >> Piggybacking slightly.
    >
    > To add insult to injury, I'm replying to my own post, which was a
    > slight piggyback.
    >
    >> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
    >> >
    >> > I'd rule that if you bring him down to 0 with a stake
    >> > attack, he's now staked instead of gaseous.
    >
    > I followed this with some options, one of which was a poorly-conceived
    > grappling solution. Through IM with Keith, I changed my mind about
    > that. So, to change my suggestions:
    >
    > You can stab a helpless vampire at or below 0 hp through the heart
    > with a stake (I would consider this a full-round action that provokes
    > attacks of opportunity, though obviously not from the helpless
    > vampire). That said, it's not easy to get a vampire at 0 hp (and
    > helpless) outside its coffin.
    >
    > To make this more common, I've added this rule:
    >
    > HEART-SHOT (or other direct vital organ attack) VS. UNDEAD.
    >
    > You may make a heart-shot against a vampire while wielding a wooden
    > stake (or a direct attack against another vital organ in a creature
    > for whom it matters), with two qualifications:

    s/matters/is fatal/

    Apart from that, I think you've got it.

    > Similarly, Keith put it best for mortals as "want to heartshot a
    > human? Take -5 on your hit roll, [or] successfully crit or sneak
    > attack, *and* get him to -10 hit points and congratulations,
    > heartshot"

    The only reason for the -5 is that the heart is a small target, btw. If
    you can pull this off, the guy is dead anyway.

    It can have application elsewhere, too -- it provides a reasonable
    mechanism for handling tighmaevril bloodtheft in Bloodright.

    > One final note: This doesn't help you kill the vampire any faster
    > (which is what Keith, and a lot of others were surely concerned
    > about), it just saves you having to track down the coffin.

    In part, yes. Also, the other mechsnism looked like a pain in the ass
    to apply, and it looked like it could set a nasty precedent. If you can
    heartshot a vampire that way, why not a human?

    Now the heartshot is reduced to the killing blow and the only 'real'
    effect is that, as Nik said, it saves you having to find the coffin.


    Keith
    --
    Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
    keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
    keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
    http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Dormmamu" <Dormammu@thedarkdimension.com> wrote in message
    news:pMcqe.10011$qr.7343@fed1read06...
    > Since 3E doesn't have called shots, how do you say when your character has
    > actually staked the vampire's heart? Do you have to wait until it's
    > helpless or can you say at any time that youre staking the heart in
    > combat? Like, Buffy did it all the time on TV, but that's not what
    > Christopher Lee did.


    I'd rule it's a coup de grace and can only be performed under circumstances
    that allowed a coup de grace.
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    vince garcia wrote:

    > According to the rules, yes, but that's one rule i found works too much
    > in favor of the vampire. Brings up the question of what happenes if the
    > coffin is in the next room? Is the vampire still gaseous? Can you stake
    > him then? Can you follow the gas back to the coffin, etc. So, since the
    > gaseous-at-death thing isn't in any vampire mythos that i know of, i
    > ignored it.

    Gaseous at death is in the Dracula novel. At the end of the book, to
    kill him, they stab him in the heart with a bowie knife and he turns to
    smoke and wafts away.

    I say Stoker was leaving himself room for a sequel, myself. I mean,
    earlier on in the book, Dracula turned to smoke and wafted away and he
    wasn't dead.
    --
    Stephenls
    Geek
    "You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
    -Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon
  19. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    In article <HfRqe.1653889$8l.1614926@pd7tw1no>,
    Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
    >Gaseous at death is in the Dracula novel. At the end of the book, to
    >kill him, they stab him in the heart with a bowie knife and he turns to
    >smoke and wafts away.
    >
    >I say Stoker was leaving himself room for a sequel, myself. I mean,
    >earlier on in the book, Dracula turned to smoke and wafted away and he
    >wasn't dead.

    Fred Saberhagen, in "The Dracula Tape", had Dracula observe that they used a
    non-wooden weapon to try to stake him, whereupon he melted into mist
    voluntarily.
    --
    "Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
    http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
  20. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Stephenls wrote:
    >
    > vince garcia wrote:
    >
    > > According to the rules, yes, but that's one rule i found works too much
    > > in favor of the vampire. Brings up the question of what happenes if the
    > > coffin is in the next room? Is the vampire still gaseous? Can you stake
    > > him then? Can you follow the gas back to the coffin, etc. So, since the
    > > gaseous-at-death thing isn't in any vampire mythos that i know of, i
    > > ignored it.
    >
    > Gaseous at death is in the Dracula novel. At the end of the book, to
    > kill him, they stab him in the heart with a bowie knife and he turns to
    > smoke and wafts away.
    >
    > I say Stoker was leaving himself room for a sequel, myself. I mean,
    > earlier on in the book, Dracula turned to smoke and wafted away and he
    > wasn't dead.
    > --
    > Stephenls
    > Geek
    > "You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
    > -Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon


    Interesting. It's been decades since I read the book. I don't recall the
    gaseous thing; I only seem to recall that it mentioned a look of peace
    came across his face. I may be confusing it w/another book
  21. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    David Empey wrote:

    > You're leaving out one of the more interesting features
    > of the staking rule: the stake attack does (iirc) 5x
    > normal damage, *if* 5x normal damage would kill the
    > vamp; otherwise it does normal damage.

    As far as i can tell (based on the SRD, the MM and the PHB) you have
    just made that interesting rule up, possibly off the top of your head.
    if that has ever been the case it is not now the case.
  22. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    David Empey wrote:
    > Nikolas Landauer wrote:
    > >
    > > "How do I kill one?"
    > > "Drive a stake through its heart."
    > > "It's amazing how many things that'll kill..."
    >
    > ITYM:
    >
    > BUFFY
    > Why don't I put a stake through her heart?
    >
    > GILES
    > She's not a vampire.
    >
    > BUFFY
    > You'd be surprised how many things that'll kill.

    That was in my mind, but it wasn't the first incidence of the joke.

    That said, I can't remember which one I actually *was* referencing
    (though I knew the Buffy one wasn't that), so I may be off a little,
    anyway.

    --
    Nik
    - remove vermin from email address to reply.
  23. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Anivair wrote:
    > David Empey wrote:
    > >
    > > You're leaving out one of the more interesting features
    > > of the staking rule: the stake attack does (iirc) 5x
    > > normal damage, *if* 5x normal damage would kill the
    > > vamp; otherwise it does normal damage.
    >
    > As far as i can tell (based on the SRD, the MM and the
    > PHB) you have just made that interesting rule up,
    > possibly off the top of your head. if that has ever
    > been the case it is not now the case.

    If you had left in the context, you might have noted that David is,
    most likely, talking about how staking works in the Buffy RPG.

    --
    Nik
    - remove vermin from email address to reply.
  24. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Nikolas Landauer <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote:
    > David Empey wrote:
    >> Nikolas Landauer wrote:
    >> >
    >> > "How do I kill one?"
    >> > "Drive a stake through its heart."
    >> > "It's amazing how many things that'll kill..."
    >>
    >> ITYM:
    >>
    >> BUFFY
    >> Why don't I put a stake through her heart?
    >>
    >> GILES
    >> She's not a vampire.
    >>
    >> BUFFY
    >> You'd be surprised how many things that'll kill.
    >
    > That was in my mind, but it wasn't the first incidence of the joke.
    >
    > That said, I can't remember which one I actually *was* referencing
    > (though I knew the Buffy one wasn't that), so I may be off a little,
    > anyway.

    I've seen the same comment used in Pratchett, and in Tom Holt (Lundqvist
    plans to kill someone he expects is a vampire and gets a wooden stake
    ready... which will serve him just as well if his target *isn't* in fact
    a vampire).

    There's a somewhat similar scene in _Carpe Jugulum_. Nanny and Agnes
    are discussing how to kill a vampire. All solutions involved 'chop off
    the head', followed by [fill the mouth with salt, stuff a lemon in its
    mouth, pound a carrot into each ear, ...].


    Keith
    --
    Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
    keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
    keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
    http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
  25. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Keith Davies wrote:
    > Nikolas Landauer <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote:
    >
    >>David Empey wrote:
    >>
    >>>Nikolas Landauer wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>"How do I kill one?"
    >>>>"Drive a stake through its heart."
    >>>>"It's amazing how many things that'll kill..."
    >>>
    >>>ITYM:
    >>>
    >>>BUFFY
    >>>Why don't I put a stake through her heart?
    >>>
    >>>GILES
    >>>She's not a vampire.
    >>>
    >>>BUFFY
    >>>You'd be surprised how many things that'll kill.
    >>
    >>That was in my mind, but it wasn't the first incidence of the joke.
    >>
    >>That said, I can't remember which one I actually *was* referencing
    >>(though I knew the Buffy one wasn't that), so I may be off a little,
    >>anyway.
    >
    >
    > I've seen the same comment used in Pratchett, and in Tom Holt (Lundqvist
    > plans to kill someone he expects is a vampire and gets a wooden stake
    > ready... which will serve him just as well if his target *isn't* in fact
    > a vampire).
    >
    > There's a somewhat similar scene in _Carpe Jugulum_. Nanny and Agnes
    > are discussing how to kill a vampire. All solutions involved 'chop off
    > the head', followed by [fill the mouth with salt, stuff a lemon in its
    > mouth, pound a carrot into each ear, ...].
    >

    There's a sort of truth to it. I mean, unless you think that the Kindred
    really do stalk the Kine in the streets, under the cover of the
    Masquerade, then a fair few humans have probably been staked through the
    heart due to the misapprehension or misrepresentation that they were
    Drinkers of the Blood.

    --
    "Speaking of valid debates, it seems to me that there's an inverse
    power-to-cleavage ratio among Aes Sedai." - Frank van Schie (r.a.s.w.rj)
  26. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Nikolas Landauer wrote:
    > Anivair wrote:
    > > David Empey wrote:
    > > >
    > > > You're leaving out one of the more interesting features
    > > > of the staking rule: the stake attack does (iirc) 5x
    > > > normal damage, *if* 5x normal damage would kill the
    > > > vamp; otherwise it does normal damage.
    > >
    > > As far as i can tell (based on the SRD, the MM and the
    > > PHB) you have just made that interesting rule up,
    > > possibly off the top of your head. if that has ever
    > > been the case it is not now the case.
    >
    > If you had left in the context, you might have noted that David is,
    > most likely, talking about how staking works in the Buffy RPG.

    Might have helped if he said that. Though I'm not sure that that's how
    it works in that system. I'd have to look at it again and I don't own
    the books myself. I don't recall that rule, but he may be right about
    that (though it really did sound as if he was talking about D&D).
  27. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    One of the voices in my head - or was it Anivair? - just said...
    >
    >
    > David Empey wrote:
    >
    > > You're leaving out one of the more interesting features
    > > of the staking rule: the stake attack does (iirc) 5x
    > > normal damage, *if* 5x normal damage would kill the
    > > vamp; otherwise it does normal damage.
    >
    > As far as i can tell (based on the SRD, the MM and the PHB)

    None of which are about the same game he was talking about. RTFT.
  28. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Anivair wrote:
    > Nikolas Landauer wrote:
    > > Anivair wrote:
    > > > David Empey wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > You're leaving out one of the more interesting features
    > > > > of the staking rule: the stake attack does (iirc) 5x
    > > > > normal damage, *if* 5x normal damage would kill the
    > > > > vamp; otherwise it does normal damage.
    > > >
    > > > As far as i can tell (based on the SRD, the MM and the
    > > > PHB) you have just made that interesting rule up,
    > > > possibly off the top of your head. if that has ever
    > > > been the case it is not now the case.
    > >
    > > If you had left in the context, you might have noted that
    > > David is, most likely, talking about how staking works in
    > > the Buffy RPG.
    >
    > Might have helped if he said that.

    He was responding to a post which did explicitly state that it was
    talking about the Buffy RPG.

    I'm making no statements about whether the rule exists in Buffy, as I
    don't know the system at all, but it was pretty clear to me, at least,
    that it was in reference to Buffy.

    --
    Nik
    - remove vermin from email address to reply.
  29. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    vince garcia wrote:
    > Markus Schäfer wrote:
    > >
    > > "vince garcia" <vggarciaxx@ix.netcom.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    > > news:42A964A5.4293@ix.netcom.com...
    > > > Dormmamu wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > Since 3E doesn't have called shots, how do you say when your character
    > > > > has actually staked the vampire's heart? Do you have to wait until it's
    > > > > helpless or can you say at any time that youre staking the heart in
    > > > > combat? Like, Buffy did it all the time on TV, but that's not what
    > > > > Christopher Lee did.
    > > >
    > > > the way i handle it, is when the montser goes to 0 HP, it indicates it
    > > > has been pinned down and is able to be staked
    > >
    > > Don't vampires go gaseous at 0 hp? This would mean you'd have to find the
    > > coffin to stake it.
    >
    >
    > According to the rules, yes, but that's one rule i found works too much
    > in favor of the vampire. Brings up the question of what happenes if the
    > coffin is in the next room? Is the vampire still gaseous? Can you stake
    > him then? Can you follow the gas back to the coffin, etc. So, since the
    > gaseous-at-death thing isn't in any vampire mythos that i know of, i
    > ignored it.
    >
    > Otherwise, I don't know how you'd handle it w/out violating some sort of
    > rule somewhere down the line

    It seems that, by the RAW, normal D&D vamps are a bit too powerful for
    Buffy-style stakeage.
    If that's what you want, it would seem that the simplest solution would
    be to come up with a "Lesser" Vampire (Fledgling Vamp? Weaker
    Bloodline?) that doesn't have the gaseous form ability (none of the
    buffy vamps do anyway) and rule that in your universe the majority of
    Vamps are of this type.

    Save the, "Gassy" Vamps for the big-bad and the end.

    Also isn't there a feat/PrC that gives the character the ability to
    inflict Crits/sneaks against undead? You could rule that this feat/PrC
    ability is required to get the "Heartshot" in.

    Or, of course, create a PrC, call it "The Slayer" or something and give
    it the above ability (and, from the series, the ability to inflict
    subdual damage on undead too - another way round the gaseous form
    thing).

    Skite
  30. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    aramil_silvermane@hotmail.com wrote:

    > Save the, "Gassy" Vamps for the big-bad and the end.

    If I fail my Fort save, do I become nauseated?

    -Will
  31. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    In article <1118737933.336286.7500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
    <aramil_silvermane@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >If that's what you want, it would seem that the simplest solution would
    >be to come up with a "Lesser" Vampire (Fledgling Vamp? Weaker
    >Bloodline?) that doesn't have the gaseous form ability (none of the
    >buffy vamps do anyway) ...

    Actually the Big D made a brief appearance. Though Buffy "beat" him, it was
    pretty clear he melted into mist instead of dusting.

    But in general, yeah, most of Buffy's targets are much weaker than D&D
    vampires.
    --
    "Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
    http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
  32. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    One of the voices in my head - or was it Anivair? - just said...
    >
    >
    > Nikolas Landauer wrote:
    > > Anivair wrote:
    > > > David Empey wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > You're leaving out one of the more interesting features
    > > > > of the staking rule: the stake attack does (iirc) 5x
    > > > > normal damage, *if* 5x normal damage would kill the
    > > > > vamp; otherwise it does normal damage.
    > > >
    > > > As far as i can tell (based on the SRD, the MM and the
    > > > PHB) you have just made that interesting rule up,
    > > > possibly off the top of your head. if that has ever
    > > > been the case it is not now the case.
    > >
    > > If you had left in the context, you might have noted that David is,
    > > most likely, talking about how staking works in the Buffy RPG.
    >
    > Might have helped if he said that.

    Did you read ANY of the other posts in the thread? The very post you
    were replying to quoted more than enough to make this clear - it's
    reasonable to expect you to at least skim that stuff.
  33. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Jeff Heikkinen wrote:

    > > Might have helped if he said that.
    >
    > Did you read ANY of the other posts in the thread? The very post you
    > were replying to quoted more than enough to make this clear - it's
    > reasonable to expect you to at least skim that stuff.

    Eh, I'm over it. I strongly suggest you get there as well. You'll be
    happier for it.
  34. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
    news:d8n0ot$7t1$1@knot.queensu.ca...
    > In article <1118737933.336286.7500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
    > <aramil_silvermane@hotmail.com> wrote:
    > >If that's what you want, it would seem that the simplest solution would
    > >be to come up with a "Lesser" Vampire (Fledgling Vamp? Weaker
    > >Bloodline?) that doesn't have the gaseous form ability (none of the
    > >buffy vamps do anyway) ...
    >
    > Actually the Big D made a brief appearance. Though Buffy "beat" him, it
    was
    > pretty clear he melted into mist instead of dusting.

    He was a spell caster as well though.

    > But in general, yeah, most of Buffy's targets are much weaker than D&D
    > vampires.

    I prefer Buffy type vampires. My reworked template is closer to them than
    the D&D one and I've eliminated Vampire Spawn so creatures of any HD can
    be infected (with CR +1 instead of +2 for HD <5).
  35. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On 14 Jun 2005 01:32:13 -0700, aramil_silvermane@hotmail.com dared
    speak in front of ME:

    >vince garcia wrote:
    >> Otherwise, I don't know how you'd handle it w/out violating some sort of
    >> rule somewhere down the line
    >
    >It seems that, by the RAW, normal D&D vamps are a bit too powerful for
    >Buffy-style stakeage.
    >If that's what you want, it would seem that the simplest solution would
    >be to come up with a "Lesser" Vampire (Fledgling Vamp? Weaker
    >Bloodline?) that doesn't have the gaseous form ability (none of the
    >buffy vamps do anyway)

    Dracula did.

    Admittedly, he was the *only* one who did...

    --
    Address no longer works.
    try removing all numbers from
    gafgirl1@2allstream3.net

    --
    Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
    ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
    Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access
  36. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Nikolas Landauer wrote:

    > That was in my mind, but it wasn't the first incidence of the joke.

    The one that always comes to mind for me was the scene at the end of I
    Was A Teenage Vampire. The vampire protagonist's human best friend has
    been kidnapped by the insane vampire hunter, who thinks that the friend
    is the vampire and the vampire is human. The actual exchange goes
    something like this:

    Hunter: "You don't understand! Your friend is a creature of evil now, a
    vampire! Look, I'll prove it; I'll put a stake through his heart and
    he'll die!"

    Vampire: "Er..."
    --
    Stephenls
    "If she doesn't drown, she's a witch and we'll burn her!"
    Geek
    "You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
    -Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon
  37. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Fred Saberhagen is the Writer GOH at Cascadia Con this year - might be
    a good panel in this thread.
    www.cascadiacon.org (Sept 1-5, 2005 - Seattle, WA)
  38. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Symbol wrote:
    > "David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
    > news:d8n0ot$7t1$1@knot.queensu.ca...
    > > In article <1118737933.336286.7500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
    > > <aramil_silvermane@hotmail.com> wrote:
    > > >If that's what you want, it would seem that the simplest solution would
    > > >be to come up with a "Lesser" Vampire (Fledgling Vamp? Weaker
    > > >Bloodline?) that doesn't have the gaseous form ability (none of the
    > > >buffy vamps do anyway) ...
    > >
    > > Actually the Big D made a brief appearance. Though Buffy "beat" him, it
    > was
    > > pretty clear he melted into mist instead of dusting.
    >
    > He was a spell caster as well though.

    That's a stretch. I dont' know that what we saw him accomplish counts
    as spellcasting, esspecially in the Buffyverse.

    > > But in general, yeah, most of Buffy's targets are much weaker than D&D
    > > vampires.
    >
    > I prefer Buffy type vampires. My reworked template is closer to them than
    > the D&D one and I've eliminated Vampire Spawn so creatures of any HD can
    > be infected (with CR +1 instead of +2 for HD <5).

    I try to varry vampires up. I Just sort of make them in a way that
    makes sense. I use inspiration from all over (Buffy, Dracula, D&D,
    anne rice, white-wolf, whatever). My idea being that when you become a
    vampire you have powers and abilities that resemble the vampire that
    made you and over time you slowly turn into abilities that more closely
    represent who you are. It makes for fun creation.
  39. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Anivair <anivair@gmail.com> wrote:
    >Symbol wrote:

    >> > Actually the Big D made a brief appearance. Though Buffy "beat" him, it
    >> > was pretty clear he melted into mist instead of dusting.
    >>
    >> He was a spell caster as well though.

    >That's a stretch. I dont' know that what we saw him accomplish counts
    >as spellcasting, esspecially in the Buffyverse.

    If I'm recalling correctly - and I'm not at all sure I am - his
    unusual abilities were referred to as "gypsy tricks" by Spike.
    If we can accept that as the truth - and I'm not at all sure
    we can - then I would have no problem classifying the abilities
    as spells, or at least close enough to make no practical difference.

    If Spike was lying, or mistaken, I'm not aware of any other
    evidence as to where Dracula got his non-standard abilities
    or how they worked. Given the way the Buffyverse generally
    works, though, I think Dracula learning some sort of magical
    spells or abilities is the most logical possibility. It's
    also possible that the powers were related to his vampirism
    but not shared by other vampires. We have the Master as
    evidence that that sort of thing is possible - he had
    a mind control/clouding ability that was similar to what
    Dracula used on Xander, though perhaps not as powerful.
    The shapechanging into animals ability was well beyond
    anything we've seen from any other vampire, though,
    and didn't strike me as related to the Buffyverse version
    of vampirism in any way. Given that and Spike's belief,
    which I'm willing to believe if only becuase Spike was
    generally shown to know a lot about various magical
    creatures, I have no problem accepting the idea that
    the Buffyverse Dracula was some sort of spell caster,
    though I'd be most comfortable with a fairly loose
    definition of the term.

    Man, I haven't geeked out and fanwanked to that degree in
    quite awhile. I kinda miss it.

    Pete
  40. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Peter Meilinger wrote:

    > If I'm recalling correctly - and I'm not at all sure I am - his
    > unusual abilities were referred to as "gypsy tricks" by Spike.
    > If we can accept that as the truth - and I'm not at all sure
    > we can - then I would have no problem classifying the abilities
    > as spells, or at least close enough to make no practical difference.
    >
    > If Spike was lying, or mistaken, I'm not aware of any other
    > evidence as to where Dracula got his non-standard abilities
    > or how they worked. Given the way the Buffyverse generally
    > works, though, I think Dracula learning some sort of magical
    > spells or abilities is the most logical possibility. It's
    > also possible that the powers were related to his vampirism
    > but not shared by other vampires. We have the Master as
    > evidence that that sort of thing is possible - he had
    > a mind control/clouding ability that was similar to what
    > Dracula used on Xander, though perhaps not as powerful.
    > The shapechanging into animals ability was well beyond
    > anything we've seen from any other vampire, though,
    > and didn't strike me as related to the Buffyverse version
    > of vampirism in any way. Given that and Spike's belief,
    > which I'm willing to believe if only becuase Spike was
    > generally shown to know a lot about various magical
    > creatures, I have no problem accepting the idea that
    > the Buffyverse Dracula was some sort of spell caster,
    > though I'd be most comfortable with a fairly loose
    > definition of the term.
    >
    > Man, I haven't geeked out and fanwanked to that degree in
    > quite awhile. I kinda miss it.

    You are not mistaken, that's exactly what was said. And here's the
    issue. There seems to be a huge shift in the way magic is percieved in
    the Buffyverse depending on writer and season. For example, early on
    in the show spells were generally caused by chanting and using weird
    items. And even later on some peopel cast that way, but for example,
    take season six. Willow goes from a powerhungry selfish spellcaster to
    a drug addict for no reason at all. Suddenly magic wasn't spells, it
    was a drug high. And it was that way for about six episodes. The
    implecation of her stopping the casting was, I think, that she was
    powerful enough that she didn't need chanting or odd items to cast
    spells. I don't think that was the idea with Dracula, though. I think
    I would have been happier if those abilities (and this may be the idea)
    were given to him by gypsies (on his insistance, of course).
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