Staking A Vampire

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Since 3E doesn't have called shots, how do you say when your character
has actually staked the vampire's heart? Do you have to wait until it's
helpless or can you say at any time that youre staking the heart in
combat? Like, Buffy did it all the time on TV, but that's not what
Christopher Lee did.

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"vince garcia" <vggarciaxx@ix.netcom.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:42A964A5.4293@ix.netcom.com...
> Dormmamu wrote:
> >
> > Since 3E doesn't have called shots, how do you say when your character
> > has actually staked the vampire's heart? Do you have to wait until it's
> > helpless or can you say at any time that youre staking the heart in
> > combat? Like, Buffy did it all the time on TV, but that's not what
> > Christopher Lee did.
>
> the way i handle it, is when the montser goes to 0 HP, it indicates it
> has been pinned down and is able to be staked

Don't vampires go gaseous at 0 hp? This would mean you'd have to find the
coffin to stake it.

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Dormmamu wrote:
> Since 3E doesn't have called shots, how do you say when your character
> has actually staked the vampire's heart? Do you have to wait until it's
> helpless or can you say at any time that youre staking the heart in
> combat? Like, Buffy did it all the time on TV, but that's not what
> Christopher Lee did.

Buffy had a special skill in that I think. Remember, she's
supernatural by just about any standard. Special Feat, "Targeted
Staking" or something.

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/

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On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:46:52 GMT, scrawled:

>> the way i handle it, is when the montser goes to 0 HP, it indicates it
>> has been pinned down and is able to be staked
>
> How about, based on their nature of hitting vital organs, a critical
> hit with a stake goes through a vampire's heart?
> Could a rogue do this with a stake sneak attack?
> But I don't know where the power balance is going to go with vampires
> suddenly vulnerable to critical hits...
>

Could always say that on critical, roll again with a 15-20% chance of
hitting the right organ.

--
http://www.rexx.co.uk

To email me, visit the site.

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"Markus Sch?fer" <markus.schaefer@ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:
> "vince garcia" <vggarciaxx@ix.netcom.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:42A964A5.4293@ix.netcom.com...
>> Dormmamu wrote:
>> >
>> > Since 3E doesn't have called shots, how do you say when your character
>> > has actually staked the vampire's heart? Do you have to wait until it's
>> > helpless or can you say at any time that youre staking the heart in
>> > combat? Like, Buffy did it all the time on TV, but that's not what
>> > Christopher Lee did.
>>
>> the way i handle it, is when the montser goes to 0 HP, it indicates it
>> has been pinned down and is able to be staked
>
> Don't vampires go gaseous at 0 hp? This would mean you'd have to find the
> coffin to stake it.

It depends entirely on how you prefer your vampires in your campaign.
If you want the group too search for the coffin before finally finishing
it off, this may be exactly what you want. But if you prefer Buffy-like
fights, any decent hit with a stake is going to hit the heart.


mcv.

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Markus Schäfer wrote:
>
> "vince garcia" <vggarciaxx@ix.netcom.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:42A964A5.4293@ix.netcom.com...
> > Dormmamu wrote:
> > >
> > > Since 3E doesn't have called shots, how do you say when your character
> > > has actually staked the vampire's heart? Do you have to wait until it's
> > > helpless or can you say at any time that youre staking the heart in
> > > combat? Like, Buffy did it all the time on TV, but that's not what
> > > Christopher Lee did.
> >
> > the way i handle it, is when the montser goes to 0 HP, it indicates it
> > has been pinned down and is able to be staked
>
> Don't vampires go gaseous at 0 hp? This would mean you'd have to find the
> coffin to stake it.


According to the rules, yes, but that's one rule i found works too much
in favor of the vampire. Brings up the question of what happenes if the
coffin is in the next room? Is the vampire still gaseous? Can you stake
him then? Can you follow the gas back to the coffin, etc. So, since the
gaseous-at-death thing isn't in any vampire mythos that i know of, i
ignored it.

Otherwise, I don't know how you'd handle it w/out violating some sort of
rule somewhere down the line

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Chad Lubrecht wrote:
> On 10 Jun 2005 04:46:52 -0700, snikers000@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >
> >How about, based on their nature of hitting vital organs, a critical
> >hit with a stake goes through a vampire's heart?
> .
>
> Then a critical hit with a stake should kill a human as well. They
> don't function well with stakes through their hearts either.

Nor are real life humans capable of jumping off of cliffs with total
certainity they will survive, take multiple sword thrusts with no
threat of permanent damage, or have complete and total pain tolerance.

Okay, weak argument. Uhh........dramatic liscence is another argument
that solves every problem. Oh wait!

It doesn't kill humans because MAGIC. And, uh, ninja.

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Chad Lubrecht wrote:
> snikers000@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > How about, based on their nature of hitting vital organs,
> > a critical hit with a stake goes through a vampire's heart?
>
> Then a critical hit with a stake should kill a human as
> well. They don't function well with stakes through their
> hearts either.

"How do I kill one?"
"Drive a stake through its heart."
"It's amazing how many things that'll kill..."

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.

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Nikolas Landauer <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote:
> Nikolas Landauer wrote:
>>
>> Piggybacking slightly.
>
> To add insult to injury, I'm replying to my own post, which was a
> slight piggyback.
>
>> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>> >
>> > I'd rule that if you bring him down to 0 with a stake
>> > attack, he's now staked instead of gaseous.
>
> I followed this with some options, one of which was a poorly-conceived
> grappling solution. Through IM with Keith, I changed my mind about
> that. So, to change my suggestions:
>
> You can stab a helpless vampire at or below 0 hp through the heart
> with a stake (I would consider this a full-round action that provokes
> attacks of opportunity, though obviously not from the helpless
> vampire). That said, it's not easy to get a vampire at 0 hp (and
> helpless) outside its coffin.
>
> To make this more common, I've added this rule:
>
> HEART-SHOT (or other direct vital organ attack) VS. UNDEAD.
>
> You may make a heart-shot against a vampire while wielding a wooden
> stake (or a direct attack against another vital organ in a creature
> for whom it matters), with two qualifications:

s/matters/is fatal/

Apart from that, I think you've got it.

> Similarly, Keith put it best for mortals as "want to heartshot a
> human? Take -5 on your hit roll, [or] successfully crit or sneak
> attack, *and* get him to -10 hit points and congratulations,
> heartshot"

The only reason for the -5 is that the heart is a small target, btw. If
you can pull this off, the guy is dead anyway.

It can have application elsewhere, too -- it provides a reasonable
mechanism for handling tighmaevril bloodtheft in Bloodright.

> One final note: This doesn't help you kill the vampire any faster
> (which is what Keith, and a lot of others were surely concerned
> about), it just saves you having to track down the coffin.

In part, yes. Also, the other mechsnism looked like a pain in the ass
to apply, and it looked like it could set a nasty precedent. If you can
heartshot a vampire that way, why not a human?

Now the heartshot is reduced to the killing blow and the only 'real'
effect is that, as Nik said, it saves you having to find the coffin.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch

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vince garcia wrote:

> According to the rules, yes, but that's one rule i found works too much
> in favor of the vampire. Brings up the question of what happenes if the
> coffin is in the next room? Is the vampire still gaseous? Can you stake
> him then? Can you follow the gas back to the coffin, etc. So, since the
> gaseous-at-death thing isn't in any vampire mythos that i know of, i
> ignored it.

Gaseous at death is in the Dracula novel. At the end of the book, to
kill him, they stab him in the heart with a bowie knife and he turns to
smoke and wafts away.

I say Stoker was leaving himself room for a sequel, myself. I mean,
earlier on in the book, Dracula turned to smoke and wafted away and he
wasn't dead.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
-Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon

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Stephenls wrote:
>
> vince garcia wrote:
>
> > According to the rules, yes, but that's one rule i found works too much
> > in favor of the vampire. Brings up the question of what happenes if the
> > coffin is in the next room? Is the vampire still gaseous? Can you stake
> > him then? Can you follow the gas back to the coffin, etc. So, since the
> > gaseous-at-death thing isn't in any vampire mythos that i know of, i
> > ignored it.
>
> Gaseous at death is in the Dracula novel. At the end of the book, to
> kill him, they stab him in the heart with a bowie knife and he turns to
> smoke and wafts away.
>
> I say Stoker was leaving himself room for a sequel, myself. I mean,
> earlier on in the book, Dracula turned to smoke and wafted away and he
> wasn't dead.
> --
> Stephenls
> Geek
> "You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
> -Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon


Interesting. It's been decades since I read the book. I don't recall the
gaseous thing; I only seem to recall that it mentioned a look of peace
came across his face. I may be confusing it w/another book

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David Empey wrote:
> Nikolas Landauer wrote:
> >
> > "How do I kill one?"
> > "Drive a stake through its heart."
> > "It's amazing how many things that'll kill..."
>
> ITYM:
>
> BUFFY
> Why don't I put a stake through her heart?
>
> GILES
> She's not a vampire.
>
> BUFFY
> You'd be surprised how many things that'll kill.

That was in my mind, but it wasn't the first incidence of the joke.

That said, I can't remember which one I actually *was* referencing
(though I knew the Buffy one wasn't that), so I may be off a little,
anyway.

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.

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Nikolas Landauer <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote:
> David Empey wrote:
>> Nikolas Landauer wrote:
>> >
>> > "How do I kill one?"
>> > "Drive a stake through its heart."
>> > "It's amazing how many things that'll kill..."
>>
>> ITYM:
>>
>> BUFFY
>> Why don't I put a stake through her heart?
>>
>> GILES
>> She's not a vampire.
>>
>> BUFFY
>> You'd be surprised how many things that'll kill.
>
> That was in my mind, but it wasn't the first incidence of the joke.
>
> That said, I can't remember which one I actually *was* referencing
> (though I knew the Buffy one wasn't that), so I may be off a little,
> anyway.

I've seen the same comment used in Pratchett, and in Tom Holt (Lundqvist
plans to kill someone he expects is a vampire and gets a wooden stake
ready... which will serve him just as well if his target *isn't* in fact
a vampire).

There's a somewhat similar scene in _Carpe Jugulum_. Nanny and Agnes
are discussing how to kill a vampire. All solutions involved 'chop off
the head', followed by [fill the mouth with salt, stuff a lemon in its
mouth, pound a carrot into each ear, ...].


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch

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One of the voices in my head - or was it Anivair? - just said...
>
>
> David Empey wrote:
>
> > You're leaving out one of the more interesting features
> > of the staking rule: the stake attack does (iirc) 5x
> > normal damage, *if* 5x normal damage would kill the
> > vamp; otherwise it does normal damage.
>
> As far as i can tell (based on the SRD, the MM and the PHB)

None of which are about the same game he was talking about. RTFT.

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Anivair wrote:
> Nikolas Landauer wrote:
> > Anivair wrote:
> > > David Empey wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You're leaving out one of the more interesting features
> > > > of the staking rule: the stake attack does (iirc) 5x
> > > > normal damage, *if* 5x normal damage would kill the
> > > > vamp; otherwise it does normal damage.
> > >
> > > As far as i can tell (based on the SRD, the MM and the
> > > PHB) you have just made that interesting rule up,
> > > possibly off the top of your head. if that has ever
> > > been the case it is not now the case.
> >
> > If you had left in the context, you might have noted that
> > David is, most likely, talking about how staking works in
> > the Buffy RPG.
>
> Might have helped if he said that.

He was responding to a post which did explicitly state that it was
talking about the Buffy RPG.

I'm making no statements about whether the rule exists in Buffy, as I
don't know the system at all, but it was pretty clear to me, at least,
that it was in reference to Buffy.

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.

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aramil_silvermane@hotmail.com wrote:

> Save the, "Gassy" Vamps for the big-bad and the end.

If I fail my Fort save, do I become nauseated?

-Will

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One of the voices in my head - or was it Anivair? - just said...
>
>
> Nikolas Landauer wrote:
> > Anivair wrote:
> > > David Empey wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You're leaving out one of the more interesting features
> > > > of the staking rule: the stake attack does (iirc) 5x
> > > > normal damage, *if* 5x normal damage would kill the
> > > > vamp; otherwise it does normal damage.
> > >
> > > As far as i can tell (based on the SRD, the MM and the
> > > PHB) you have just made that interesting rule up,
> > > possibly off the top of your head. if that has ever
> > > been the case it is not now the case.
> >
> > If you had left in the context, you might have noted that David is,
> > most likely, talking about how staking works in the Buffy RPG.
>
> Might have helped if he said that.

Did you read ANY of the other posts in the thread? The very post you
were replying to quoted more than enough to make this clear - it's
reasonable to expect you to at least skim that stuff.

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"David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
news8n0ot$7t1$1@knot.queensu.ca...
> In article <1118737933.336286.7500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> <aramil_silvermane@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >If that's what you want, it would seem that the simplest solution would
> >be to come up with a "Lesser" Vampire (Fledgling Vamp? Weaker
> >Bloodline?) that doesn't have the gaseous form ability (none of the
> >buffy vamps do anyway) ...
>
> Actually the Big D made a brief appearance. Though Buffy "beat" him, it
was
> pretty clear he melted into mist instead of dusting.

He was a spell caster as well though.

> But in general, yeah, most of Buffy's targets are much weaker than D&D
> vampires.

I prefer Buffy type vampires. My reworked template is closer to them than
the D&D one and I've eliminated Vampire Spawn so creatures of any HD can
be infected (with CR +1 instead of +2 for HD <5).

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Nikolas Landauer wrote:

> That was in my mind, but it wasn't the first incidence of the joke.

The one that always comes to mind for me was the scene at the end of I
Was A Teenage Vampire. The vampire protagonist's human best friend has
been kidnapped by the insane vampire hunter, who thinks that the friend
is the vampire and the vampire is human. The actual exchange goes
something like this:

Hunter: "You don't understand! Your friend is a creature of evil now, a
vampire! Look, I'll prove it; I'll put a stake through his heart and
he'll die!"

Vampire: "Er..."
--
Stephenls
"If she doesn't drown, she's a witch and we'll burn her!"
Geek
"You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
-Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon

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Symbol wrote:
> "David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
> news8n0ot$7t1$1@knot.queensu.ca...
> > In article <1118737933.336286.7500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> > <aramil_silvermane@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >If that's what you want, it would seem that the simplest solution would
> > >be to come up with a "Lesser" Vampire (Fledgling Vamp? Weaker
> > >Bloodline?) that doesn't have the gaseous form ability (none of the
> > >buffy vamps do anyway) ...
> >
> > Actually the Big D made a brief appearance. Though Buffy "beat" him, it
> was
> > pretty clear he melted into mist instead of dusting.
>
> He was a spell caster as well though.

That's a stretch. I dont' know that what we saw him accomplish counts
as spellcasting, esspecially in the Buffyverse.

> > But in general, yeah, most of Buffy's targets are much weaker than D&D
> > vampires.
>
> I prefer Buffy type vampires. My reworked template is closer to them than
> the D&D one and I've eliminated Vampire Spawn so creatures of any HD can
> be infected (with CR +1 instead of +2 for HD <5).

I try to varry vampires up. I Just sort of make them in a way that
makes sense. I use inspiration from all over (Buffy, Dracula, D&D,
anne rice, white-wolf, whatever). My idea being that when you become a
vampire you have powers and abilities that resemble the vampire that
made you and over time you slowly turn into abilities that more closely
represent who you are. It makes for fun creation.

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Peter Meilinger wrote:

> If I'm recalling correctly - and I'm not at all sure I am - his
> unusual abilities were referred to as "gypsy tricks" by Spike.
> If we can accept that as the truth - and I'm not at all sure
> we can - then I would have no problem classifying the abilities
> as spells, or at least close enough to make no practical difference.
>
> If Spike was lying, or mistaken, I'm not aware of any other
> evidence as to where Dracula got his non-standard abilities
> or how they worked. Given the way the Buffyverse generally
> works, though, I think Dracula learning some sort of magical
> spells or abilities is the most logical possibility. It's
> also possible that the powers were related to his vampirism
> but not shared by other vampires. We have the Master as
> evidence that that sort of thing is possible - he had
> a mind control/clouding ability that was similar to what
> Dracula used on Xander, though perhaps not as powerful.
> The shapechanging into animals ability was well beyond
> anything we've seen from any other vampire, though,
> and didn't strike me as related to the Buffyverse version
> of vampirism in any way. Given that and Spike's belief,
> which I'm willing to believe if only becuase Spike was
> generally shown to know a lot about various magical
> creatures, I have no problem accepting the idea that
> the Buffyverse Dracula was some sort of spell caster,
> though I'd be most comfortable with a fairly loose
> definition of the term.
>
> Man, I haven't geeked out and fanwanked to that degree in
> quite awhile. I kinda miss it.

You are not mistaken, that's exactly what was said. And here's the
issue. There seems to be a huge shift in the way magic is percieved in
the Buffyverse depending on writer and season. For example, early on
in the show spells were generally caused by chanting and using weird
items. And even later on some peopel cast that way, but for example,
take season six. Willow goes from a powerhungry selfish spellcaster to
a drug addict for no reason at all. Suddenly magic wasn't spells, it
was a drug high. And it was that way for about six episodes. The
implecation of her stopping the casting was, I think, that she was
powerful enough that she didn't need chanting or odd items to cast
spells. I don't think that was the idea with Dracula, though. I think
I would have been happier if those abilities (and this may be the idea)
were given to him by gypsies (on his insistance, of course).