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AMD = PINOCCHIO?

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AmdMELTDOWN   03-26-2002 at 06:28:12 PM

good afternoon folks! just got some really neat news and I'd like to share it with my fav peeps, well here ya go...

<b>"The Success of AMD's New Nomenclature"</b>

<A HREF="http://www.aberdeen.com/ab_company/hottopics/amd/default.htm" target="_new">AMD<font color=white> big red nose</font color=white></A>

ps, you have to register to view the article.

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by AmdMELTDOWN on 03/26/02 02:22 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

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Kennyshin   03-26-2002 at 06:54:13 PM
- 0 +

http://developer.intel.com/technol [...] stract.htm

good afternoon! I'm looking at some articles related to HT P4 and MS .net server.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal

Reply to Kennyshin
AmdMELTDOWN   03-26-2002 at 07:03:56 PM
- 0 +

cool! ht and 533fsb + higher speed DRDRAMD will further diminish AMD PR numbers until they are meaningless.

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"

Reply to AmdMELTDOWN
Tiberius13   03-26-2002 at 07:07:32 PM
- 0 +

Quote :

cool! ht and 533fsb + higher speed DRDRAMD will further diminish AMD PR numbers until they are meaningless.


Uhhh.... right... because everyone out there has Intel Xeon processors and software that has been coded to use hyperthreading.... ;)

If the facts don't support the argument you want to make... you just pretend you are dumb eh Meltdown?... Oh wait! You aren't pretending!


<font color=green><b>More salt than just a grain you will need with posts of mine. - Yoda©®</b></font color=green>

Reply to Tiberius13
Tiberius13   03-26-2002 at 07:14:45 PM
- 0 +

Interesting article.... but once again, the point is missed.

the PR rating is just as accurate as a MHz rating for evaluating pc performance. The point is they are both flawed. You can use the same processor and get dramatically different real world performance due to all of the other factors that affect performance of a system.

Also, to argue that as technology (cpu cores) change, the PR spec will get out of whack is the same issue that is faced when the core changes anyways - irregardless of AMD/Intel issues! The Mhz rating for Intel processors can't be compared either (ie. P3 to P4 or WORSE YET the P4 Willamette to the P4 Northwood)!!! Nevermind comparing an Intel to an AMD!

I guess the Pinocchio factor applies to Intel too....

The funniest thing is that if AMD has been guilty of anything with it's PR ratings so far, it has been of rating their processors TOO LOW based on benchmark results I have seen!

<font color=green><b>More salt than just a grain you will need with posts of mine. - Yoda©®</b></font color=green>

Reply to Tiberius13
Nikko   03-26-2002 at 07:15:32 PM
- 0 +

Quote :

Uhhh.... right... because everyone out there has Intel Xeon processors and software that has been coded to use hyperthreading.... ;)


Exactly! And lets pretend that AMD isn't on the verge of releasing it's own .13 micron processor which will have enough headroom to keep AMD competitive until Hammer arrives.

The Pentium 4 is really a highly overclocked VIA C3 with SSE2 and a heat spreader.

Reply to Nikko
Kennyshin   03-26-2002 at 07:26:04 PM
- 0 +

Most desktops also will have HyperThreading and there'll be enough HyperThreading-optimized applications when the desktop HyperThreading-enabled Intel CPUs appear.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal

Reply to Kennyshin
Kennyshin   03-26-2002 at 07:31:01 PM
- 0 +

There ARE already Intel E7500 plus Prestonias with HyperThreading enabled. They ARE already 130 nm.

Maybe AMD should develop Pentium 4 chipsets, too.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal

Reply to Kennyshin
Kennyshin   03-26-2002 at 07:34:15 PM
- 0 +

yeah... and Intel should name its next processor Pentium XP 10000++.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal

Reply to Kennyshin
Nikko   03-26-2002 at 07:34:25 PM
- 0 +

Yeah, and I remember hearing about all the SSE2 optimized apps but alas, where are they?

The Pentium 4 is really a highly overclocked VIA C3 with SSE2 and a heat spreader.

Reply to Nikko
Nikko   03-26-2002 at 07:37:49 PM
- 0 +

Maybe not it's next processor. A Pentium 4 rated at XP 10000++ would actually need to be running at 15GHz.

The Pentium 4 is really a highly overclocked VIA C3 with SSE2 and a heat spreader.

Reply to Nikko
Kennyshin   03-26-2002 at 07:38:08 PM
- 0 +

Why not first upgrade your outdated 180nm Athlons to 130nm Northwoods?

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal

Reply to Kennyshin
Nikko   03-26-2002 at 07:39:42 PM
- 0 +

Ummm, well, because Northwood is a POS and, quite frankly, I don't buy junk!

The Pentium 4 is really a highly overclocked VIA C3 with SSE2 and a heat spreader.

Reply to Nikko
Kennyshin   03-26-2002 at 07:45:23 PM
- 0 +

I said Pentium XP not Pentium 4 running at 15000MHz.

And why would a Pentium 4 running at 15000MHz have the same core as the first P4 Willamette? Even at 8000MHz, the L3 cache will grow something like 20MB when the largest cache size of ANY AMD processor is only 0.384MB now.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal

Reply to Kennyshin
Kennyshin   03-26-2002 at 07:49:16 PM
- 0 +

Pity you gave up using the fastest desktop CPU in the world with SSE2-optimized applications growing rapidly.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal

Reply to Kennyshin
IIB   03-26-2002 at 07:51:43 PM
- 0 +

up until 3 month ago pentium 4 had less cache then the athlon, did it bother you then?

This post is best viewed with common sense enabled<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by iib on 03/26/02 08:54 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

Reply to IIB
xxsk8er101xx   03-26-2002 at 07:52:21 PM
- 0 +

shut up intel troll.

Troll - Favoritism or biased opinions with one company for no, zero, zippo, nada, zilch gain; XA (Extreme Annoyence) on the troll'a; Ones opinion that has no meaning, no thought, and no logical input; Gay emotions over one company with no logical thought.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>

Reply to xxsk8er101xx
Kennyshin   03-26-2002 at 07:56:21 PM
- 0 +

In case you didn't know, I had FIVE Athlons three months ago at my home. Also, the price of Pentium 4 was not this low and it was mostly the same 180nm. Now, 130nm Pentium 4 with 512KB L2 will move to 133/533 FSB with 133/266 DDR and 133/533/1066 RDRAM.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal

Reply to Kennyshin
Kennyshin   03-26-2002 at 08:00:16 PM
- 0 +

If you show me a 130nm Athlon MP running at 2666MHz with 1024KB L2 today, I will.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal

Reply to Kennyshin
mbetea   03-26-2002 at 08:04:34 PM
- 0 +

wow, you get more pathetic with each passing day. funny how when inquirer is <i>trying</i> to discredit amd you're all over it. but as soon as they say one thing against intel you claim they are a worthless news source, here is a couple links to refresh your memory:
calling inquirer nothing but "garbage rumors"
<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=278962#278962" target="_new">here</A>
oh and
laughing at the fact someone said they were a respected technews site.
<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=278999#278999" target="_new">here</A>
you could at least try a bit harder to make yourself not look like such an ass.

I run duals because i multitask between notepad, outlook express and winamp :lol:

Reply to mbetea
Nikko   03-26-2002 at 08:07:59 PM
- 0 +

You must be confused. I'm still running nothing but Athlon CPU's. I haven't given them up.

The Pentium 4 is really a highly overclocked VIA C3 with SSE2 and a heat spreader.

Reply to Nikko
Kemche   03-26-2002 at 08:14:58 PM
- 0 +

------------
shut up intel troll.

Troll - Favoritism or biased opinions with one company for no, zero, zippo, nada, zilch gain; XA (Extreme Annoyence) on the troll'a; Ones opinion that has no meaning, no thought, and no logical input; Gay emotions over one company with no logical thought
------------

shut up AMD troll.

please be fair, or you will become troll. There are Intel and AMD Troll on this forum and I just wanted to make it clear. This post is waste of time, nothing but My company is better then your company, please grow up all Intel/AMD trolls.

KG

<b>"Hey! It compiles! Ship it!"</b>

Reply to Kemche
bront   03-26-2002 at 08:20:32 PM
- 0 +

Interesting that the article complains that the AXP 2000+ is compairing itself against a P4 Willy 2.0 GHZ, when it is compairing itself against a theoretacle 2.0 GHZ Athlon T-bird.

AMD needs to make it clearer what they are compairing to, and ultimately needs to find a better system for rating their CPUs.

Bad trolls Bad trolls... Whacha gonna do... Whacha gonna do when they post here too...

Reply to bront
Kennyshin   03-26-2002 at 08:20:38 PM
- 0 +

You don't have to give up what you already have and running. Just add a second or third or fourth or fifth system like I do. The computer I am using here has an Athlon AYHJA Thunderbird. I also have Athlon XP 1600+ though that system is somewhere close to the window, just sitting there. I remember there were always those Mac users saying how Macintosh is better than Windows-based 486 and Pentium systems.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal

Reply to Kennyshin
FatBurger   03-26-2002 at 08:25:28 PM
- 0 +

Windows XP and Tribes 2 both have SSE2, they've both been out for months (Tribes 2 for about a year), and those are two pieces of software I use very regularly.

Lists of programs with SSE2 optimizations aren't hard to find, I'd recommend you take a look for one before making assumptions.


Good quote from the article:

Quote :

"The fact is that AMD processors are quite efficient for lots of applications and do not need the steroids of hokey equivalency to deserve market respect."


Thanks, Meltdown :wink:

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by FatBurger on 03/26/02 11:26 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

Reply to FatBurger
Kennyshin   03-26-2002 at 08:26:10 PM
- 0 +

Partly I agree but I think competition is always good as long as one is ready for self-advancement using criticism. It's just a normal evolutionary process.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal

Reply to Kennyshin
AmdMELTDOWN   03-26-2002 at 08:26:44 PM
- 0 +

when you're right you're right, I removed the link to the Inquirer and replaced it with the company who actually wrote the article.

<A HREF="http://www.aberdeen.com/ab_company/hottopics/amd/default.htm" target="_new">here it is again.</A>

again, you have to register to read it.

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by AmdMELTDOWN on 03/26/02 02:29 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

Reply to AmdMELTDOWN
mbetea   03-26-2002 at 08:35:23 PM
- 0 +

still the article is pointless. even hardcore amd people around here have said that the pr system isn't good. that is about all this article said. and if that company took the time to actually read they would see that amd states themselves that the pr is based on the theoretical tbird performance. maybe you should consider building a fort or tree-house? something constructive to do with the ample amount of time you seem to have. your past few posts i find quite funny though. all of these articles are recent, but yet all they are talking about is things people have already debated/discussed months ago.

I run duals because i multitask between notepad, outlook express and winamp :lol:

Reply to mbetea
bront   03-26-2002 at 08:41:38 PM
- 0 +

Compairing what the Pentium will have vs what the Athlon DOES have doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Bad trolls Bad trolls... Whacha gonna do... Whacha gonna do when they post here too...

Reply to bront
Nikko   03-26-2002 at 08:41:52 PM
- 0 +

The bottom line here is that we all have access to the same information. We're all entitled to make decisions about what we buy and what companies we support. For those of you who choose to buy P4's, good for you. For me the P4 does not represent good value and it's made by a company I dislike. Therefore I will not buy it nor will I recommend it to anyone.

The Pentium 4 is really a highly overclocked VIA C3 with SSE2 and a heat spreader.

Reply to Nikko
FatBurger   03-26-2002 at 08:49:56 PM
- 0 +

That's fine with me, but you shouldn't say that the Athlon will run circles around an OCed P4 (which of course not everyone wants to overclock, in which case the P4 loses it's value), or that there are no SSE2 apps.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft

Reply to FatBurger
bront   03-26-2002 at 08:50:39 PM
- 0 +

Is there a particular reason you went from suposedly supporting AMD to supporting Intel rabidly?

You are making small blanket statements that show us nothing other than that you can read AMDmeltdown's posts and copy things from him. If you have actual support for your claims and ideas, please explain yourself.

Bad trolls Bad trolls... Whacha gonna do... Whacha gonna do when they post here too...

Reply to bront
Kennyshin   03-26-2002 at 09:32:30 PM
- 0 +

You've got some strange attitude to say so. Why is using a company's product necessarily an act supporting that company? Do you want THG to test AMD CPU only? I'm always more then ready to buy ANY AMD CPU that's really better than Intel Prestonia. Or, Prescott for that matter.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal

Reply to Kennyshin
Kennyshin   03-26-2002 at 09:36:30 PM
- 0 +

And while Pentium runs at 2400MHz and has 512KB L2, Athlon runs at just 1733MHz and has 256KB L2...

That's why I want a 130nm Athlon MP running at 2666MHz with 1024KB L2.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal

Reply to Kennyshin
Kennyshin   03-26-2002 at 09:48:11 PM
- 0 +

Well, I like Intel and I think it has been the leader of computer revolution for the last three decades. AMD is not competent enough yet to compete effectively against Intel.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal

Reply to Kennyshin
eden   03-26-2002 at 10:12:13 PM
- 0 +

Um like tons have always said, Athlons do not need oblivion speeds to compete. Their IPC is so high a 1.9GHZ is more than enough to compete a 2.4GHZ. When they reach P4 speeds, it means Intel would have a hard time to compete until a 3GHZ or above.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!

Reply to eden
AMD_Man   03-26-2002 at 10:24:28 PM
- 0 +

Please don't fall victim to MHz. But, then again, I want a Pentathlon.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

Reply to AMD_Man
mr_gobbledegook   03-26-2002 at 10:25:55 PM
- 0 +

LOL I'm not getting into this argument again ! Talk about bangin your head against a brick wall. Lets face it Mhz and PR ratings are both flawed.

<font color=purple>~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)</font color=purple>

Reply to mr_gobbledegook
eden   03-26-2002 at 10:28:38 PM
- 0 +

You know, if we never got the PR back, and we'd be comparing the top of the line processors i.e. 1.73GHZ AMD and 2.2GHZ Intel, then I'd guess we'd have a different view on how P4s lack competition per clock. But we forgot that when PR came so we focus on overall performance now. I mean without PR, seeing a 1.73GHZ competing a 2.2GHZ? AY.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!

Reply to eden
Quetzacoatl   03-26-2002 at 10:41:00 PM
- 0 +

To be honest, i'd rather see PR dropped completely, and other stats included instead. I think someone earlier insisted on placing the following stats. Mhz, Pipeline stages, IPC, and FSB. Sound like a better grading system? I think it is. Well...not for the average user, but us folks up here would appreciate it. Imagine buying that from the internet!

NEW NEW NEW!!!
The Athlon Special XP Millenium+
2.5GHz, 4stage, 400FSB...god I wish I knew the IPC for the real AXP(stupid mind blank =/)

HOT HOT HOT!!!
The Devasatator Titanium Pentium5 Ultra
10Ghz, 50stage, 1200FSB...I think I need to brush up on IPC for the PIV northwood as well =/

THAT says miles upon the "new" fakie processors. A picture is worth a thousand words. But dear god, imagine an Athlon with only 4 stages at 2.5Ghz. Par excellence! But then again, a 10Ghz PV with 50 pipeline stages. Now thats scaleability to the max! Heck, that's all Intel needs to sell to ANY pathetic enough customer. 10 to 2.5 Ghz...thats hard to fathom

"When there's a will, there's a way."

Reply to Quetzacoatl
Zlash   03-26-2002 at 10:47:54 PM
- 0 +

Amazing someone would attach thierselves to being meltdown's sidekick of stupidity.

<font color=red>:</font color=red> <font color=white>:</font color=white> <font color=blue>:</font color=blue>

Reply to Zlash
FatBurger   03-26-2002 at 10:57:16 PM
- 0 +

Quote :

When they reach P4 speeds, it means Intel would have a hard time to compete until a 3GHZ or above.



I can pretty much guarantee that when AMD hits 2.4GHz, Intel will have 3GHz and higher out.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft

Reply to FatBurger
Quetzacoatl   03-26-2002 at 10:59:27 PM
- 0 +

Exscuez-moi? Parlez-vous avec moi? Je crois que non. Mais, je parlais seulment de ordinature information.

Translation-
Excuse me? Are you speaking with me? I think not. But, I am only speaking about computers here.

I could care less about what AMDfagmaster has to say. It is worthwhile talking about how CPUs are graded and marked.

"When there's a will, there's a way."

Reply to Quetzacoatl
AMD_Man   03-26-2002 at 11:11:05 PM
- 0 +

Ahh, you know I think this is ridiculous, AMD, Intel, who cares? Just get what's good for you. All this bickering about who's toy (a.k.a. CPU) is better is a waste of time.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

Reply to AMD_Man
bront   03-26-2002 at 11:26:34 PM
- 0 +

Quote :

I'm always more then ready to buy ANY AMD CPU that's really better than Intel Prestonia. Or, Prescott for that matter.


What do CPUs that are not only not out yet but not going to be out for over a year an issue?

You made some dangerously closeminded posts about the AMD issue untill someone else spoke up and said exactly what several of us had been saying all along could be happening, and now you are making some very closeminded posts about Intel vs AMD.

AMD doesn't need to top Prescott yet, as it's not going to be out for a while. The AXP is near or at the top of the chain of currently available CPUs. With the coming T-bread, they could run into the lead at a good pace. And soon, with the Hammer, they could put a great distance between AMD and Intel. Intel is going to attempt to counter this with the 133 FSB. It looks good, and might put some serious muscle back into the P4. However, we'll have to wait and see till the silicon is in the socket how well they will both do, and how much it will cost the users to get that performance.

Bad trolls Bad trolls... Whacha gonna do... Whacha gonna do when they post here too...

Reply to bront
bront   03-26-2002 at 11:29:05 PM
- 0 +

Let's stop fighting about who killed who...

Oh, sorry... hehe :wink:

Bad trolls Bad trolls... Whacha gonna do... Whacha gonna do when they post here too...

Reply to bront
tlaughrey   03-26-2002 at 11:32:55 PM
- 0 +

Quote :

Well, I like Intel and I think it has been the leader of computer revolution for the last three decades. AMD is not competent enough yet to compete effectively against Intel.


Apparently AMD was competent enough to get you to buy 5 Athlons, right? But now they're not ... at least until T'bred comes out, huh. So do you switch allegiances every time a newer, faster processor comes out? I suppose next month you'll be telling all of us how great the T'bred and AMD are and how much Intel sucks.

<i>Money talks. Mine always likes to say "goodbye." :smile: </i>

Reply to tlaughrey
Matisaro   03-27-2002 at 12:06:28 AM
- 0 +

Quote :

Most desktops also will have HyperThreading and there'll be enough HyperThreading-optimized applications when the desktop HyperThreading-enabled Intel CPUs appear.




Bullshit, hyperthreading causes a performance LOSS on most desktop apps, and if you think everyone will just suddenly SUPPORT hyperthreading, your wrong, look how slow sse2 is adopted.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:

Reply to Matisaro
Kemche   03-27-2002 at 12:21:46 AM
- 0 +

I know competition is good but lets look at facts and not fictions. Please argue on fact, when people are trying to make a point give a reasonable argument, We know rayston works at Intel and would favor Intel but still he gives reasonable argument why his openion matters. On the other hand AmdMeltDown and other Intel/AMD trolls say something and don't have any bases on thier argument.

If they don't grow up and keep trying to put down other's product, then it's childish. I would consider their openion useless.

KG

<b>"Hey! It compiles! Ship it!"</b>

Reply to Kemche
zengeos   03-27-2002 at 12:23:39 AM
- 0 +

AMD only REALLY sucks to Kenny for one main reason ONLY.

That reason?

AMD finally laid down the law in Korea and made resellers abide by AMD's stated world-wide warranty policies. Up until recently, it seems, Koreans have received unfair warranties from AMD. Since that was abused, AMD is now making people adhere strictly to their warranties.

Koreans are all in a tizzy that they aren't getting special treatment from AMD anymore.

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!

Reply to zengeos
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