Great Article on AMD.

[Kemche]

<A HREF="http://www.penstarsys.com/editor/Today/amd3/index.html" target="_new">AMD Today!</A>

Good Read

KG

<b>"Hey! It compiles! Ship it!"</b>

 

[FatBurger]

Bump so I can read it tomorrow :tongue:

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft

 

[TheAntipop]

good call, procastination is always the best bet.

The holder of <i>this</i> pass is <b>exempt</b> from all forms of <font color=red>flaming</font color=red>.

 

[texas_techie]

very interesting. I pretty much sums up every major issue AMD faces, the marketplace and the future. Fairly unbiased.

i give it 4 out of 5 stars

Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.

 

[FatBurger]

I had to be at work at 6am this morning, so last night I wanted to get to bed instead of reading long articles.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft

 

[Schmide]

It has my vote for article of the quarter. It had a very good balance of history vs. projections. Slander was nonexistent. Very good use of compare and contrast showing the strengths and weaknesses of AMD and Intel. Slightly depressing in lieu of when we may see new chips for AMD and what they may cost.

All errors are undocumented features waiting to be discovered.

 

[ColdCathode]

Interesting article. Does it make anyone else want to puke that the success of the hammer is hinged on microsoft's ability to implement a 64 bit OS?

 

[TheAntipop]

Yea, but why do you think Microsoft has been under so much scrutiny for monopolization of the entire PC industry? Make no mistake, they control it, not the hardware manufactureres.

The holder of <i>this</i> pass is <b>exempt</b> from all forms of <font color=red>flaming</font color=red>.

 

[bront]

The future is not in the hands of MS if they CAN make the OS, the issue is if they WILL make the OS.

AMD continues to insist they are working on it, Intel says they aren't, and MS won't comment. So it's hard to say.

Bad trolls Bad trolls... Whacha gonna do... Whacha gonna do when they post here too...

 

[ColdCathode]

But the fact remains AMD is dependant on Microsoft as is 95% of the hw and sw manufactures. The clawhammer will never see light if microsoft doesnt want it to, and that kind of control over an industry is incredible to say the least.

 

[tlaughrey]

I also thought it was a good article, concentrating on technical matters and speculation about what the future holds, rather than who is better than whom. I really hope Microsoft supports the Hammer. It would be ashame to see it fail because of MS.

<i>Money talks. Mine always likes to say "goodbye." </i>

 

[Schmide]

Could become a package deal Xbox II and Windows x64. Could cause a renaming of AMD to Advanced Microsoft Devices.

All errors are undocumented features waiting to be discovered.

 

[eden]

Keep in mind, MS is NOT controlling the Hammer, AMD wants MS because they chose them. It does not mean MS is the life threat or life saver for AMD at all, they don't control them, but they do hold great potential.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!

 

[FatBurger]

Do you really think the Hammer could survive without a Windows OS?

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft

 

[ColdCathode]

The server processor would survive, but the desktop clawhammer would not. Do you really think AMD would release a processor that could only be run on a unix os? They would sell only a handful of chips to enthusiasts, making it a non-profitable venture. Microsoft holds all the cards, as always.

 

[eden]

Soy you're saying we need a new OS to run ClawHammer?
I think not. Even if the current times do not allow 64 bit computing, the 32-bit of Hammer is unrivaled and this is what mostly counts, given the fact 64-bit is not entirely needed for any home user. To me it doesn't matter a new OS 64 bit, it's the 32 bit behind Hammer that would get me to buy one.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!

 

[ColdCathode]

I actually wouldn't mind seeing Microsoft partner with AMD and throw some R&D money thier way. As a side effect, this would cause intel to once again take a serious look at linux. The end result would be two dominant processors and OS's. Never happen, but and interesting idea.

 

[ColdCathode]

Eden,
I dont think you understand what im saying. If amd wants the perfomance increase of a 64bit processor it needs windows support not the other way around. They didn't choose microsoft as there was no other alternative, and that was the point. I dont really mind MS controlling the OS market(i use mainly linux), but when they dictate the advancments of technologies outside of the OS arena there is a huge problem.

 

[eden]

Yes ok, I thought you said that the Hammer completly would die if MS doesn't agree on 64 bit. I do feel it would tremendously hurt AMD, but not to the point it ruins the Hammer. I mean the real deal here is its extreme computing experience. These chips will arguably change the way we compute today if AMD does it right.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!

 

[FatBurger]

I thought you said that the Hammer completly would die if MS doesn't agree on 64 bit.

And it will. I for one won't buy a 64-bit processor if I can only use 32-bits.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft

 

[Tiberius13]

And it will. I for one won't buy a 64-bit processor if I can only use 32-bits.

But what if that processor has a better price/performance ratio in 32 bit applications than the competition? Hammer should continue to go toe to toe with Intel processors for performance in the regular 32 bit applications we use today. It just boasts the added benefit of even greater performance when using 64 applications.

I think the real key is that the Hammer doesn't "lack" when it comes to 32 bit performance. If it does, AMD is in big trouble. Migration to a new OS platform is something that happens cyclically every few years. Even if MS exclusively goes to releasing 64 bit Operating Systems by the end of the year (which obviously it won't), it would take several years for such 64 bit based OS's to become the majority platform in the market. AMD is going 100% Hammer focused for it's top end processor by the end of the year! It MUST stand up to Intel performance in the 32 bit world. The 64 bit boost built in to the same small package should just be icing on the cake.

My personal belief is that Intel will be able to pass AMD in 32 bit performance shortly after the Hammer is released - but AMD won't let that gap be significant and will show a significant performance boost with 64 bit software.

Getting good support from Microsoft could mean the difference between standing still or even slipping in market share vs. having a killer product that is widely embraced as another 'Product of the Year' and continues AMD's growth in the processor market.

<font color=green><b>More salt than just a grain you will need with posts of mine. - Yoda©®</b></font color=green>

 

[mr_gobbledegook]

I personally think x86-64 will fail if does not Microsoft support it...sure theres Linux but that will be very limiting for AMD. If they want x86-64 to become the standard Microsoft has to be on board.

Another question is will hardware be supported ??...will manufacturers have to release x86-64 drivers for all thier hardware ?...will you be able to run 32 bit drivers on a 64 bit OS ? how 'seamless' is this transition to x86-64 really gonna be ?

<font color=purple>~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)</font color=purple>

 

[Schmide]

I can’t imagine it being that difficult. It’s not like you’re going to a whole new type of address space. I mean it’s different, but its nothing like migrating to a virtual memory space from the Segment:Offset crap of the 16bit days. We're talking a few sign extension checks and updates to some constant values.

But then again we’re talking about Microsoft.

All errors are undocumented features waiting to be discovered.

 

[IIB]

And it will. I for one won't buy a 64-bit processor if I can only use 32-bits.

Hav you lost it?
I mean you do know the very Limited benefits of 64 bit for the Home user? only if you recompile code to 64 bit then you can enjoy some preformace increse this is due to extra registers and 64bit ALUs (aswell as some optimization for the CPUs front end architecture). this is said to give around 10% preformance increse...

its other improvments in the Hammer which will make it a solid preformer... not x86-64...

if the ClawHammer 3400+ outpreforms any Pentium 4 by the end of the year in 32bit apps (BTW there is no reason 32bit apps would run slower on the Hammer...) on any Windows 32bit OS you still wouldnt consider buying it?

This post is best viewed with common sense enabled<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by iib on 03/28/02 11:48 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[FatBurger]

But what if that processor has a better price/performance ratio in 32 bit applications than the competition?

That is a very, very, very big "if". I really don't think that the Hammer will be as cheap as everyone assumes, though I could be wrong. If it isn't, then AMD's advantage without 64-bit is gone.

if the ClawHammer 3400+ outpreforms any Pentium 4 by the end of the year in 32bit apps (BTW there is no reason 32bit apps would run slower on the Hammer...) on any Windows 32bit OS you still wouldnt consider buying it?

<b>If</b> the Hammer outperforms Intel's best (which it very possibly will), and <b>if</b> the Hammer isn't too costly for simply a 32-bit CPU (which I doubt), and if I feel like an upgrade and have the cash, then I'll be the first in line. Well, probably not, but I'll definitely get one.

BTW, I almost said "cache" instead of "cash"

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft