As stupid as this sounds, I think we should open up a small thread with some unbiased opinions. Be it as it may, there are still people who would rather buy a Dell than take the time to do the least bit of research. Thus, I have thought it may be a good idea to compile to very basic "homegrown OEM systems". Now, i'm not talking about major overclocking or tweaking, but hardy reliable parts thrown together for friends/families/small business...ect...

First, lets try for 4 systems, 2 AMD and 2 Intel. One barebones running around $750-1200 and one high end system running from $1400-2000. I'm open to any suggestions and would like some thoughts on the matter. Just please don't respond with "Get A PIV 1.6a and overclock it to 3Ghz...I don't think that is going to be common anytime soon =/. I guess the system should include a tower (duh), monitor, keyboard/mouse, speakers, and OS...other than that, lets just go for best performance for the price! HAVE FUN EVERYONE!!!

"When there's a will, there's a way."

low end... hmm... lets see *sarcasm on high*

first we need an integrated chipset... the more integrated the better.
graphics sound lan. all good.
then we get some mid range p4... or the new p4 celleron when it finally arrives, preferably a 423 chipset & cpu.
pop in 128mb of good old Cas3 PC133 sdram, a 15" monitor, crap printer, crap keyboard, crap mouse, low speed cd/dvd drive, cd burner < 12x without any burnproof technology, tiny poorly ventilated case with minimal expansion opportunities, top it off with a 5400rpm 20gb Hdd and we are done!

hmmmm
on second thought anything i think of as "decent" is unlikely to ever be "OEM"

thats why we have specialty shops that cater to the individual, shops that build what u say and self constructed PC's.

Morally destitute, Emotionally bankrupt but a proud and respected member of Toms Forums!

<A HREF="http://www.oilsurvey.com/php/link.php3?CoId=1677&path=protection__anti-flame_.html" target="_new">These</A> look good, you'll probably need something similar.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft

heck! I would be happy to pay someone for this kind of help. Not the advice of a salesman who knows nothing.
I think this is great Idea, I also think you are wrong about people not wanting to do the research. Trying to figure all this stuff out is what makes a person want to build their own.
I try to read as many PC articles and as much on THG as time will allow.
I want the best performance for the price! Please start with the High End systems. More specific how-a-bout these two. One AMD and One Intel. Both systems cost around $2,400.00 give or take a couple of hundred.

Why are the bus clock speeds so different and why the differance in Primary and secondary cache?
Please Start with these two questions. Much thanks, MM
(MICRONpc)
Operating System System Model
Windows 2000 Professional, Service Pack 2 micronpc.com

Processor
1600 megahertz AMD Athlon XP
"(This a 1900+ clocked at 1600mhz, correct?)"
32 kilobyte primary memory cache
256 kilobyte secondary memory cache Board: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. 761-686B
Bus Clock: 133 megahertz
BIOS: Award Software International, Inc. 6.00 PG 10/30/2001
Drives Memory Modules
100.02 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
96.32 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space
_NEC DV-5800A [CD-ROM drive]
_NEC NR-7700A [CD-ROM drive]
3.5" format removeable media [Floppy drive]

WDC WD1000BB-32CCB0 (100.03 GB) [Hard drive] -- drive 0 1024 Megabytes Installed Memory
512 Megabyte Module Size - 2 Installed
Local Drive Volumes
c: (on drive 0) 100.02 GB 96.32 GB free

Network Drives
Controllers Printers
Primary IDE Channel [Controller]
Secondary IDE Channel [Controller]
VIA Bus Master IDE Controller Samsung ML-4500 Series on LPT1:
Windows NT Fax Driver on MSFAX:

Monitor:LCD: 17.4" viewing
Display
NVIDIA GeForce3 Ti 500 (Micron) [Display adapter]
Bus Adapters Multimedia
None detected Avance AC'97 Audio for VIA (R) Audio Controller
Communications Other Devices
U.S. Robotics 56K Fax PCI [Modem]
3Com EtherLink 10/100 PCI For Complete PC Management NIC (3C905C-TX)
USB Root Hub
USB Root Hub
VIA USB Universal Host Controller
VIA USB Universal Host Controller

"Sony:"
Operating System System Model
Windows XP Home Edition Sony Corporation PCV-RX682(UC) 28440930

Processor a Main Circuit Board
2250 megahertz Intel Pentium 4
8 kilobyte primary memory cache
512 kilobyte secondary memory cache Board: ASUSTeK Computer INC. P4B266LM REV 1.xx
Bus Clock: 100 megahertz
BIOS: Award Software, Inc. ACPI BIOS Revision 1002 12/18/2001
Drives Memory Modules
122.94 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
117.79 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

PIONEER DVD-ROM DVD-117R [CD-ROM drive]
PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-104 [CD-ROM drive]
3.5" format removeable media [Floppy drive]

Maxtor 4G120J6 (122.94 GB) [Hard drive] -- drive 0 1024 Megabytes Installed Memory
512 Megabyte Module Size - 2 Installed
Local Drive Volumes

c: (on drive 0) 16.04 GB 10.92 GB free
d: (on drive 0) 106.90 GB 106.87 GB free
Network Drives

Controllers Printers
Intel(r) 82801BA Bus Master IDE Controller
Primary IDE Channel [Controller]
Secondary IDE Channel [Controller] None detected
Display: 15" LCD.
Display
NVIDIA GeForce2 Ti 64MB (Sony) [Display adapter]
NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 Model 64 (Sony) [Display adapter]
(why are there 2 adapters with this sony)

The bus speeds are different because of the design of the processors, the intel chip is much more memory bandwidth dependant than the athlon. A p4 going from rdram to sdram takes what a 30-40% performance hit?

An athlon going from ddr to sdram takes maybe a 15-25% performance hit.(depending on the chipset).

The difference between primary and secondary cache is just a clocktick or two longer to retrieve data, the cache design is directly related to the processors design, so the fact a p4 has an 8k l1 cache where the athlon has much more than that, does not neccisarily mean the p4 sucks ass.

So just concern yourself with overall performance, and dont dig too deep into the numbers without a full understanding of what they mean.

The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark

hmmmm
on second thought anything i think of as "decent" is unlikely to ever be "OEM"

"I guess I should stop looking and start building." MM

"A p4 going from rdram to sdram takes what a 30-40% performance hit?"

The P4 has the 100mhz bus and ddr memory, It was my "very poor" understanding that the bus clock is what creates the performance in a system. I have not checked the chip set, I should have done that first, but I also thought that the newer chipsets allowed a faster bus communication, so would that make this chip set older.
Have I missed the boat on everything?
The GA 7DX has the AMD 761 and via 686b Chip set.
Thanks so very much for your help.

The p4 has a 100mhz bus quad pumped to 400mhz, and it runs off rdram(for best performance) which is 400mhz ddr@800mhz, this gives the best performance.

THen theres the p4 ddr which has thre 400fsb downconnected to a 133x2 pc2100 ddr bus

and then theres sdram which has the 400mhz fsb downconnected to 133/100 mhz sdram.




The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark