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AMD vs Intel Poll - Reply if you agree to the post

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April 3, 2002 10:57:52 PM

You pay more for less if you buy Intel. Intel is just a "designer label"



AMD VS INTEL - AMD anyday
April 3, 2002 11:07:08 PM

its a matter of opinion. what are you trying to prove? i do agree with you however
April 3, 2002 11:12:50 PM

Just trying to see how long this post can build up

AMD VS INTEL - AMD anyday
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April 3, 2002 11:14:31 PM

That really depends what you are buying the processors for, and what purpose you have for the procesors. Also, Intel and AMD each have strengths and weaknesses. Intel has efficient scaleability, but they need a significant clock speed margin over AMD to be competative. AMD loses scaleability from a shorter pipeline, but have much higher efficiency per mhz for the most part.

I used to be extremely biased towards AMD because they offered better efficieny for the cost, but I realized some important facts. Intel doesn't exactly build crap, they just have some expensive models and others which can be overclocked to higher levels. Also, Intel has the advantage of better features, such as built in thermal throttling. The bad thing I guess, would be Intel jumping from socket 370, to 423, to 478 in a period of one year. Bad for upgrading. The choice is yours, but look at the facts before you make a quick decision.

"When there's a will, there's a way."
April 3, 2002 11:22:51 PM

There's one clear advantage in my opinion and that's on AMD's side. Performance/Cost ratio

AMD VS INTEL - AMD anyday
April 3, 2002 11:33:03 PM

Interestingly enough, no AMD user on this board has been able to prove that their AMD can match my $140 P4 ($133 now). Perhaps price/performance (for a small segment of the market, at least) is not as clear as you think?

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
April 3, 2002 11:43:08 PM

That's because, altough someone may have an equivalent AMD processor, they will definitely not have an identical rest of system setup - they may have a different graphics card, hard drive etc. Tom's CPU Guide proves you wrong - look at all the AMD vs Intel articles and the benchmarks

AMD VS INTEL - AMD anyday
April 3, 2002 11:58:20 PM

I'm not an idiot, I know exactly what I'm saying. My claim is that my OCed P4 will perform better than any air-cooled Athlon, and nobody has even tried to prove me wrong (except for one link to an entry in an overclocking database, which wasn't the point of my challenge).

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
April 4, 2002 12:01:59 AM

Everybody, notice how he says "overclocked". Did I mention overclocking?

AMD VS INTEL - AMD anyday
April 4, 2002 12:05:11 AM

yep. your probably right.
i see it often enough in australia.

for the high end, a 2.2A or 2.4A upon first release is inexcess of AU$1200, plus 300+ for a rdram mobo, while the top line XP's are around 600 to 700 and the mobo's are about 300 for the kt333. (rdram + pc2700 are approx on price parity over here currently)

when u get down to the mid to budget PC's the differences pretty much dissapear in the 'noise'
of varying prices for other components.


Anything i think of as 'Decent' is unlikely to ever become 'OEM'
April 4, 2002 12:14:26 AM

But I don't think you can have your cake and eat it. AMDs sold amost exclusively in the TBird days for their overclocking abilities. AXP is overclockable, but it gets harder and there is a little less headroom currently.

The point Fats is making is that in terms of value for money, he has a stock hardware installation (all retail) overclocked and stable that will beat out any equivalent price AXP setup. This is a big shift in the base from a year ago.

Sure no-one mentioned overclocking previously, but it is still a valid arguement if you are on a budget and can 'safely' get more for less.... AMD supporters (me included) hammered this point home endlessley previously when the shoe was on the other foot.....

-* <font color=red> !! S O L D !! </font color=red> *-
To the gentleman in the pink Tutu
April 4, 2002 12:18:19 AM

My poll is looking good so far! Anyone else? Let me hear your views

AMD VS INTEL - AMD anyday
April 4, 2002 12:24:44 AM

Put it this way.....for me price completely dictates what i buy. Therefore i have an Athlon XP. If the situation was completely reversed then i'd buy a Pentium 4.

Now in the unlikey situation that prices were on par, it would fall back on the cheaper 'total' hardware solution. (This is assuming performance is the same. If its not, i'd obviously go for the better performing system for the same price.)
April 4, 2002 12:31:46 AM

Looked in a catalogue and found the P4 2.2 for £515.83 and the XP2000+ for £235.00. Pretty much says it all doesn't it? Buy AMD and if you want faster, overclock it! Simple as that? Oh, forgot, save a lot too!

AMD VS INTEL - AMD anyday
April 4, 2002 1:06:22 AM

First of all, you're getting majorly ripped off on that 2.2. That price equals almost $750US, which is like $1200CAN (I live in Canada). I can get a 2.2 for about $800 and then after that price cut, it'll be around... $350 Canadian dollar that is!! I don't know about you guys but that doesn't sound bad to me. I know that the AXP processor is superior in many ways, but I think you guys are overinflating the prices a bit.
a b à CPUs
April 4, 2002 1:41:17 AM

It is all a matter of personal preference In MY OPINION...
Some like Ford, Some like Chevy. Some like Mercedes. Now they will all get you where you want to go. It just depends on what you are willing to pay for the ride.

Now I personally use Intel on Asus motherboards. This is my choice. I can afford it. And do not consider it a waste of money. Intel products hold there value better than AMD products. So when I sell my old used cpus I get more of my money back. Which means the new cpu cost less. I never buy the top of the line model. That is a waste of money.This goes for Amd as well as Intel.
Now the only thing I keep hearing is that AMD cost less. SO WHAT. A YUGO cost less too. Are you driving one??? probably not. Why???? Because you bought what you wanted to buy.

And yes it is as simple as that. Buy what you want to buy .

Asus tusl2-c
P3@1178
256mb ram
G3 Ti 200
6783 3dm2k1
<A HREF="http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=2629661" target="_new">http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=2629661&lt;/A>

I aint signing nothing!!!
April 4, 2002 1:54:08 AM

I want to try FatBurger's challenge in the summer when I have the time, but not because I think AMD is better, but because I like a good, fun friendly challenge.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
April 4, 2002 2:30:05 AM

Run that system at stock speeds, give me a cost, and I can no doubt beat its performance for less using an AMD CPU =)

I like both AMD and Intel, although I have opted for all AMD since the Athlon came out (and all Intel before that since pentium days).

The price performance ratio is an important factor. I dont understand however any claim that says "I got one specific chip and I am running it out of spec so AMD does not have a bettr price performance". This is rubbish. While I agree with you that for someone like you or I a P4 1.6A IS CERTAINLY a great value, most people dont overclock and on top of that you are talking about ONE CPU out of the many Intel makes.

Intel certainly does charge more for the equivalent product, that is the advantage of being the industry leader. I do not fault Intel for this in any way, it is a common proactice that industry leaders can, do, and even maybe should charge more.

So in answer to the original post, yes Intel gets a little extra just cuz it says Intel on it, just like Kleenex gets a few pennies extra for tissues or Heinze gets a few extra cents for ketchup....

Jesus saves, but Mario scores!!!
April 4, 2002 2:36:25 AM

The AthlonXP's low price isn't the only thing that makes it so unique, it's the fact it holds performance above that and quality, compared to what low prices would usually indicate on a product. The outstanding performance these processors give, as well as the relatively low price they have, in mobo prices and RAM equals value for all those who are low on money, LIKE ME. If you may, come see Canadian pricing, and see how much we save on AXPs to know the fact that P4 systems are still far more expensive and lower performing for the price in CDN. I could save up to 100$ CDN, put it towards more RAM and have a system that still performs better.

BTW if AMD was out, and Intel was alone, and they would start charging what they want, such as double the pricing, how in the world would they expect revenues? People say if one company is alone it charges, but when those prices that were high already, go astronomical from 600$ US to 1200$, WHO other than Dell zealots would buy such? That is what also continues the price drops, and not just AMD.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
April 4, 2002 2:51:33 AM

Bullshit. You can't possibly get a 2.2Ghz PIVa in Canada for 350. That's just not possible or even likely. The AXP is much better per dollar. Hell, you can get an AXP 1800+ for like $120 which practically can beat all the PIV 1.4-2.0 Ghz and competative to the 1.8PIVa. Don't forget to, the average user, i'd have to say ? won't have the confidence to overclock a 1.6PIVa up to 2.2Ghz. They'd be better off getting an AXP for the cost.

"When there's a will, there's a way."
April 4, 2002 2:53:52 AM

120$ CDN or what?
It's 230$ last I read in Canada here! Still much less than the 1.6A!!

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
April 4, 2002 2:55:15 AM

The 1.6A is basically the new 300A. (For those too young to know what a 300A is I suggest a Yahoo or Google search. The Celeron 300A overclocked to 450MHz 99.999% of the time with complete stability. Some got it to over 500MHz.) There is nothing to fear but fear itself.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
April 4, 2002 3:00:52 AM

Well it was 99.999% of 300A made in a certain factory (malaysia??) that were great. I had one myself as the P2 450 was over $400 at the time and the celeron was about $100 =) Easy and stable OC no matter the board cuz it WAS a P2 100mhz FSB that they burnt the second cache unit out of cuz the older celerys didnt have cache as I am certain you remember....

Jesus saves, but Mario scores!!!
April 4, 2002 3:02:42 AM

Yes but the 300A's performance was downright crappy, and even at 450MHZ (I don't find so much impressive of that but anyway back then it probably was) it was probably not better than a P2 450MHZ or 400MHZ.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
April 4, 2002 3:04:14 AM

Just about all of them could hit 450MHz, regardless of the factory. The few special ones could hit over 500MHz. Those were good days.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
April 4, 2002 3:06:02 AM

Quote:
Yes but the 300A's performance was downright crappy, and even at 450MHZ (I don't find so much impressive of that but anyway back then it probably was) it was probably not better than a P2 450MHZ or 400MHZ.

You could not be more wrong about this one. The Celeron 300A was the first processor to have full-speed on-die L2 cache. When overclocked to 450MHz it was actually faster than a Pentium II-450.

-Raystonn



= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
April 4, 2002 3:06:41 AM

Indeed, I loved that CPU, I kept it for as long as any other I have had =) I am an upgrade freak cuz I sell custom machines/networks and always run across someone that wants a used system. Mine is usually a used system within 6 months =)

Jesus saves, but Mario scores!!!
April 4, 2002 3:12:56 AM

Try telling that to the entire world of fearful computer users.

"When there's a will, there's a way."
April 4, 2002 3:14:49 AM

hey ray....
way back in the good ond days....
do u remember if the p2-300 (66mhz bus on LX mobo) was multiplier locked? and when did the lock come onto the scene?

Anything i think of as 'Decent' is unlikely to ever become 'OEM'
April 4, 2002 3:16:28 AM

O. I meant to say $120 U.S.

Still, I would never get a 1.6a and oc it...i'm not a big Intel fan, but in the same sense, i'm trying to show that i'm not biased against Intel. They just have some expensive processors Imho. Really, they sucking up money with the gay 2.2Ghz PIVa. Too bad most people don't know you can oc it to 2.2Ghz not that hard.

"It's 230$ last I read in Canada here! Still much less than the 1.6A!!"
Yeah, i'd be happier just getting an AXP 1700-1900+. They are all good. Heh, I laugh everytime I see my friend, stuck with a PIV 1.4...its slow as hell...especially with PC-600 RDRAM hehehe :o  Gotta hate dells.

"When there's a will, there's a way."
April 4, 2002 3:18:06 AM

Was it 1997 or 1998? Intel realized they were screwing themselves with the super Celeron and the "weak" P2. Poor Intel. Then the Katmai came...ho boy... did the boys at Intel have fun facing the Athlon in 1999.

"When there's a will, there's a way."
April 4, 2002 5:21:50 AM

LoL......oh yea! the good 'ol days!

BTW im running my Celery 300A @ 450Mhz stock voltage and HSF as my File, Print, and Internet Server now.....thing never crashes, hicups, reboots itself nothing....its been goign now ever since i put it together as a server (as it WAS my primary computer before i upgraded to my AXP 1600+ now OC'd to 1900+) but yea......shes strong...and yes shes a Mallay chip.......i put my Celery up against my buddies P2-450Mhz machine before.........my SiSoft Sandra scores were higher, my memory Benchamrk was higher....and my 3D Mark score was higher! We had the same Motherboard and both systems had the same video card and same 64MB Ram DIMMS @ 100Mhz CL2...

But now, my AXP system is FAR superior.....this thing ALSO never crashes, hicups, etc......this SiS735 chipset is amazing, ive thrown everything at it (except the kitchen sink) and it runs!!! i had a VooDoo PCI card in my Celery before i had a real 3D Accelerator....and sometimes the system would crash....i diagnosed it a prob. with the BX chipset......anyways, i threw it in my AXP system...NO PROBLEM what so ever........both had Win2K......same drivers etc......anyways u get my point! =)

-MeTaL RoCkEr

My <font color=red>Z28</font color=red> can take your <font color=blue>P4</font color=blue> off the line!
April 4, 2002 5:50:21 AM

Quote:
hey ray....
way back in the good ond days....
do u remember if the p2-300 (66mhz bus on LX mobo) was multiplier locked? and when did the lock come onto the scene?

If memory serves correctly, all processors manufactured August 1998 and later were locked. This included all Pentium II 350MHz processors and up. It may have included a few slower models as well that were manufactured after this date.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
April 4, 2002 6:03:14 AM

as i said before, you can not base the price/performance depending on the overclocking, this point only apply with expert users who overclock their machines, but in general no one overclocks (maybe only 5% or less) and according to this fact you have to base your comparision

wish if there was UnDo in the life
April 4, 2002 6:10:03 AM

Are we talking about price/performance ratio for enthusiasts or price/performance ratio for the general non-savvy public? For enthusiasts nothing currently beats the Pentium 4 1.6A.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
April 4, 2002 6:32:25 AM

we are talking about general users, the guy in his first post did not ask which price/performance with overclocking is better, he asked general question and thus we have to reply in general.

we all know that 1.6A compared to 1600+ is better in overclocking and thus price/performance, but this was not the point the poster meant.

Meanwhile you can not consider the whole public are not savvy since they do not overclock, the company who own 10s or 100s computer which have important data are not willing to overclock their machine even if there is a computer genius running and maintaining their machines.

therefore the point of price/performance for P4A series overclocked apply for a very very limited users

wish if there was UnDo in the life
April 4, 2002 11:00:11 AM

Quote:
Interestingly enough, no AMD user on this board has been able to prove that their AMD can match my $140 P4 ($133 now). Perhaps price/performance (for a small segment of the market, at least) is not as clear as you think?


I linked you to an aircooled 1700+ running at 1.93ghz burger, which would out perform your p4, and cost 40 less, have a nice day though. :-)

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
April 4, 2002 11:00:58 AM

Quote:
I'm not an idiot, I know exactly what I'm saying. My claim is that my OCed P4 will perform better than any air-cooled Athlon, and nobody has even tried to prove me wrong (except for one link to an entry in an overclocking database, which wasn't the point of my challenge).


What was the point, that a member of thg have this chip, I proved it existed what more do you want?

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
April 4, 2002 11:25:30 AM

Guess it is a matter of personal preference. After reading the various 37 or so replies to my post so far I still would go for AMD. Its like the BMW vs Mercedes scenario - The 2 biggest car manufacturers in Germany but still a matter of preference. In my opinion, BMW is AMD and Mercedes is Intel.

AMD VS INTEL - AMD anyday
April 4, 2002 11:43:07 AM

Again you're doing the same reply-to threaded mode, Fatty only said that once and repeated to someone else but didn't say it in a way that is targetted!

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
April 4, 2002 11:44:52 AM

I'm afraid you were wrong, our school comp room has P3 450s, and when inspecting the BIOS, the main menu had a CPU Clock Speed option (wow how obvious) where you can easily overclock it. There you can augment the multiplier IIRC, not the bus though.
So I dunno how P2 350s were locked and not this P3 450.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
April 4, 2002 12:28:23 PM

Well, there were a few different generations of PII/PIII's. There was the Klamath, Deschutes, Katmai, Coppermine, and Tualatin, in that order. There might have been one in between Deschutes and Katmai, but I can't remember quite what it was.

Sometimes you'd have overlapping speed grades from one generation to the next (there was a 300MHz Klamath and also a 300MHz Deschutes, both 66MHz FSB; Deschutes simply required a lower voltage). It's most likely that the multiplier lock didn't get implemented with a specific speed grade, but rather with a specific core generation. Unfortunately I don't know what specific generation first had the multiplier lock.

<i>If a server crashes in a server farm and no one pings it, does it still cost four figures to fix?
April 4, 2002 1:34:29 PM

The Fighting will never stop, Don't you know that ? I prefer AMD only cause of Price, for cheap you can buy a nice Setup....
Intel is too big, they will never die out or anything....the only way this will stop is if AMD Shuts down or something... There will always be an argument or a difference between something..
Alot of kids in my school are always saying crap about Microsoft, and making fun of them..and saying how there products suck!, I just tell them the same thing over and over, I would like to see you INVENT something Better... I guess they think it's so easy to build an OS, in that case, buy a Programing language and build your own OS.. These people make me sick...

Measure Twice, Cut Once!!
April 4, 2002 2:43:32 PM

It's the same architecture. Why pay more for the same architecture (x86 architecture). How about we compare the G4 to the x86? That would be more interesting! Or compare the g4 to the mips architecture. How about a spark station vs the imac? or spark station vs the pc. Or better yet the silicon graphics server (thing is about the same size as the apple's cube but shaped weirder) vs the g4. Or even alpha. can't forget alpha cpu's.

common people, make an interesting post besides the boreing intel vs amd nonsense. educate yourself and others and talk about the architecture. Learn about data prefetching and pipelining and what L1, L2, L3 and TLB is and how it works. How virtual memory works and how it relates to the TLB (translation lookup block - i do beleive). How the virtual address is translated to fit in the physical address. Obviously virtual memory is much larger then physical L2 cache. So how does it work? You would be amazed at the simple basic algorithms that are used to do this stuff. It's not magic and i know that for a fact. It's just pure genious.

All of you are geeks on this forum. Don't ya wanna know? You talk about L2 and 32bits and prefetching and whatnot .. well what is it? You can easily lookup most of this stuff.

Instead of this intel vs amd. Talk about beating an already dead horse.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
April 4, 2002 2:51:31 PM

“There was the Klamath, Deschutes, Katmai, Coppermine, and Tualatin, in that order. There might have been one in between Deschutes and Katmai, but I can't remember quite what it was”

No in my knowledge. Correct order and no one between Deschutes and Katmai.

Pentium II up to 333 MHz of frequency uses the 66 MHz bus frequency, while from the version at 350 MHz they use the bus at 100 MHz.

PII 300 MHz Multiplier unlocked
PII 333 MHz Multiplier not sure
PII 350 MHz Multiplier locked

From: <A HREF="http://www.hwupgrade.com/overclock/cpu/index9.html" target="_new">http://www.hwupgrade.com/overclock/cpu/index9.html&lt;/A>

“Pentium II 350 and 400 Mhz CPUs manufactured before August 1998 have the
multiplier locked”

“In summer 1998, too, the production of Klamath CPUs has been discontinued, as Intel has decided to go on only with Deshutes CPUs; due to the increasing demand for CPU at 266 and 300 Mhz, Intel put on the market CPU with 266 and 300 MHz of clock and Deshutes Core”
April 4, 2002 3:31:33 PM

Quote:
I proved it existed


No, you proved that someone knows how to add a CPU to a database. Whether it exists is another story, and whether it would actually outperform my 1.6A is also another story (although it should).

My challenge was to registered THGC members to show benchmarks from their own system.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
a b à CPUs
April 4, 2002 4:37:29 PM

Intel overcharges for a processor that underperforms. Having said that, the best value for overclockers is the P4 1.6A because it consistantly hits 2.4GHz. The Athlon needs 2GHz to match it, but most XP's cant even hit 1900MHz. The situation should change with the release of the Thoroughbred, but until then, I'll go with Fatburger. I only have until the end of the month to make my purchase, so it looks like AMD, by delaying thier latest release, has lost a customer and supporter for the time being.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
April 4, 2002 4:42:25 PM

Hey, its the benchmarks that count! Knowing the CPU inside out is pointless if the performance is nothing to be proud of. I think most people will prefer to talk about CPUs and there performance and price rather than CPUs and their architecture - Can you imagine yourself walking into a store and asking about a CPU's architecture!

AMD VS INTEL - AMD anyday
April 4, 2002 5:14:30 PM

Can you imagine going to a job interview and the guy asks you a questions about this stuff!?

In order to go to the store and buy this stuff you need a job first. If you can tell and explain to your boss of why a sparc station would be better over a G4 or why the company shouldn't purchase this cpu because it lacks the architectual advantage over another processor, or when your boss tells you to upgrade this computer now with a pentium IV when it's an old pentium computer and impossible to upgrade, it would be nice to explain the architectual differences and based on facts you can explain why you can't upgrade it. Trust me, management is not smart and whining and saying "oh well it won't fit" as they always ask why and then say to just do it. Saving yourself time and frustration. Or even impress the boss that yes you know what your talking about and you know your stuff. Hence raise time.

there are tons of reasons to know this stuff... Operating System programming? guess what you have to know before you even touch it? yep, the architecture your programming it for! This IS a computer forum is it not? Tell me no one here would love to get there hands on programming there own operating system? What about just general programming? Still need to know your targeted platform.

This isn't about going to the store! this is aboute ducated yourself, thinking for yourself, impressing your boss to get that big pay raise, and bringing yourself up to a point where you can maybe even start your own business. And it all starts with the basics of understanding what you know.

Yes i have used this arguement before and yes it will help a great deal to actual know what your talking about!!!

If you prefer to walk in ignorance thats your choice. But the competition is feirce out there and you don't stand a chance as long as you don't know jack. If you're young, the younger you are to learn this stuff the better the advantage you have over your competition. I started when i was 16 so it's never too early.

Assuming your seeking this type of carreer in computers. if not then thats cool too ... speaking to the general public also.

ok done ranting ...

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
April 4, 2002 5:23:36 PM

OK, point made and taken in :) 

AMD VS INTEL - AMD anyday
!