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Since, my previous 50" projection TV was killed by Katrina I'm in the market for a new TV. Right now I'm researching and debating on the pros/cons of HDTV, EDTV, Plasma and LCD TV options. 42" or 50" are the most likely sizes I'll purchase. Distance to seating area is 8'+ I've been doing some of my own research, but wanted some opinions from you guys. Most I'll spend is $2-3K, but I'd like to stay under $2K to allow for a better surround sound system. So...
1. Plasma or LCD? Or should I stick with a projection TV?
2. Good mfrs? I've read great things about Panasonic, Fujitsu and Sony plasmas - other recommendations?
3. Good online e-tailers for these types of TVs?

let me know what you think on these or any other comments related to a new TV purchase right now...

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Most people I know who are heavy into AV skip the marketing and go straight for a good projector, which you can easily pick up for under 2k.

There are some downfalls, lamp going out, having a slightly darker room, etc.

If you get LCD, you need to really pay attention to the warranty. If the LCDs have problems, you might be SOL depending on the warranty.

HDTVs are coming down, but 2007 I believe is when all TVs go digital, so that might factor in eventually. HDTVs are good, I don't prefer wide screen though.

I'd stick with either a projector is that's feasible, or a regular HDTV. The LCD and Plasma are still over rated and no one really knows how long the things will last anyhow. LCD monitors have a lifetime of 3-10 years, can't imagine a TV being much better.

Reply to riser

The new gen Panasonic Plasmas have an expected 60,000 hour timeframe until 50% degradation in picture birghtness. That is double the previous gen and is good for 8 hours of TV/day for 20 years. Most of the other plasmas are good for 30,000hrs - about 10 years of 8hrs/day. This tells me that some of the longevity issues are getting fixed and at least Plasma is approaching or exceeding standard CRT for longevity. Thanks for the heads up on the LCD warranty.

I move every 2-3 years so a projector/screen setup isn't what I'm really looking for - I want something that is more mobile.

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Reply to Rugger

I will never understand the hype behind LCD TVs and regular large TVs (I guess it's what you call projection TVs). First of all, LCD TVs have horrible interpolation, and when I walk into my local Futureshop (BestBuy-like) and look at some of the videos shown on them, I can't understand how people fall for the horrible screen quality, which actually has serious problems displaying readable text due to resizing and interpolation issues. Not to mention the response time issues, and the angle of vision, which I can't fathom how one would consider such a device in a family room.
Which also brings me to the projection TVs, the one thing I never grasped why people bought them. They are quite frankly horrible. Image quality is bad, scanlines abound and angle of vision that leaves you needing some sort of safety belt on your sofa to hold you from moving ever so slightly.

Plasma IMO, if it weren't for its major flaw, would have long been the winner.
Angles of vision that match CRT TVs, image quality way beyond anything out there in displays, colors that are vibrant and even have a certain immersion effect, and response times rivaling CRTs. I hope one day they will do something to arrange that burnout issue, or create warranties that cover against those for at least 5 years. That would make Plasmas very viable and ultimately the best compromise IMO. And any logical person would know that the sound system that comes with a TV is generally adequate, but nowhere excellent, so you'd wanna invest in a real external sound system if you want good audio.

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Reply to Eden

In reading up on the new gen. plasma TVs coming out.. interesting stuff:

With average viewing of 4-6 hours per day, the plasma will reach its half brightness level in 12-17 years. That is very similar to a conventional CRT.

Your elevation at 7,100 feet should not be a problem. NEC rate's their plasmas to 9000 feet and Pioneer's are rated to 7500 feet. Sony also has a small offering of plasma designed for altitudes greater than 7500 feet.

You have to buy a special plasma TV to start getting up in elevation like Santa Fe or Denver. The plasma display has to work harder to cool the screen, so it can burn out faster or the fans will be louder trying to keep it cool.

Just some other things...

Looks like the standard HDTV would probably be the best bet.. it's been tested. Maybe in a few years switching to a plasma might be worth it..

Reply to riser

The Toshiba projection TV that I had, displayed a really good picture, but there were definitely some viewing angle issues that were annoying. That's why I'm leaning towards plasma right now. I'd agree that the LCDs still aren't up to par with viewing angles and picture quality and that's why I'm heavily leaning towards Plasma - EDTV or HDTV. For sound, I'll never be happy with just a TV sound anymore. I had a Sony surround sound system that bit the dust in Katrina (that bitch). If I can spend less on the TV, then I might splurge for a Bose surround sound system. *drools*

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Reply to Rugger

I'm not even close to 7500Ft - I wouldn't have had 4' of water in the house if I had been that high! :wink:

I hear what you're saying with the standard CRT. I'll have to look into some prices on the larger CRTs. I would hate to have to move that bugger around - even a 27" flat CRT is a heavy BIATCH (and bulky) - anything larger and it will have to be a 2 person lift. Of course I get a plasma it will be 2-person anyways - would hate to drop that thing!

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Reply to Rugger

I have one of the newer generation Panasonic Plasmas. Its 37" and an EDTV. The picture quality is great and the price when compared to other brands is far cheaper. Go to cnet.com and look at their reviews. The major downside to plasma is that you must be cautious about screen burn-in. THey have made improvements but plasma can still be effected by this. If you dont leave it on the same image for 12 hours periods of time then you shouldnt be concerned. To avoid burn-in you can simply change the screen resoloution from time to time. The EDTV is a little cheaper than HDTV but now Panasonic has closed the gap so if I were buying again, I would get an HDTV even though I am pleased with my EDTV. THe main thing that you need to make sure of is that you get a Plasma that has an input for a computer monitor "15 pin" and you will also want an input for DVI or HDMI which will convert to DVI and your standard S-video and RCA inputs.

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Reply to mozzartusm

I've heard some great things about the Panasonic plasmas. They're supposed to be the leaders in the industry for quality in mfr and picture quality. One of my major debates is EDTV vs HDTV. Here is an article on <A HREF="http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-highdefinition.html" target="_new">EDTV vs HDTV</A>. Right now there is not a lot of HD programming to take advantage of the HDTV capabilities, but it will be there eventually. Take a look at that article and let me know what you think...

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Reply to Rugger

I will not make any comments about screen burn in after 12 hours and freezing images of porn at all.

I'll leave it to the usuals to do that.

Reply to riser

Airports will prove that burn-in scenario quite well, alas.

Plasmas are used in Ottawa Intl. and you can easily spot the traces from previous images, due to rather slow changing screens.

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Reply to Eden

Cnet.com has a very good article about the differences between EDTV and HDTV. Keep in mind that most EDTV's can display the image by converting it. If your only concerned with TV and Movie images then the EDTV will fine. You wont notice the difference unless you have both beside each ohter and then its not a big deal anyway. The major advantage will be using it for a computer monitor. HDTV begins to look better for this but if there is a big price diff then its still not worth it.

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Reply to mozzartusm

LOL! The burn in isnt what you need to worry about. Its the cramp that you get in your arm from 12 hours of porn thats the real issue :evil:

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Reply to mozzartusm

Well my buddy is looking into a smaller LCD/plasma tv...he wants it to be in HD for Xbox360 and PS3.
So programming may not be abundant but if you play on a next gen console you may want the high def for gaming.

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Reply to pickxx

If it takes that long looking at a pr0n picture to satisfy your needs, then you deserve burn-in - it'll probably result in blisters, too....

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Reply to Rugger

This will be for TV/movies instead of PC. At least initially...after a while I guess I could end up hooking a media PC to it, too.

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Reply to Rugger

The EDTV will work fine as long as it has the ability to convert the HDTV signal. The Panasonic will be able to do this. If your watching a HDTV signal from an antenna then it will change the aspect ratio of the picture so that it will display on your screen. If the signal is digital then it just displays it in its native resolotuion. I need to take a couple of pics of the display for a digital and a HDTV signal and e-mail them to you. I use mine for movies, TV, and the computer. All you need is a wireless keyboard and mouse and you can sit on your couch and surf the web. The two things to consider at this point would be the number and types of inputs and the price difference between the HDTV and the EDTV. If the price difference is more than $500.00 I wouldnt pay it for the HDTV. The inputs are most important but this is where they screw you. The price tag goes up quick depending on the inputs. I would make sure it had HDMI or DVI, RCA, S-Video, and composite inputs.

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Reply to mozzartusm

seriously i think you need to spend several hours just looking at the different TV`s picture quality to get a true sense. Also make the people at the store work for their money by letting you view different DVD`s on the sets. Do not just settle for the broadcast they show you in the store, it is almost always HD and you will probably have limited availablity to HD. THe best part is you can see it in the store and write the model number down and search for it online. Good e-tailers are newegg, buy.com and good links for e-tailers are cnet.com (better) and pricewatch.com (more for pc components) these sites will give you ratings for the e-tailers.
As far as brands cnet.com also rates the models you are looking at and you can compare them and let me tell you they are pretty brutal as far as ratings.

Reply to morbidangel

If you're getting a plasma, Costco was recommended, since you can return or exchange the screen if you have problems or when you need to recharge the sucker.

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Reply to dhlucke

Recharge? You cant recharge Plasmas.

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Reply to mozzartusm

Wow. That's crazy. I just read up on it and it is some bullshit line that salespeople use.

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Reply to dhlucke

That rumor has been around for a long time and yes they do use that to sell plasmas at some places. There isnt much that can worked on or repaired with a plasma, the panel cant be opened only the back can be removed to expose some of the wires.

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Reply to mozzartusm

I'd love to get some pics! Thanks! All of the HDs that I have looked at were more than $500 more than EDs.

I have no computer at this point. I have to replace my regular first...maybe I'll get one for the TV later on, too. Right now, the wife would be pissed if I took over the TV for computer usage. :wink: I'll definitely make sure that I get the connections you mentioned. :smile:

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Reply to Rugger

No costco in the area, but there is a Bestbuy - I'll have to cruise over there and start doing some visual research soon! :smile: I've been researching online, but haven't hit Cnet.com, yet so I'll hit them hard before I go to the store. I prefer sites to be brutal - I want an honest assessment of price/perf and quality of a product. You should always know what to look for before you start seriously shopping - especially for high-priced items.

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Reply to Rugger

not saying what to buy, but by my understanding.

LCD tvs use the least power, running on a few watts to change the colours, and using most of the power for the backlight, while projectors and plasmas etc.... use a lot of electricity.

i don't know how energy prices will go, but nobody seems to buy things based on efficiency.

personally i would go for a projector, they are increadibly handy and i use them weekly for work related stuff.

also LCD's and projectors are better for your eyes, than CRT's i don't know if plasmas are similar to CRTs in this though.

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Reply to alltaken

I've seen CRT's live 20 years at 12 hours a day of use. New, cheap CRT's are designed to fail sooner.

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Reply to Crashman

Does everyone remember their childhood television? My parents must have had it for 20 years. Today....not a chance.

Another thing to consider is that people watch a lot more television today than they did back then.

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Reply to dhlucke

How about this then: I've seen Zenith Data Systems 13" VGA monitors last over 8 years in a 24-7 environment!

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Reply to Crashman

Quote :

My parents must have had it for 20 years. Today....not a chance.

"Design for obsolescence"

without it the western economy as you know it would collapse. Any company that makes products that last a long time go out of business once the market is saturated.

the problem being the environmental impact of such economic ideas. future design for obsolences will happen with either full recyclability (raw material return) or biodegradability (harmless disposal).

but no comodity product will ever be designed for longevity until economics are changed.

and whats my job?

Product design.... Wooohoooo

BTW any note that the batteries on 1st gen ipods lasted for over 4 years. while the later gens started going down after 18 months or less. design for obsolescence, Apple is a fashion item, and targets ALL its products to be disposed of within or at technical failure. (their Computers were stated to be designed for 3 year life cycles and no more)

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Reply to alltaken

The ipod is the perfect example. The battery lasts 18 months and you can't replace it without sending it in to apple. They charge you $100 for it unless you purchased thier service plan within a year of purchase. I think the service plan cost $60 iirc.

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Reply to dhlucke

The court settlement was accepted, they now do it for free or give you some credit back.

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Reply to Eden

Crash and All: Very interesting point about design for obsolescence. A plasma better last longer than a few years - they cost too much!

IRT LCD vs Plasma and efficiency, I typically do buy for efficiency. I have flourescents throughout the house, am upgrading the insulation (Katrina flooding has given me this opportunity :eek: ), and upgraded appliances to the most efficient that I could find (gas clothes dryer and side-loading washer for example). The reason I'm leaning towards the plasma is that the LCDs become cost prohibitive in larger screens and I don't want to mass with projector and screens (hard to get an entertainment center for a screen for one..). Another issue that I have with LCD is the viewing angles and black display capabilities. Right now I have a serious lean towards plasma - HDTV or EDTV.

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Reply to Rugger

You're right, totally forgot about black depth as well hehe...

That problem is less evident in LCDs equipped with a gloss filter though.

Thing is, Plasmas have a physical limit for their pixels and that makes them unlikely to come in small sizes, thus they have to somehow give incentives to buy larger models which would usually retail for a lot more than CRTs. Well now it's much more affordable due to the fact they have to someone reach a more accessible market. LCDs IMO are still extremely expensive.

I mean, WTF, 20" LCD TVs around 1000$ so you can watch it in your room or in the kitchen?
Yeah right... given the bad image quality interpolation using regular SDTV streams, not a chance in hell.

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Reply to Eden

I didnt read the whole topic so if this was mentioned before just ignore it. Did you take into consideration that plasma screens are rather susceptible to burn in?

I'm not too sure I used the US savvy term here but you undoubtedly have the same thing as we do over here that many stations broadcast their logo constantly during their regular programming, always at the same position. I've seen plenty examples where this logo was burned into the screen due to not switching channels often enough. It doesn't take days to accomplish either. I believe a couple of hours can already be damaging. This is certainly one of the reasons why plasma will not make it in the long run, it's an intermediate technology at best, although I do love the image quality of plasma screens.

BigMac

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Reply to BigMac

DLP?

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Reply to _WW_

<A HREF="http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-burnin.html" target="_new">Burn-in article</A>
I've done some reading and burn-in is a concern, but, with a few precautions, it is avoidable. The models that I will seriously consider are Panasonic, Pioneer, Sony and NEC. If I do make the jump to plasma I want to go with quality - even if I have to balance pricing with sacrificing size for a smaller, high-quality screen.

Mozz: What has been your experience with burn-in on your plasma? What precautions have you taken to prevent it? What model Panasonic? Where did you buy it?

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Reply to Rugger

I've read a few things about DLP, but I don't have a great understanding of the tech and how it compares to plasma in quality, price, longevity and size. Please tell me your thoughts on it and I'll go do some more research. :smile:

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Reply to Rugger

That article (nice overview) does not cover the fact that many networks have their logo's on one spot all the time. I have no idea whether the effect is cumulative or that regular commercial intervals are enough to counter the effect but in the netherlands we have less frequent commercial blocks that last longer, and then it's definitely an issue.

BigMac

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Reply to BigMac

I don't think the effect is cumulative. I'm pretty sure that once those pixels are turned off, that the proverbial clock resets. Some TV stations here have their logos on during shows, but I typically don't watch a lot of TV on those channels. The news channels are some of the worse culprits here. One of the things in my corner is that I'm a channel surfer - hate watching commercials so I switch channels a good bit! :wink:

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Reply to Rugger

I own a Samsung 26'' widescreen HDTV. Great pictures in HD. Time to watch the Baseball Playoffs. Don't waste your money on EDTV. Go HD.

Reply to HardWareBoss

CRT?

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Reply to Rugger

Do they make Widescreen CRT's?

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Reply to dhlucke

Samsung <A HREF="http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?prod_id=TXN2670WHFXXAA" target="_new">does</A>. I wasn't sure when you asked the question so I googled and found it...

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Reply to Rugger

You could use one of those new wall mounted systems the M.O.L.D.P.W.D

"The mold projection wall display"

Dude if your T.V went down in the house from Katrina fix the house first. Unless you mean you lost it due to a power surge and your abode is on dry ground.

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Reply to SoDNighthawk

LOL - Good advice. I'm working the house right now and preparing to fill it. Have to set goals at this point in order to remain sane.

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Reply to Rugger

Quote :

Do they make Widescreen CRT's?

At least they used to. I have one.

BigMac

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Reply to BigMac

Burn-in is a concern but if you are aware of it and take precautions you should be ok. The main thing that I do is change the aspect ratio. The tool bars in IE are constant but so far I havent had any burn-in. I have fallen asleep after being online for a few hours but havent had any burn-in. One thing you could do is buy a timer for your display that would auto turn off the display after a certain amount of time.

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Reply to mozzartusm

Great idea on the timer. As long as you don't forget about it and it turns off in the middle of your favorite show. That's a minor concern though and a great way to protect this type of investment!

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Reply to Rugger

i believe there is a setting in display properties that will turn off your monitor after X amount of time sitting idle. i just set mine to ten minutes.

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Reply to mrface

What does the TV consider idle?

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