Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

AMD users - all ignorant and uneducated?

Last response: in CPUs
Share
April 10, 2002 6:15:05 PM

<b>AMD users - all ignorant and uneducated - or is it just a small few?</b>- <i>emulator dude</i>

<A HREF="http://www.emulators.com/docs/pentium_4.htm#ChrisTom" target="_new">Ode to the Mongrel God</A>

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
April 10, 2002 6:25:26 PM

I was wondering how long it would be before you posted that.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
April 10, 2002 6:42:18 PM

plus,

aggressive and violent.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
Related resources
April 10, 2002 6:44:57 PM

Uh, duh, kan u repeet the qwestion? I'm a dum AMD usser and I dint unnerstand it.

Pleez use smal werdz so I kan follough u.

Moron!

"There's no such thing as gravity, the Earth just sucks."
April 10, 2002 6:48:57 PM

It was an enjoyable read. Just goes to show what a joke AMDzone is.

Whatcha gonna do when the trolls run wild on you?!?!?!
April 10, 2002 6:50:38 PM

here it is. not just a qwestion really.

***

AMD users - all ignorant and uneducated - or is it just a small few?

I expected some backlash from AMD users this week when I announced that the AMD Athlon is no longer the fastest x86 processor.

I DID expect to receive some emails from people insulting me, and those of course I got.

I DID expect to receive other people's benchmark data to perhaps dispute my findings. That data I have NOT received. No one has sent me any quantitative data to try to disprove my findings. Certainly I expected an intelligent bunch like AMD users to speak up and defend their favorite processor with their own data. But they did not.

And what I DID NOT expect to find out was that some AMD users are as close minded and ignorant as some other rather rabid and fanatical computer users - Macintosh users.

No one less than Chris Tom himself of AMDZONE.COM chose to spew a long stream of obscenities at me, somehow as an effort to defend AMD. And his emails have been closely followed by a long stream of semi-accurate (or just plain inaccurate) emails from other rabid followers of Mr. Tom who just plain either have forgotten their facts, or just plain don't make an effort to verify their data.

Mr. Tom wrote me an email in which he blamed 99.9% of hardware problems on user error. I responded back to him, in a letter which he posted on his site, stating that he is a fraud to make such statements. Is he seriously stating that a consumer who walks into a computer store, asks for an AMD Athlon motherboard, is sold such a motherboard by a commissioned salesman, goes home and tries to install an Athlon XP processor on such a motherboard only to find that there are problems, is it really the user's fault 99.9% of the time that this happened. Especially when the motherboard in question, the ASUS A7A266 is clearly labeled on the package as being compatible with the processor.

Obviously the consumer can't be at fault for buying a shrink wrapped motherboard from a computer salesman who claims the board is Athlon XP compatible. 99.9% of the time, the consumer is at fault? What a load of bull!

I also pointed out to Mr. Tom, as I pointed our in a public posting last summer entitled Do not trust review sites, that he in a conflict of interest to be accepting payment and free product from the very companies whose products he then reviews. This is the classic "grease the palm" scam that goes on not only in the computer industry but in many other industries. You pick up a magazine, you read a glowing review of a product, turn the page, and presto, there just very conveniently placed is a full page ad for that very product! Now visit the www.amdzone.com web site and you will find an extra-ordinary amount of screen space cluttered with banner ads promoting not only AMD related motherboard but outright bashing web sites such as boycottrambus.com.

Can you trust a hardware reviewer who is PAID by special interest groups to honestly review products? OF COURSE NOT! The validity of the data contained on Mr. Tom's web site is as suspect as the validity of any print magazine that places product reviews next to product ads for the same product being reviewed.

Mr. Tom apparently feels, as a few of his readers feel, that I am incapable of assembling a computer. Despite the fact that I've assembled any number of other Athlon Thunderbird, Pentium III, Celeron, and Pentium 4 systems using similar ASUS and MSI motherboards which all worked out of the box the first time.

Now, for the 0.01% case where the customer is not at fault, Mr. Tom does admit that the cause can be a bad motherboard. Well, I looked on his web site, in fact I even asked him point blank by email, to point me at a review of the A7A266 motherboard to tell me, as a consumer, that this board shouldn't be used with the Athlon XP. I can't find any such review, and why not. It would not serve Mr. Tom's interests to tell readers NOT to buy some motherboard when he is in the business of profiting from motherboard ads.

Certainly I maybe just had some bad luck with the particular components that I purchased, but certainly someone like Mr. Tom, who runs a web site claiming to be, and I quote from the web site, "The real #1 Source for Hammer, Athlon, Duron, K6, news, reviews and information. Est. July 1998.", should not take the actions that he has taken.

First of all, right off the bat I have to question exactly WHO appointed his web site the #1 "real source" for the AMD related information? Did AMD? Does AMD endorse his web site or allow him to freely use the AMD name in his web site's domain name, and to use AMD graphics stolen directly from AMD's web site? Do they approve of the way Mr. Tom behaves?

Rather than asking me for specifics about my configuration, Mr. Tom responded by posting my insulting me with not ONE, not TWO, not THREE, but FOUR hastily put together emails which he emailed to me this morning around the same time that he chose to post my private emails to him to the net.

Here is what I was greeted to this morning (April 7 2002) checking my emails:

[email screen shot]

This coming from the man who is the webmaster of the self proclaimed #1 source of Athlon news, reviews, and information. Apparently the way to fix your hardware problems is to go f*ck yourself. Hmmm. I'm not aware of that technique working.

What's interesting is how easily Mr. Tom is caught in a lie. For the front page of his own web site he claims, and here is a screen shot:

[amdzone.com screenshot]

Yet at the same time, in between vulgarities sent to me by email, he professes to "make hardly any ... money". Which is it Mr. Chris Tom? Are you making loads of money from your web site that profits from AMD's name and banner ad revenue, or are you making "hardly any". Even "hardly any" is still a profit, despite your apparent attempt to deny it to me.

I am shocked that AMD seems to allow a web site to use its name like this, to proclaim itself to the #1 source of information about AMD's products, and yet have a webmaster who admittedly is in the profitable business of accepting banner ads for products which he then supposedly "reviews".

It's outright fraud, compounded by the fact that Mr. Tom chooses not dispute my statements with any kind of factual data of his own, but instead chooses to blame the innocent consumer for hardware problems and chooses to respond to me in a most a vulgar fashion?

Mr. Tom, since you so eagerly chose to post my private email to on the web, why did you not post your 4 very eloquent responses to me? I'm sure everyone would love to hear your revolutionary technique of making an Athlon work better by f*cking oneself.

Despite the fact that the self-appointed spokesman of the AMD community and others chose to respond in such a vulgar manner, I did receive other emails from people who have been very helpful in aiding me get the dual Athlon MP system working with Windows XP.

For unlike Mr. Tom, others did freely admit to being in similar situations with their Athlon MP systems, and did share some useful advice. I thank people such as Matthew Kim here in Seattle and Malcolm Taylor in New Zealand among others who made suggestions as to ways to get this system running better.

One suggestion was to raise the core voltage of the chips from the default settings. Another was to use a different video card other than the GeForce 3 as apparently there are known problems with the combination of dual Athlon, GeForce 3, and Windows XP. Using those suggestions and some others, I tweaked the BIOS settings to raise the voltage, turn off some performance options, not cache the video memory, etc. and finally, this afternoon, was able to successfully upgrade Windows 2000 to Windows XP Pro. I then applied the usual Windows Update patches (26 megabytes now and counting, installed the latest nVidia Detonator driver, upgraded the A7M266-D BIOS from revision 1004 to 1005, and changed some of the BIOS settings back to more optimal settings.

The end result is that the dual Athlon MP is now running Windows XP and I am able to conduct the dual processor tests on that machine in Windows XP rather than being stuck using Windows 2000. Hurray!

There were other cases of pure disinformation being sent to me. According to a Jon Carta, and I quote: "When the Athlon was released in the fall of 99, it went from 600MHz to 900Mhz before the end of the year." Now this is just a laughable example of someone who is so either clued out or so intent on lying, that they don't bother to realize that their bogus statement can be verified in about 15 seconds of trying. By simply visiting AMD's own web site, (c'mon folks, this is just TOO EASY), one sees that in the fall of 1999 the Athlon was shipping at 600 MHz (which is when I first got my hands on it and endorsed it), followed by the release of the 700 MHz part in October 1999. Now according to this fool, within the next 2 months then AMD shipped a 900 MHz part. In fact, one has to go a full 4 months forward, to February 2000 just to find the release of the 850 MHz part. The 900 MHz and 1 GHz parts followed soon thereafter. While this reader was certainly in the right ballpark, he chose to rely on his defective memory than to simply spend 15 seconds verifying his data. Literally, go to amd.com, click on the Press Releases link, look up 1999, and then try to find a press release for the 900 MHz part. I knew where to look (2000) and found the release of the 900 MHz part in March 2000. Nice try Mr. Carta, but I am not so naive that I can't verify the release of some product.

By the way, it is interesting to note that while the Athlon ramped up from 600 MHz to 1000 MHz in the course of about 6 months, it took an entire year (March 2000 to March 2001) to bump the speed up by 33% (to 1.33 GHz) and another year after that to bump it up an additional 30% to 1.73 GHz.

Another reader, commenting on my comparison of PC133 and DDR2100 memory prices, someone who chooses to remain anonymous and only identifies himself by the the drug related email address of BongWaterz@hotmail.com states that, and I quote (deleting explicatives): "DDR is not but 5% or so more expensive". Now, while this was certainly true last summer when RAM prices were at an all-time low, RAM prices have gone up since then and I have watched the price premium of DDR go up.

I asked Mr. Bong (or is that Mr. Waters?) and also asked the readers here if someone knows of a computer store that sells DDR memory for only 5% over the same sized PC133 memory to please let me know so that I can inform people about this wonderful buying opportunity.

Mr. Bong and a few other readers did respond and pointed me at some mail order sites. It turns out that this wonderful buying opportunity only applies to lower density memory, 64 megabyte modules, where the premium of DDR is about 10% over PC133. With 128 meg and 256 meg modules the price premium of DDR rises to about 15%, and with 512 meg modules (what I've been purchasing since last year) the premium rises to 20% and higher.

I didn't realize that Mr. Bong was discussing liquidation prices on year-old memory modules. Most Athlon motherboards only have 2 or 3 DDR slots, and certainly to fill those up by placing only 128 to 192 megabytes of RAM in the PC to run today's Windows XP operating system and applications (or running Mac OS on top of that using our emulators) is only going to cause you to throw away the low density RAM and replace it with higher density RAM.

Certainly today, I only purchase 512 meg modules, and would for most people recommend purchasing either 256 meg or 512 meg memory modules. Even if you don't fill up your memory slots today, you'll have the empty slots for future expansion.

But the 5% figure is really fantasy and Mr. Bong knows it, which is why he refuses to give his real name and hides behind a Hotmail account. The list of such idiotic emails received in the past few days goes on and on in an effort to distort the price/performance/facts of AMD products.

Certainly computer magazines, individuals such as Chris Tom, and even myself, have a right to review hardware products. As a policy, our web site has NEVER accepted banner ads, and we have no shortage of offers. It is simply a bad idea to take advertising revenue from companies whose products you review. That's why I am so strongly against so many of these for-hire hardware review sites and why in general I don't pay attention to computer magazines that derive most of their revenue from such payments.

Does Emulators profit from doing these mini hardware reviews? Absolutely! As software developers we do what every responsible software developer does and that is to do product testing. In particular there is a type of testing known as configuration testing, where you set up a large number of computers with various processors, memory configurations, video cards, sound cards, and operating systems which users of that software may encounter. Doing so ensures not only that users of the software will run into less hardware related problems, but also increase the potential market for the product by letting people know what the product has been tested on.

In our case, we set the compatibility bar very low (by today's standards) at a 33 MHz 486. Why? For historical reasons, when we launched our first 68000 emulator for the PC, that software required a 486/33. Even today, we make sure that every one of our emulators can still run on a customer machine from 10 years ago. 486, Pentium, K6, Athlon, Pentium III, etc. we still support it.

Testing is a natural part of software development. It is built into the price of software development. It should not be funded by banner ads, or similar attempts to extort payment. We buy the hardware, we do the testing, we report the results. No freebies from Intel or AMD, save for a single Athlon XP 1900 chip that was sent to us last year. No free motherboards. No motive to promote either Intel or AMD.

It is this concept that some AMD fans cannot seem to grasp. How is it that our web site can recommend the Athlon processor for 2.5 years (from October 1999 to April 2002) and then seemingly switch sides. It's very simple - we do new tests every month and the results change. Duh! If they didn't change there we be no point to running new tests every month. This rather obvious concept is just beyond the intellectual grasp of some AMD users.

I've had many very intelligent conversations with AMD users over the past 2.5 years. I only hope that the level of ignorance, vulgarity, and disrespect demonstrated by people such as Chris Tom is not indicative of a general level of ignorance among the AMD community. For if it is, AMD will have a hard time gaining market share (as is the case with Apple) if its products are viewed as appealing to a small rabid community promoting their anti-Intel agenda at all costs.



Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
April 10, 2002 8:03:52 PM

Some famous Kennyshin quotes:

Quote:
Shut up, idiot.

I strongly believe yours sorts need to perish very soon in order to prevent the civilizations destroying and killing one another.

Most of the rest of the world would really appreciate it if the people of the United States of America stop calling its native people Indians or American Indians and also stop calling themselves Americans when the USA is only a very small part of the entire Americas in both territorial area and population.

Combine "Ban Kennyshin" with "God Bless America" and the result will be "Ban America" and "God Bless Kennyshin." Can you see how idiotic you are reacting?

I can confidently say over 90% of 2,000,000,000 east Asians hate Westerners even though what they outwardly tell you in front of you

Sometimes I couldn't resist the feeling to crush you.

btw you do always sound very childish.

Go to hell with AMD!

People like you talking about God Bless America disgust the rest of the world, I mean most of them.

Well, at least most Asians do not love America but the few who visit this forum and write in English probably do not belong to that most.

Don't tell me as if I don't read like you do. For 10 years, I've been reading ONLY English books and papers. I don't read and write in Korean except on very rare cases.

If I have small "trouble" understanding parts of the English language, maybe that's the limit of my intelligence though you hardly look that good yourself.

It'd be the best solution for both sides if AMD just disappear... and then the bitter war between AMD fanatics and the rest of the world will stop at last.

Maybe, AMD should stop manufacturing poorly-designed processors whatever it decides on the Korean market, or any other market for that matter.

At the beginning of this discussion, I warned people like you to stay out of the discussion.

Sorry, but I don't like being humble nor would I want anyone to be humble. I don't like the very sound of it.

Do you know how arrogant the average Westerner is to Asian people?

Understand that there are hardly anyone who loves America and any other Western country here and I clearly understand what people think of Korea and Koreans.

Fat burger, do I have to answer saying "go back to your womb" then like Mati?

You do understand it so just let it go instead of saying otherwise.

Maybe that's why you are so hated by some people.

Everyone has one's enemy inside and outside. If everyone has wrong points, everyone is my enemy. If everyone has good points, then everyone is my friend.

If what I say about AMD Korea's warranty issue is difficult to believe just because I am a Korean living in Korea and Korea is a "admited hotbed of pirated software," then would you accept the accusation some USA soldiers f*u*c*k*e*d and then killed some local Korean women just to enjoy sex and practice taking lives?

Well, sorry if I sounded Anti-American when I am really pro-American.

Maybe your easy answer is that no Korean is literate and honest enough.

Maybe AMD decided to play Nazi against Korea for political reasons just like one of you suggested.

You have no honor and integrity so we don't believe you either.

Even I showed any disgust towards any of you, you obviously acted like NAZI.

I am generous, kind, straight-forward, courteous, honest, and frank. I also have a good memory over what I have written and I do read what I wrote again and again and I am already ready to correct my faults and errors as an enhanced human intelligence should try so.

I surely do not like your saying masturbation and clone since you keep adding that garbase just to make fun of the people who criticizes AMD processors and AMD policies.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
April 10, 2002 8:17:00 PM

As long as they cost half the price and perform as well (or nearly as well) and Intel's chips - I'll keep buying AMD.

Who buys a $500 proc. when you can buy one that's only 10% slower for half the price? People who can afford really expensive procs.
April 10, 2002 8:17:11 PM

thanks meltdown. you rock!

I run duals because i multitask between notepad, outlook express and winamp :lol: 
April 10, 2002 8:27:36 PM

So what's your point, besides taking an old post out of context, reprinting it here, and stiring this up? At least he mentioned in his post that he rereads his posts and attempts to improve himself.

AMD fanatics need to get a grip, at least his post had facts that to he was refering to.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 10, 2002 8:30:58 PM

Quote:
Who buys a $500 proc. when you can buy one that's only 10% slower for half the price? People who can afford really expensive procs.

I'm beginning to believe the headline. Wake up man, a stock cooled 1.6A is able to withstand any stock cooled Athlon XP.

/Copenhagen
April 10, 2002 8:41:47 PM

You mean an overclocked 1.6A.
A stock 1.6A is useless in competing, all AXPs beat it royally. Hardly worth the Intel trademark unless you want to overclock it.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
April 10, 2002 8:45:23 PM

Send that list to Fredi.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
April 10, 2002 8:46:47 PM

Stock cooled means the retail heatsink, and I have a hard time believing a 1500+ would "beat it royally".

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
April 10, 2002 8:49:15 PM

There have always been the people and companies that buy Intel processors only because it's from Intel.

As for cost/performance (or performance/cost), those who earn over 10,000 USD a month can surely afford the more expensive 2.4A instead of 1.6A. The price difference is less than 500 dollars but the performance difference may prove more. Those who feel otherwise can choose 1.6A or even Celeron Tualatin. Those who decide Athlon or Duron is better may buy 1700+ or 1.0 Morgan.

Anyway, half the price seems a little exaggerated. I'd say 30 percent difference. There are millions of people here in Korea whose average annual income is about 8000 usd and who choose Intel. Frankly, I fail to see why the 30 dollars or 50 dollars price difference matter so much to the people in the US or Europe.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
April 10, 2002 8:49:34 PM

Sorry I thought he meant performance wise at stock. But at stock speed, a 1500+ would still be better.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
April 10, 2002 8:52:56 PM

and restart everything again?

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
April 10, 2002 8:55:45 PM

If you were in my case, especially with Canadian pricing, you'll see how a 100$ difference here, can be very crucial for other parts.
I saved over 100$ buying a better performing machine, and was able to afford a GF3 Ti200 with that. I dunno but in Canada, Intel pricing is dramatic to most average income users. When an XP 1800+ is 230$CDN, and the 1.6A is 249$CDN, you'll know you can save so much by getting the XP1800, FOR STOCK USAGE NO OVERCLOCKING. If you overclock, then we'll calculate the savings found in the 1.6A in CDN pricing and the target 2.4GHZ which is obviously 1000$ CDN.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
April 10, 2002 8:56:55 PM

I thought you were talking again with Kenny instead of ignoring him?
The one I would send on the list to Fredi, is Meltdown. Calling us morons for using AMD is unacceptable.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
April 10, 2002 9:01:20 PM

Pardon? He called AMD users morons? I use no less than SIX AMD processors right now at home and so he called me moron? Just a few hours ago, I read some guy calling him moron. Is it acceptable then?

well, there should be principles first and judgment come next.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 10, 2002 9:03:51 PM

Quote:
You mean an overclocked 1.6A.

You got it right, why then pretend you're stupid ?

As Fatburger said, stock cooled means with the retail heatsink. "Stock cooled" kind of indicates that the CPU is overclocked, otherwise it makes no sense.

/Copenhagen
April 10, 2002 9:08:04 PM

Hm. The pricing looks strange to me. 1.6A costs about 20% less than 1800+ in Seoul. (Seoul controls 80% Korean market.)
I'd buy Athlon XP 1800+ if its price is below that of 1.6A here, too. It seems odd the prices in Canada is so different from the US market.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
April 10, 2002 9:09:44 PM

Restart what again? I didn't say those things, you did. One is held responsible for their own actions. What you did is a crime where I am. In Canada, these types of comments are called hate crimes. It's inacceptable. Unfortunately, the U.S. doesn't condemn racism as much as Canada.

As far as I'm concerned we are all equal and so racism has no place here.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
April 10, 2002 9:11:36 PM

It's not. The AXP 1800+ is cheaper than the P4 1.6A in a majority of online U.S. resellers.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
April 10, 2002 9:17:27 PM

That's right. I was confused over 1800+ and 1900+ because I look for mostly for 1700+ only because its price had been already around $150 here.

btw, if you add the shipping and tax, what'd be the total cost of buying an Athlon XP 1800+ OEM in Canada?

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
April 10, 2002 9:24:07 PM

In Korea, every related posting would have been instantly deleted by the forum managers. I did not start it and I said I'd apologize for anything if I said anything wrongly. What some people said here would be regarded in Korea as crimes and also something to be publicly damned.

And what do you think racism is? A Korean who's never been abroad and never been overseas and talk about computers and international politics actively in a mostly Western and White forum and criticize one's own nationalities is a racist? First define what a racist is and then persuade me that I am one. I do not have any antipathy or prejudice towards White or Anglo-Saxon or the West or the USA.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 10, 2002 9:25:25 PM

Where I live a retail XP1800+ is cheaper than a 1.6A, in fact, I can get a XP1900+ for only 23$ more than what the 1.6A costs, but that does not make me want one anyway.

/Copenhagen
April 10, 2002 9:32:45 PM

$30 to $50 is a lot of money to some people that don't make very much money. Its no my case but I do have relatives were that would be the case.

Whatcha gonna do when the trolls run wild on you?!?!?!
April 10, 2002 9:51:43 PM

Sorry, I like getting more bang for the buck. And BTW, when you're around message boards long enough, you'll learn that's better not to insult some one when you disagree with them. Civility will help carry your point further than rudeness.
April 10, 2002 9:57:54 PM

10000 USD? I make many times that and spending 2-300$ more for a CPU that goes little faster is something that I may be ABLE to afford, but why should I? I can spend that money paying off my house, getting something nice for my family, giving to charity, or anything else that may be more worthwhile. I could even save the 300$ and buy something really fast next year when the system I have isnt current!

Jesus saves, but Mario scores!!!
April 10, 2002 9:58:59 PM

Hm. About 1 billion (that's 3 x North American population) people in China earn around 100 USD a year. Most of my relatives earned about the same (or even less) during most period of their lives. Most US population earn more than a few hundred dollars a month. I think the difference is mainly for expectation of standard. During my entire army service, I received about 70 dollars. (the time's longer and harder than any in the world except maybe North Korea.) I know the cost of surgery and higher education is higher in the US than in any other country. What I point out is that the US spends too little on telecommunications and computers.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
April 10, 2002 9:59:33 PM

Hey melty did you get a new keyboard? This one seems to work. It does not put your subject in all caps!!

Jesus saves, but Mario scores!!!
April 10, 2002 10:01:19 PM

Quote:
Sorry, I like getting more bang for the buck.


As do I, which is why I got my 1.6A. Best bang for the buck for an overclocker.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
April 10, 2002 10:07:57 PM

I know most US income per house go over 50K usd. I said 30 to 50, not 300.

Anyway, it's to be decided upon one's values, purposes, etc. In my case, the most expensive processor I have bought so far was Cyrix 6x86 166+ and the next was AMD Athlon XP 1600+. The most expensive Intel processor I bought was Pentium 120-MHz. About 70 usd at that time. (it was a few months before the currency crisis in South Korea.)

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
April 10, 2002 10:08:19 PM

"About 1 billion (that's 3 x North American population) people in China earn around 100 USD a year. Most of my relatives earned about the same (or even less) during most period of their lives."

But what you fail to see is that I spend $100 a week to just feed my family! You cannot look at incomes around the world and give a fair comparison on raw $ figures. The cost of living here is more in a month then many places in a year, so it is all relative!

Jesus saves, but Mario scores!!!
April 10, 2002 10:21:58 PM

I didn't fail to see that the US or European people have to spend more on education and medical services than Asians. GNP and average income numbers do not tell everything but the best indication of buying power. CIA data provides the relative buying power based on average annual Gross Domestic Product but it's far from complete or accurate. Oil, cars, electricity, real estate, electronics, computers - these are cheapest in North America. Less income sometimes mean not only poverty and disease but also famine and political oppression. I never had enough food in my entire childhood. Even milk was regarded a luxury item. Literally, millions have died in my country. The standard of living is quite different in different countries and among different cultures, too. In the US, the price of products coming from factories is low and the price for services done by human beings is high. That's why education and medical services cost more in the US but the price of computer processors and automobiles is lowest. The money you spend in restaurants and law courts mostly go directly to your own people and it just means added income for other people. In most other places, the opposite is true.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
April 10, 2002 11:13:26 PM

Whoa, man, I can imagine your pain. It's not right not to share resources equally among countries. Unfortunately, current political systems cannot share resources freely among different countries. If only we had a government similar to the Federation in Star Trek. They have one government for over 130 planets, I believe! Sure, that's far out but there are practical reasons why we don't have an international unified government. It's the limited resources here on Earth. If were able to travel vast distances to different planets, we'd have unlimited resources and so it would be spread out equally. With unlimited resources we'd have a unified government based on a hybrid of democracy and communism. That would be cool! You can have whatever you want, whenever you want it. With those kinds of principles, capitalism as we know it would be obsolete.

We'd focus more on the acquisition of knowledge than the acquisition of wealth and assets. That's my dream!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
April 10, 2002 11:23:34 PM

Quote:
If were able to travel vast distances to different planets, we'd have unlimited resources and so it would be spread out equally.


Do you actually believe that would happen?

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
April 10, 2002 11:27:40 PM

Quote:
And what do you think racism is? A Korean who's never been abroad and never been overseas and talk about computers and international politics actively in a mostly Western and White forum and criticize one's own nationalities is a racist? First define what a racist is and then persuade me that I am one. I do not have any antipathy or prejudice towards White or Anglo-Saxon or the West or the USA.


Kennyshin, you are not only racist, but you are prejudice. Why? Because you judge people and make decisions based on race. You use race as a crutch to lean on when you aren't happy with a discussion. You yourself have admitted being a racist. Every thread with your name in it breaks down into a racial discussion. Even this one has. You constantly feel the need to compare everything to different countries and then start a big deal about price differences and racial differences and language differences and cultural differences and how you are a victim and everyone else is a fanatic if they disagree with you. You have insulted Americans, westerners and patriotism. You have compared people with Nazis, you have suggested that I die, you have equated software piracy with rape and murder, you think people disagree with you because you're Korean, you have claimed to be more American than Americans, and you have spoken on behalf of billions of people who supposedly hate westerners. That's not really what this forum is for. The worst part is that you still can't prove anything you say.

There are hundreds of posts from you that are disgusting. People have read them and now it's too late for you to make amends. You can't just pretend you never did anything wrong, rude, or disgusting. The simple fact that you equate this forum with whites and westerners is just stupid. Who gives a flying crap what color we are or what part of the world we live in? I dislike you for what you have said, you dislike me because I called you on it.

Kenny, what you have said so far in this forum is inexcusable. There is absolutely no justification for your posts of hate. You have attacked a dozen people and now you have to learn to deal with it or leave. Last I checked there were over 30 people how wanted you banned.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
April 10, 2002 11:29:44 PM

Quote:

Do you actually believe that would happen?

Yes, I do, but not for a century, at least.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
April 10, 2002 11:32:52 PM

Let me put it this way. When there were isolated cities, people said "If we could only trade freely with other cities, then we'd have all the resources we could ever need and it would be distributed equally.". After that happened someone said "If we could only trade with the country next door...". Then someone said "If we could only trade with people across the sea...". Why do you think that suddenly it'll be very different when we are spread out across several planets? At what point do we magically have all the resources we need, and suddenly have the widsom and integrity to do the right thing with them?

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
April 10, 2002 11:41:36 PM

Just read the signature!

AMD user!
YES!!! Former Intel user.
April 10, 2002 11:41:38 PM

There are some theories involving the evolution of a civilization over billions of years.

Type I - Us. First we harness the energy and resources of the planet. We've only had advance technology for a few decades really.

Type II - Harness the energy and resources of our home star.

Type III - Harness the energy of all stars in your galaxy. Would take about 2-5 billion years (we're only 150k years old).

At which point would a civilization become content? I don't know. We're still at a point where we risk self destruction. Once humans can get beyond that, we might be able to answer that question.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
April 10, 2002 11:47:04 PM

However, your signature does not give any reason for going with AMD.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
April 10, 2002 11:55:09 PM

Quote:

At what point do we magically have all the resources we need, and suddenly have the widsom and integrity to do the right thing with them?

When we are able to have virtually unlimited resources, there's no need to fight over something you can get elsewhere if you travel far enough.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
April 10, 2002 11:57:40 PM

Quote:
Frankly, I fail to see why the 30 dollars or 50 dollars price difference matter so much to the people in the US or Europe.

That's how we all got so rich. We're cheap bastards :wink:

Mmmm... Red Hot
April 11, 2002 12:00:12 AM

I disagree. How many wars are fought over resources? Hardly any.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
April 11, 2002 12:01:16 AM

Quote:



I disagree. How many wars are fought over resources? Hardly any.

Hmm, isn't land a natural resource?

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
April 11, 2002 12:02:40 AM

Quote:
With unlimited resources we'd have a unified government based on a hybrid of democracy and communism. That would be cool! You can have whatever you want, whenever you want it.

It would? What if "what you wanted" was to have more than someone else. Hmm...

There's no magic pill for humanity. For all intents and purposes us Westerners do have everything we could possibly want (all our basic needs are virtually guaranteed, and look at how far we go for "luxury".)

Anyhow- I gotta laugh at how this thread is worded
"AMD users - all ignorant and uneducated?" It's like Meltdown is submitting a proposition for discussion. :lol:  Pretty hard to generalize the xMillions of AMD users like that IMHO.

Mmmm... Red Hot
April 11, 2002 12:05:20 AM

Quote:
I disagree. How many wars are fought over resources? Hardly any.

Um, OIL? Why would we care what Saddam was doing if not for tha black gold?

It's either religion, land, or resources. The odd time you get wars based on pure hatred, but that usually stems from somethin.

Mmmm... Red Hot
!