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Another purchasing dilema

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I'm in a position where I can sell my current core rig:
Athlon XP 1800+
Abit KR7A-RAID mobo
and Globalwin CAK-II 38
and purchase an overclocking Pentium 4 machine that would consist of:
Epox EP-4BDA2+ motherboard
1.6 GHz Northwood
and either Alpha 8942 HSF or the AVC Sun Flower.
Now doing this would cost me little, or no cash out of pocket and I should be able to get that 1.6 to 2.1-2.4 GHz. I'm hessitant to sell my soul and go Intel but the price/performance is right there to be had by all who arn't shy to overclock. I've already got Corsair PC2400 ram so I'm set on that front.
Just some side info, my 1800+ and KR7A-RAID doesn't like overclocking much, highest I can reach stable is roughly 142 FSB, which is almost the exact same result the hardocp guys got with their KR7A-RAID no matter what CPU and multiplier they had. That eliminates overclocking my current rig for more performance. And stuff I typically do on my computer is Gaming, video editing, and video recompression so Pentium 4 wouldn't be a bad choice for what I do.
what do you guys think? Get the Pentium 4 and OC like theres no tomorrow? or keep my rig.
and if you guys say Pentium 4, what Heat Sink would be better? the aplha or the avc

If my response is brief and vague its because the info you provided is too!

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I always hate to see a P4 paired with anything other than RDRAM, but it would probably perform a little better overall. Probably not worth the effort, but that's for you to decide (I personally wouldn't switch, based on what you've said).

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft

if you say that from my previous overclocking experience I can see why. something I should have added is that all the hardware I have reached 160 FSB CAS 2-2-2 in an Epox 8K7A+ with an unlocked Tbird so I know either my mobo or cpu is the wall I ran into.

If my response is brief and vague its because the info you provided is too!
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Northbridge cooling may be the only thing holding you back.

Try pulling the northbridge heatsink, sanding it smooth and flat, and reapplying it with good thermal compound. You may need to add a couple of washers to get back the tension for the retaining pins.


<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>

I reaplied the heat sink of the north bridge with arctic silver II and I've got tons of air flow, I think the revision of my board (the week they came out) just isn't an overclocker.
Pretty much hands down a 2.1 GHz and faster northwood with increased front side bus should beat an 1800+ right?

If my response is brief and vague its because the info you provided is too!

Quote:
Pretty much hands down a 2.1 GHz and faster northwood with increased front side bus should beat an 1800+ right?

I honestly don't know. Are you still talking about a P4 1.6A overclocked to 2.1 vs an XP 1800+? I think you said you were only able to run FSB at 142mhz. Does that mean you overclocked to 1633mhz (up from 1533)?

Since both systems would use DDR I'd be curious how they really do compare.

I would guess that it wouldn't be worth it if you were paying out of pocket but since it's going to be a no cost swap (for you) then go for it. Your overclocking might reach higher than 2.1.

Sorry, but I don't read about all P4 motherboards/chipsets. Can you switch to RDRAM later with the EP-4BDA2+? I would think a P4 plus RDRAM would be hard to beat for video encoding.

<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>

Hardocp got that Epox motherboard to 2.24 GHz from 1.6 but they used the AVC Sun Flower cooler and only upped the voltage a little bit. With the Alpha and a higher voltage boost I'm sure I could *probably* run 150 MHz FSB which would be 2.4 GHz.
So increased memory speed should give a real nice performance boost

If my response is brief and vague its because the info you provided is too!

Quote:
if you say that from my previous overclocking experience I can see why.


I say that just because the speed difference won't be huge. So unless all you do is play Quake 3, or want the P4 for some reason other than performance, it wouldn't be worth switching them out.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft

so you think if I matched or beat 2.24 GHz I probably wouldn't get more performance than an athlon XP 1800+?
I thought athlon XP 2100+ was on par with the 2.2 GHz Pentium 4 with 100 MHz FSB, if a pentium 4 was running with 150 FSB it'd be considerably better.

If my response is brief and vague its because the info you provided is too!

It would be a decent boost, but I just don't see any reason to go through the effort of getting the other parts and switching them.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft

I havn't reinstalled my OS since mid December and so far my tiple boot of 98se, 2kpro, and XP pro I've lost partial functionality of XP, 2kpro is starting to have explorer errors, and I really don't want to resort to using 98se. Basically its time to install windows again.
And gosh darnit its just fun to overclock! :smile:
But of coarse I wouldn't expect you to know about my operating system situation. If you really think its not that big of a difference then I won't sell my stuff. By the way hows your 1.6 northwood doing?

If my response is brief and vague its because the info you provided is too!

Quote:
I thought athlon XP 2100+ was on par with the 2.2 GHz Pentium 4 with 100 MHz FSB, if a pentium 4 was running with 150 FSB it'd be considerably better.


If you were using a ddr system you would have to get more than 2.4ghz to beat the 2100+, ddr takes a chunk out of the performance of the p4.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:

It's not that big a difference, a 1.6 at 2.2 with DDR would keep up with a 2100+.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft

Bear with me here.


3ghz p4+ddr < 2.6ghz p4 + rdram
2100+ = 2.2ghz p4 + rdram
Therefore
2100+ > 2.4-2.6ghz p4+ddr

Account for the faster speed causing more data starvation and I estimate that

2100+ >= 2.3-2.5ghz p4 + ddr.


Any flaws in that logic burger?

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:

as long as it performs better than Athlon XP 1800+ I'll be happy.
Remember I can't afford a 2100+ but I can swap CPU and MOBO for the pentium system and OC like a beotch.

If my response is brief and vague its because the info you provided is too!

Yes, because the 2.2 is on a 100MHz bus, whereas a 1.6A overclocked to 2.4 would not be.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft

Oni it wont thats what I am saying.


You have your 1800+@142 fsb right thats what 2000++.

In order for the p4 with ddr to OUTPERFORM the 2000++ you would require 2.4ghz AT LEAST!

It is SO not worth paying ANY money for to get at most 1-3% faster speeds ASSUMING you can even hit 2.4ghz+.

Also the faster you go with the chip, the worse the data starvation will get and the smaller your gains.


Total waste of money man.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:

THe p4 with ddr ram which was at 3ghz was not at stock fsb, and it was being OWNED by the rdram system, this is a bad move on onis part and hes wasting cash imo.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:

Actually I have an 1800+ at 1800+ speed (11.5 x 133) and when I overclock its not stable. Temps are fine though around 45C full load with 1.85 volts and 1633 MHz speed. Also at the insane speed of 3GHz I can understand DDR being a major limiting factor, but at 2.4 GHz with 150 FSB is it really that much of a loss? of coarse I can see PC2400 isn't giving 3100 support of Rambus, but I think it would certainly be more performance than the 1533 MHz AMD.

If my response is brief and vague its because the info you provided is too!

Quote:
Actually I have an 1800+ at 1800+ speed (11.5 x 133) and when I overclock its not stable. Temps are fine though around 45C full load with 1.85 volts and 1633 MHz speed. Also at the insane speed of 3GHz I can understand DDR being a major limiting factor, but at 2.4 GHz with 150 FSB is it really that much of a loss? of coarse I can see PC2400 isn't giving 3100 support of Rambus, but I think it would certainly be more performance than the 1533 MHz AMD.


If I were you I would wait for the tbred, then you will have a nice massive overclock, I am just not seeing justification for spending 300 bucks for such a small performance gain, when in a month you can spend 200 bucks and overclock the tbred to hell!

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:

actually I won't have to spend any money to upgrade to a P4 because someone would be purchasing my machiine. I'd actually make money if the retail 1.6a comes with the AVC cooler.

If my response is brief and vague its because the info you provided is too!

If I were you, I would get a tbred with that gained money, more performance than the 1.6a (if what I think comes to pass).

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:

I wouldn't waste your time with that upgrade. The performance difference is negligible. I would reformat your hard drive though and this time around you should be able to get by with just WinXP. I've never even heard of a triple boot :) 

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>

Quote:
Actually I have an 1800+ at 1800+ speed (11.5 x 133) and when I overclock its not stable.

You can run your XP1800+ at 166MHz FSB and up (although you need to unlock it) without overclock AGP and PCI with your Abit KR7A mobo (I have the same mobo like yours and I've been running my XP1600 at 168*10) provided your RAM can handle at that speed.

:smile: Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.

I've run the ram 160 MHz CAS 2-2-2 with agressive memory timings before. The CPU was a 1.4 GHz Tbird with which I dropped the multiplier to 10 so I had a 1600 MHz chip. So theres a chance my Corsair PC2400 might be high quality enough to run PC2700.
It seems like the ideal way to overclock a 1.6 northwood with DDR ram would be to keep the 3:4 fsb mem clock and run 150 FSB giving you 200x2 DDR memory bus. Which would be PC3200 spec and giving pentium 4 LOTS of memory bus. Now its just being able to choose the best chipset for this kind of overclocking, and getting high quality ram.
Also I wonder how much Thoroughbred will cost when its released.

If my response is brief and vague its because the info you provided is too!

Quote:
Also I wonder how much Thoroughbred will cost when its released.


Same price as whatever chips it replaces, and the new models will probably cost the same as the 2100+(new chip cost).

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:

In reply to:
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i just wish i could play my old games on winXP...


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Have you tried rightclicking on the old games .exe file. then -) properties -) compability (i think its compability, i don´t run english version) then choose "run with w95 compability"

works with really old games like duneII




<font color=purple> english first language nono</font color=purple>

beleive me, i have tried it all... i just can't get my beloved Pirates!Gold to work in XP... i do get a fun memory error though...

yeah, it is compatibility...

The best accelerator available for a Mac is one that causes it to go at 9.81 m/s2

P4 1.6a @ 2.4 GHz through 150 FSB with 3:4 FSB:MEM ratio giving me DDR400, PC3200 (more than PC800 rambus but only slightly)
Considerably cheaper, and faster than even a 2100+
$130 for CPU
$150 for mobo
$145 for 512 megs of Samsung True PC2700
Stock heat sink :smile:

The stability is amazing, and performance is great. I would never actually pay for a 2.4 GHz chip though, its a rip off. And now we know Tbred isn't quite the overclocker everyone hoped. That might change, but of right now its not to likely. I 'overclocked to hell' with my P4 and its a good value, no doubt a 1.6a at stock speed is quite pathetic compared to an Athlon XP 1600+, well not pathetic, but I think you guys understand. And with ram that'll do DDR400 I think I'm ready for Hammer upon its release.

Gosh I'm such a nerd sometimes, but then again arn't we all. :smile:
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