Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Intel users - all ignorant and uninformed!

Last response: in CPUs
Share
April 11, 2002 12:00:34 AM

Intel users - all ignorant and uninformed...., and there is an exception some times when the Intel user wants to give $300 more for P4@2400MHz instead an AthonXP2100+ and gain a performance increase of 5%(and that is even SOMETIMES).

AMD user!
YES!!! Former Intel user.
April 11, 2002 12:39:56 AM

what about those who use both AMD and Intel processors? dual or double ignorant and uninformed?

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
April 11, 2002 12:42:26 AM

Quote:
Intel users - all ignorant and uninformed....,

This just doesn't contribute to anything.

Mmmm... Red Hot
Related resources
April 11, 2002 12:45:55 AM

I would change or delete that topic to preserve a well welcomed addition to THG's Community if I was you. This will lead to nowhere. You should learn Meltdown is a troll, not a normal poster here who posted such crap, so don't copy off him and be immature to post such.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
April 11, 2002 12:50:02 AM

this is all pointless...need i say more...

<b><font color=red>ATI</font color=red>'s drivers are like a broken faucet, they both keep on leaking...</b> :cool:
April 11, 2002 12:53:18 AM

was it the same? What AMDMeltDown posted was a link to emulators.com. Not everyone thinks what that guy from emulators.com says is crap.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
April 11, 2002 12:58:11 AM

No it isn't, because the guy is right, AMD has trouble for now, and Intel has FINALLY gotten the P4 up where it should be. But Melty does it worse, he flings it at us and treats us like morons.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
April 11, 2002 12:58:37 AM

Move along people, nothing to see here.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
April 11, 2002 1:01:32 AM

intel users-

sometimes they want a quiet system that won't be hot enough to fry an egg on (it's been done), or they live in korea and are tired of being screwed over.

<i>My life wasn't complete untill I tried sse-2 optimized pong</i>
April 11, 2002 1:05:39 AM

1. Intel systems run "hotter" than AMD systems at this time. You could fry an egg better on the P4s heat spreader (as FatBurger pointed out) anyway.

2. Where and when was it proven that Korean AMD users were being screwed over? No one proved that.


Mmmm... Red Hot
April 11, 2002 1:44:25 AM

but who are we? I also have Athlon Thunderbird, Duron, and Athlon XP. "AMD Users - all..." was not conclusion but a question from the emulators.com guy. he received threats and insults from some people and that was the reason why it was even publicized in The Inquirer. If AMDMeltDown insulted you for wrong reasons, then he's wrong. anyway, NOBODY will support AMDMeltDown if he's completely wrong and bad. anyone can be right or wrong sometimes and true or false. I do find some of his postings interesting and informative though some of them seem to flame AMD enthusiasts. still not enough reason to call him moron. if you want AMDMeltDown to stop calling you "Mongrels" why don't you do the same first? what you are doing is closer to personal attack.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
April 11, 2002 1:50:45 AM

Actually most of the time in our own threads, he comes in and calls us mongrels, when we didn't do nothing. Sorry but that's what started the troll war, and why we refer to him as that. Internet lingo uses that, and even Raystonn considers him so, being an Intel employee.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
April 11, 2002 1:54:18 AM

you don't have to agree on being proved or not. time will tell. if it's either correct or wrong, I know I spoke the truth over what I knew, felt, heard, read, and observed. only because there are not many published English web links does not mean it's not a fact.

anyway, I lost most interest about the AMD Korea issue and that's why I deleted the post and I wanted to stop mostly meaningless things.

as far as I remember, only me, Cutepunk, and three more guys said the same thing about the issue. the reason is most people in Korea do not usually visit here and would write in English. that does not mean you can completely ignore the few people who do come here and post in English.

btw, you really love to use the same thing again and again.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
April 11, 2002 1:58:16 AM

Quote:
btw, you really love to use the same thing again and again.

What the hell are you talking about? This is the first time I've posted on the subject. Blah-di blah-di, we're all sick of talking about AMD Korea, nice to hear you are, too.

And you're right, I don't have to agree. No one here has to. No one here does (with you).

Mmmm... Red Hot
April 11, 2002 2:02:24 AM

I did not read everything. but the only time I did read when Raystonn called someone troll was some time last year when he talked about the possibility of 72Gbps RDRAM memory bandwidth.

if many of you call him troll and moron, isn't it enough? does everyone who visits THGC have to repeat the same thing? anyway, the part who use less insults and civilized language will get more support from everyone. the same with me and maybe that's one point why Ranstonn's respected from both sides. if you can admit there has been a war, THGC will be a much better place to talk about processors and computers. also less sickening and depressing.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
April 11, 2002 2:05:00 AM

so you think the people who do agree with me are ghosts and non-humans? don't say you never read them.

the you was plural, not singular.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
a b à CPUs
April 11, 2002 2:11:14 AM

Hmm, I'm using a PIII because 2 years ago, when I built this system, there were no good chipsets available for the Athlon. Remember the Irongate? Or the KT133? Sounds like I made the "informed" decision at the time.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
April 11, 2002 2:43:10 AM

Quote:
there is an exception some times when the Intel user wants to give $300 more for P4@2400MHz instead an AthonXP2100+

What about when you can spend $133 for a 1.6 GHz northwood and overclock to 2.1-2.4 GHz range? Motherboards AMD or Intel all mostly cost the same, and when you team Pentium 4 with DDR its just as expensive as AMD systems.
I'm thinking of selling my 1800+ mobo, and hsf and getting a 1.6 for overclocking. Not sure if I really want to go intel though.....

If my response is brief and vague its because the info you provided is too!
April 11, 2002 2:52:46 AM

Hmm. I did read all the posts, but I didn't notice anyone really agreeing with you. Some gave you the benefit of the doubt, because you were so adamant, but in light of some of the discussion that happened later, I'm not sure that anyone has much sympathy. Sorry dude.

And don't call me an AMD fanatic for this. I just think your points were quite unsupported. When asked to prove things you simply cried louder. It's a shame if Korean re-sellers/merchants were misleading their customers, but it's a bigger shame that AMD was being so lenient for so long.

Mmmm... Red Hot
April 11, 2002 2:56:49 AM

Not to be rude, but please let us drop this. I really cannot stand to see another war with kennyshin involved, which undoubtedly will lead to a politics war too!

SO DROP IT THE TWO OF YOU AND PEACE OUT!

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
April 11, 2002 2:59:21 AM

Quote:
But Melty does it worse, he flings it at us and treats us like morons.

boo hoo, if you feel like moron then maybe you are one(moron is too good of a word to describe you!) and if I "fling it" w/link then why don't you fling it right back as well?

I hope to continue the flinging stuff at your faces it makes me happy, go cry to mommie now.

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
April 11, 2002 3:23:10 AM

I really don't like you, if I had one wish for the forums it'd be for you to go away. You treat people so bad I can't even begin to imagine how your parents raised you to have so little respect for others. EVEN if it is the internet your treatment of others is horrible. Grow up and learn what respect is. Maybe even try treating others how you'd like to be treated. I'm sure you don't want people always insulting you for no reason and being a complete dicks.

If my response is brief and vague its because the info you provided is too!
April 11, 2002 3:23:45 AM

clarify.

1. you want proof for exactly what?
2. AMD was lenient based on what evidence?

you chose to believe what said against the Korean users and ignore the part criticizing AMD. Am I wrong?

if you do not trust anything, why do you say everything is the fault of Korean reseller/merchants? you saw proof for concluding so and never saw anyone agreeing with me? Korean resellers and merchants mislead their customers and AMD has zero part in it? How do you know that better than I do? You have more proof than I do and know more about the Korean market and how AMD Korea operates in Korea? Are you sure you are not just defending AMD and blaming everything on the part of the Koreans? Don't call me a racist but just make your assumptions and conclusions consistent.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
April 11, 2002 3:38:44 AM

I am on no side and attack none. What I did was mostly here quoting and explanations. How many times have I said nothing was personal? What I said concerning AMD Korea was just mostly what most AMD users here in Korea felt and said about the issue and since they had no voice overseas, I tried to see what the response might be in English-language forums. That's all. At first, I advised the Korean users to contact AMD Sunnyvale, major US and international news sites and US government organizations but none seemed to do that. So I did a small-scale experiment. Well, it spreaded to AMD:Intel, US:Arab, etc though it had been almost the same for years here without me.

anyway, if I am trying to understand all of you, do the same. if you don't want to do it, you have no right to call me anything or say I am wrong or to be banned.

Searching for the true, the beautiful, and the eternal
April 11, 2002 3:53:23 AM

Quote:
I am on no side and attack none.


Have you been taking lessons from Van Smith or Chris Tom?

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
April 11, 2002 4:16:25 AM

Quote:
let us drop this.

fair enough. I'm done with it as of...
...now. :smile:

But I mean really- what the heck else do we have to talk about? The Northwood is here, the Tbred not. There are no major wars to fight in the CPU section :wink: . Until AMD releases some new stuff for MeltDown to bash, it could be boring around here. (thus all of the politics talk)


Mmmm... Red Hot
April 11, 2002 6:31:06 AM

Quote:
sometimes they want a quiet system that won't be hot enough to fry an egg on (it's been done), or they live in korea and are tired of being screwed over.


Lol, willamette was hotter than the axp.
and the only people getting screwed in korea was amd.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
April 11, 2002 8:47:13 AM

i think wat kristijan is trying to say is that both amd AND intel users can be ignorant and misinformed at times. one is no better than the other. an intel user calling an amd user ignorant is himself ignorant and vice versa.therefore this thread is pointless.

how do you set a laser printer to stun?
April 11, 2002 11:55:34 AM

religious talk huh?

my imaginary friend is better than yours!!!
:smile:

You're an embarrisment to nature you know that?
April 11, 2002 2:12:57 PM

He may be doing that, and it is probably true. But is there any need for this to be pointed out? All it looks like is an AMD fan just taking a shot at intel. Can't we just get along instead of resorting to flaming threads like this.

Whatcha gonna do when the trolls run wild on you?!?!?!
April 11, 2002 2:18:01 PM

We already know that when they are compared that AMD has more bang per buck. If money is no object, why not go with intel? The high end chips are basically for the really uniformed, people with a lot of money, or people that need a lot for computing power. The only bad part is the uniformed if you have a slick salesmen trying to tell somebody that they need the newest when they can't really afford it, but get talked into it.

Whatcha gonna do when the trolls run wild on you?!?!?!
April 11, 2002 3:00:55 PM

it would be nice if we could all just get along but it doesnt seem to work like that. mainly because neither side will admit that the other has a decent product. both are as bad as the other (or as good as the other :tongue: ). i personally prefer amd and i dont like the way intel operates sometimes but they do have a good cpu! just not as good as amd's :wink: j/k


how do you set a laser printer to stun?
April 11, 2002 3:30:17 PM

Damn, I run Intel and AMD, so I guess I'm double-ignorant, uneducated and uninformed.

I'd better go get a VIA processor.

"There's no such thing as gravity, the Earth just sucks."
April 11, 2002 5:22:48 PM

No, I don't think intel system runs hotter. If it was running hotter then how come mfgr are using the P4 desktop processors in laptops. Can you say that about Athlons, I don't think they can be used in laptops.

KG

<b>"Hey! It compiles! Ship it!"</b>
April 11, 2002 5:50:03 PM

Athlon 4 laptops even came out before P4 laptops (which only just arrived).

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
April 11, 2002 5:52:08 PM

Quote:
No, I don't think intel system runs hotter. If it was running hotter then how come mfgr are using the P4 desktop processors in laptops. Can you say that about Athlons, I don't think they can be used in laptops.


The willamette was hotter, and there are moble athlons, ever hear of the athlon 4, 1600+ is the fastest mobile speed.

The northwood is cooler, but when the tbred comes out it should return to baseline.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
April 11, 2002 7:53:32 PM

Would that mean that Tbred is going to be cooler per clock than Northwood, if the relativity was that Willy was hotter than Tbird and Palomino?

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
April 11, 2002 8:00:01 PM

If the willamette was copper and not aluminum, I would say yes, but since as I have said, the northwood shrunk the process AND went to copper, most comparisons would go out the window.


There is a good chance that the tbred will be cooler per performance than the northwood yes.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
April 11, 2002 8:17:29 PM

So then where are the limits or the factors that would make OCing a Tbred much less effective? I know Fugger spews FUD out and lies, but still how can we know of its overclockability?

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 11, 2002 8:35:06 PM

Quote:
So then where are the limits or the factors that would make OCing a Tbred much less effective?

Well, I don't know if you remember Intel engineers to an Athlon XP apart and examined it under a microscope. They found that the core was using below 0.18 micron at places. This suggests that maybe AMD had to shrink the core at strategic places in order to make it clock higher than the old Thunderbird. Of course, now when they are moving to 0.13 micron technology, they same "below 0.18 micron" places has to be made with "below 0.13 micron" in order to "fit" with the rest of the core.

Now, I'm just wild guessing and trying to figure out why they used below 0.18 micron at various places in the core for the Athlon XP.

Certainly it could explain the delay (it's difficult to make "below 0.13 micron" with todays technology) and also reported problems with overclocking.

/Copenhagen
April 11, 2002 8:38:09 PM

I Know there are Mobile Athlons and there are also Mobile P4. I was talking about putting the Desktop Processor in the Mobile plateform. And I don't think you can put the Desktop Athlon in Mobile platform. Thats not the case for P4 northwood. Please report the fact.

KG

<b>"Hey! It compiles! Ship it!"</b>
April 11, 2002 8:49:50 PM

That doesn't necessarily mean that they're using "below .13 micron" in the Thoroughbred. Thunderbird was all .18 micron, there's no reason it can't be done.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
April 11, 2002 8:58:40 PM

So you're saying that the desktop and mobile P4s are the same chip? It's not. Different packaging and sleep modes are the only big differences, but that's the same differences the Athlon 4 has. A quick trip to Intel.com and AMD.com verified that, except for the Athlon 4's packaging, which I was unable to be sure about, although it appeared to be a normal socket A.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 11, 2002 9:03:42 PM

Quote:
Thunderbird was all .18 micron, there's no reason it can't be done.

Yes, Thunderbird was all .18 micron, and that was able to take it to 1400MHz, at which speed it was hot like hell. The Athlon XP got copper interconnects, i believe, and also these "below 0.18 micron" gate designs at various places, according to Intel. The Athlon architecture was never designed for really high speed in the same way as the P4, and I think that AMD was foorced to implement "below 0.18 micron" in order to push it further than 1400MHz.

/Copenhagen
April 11, 2002 9:10:57 PM

Anyone also notice that AMDMeltDown tends to shutup when he's out numbered. Wat, is he like a 12-year old?

"The answer to life's problems aren't at the bottom of a beer bottle, they're on TV."
April 11, 2002 9:30:43 PM

I know Mobile P4 and Desktop P4 chips are not the same. Let me re-start. We have different cpu for mobile and different cpu desktop. Their core design is same. They mostly differ in packaging and implementation of power requirement. You made a point in the previous post that Intel processor produces more heat then AMD processors. I just wanted to correct that because it's not true anymore. If P4 are producing more heat then Athlons then I don't think vendor would put the same desktop chip in the mobile platform. There are laptops available from different vendors which uses desktop P4 cpu instead of mobile P4 cpu. So what I was trying to make a point is that if it was producing more heat then Athlon then Why don't we see Athlon desktop processor in mobile?

KG

<b>"Hey! It compiles! Ship it!"</b>
April 11, 2002 9:46:39 PM

I say it produces more heat because mine does, not because I'm guessing at why manufacturers do what they do.

BTW, which OEMs use the desktop version? That would chew through batteries like there's no tomorrow.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by FatBurger on 04/11/02 03:00 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 12, 2002 12:58:34 AM

Quote:
The Athlon architecture was never designed for really high speed in the same way as the P4,

Well that was pretty obvious, the same could be said for the PIII too. P4 is a new architecture, much different, so we can't compare high speed attainement for both. However the Hammer might have better speed ramping thanks to SOI, IHS, 0.13m and 12 Stage pipeline.
About that Intel research on AMD's gate lenghs, personally, if AMD was able to use 0.13m technology so early on, then I would congratulate them on such good refinement and well researched. It got the Athlon core more than it wanted at 0.18m!

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
April 12, 2002 9:18:49 AM

Quote:
Well, I don't know if you remember Intel engineers to an Athlon XP apart and examined it under a microscope. They found that the core was using below 0.18 micron at places. This suggests that maybe AMD had to shrink the core at strategic places in order to make it clock higher than the old Thunderbird. Of course, now when they are moving to 0.13 micron technology, they same "below 0.18 micron" places has to be made with "below 0.13 micron" in order to "fit" with the rest of the core.



The gatelengths were .13 class which are not a direct result of small process size, intel was basically spouting fud. If the smaller gatelengths of the axp have any effect on the max clock of the tbred it will be minimal.


My 40-55% guess was based on the p3>tuallitin shrink which comes the closest to the axp>tbred shrink in pure change./


The top speed of the p3 .18 was 1.1ghz, the top speed of the tually is around 1.6-1.7ghz, there is no physical reason this would be different for the axp>tbred.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
April 12, 2002 9:22:04 AM

Quote:
The Athlon XP got copper interconnects, i believe, and also these "below 0.18 micron" gate designs at various places, according to Intel.


The gate lengths were smaller, this is sign of a refined process, NOT a direct relation to process size, also the tbird had copper ics already.

Quote:
The Athlon architecture was never designed for really high speed in the same way as the P4, and I think that AMD was foorced to implement "below 0.18 micron" in order to push it further than 1400MHz.


Raystonn said himself the p3 was designed to top out at 1ghz, and now the tually can reaCH 1.6GHZ, we dont even know what speed the axp was designed to run, but I guarentee you it is not near the limits of its design by a longshot. The p4's intrinsic advantage has already been accounted for in the fact that while it gains 655-65% top speed, it is gaining it from 2.2ghz putting them roughly at 3.5ghz+, whil;e a 55% gain on the axp will put it around 2.4ghz or so, probably more, which is much slower in pure clock than the p4.



:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
!