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64-bit OS's - life or death for AMD?

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April 13, 2002 2:09:14 AM

Interesting thread <A HREF="http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=375..." target="_new">here</A> discussing 64-bit OSes. Just thought I'd point it out and start up a similar conversation here. I'll repost my last statement in that thread to get it going.

Quote:
No, you actually make a good point. I doubt that it's as high a percentage as you think, but there are quite a few Linux servers out there.

However, the major market segment we're talking about here is us. The Clawhammer is supposed to take over for the Athlon. Not right at first of course, but eventually. AMD doesn't want a server-only CPU, since they have nothing else to replace the market, and Athlon won't last them forever. Microsoft owns the home market, we all know that. AMD can't get any home market share to speak of without a Microsoft OS.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/guides/viewfaq.html?i=112" target="_new">Here</A> is a great article over at Anandtech that explains some of the myths and realities of 64-bit computing. Great read.

Anyhow, the reason that AMD wouldn't survive in a server-only market is because it's owned by OEMs. Unless AMD suddenly has a complete turnaround and is more recognized by HP, Compaq and Dell, they don't have a chance. The Compaq merger will help AMD a lot, since industry rumors are saying that Compaq's x86 server lines are what's going to be kept around. Compaq is about the only huge OEM that carries AMD, and is the biggest seller of x86 servers. This has great potential for AMD, but isn't enough to balance out the lack of Microsoft OS support.
I think Microsoft will turn around and produce an x86-64 OS, but we'll have to wait and see. They haven't even announced it yet, which means it most likely will not be finished by release.


<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft

More about : bit life death amd

April 13, 2002 2:16:09 AM

The thing is burger, the clawhammer will have awesome perormance in 32 bit mode, the 64bit is just icing on the cake.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
April 13, 2002 4:48:45 PM

You shouldn’t jump to conclusions Mat. We all thought the P4 would be stellar as well, but seems to be lacking in certain areas. Don’t think AMD is infallible to not living up to expectations look at the thoroughbred. There hasn’t even been the usual 3 month retailer channel announcement of a new product such as this. My rep at my supplier has no idea when it will show up either. Seem like early summer is a good goal for them at this point. The claw hammer looks promising but so did the P4.

-Jeremy


<font color=blue>Just some advice from your friendly neighborhood blue man </font color=blue> :smile:
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April 13, 2002 4:57:58 PM

The P4 had one flaw from the start, the extra long pipeline. The ClawHammer's pipeline is only slightly longer but you're getting a better integrated memory controller, hypertransport, better cache management. There is nothing in the ClawHammer's specs that might hold it back except perhaps MHz/GHz.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
April 13, 2002 5:09:43 PM

And before the P4 release it already had a huge group of critics, not including the regular AMD supporters. With the hammer AMD said it will be the fastest processor for 32bit computing, and not many people are arguing.

<font color=red><b>A man is only as old as the woman he feels</b></font color=red>
April 13, 2002 5:55:49 PM

Quote:
We all thought the P4 would be stellar as well

Actually, many technically-minded people were pretty certain the P4 <i>wouldn't</i> be stellar on release. The Clawhammer may or may not be stellar, but its tech specs look a great deal more promising than those of the pre-released P4.

<i>If a server crashes in a server farm and no one pings it, does it still cost four figures to fix?
April 13, 2002 7:48:45 PM

Quote:
The Compaq merger will help AMD a lot, since industry rumors are saying that Compaq's x86 server lines are what's going to be kept around. Compaq is about the only huge OEM that carries AMD, and is the biggest seller of x86 servers.

I disagree - I think that the HP/Compaq merger will do nothing but hurt the Hammer. While HP and Compaq have been selling a limited supply of "consumer" oriented Athlon based systems - it is the corporate market where the big bucks are. Neither company offers corporate systems based on AMD procs. HP is completely behind IA-64 - it is, after all, partly their design. Compaq is dumping the "all-powerful" Alpha for IA-64. With the merger it will further relegate AMD to "consumer" status. I think that one of the FTC conditions for the merger should be a requirement (never gonna happen) to open up to using AMD procs in corporate systems. Fujitsu-Siemens has shown the viability of using AMD in Europe and Asia, but Intel is maintaining an "Intel Inside" stranglehold on the NA corporate market by threatening the marketing subsidies of companies looking at developing AMD based corporate systems.

From what I have heard, I believe that MS has already developed an x86-64 version of Windows. I think they are using it to get leverage over Intel (and maybe AMD, too) for another purpose (like the prosecution said and judges agreed they did with Java - "Hand over the *fill in the blank* or we'll support AMD," etc.).

I thought a thought, but the thought I thought wasn't the thought I thought I had thought.
April 13, 2002 10:38:48 PM

Quote:
Neither company offers corporate systems based on AMD procs.


I agree, but I'm also talking about desktop systems, which is where Clawhammer is supposed to go. If Clawhammer is a success, I can see Sledgehammer starting to get more support in low-end server systems.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
April 13, 2002 11:05:54 PM

i thought the willy was going to be good too, until they gutted it...

:wink: Engineering is the science of making life simple, by making it more complicated.
April 14, 2002 12:32:46 AM

i see what there saying about the OEM's.... but most of us..or the smart ones...don't buy OEM, we build out own... the actual bad thing is, if AMD doesn't get there foot in the door and start getting OEM's to push there product more...us "smart buyers" will be Sh*t out of luck! and amd might go UNDER! God for bid..

This Community is like a Second Family!!
April 14, 2002 12:48:53 AM

The market for us system builders is not nearly as big as the OEM market or the corporate market. Although our way of doing things may be smarter and more cost efficient, not everyone can build their own system. Therefore, if AMD does not convince more box makers like DELL, IBM, etc.... to use their products, AMD will be a severly hurt company. Especially since most companies buy almost exclusively from box makers and they make up the largest portion of the computer market. For example at my work, all of our computers are Dells. They have always been and probably always will be. We are just starting to get a new shipment of P4s to replace our P3s.
April 14, 2002 12:53:17 AM

better integrated memory controller, hypertransport, better cache management

AMd will still have a slower memory controleur vs intel but it will be in the CPU.
Hyper trasport intel got nothing to beat that.
Better cache management.No better just look at the article of L2 cache.P3 have still a better cache that hammer.

cheap, cheap. Think cheap, and you'll always be cheap.AMD version of semi conducteur industrie
April 14, 2002 1:02:39 AM

Quote:

AMd will still have a slower memory controleur vs intel but it will be in the CPU.

Slower memory controller? Where are you getting this from?


Quote:

Hyper trasport intel got nothing to beat that.

Intel has Hypertransport before AMD when AMD designed it?

Quote:

Better cache management.No better just look at the article of L2 cache.P3 have still a better cache that hammer.

Give me the link. 256-bit doesn't necessary mean better performance. Better cache management means less cache misses.


AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
April 14, 2002 1:03:00 AM

****I agree, but I'm also talking about desktop systems, which is where Clawhammer is supposed to go. If Clawhammer is a success, I can see Sledgehammer starting to get more support in low-end server systems.***


claw hammer dont impresse me a bit is still a the old K7 with a couple of tweak but we must call it K8 because of 64bit instruction (who will recompile anyway).Sledgehammer will smash so hard Xeon.Gallatine stant it chance vs sledgehammer.

To all the forum please dont not talk of itanium if you dont know of what you speak that include link from the inquirer.

Also dont try o compare hammer with itanium

cheap, cheap. Think cheap, and you'll always be cheap.AMD version of semi conducteur industrie
April 14, 2002 2:51:31 AM

Quote:
claw hammer dont impresse me a bit is still a the old K7 with a couple of tweak but we must call it K8 because of 64bit instruction (who will recompile anyway).Sledgehammer will smash so hard Xeon.Gallatine stant it chance vs sledgehammer.

To all the forum please dont not talk of itanium if you dont know of what you speak that include link from the inquirer.

Also dont try o compare hammer with itanium

rofl!

I run duals because i multitask between notepad, outlook express and winamp :lol: 
April 14, 2002 4:46:28 AM

Juin is the king of Intel core references. He keeps mentioning core names we rarely discuss or hear about! When it's about McKinley, he has core names stated 2 years after McKinley's release!

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
April 14, 2002 7:11:15 AM

i know which cpus he's talking about <A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/10040206.htm" target="_new">here</A>
server chips with 1mb or 2mb L3 cache. intel has supposedly and ubruptly cut what little production time was left for the tualatin, these will be out by the end of this year. what i was laughing at was his attempt at english. sorry, but i wouldn't go over and post at a japanese site if i solely relied on bablefish to understand the language.

I run duals because i multitask between notepad, outlook express and winamp :lol: 
April 14, 2002 8:07:13 AM

Quote:
I agree, but I'm also talking about desktop systems, which is where Clawhammer is supposed to go. If Clawhammer is a success, I can see Sledgehammer starting to get more support in low-end server systems.

I was also talking about desktop systems - in addition to server systems. No tier-one vendors in NA currently sell corporate oriented AMD based notebook, desktop, workstation, or server systems - other than 1 or 2 odd systems that have no market potential and are quickly removed from the market. The HP/Compaq merger will consolitate two of the companies that are playing this game. With two separate companies, IMHO, we would have double the chance one of them (Compaq most likely - as they have one obscure corporate notebook model) would release corporate oriented AMD-based machines. With them merged it will be double the difficulty for AMD to get a US based tier-one to finally "do the right thing" and refuse to succomb to the Intel marketing machine's pressure.

I thought a thought, but the thought I thought wasn't the thought I thought I had thought.
April 14, 2002 10:06:57 AM

rofl!
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V

if <b>you know</b> <font color=white>you don't know<i><font color=black>, the way could be more easy ...<font color=red>
April 14, 2002 10:10:44 AM

i wish i would draw it to you but i cant. :)  lol


if <b>you know</b> <font color=white>you don't know<i><font color=black>, the way could be more easy ...<font color=red>
April 14, 2002 11:48:56 AM

Quote:
No tier-one vendors in NA currently sell corporate oriented AMD based notebook, desktop, workstation, or server systems

Compaq sells a corporate oriented notebook with an Athlon processor, as well as their consumer oriented notebook models.

Mark-

<font color=blue>When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!</font color=blue>
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