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When the players have a better idea

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June 14, 2005 6:29:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Followup to the discussion of ad-libbing. (Is there another, better
name for this?)


I prefer ad-libbing to fudging, but I don't do either all that much.
And my favorite sort of ad-libbing isn't done to fix a problem. It's
when a player has A Better Idea than mine.

Example: the PCs are going through the dungeon and find the gnolls'
food storage cavern. This is a boring room added purely for a bit of
realism, and perhaps the chance to do something clever if the PCs think
to destroy the food supplies. (Logistical attacks on monsters are a
sadly neglected tactic.)

PC: I'm opening some of the barrels. What's inside?
GM: Oh, just grain. Looks like they ripped off some of the local
farmers.
PC: I'll open some more barrels. All grain?
GM: No, there's um, some dried fruit and, um, dried fish.
PC: Dried fish? Fresh water or salt?
GM: [thinking, what the hell] Uh... salt. Mackerel.
PC: Hey, we're a long way from the ocean. How'd these guys get dried
mackerel?
PC: Wait! What if they got it from Port Zigo?
PC: Oh yeah! That would totally make sense! If they were allied with
the sorcerors of Port Zigo? That would explain where they got that
fire elemental!
PC: Yeah, I was wondering how a bunch of stupid hyena-heads would have
something like that! But if the Shadow Cabinet is bankrolling them...
PC: ...right! They'd have access to all sorts of things like that!
PC: Oh my gosh, what if the Cabinet sends an orange-robe to check this
out? I mean, we know they hate it when their minions get killed...
PC: You're right. This changes everything. We better get moving.

Now, usually when this happens the DM just rolls his eyes. But
occasionally the PCs come up with something that's really beautiful,
and better than the DM's original idea. The example above is almost
verbatim from MC a while back, and the lair of the gnolls -- a small,
rather bland dungeon that was supposed to be a brief hack'n'slash
diversion for a session or two -- suddenly woke up and crackled with
threat and meaning.

Anyone else have this happen?


Waldo

More about : players idea

Anonymous
June 14, 2005 8:36:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Waldo wrote:
> I prefer ad-libbing to fudging, but I don't do either all that much.
> And my favorite sort of ad-libbing isn't done to fix a problem. It's
> when a player has A Better Idea than mine.

<snip>

> Now, usually when this happens the DM just rolls his eyes. But
> occasionally the PCs come up with something that's really beautiful,
> and better than the DM's original idea.

> Anyone else have this happen?

It happened 'cause I got lost in flavour details.

IMCC, the leader of the Dark Army is known to posess/have posessed a
"Dragonmace" (+9/+10 weapons that also function as sceptres of power.)

PC: We research the history of Dragonmaces. Who has one? Who used to
have one?
DM: There were only ... ummm (quick counting) ... eight ever made. Six
of them are known today. They belong to the Emperor himself and the
highest ranking nobles ot the Empire. Two of them are lost: one
belonged to the Emperor's great-great-[great]-grandfather and he had to
abandon it when he fled the battle of ... umm... the Fields of
Battleesium, the other one belonged to old Duke Villainus and it
disappeared with him.

[You already guess who leads the Dark Army, but my PCs thought
further.]

PC: Five? I thought you said there are only FOUR Dukes of the Blood in
the Empire. Who's the fifth?
DM: *slaps forehead* I did? Oh, yes, of course I did! They belong to
the four Dukes and ... ummm ... this Count. The Count is ... ummm ... a
distant relative of the Emperor, always wanted his province to be a
Duchy and lobbied for that status. He kind of has the right because
he's of the blood, his province has grown larger than some of the old
Duchies and he's filthy rich. So (yeah!) he got a mace to keep quiet.
[There! Satisfied? It's accounted for. Forget it! Focus on the missing
ones!]

PC: Ohhhhh ... so I guess the Count decided to take things in his own
hands. He's attacking THIS province in disguise. Either way he wins.
DM: Huh? What? How?
PC: If he wins the war, he has conquered this one and can call himself
a Duke. Not an Imperial Duke, but still ... On the other hand, if it
looks like his army is losing, he can throw down his disguise, switch
sides, and rescue us, giving him more leverage in his lobbying.

DM: No, no, no! [frantically] He is this little nice elderly gentleman,
a scholar and an artist. His lobbying has always been polite,
considerate and well thought out. He really doesn't seem the type ...
PC: Does he have children.
DM: [groan] Yes.
PC: Any of them in the army?
DM: [GROAN!] Yes. (one of them HAD to be in the army.)
PC: Then it's the Count's SON!!!

Neat plot, but it would've required too many changes.

Silveraxe.
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:17:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> In article <1118741383.206066.297090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> peggoliathy@yahoo.com says...
>
> > I prefer ad-libbing to fudging, but I don't do either all that much.
> > And my favorite sort of ad-libbing isn't done to fix a problem. It's
> > when a player has A Better Idea than mine.
> >
> > [snip example]
> >
> > Anyone else have this happen?
>
> Yes. I can't recall of any particular instances right now, but I
> sometimes even use this technique intentionally, by leaving open some
> questions I can't really figure out the answers to, and then just
> listening to the players' theories, and adapting the one I like best to
> be "true".
>
> It reduces the workload for the DM, and ensures the players get to feel
> smart for figuring out the clues!
>

Reminds me of the technique in Critical Miss to stall for time if you
haven't come up with a scenario for the evening:

1) take all their stuff
2) stick them in a cell
3) let them keep coming up with ideas, denying them all
4) as soon as you have /your/ stuff together, give a knowing nod to the
next ridiculously complicated idea that's thrown out and allow it to
succeed.
5) proceed with your shoddy, hastily constructed adventure

On the subject of fudging, what's the consensus on fudging dungeon
rooms? I was surprised when someone I know was mortally appalled that
it often doesn't matter which direction my players go, they encounter
rooms and creatures in the order I choose. Not all the time, mind you,
but I think it's an effective way to railroad without it /feeling/ like
I'm railroading.
Related resources
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 3:15:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Waldo" <peggoliathy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1118741383.206066.297090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> PC: I'm opening some of the barrels. What's inside?
> GM: Oh, just grain. Looks like they ripped off some of the local
> farmers.
> PC: I'll open some more barrels. All grain?
> GM: No, there's um, some dried fruit and, um, dried fish.
> PC: Dried fish? Fresh water or salt?
> GM: [thinking, what the hell] Uh... salt. Mackerel.
> PC: Hey, we're a long way from the ocean. How'd these guys get dried
> mackerel?
> PC: Wait! What if they got it from Port Zigo?
> PC: Oh yeah! That would totally make sense! If they were allied with
> the sorcerors of Port Zigo? That would explain where they got that
> fire elemental!
> PC: Yeah, I was wondering how a bunch of stupid hyena-heads would have
> something like that! But if the Shadow Cabinet is bankrolling them...
> PC: ...right! They'd have access to all sorts of things like that!
> PC: Oh my gosh, what if the Cabinet sends an orange-robe to check this
> out? I mean, we know they hate it when their minions get killed...
> PC: You're right. This changes everything. We better get moving.

You forgot to add the part about the DM making mental notes about
EVERYTHING. ;) 

I do that a lot. The PC's come up with some wildly unlikely scenario for
how something added for simple color, and they basically write their own
villain up. I've been known to do that from time to time.

I added a rumor that there's a vampire running around the woods killing
beasts and such for a bit of flavor (actually it was a giant spider killing
the cattle). They ended up assuming that the person they were going after
simply HAD to be a vampire. ... .... *pause to think a bit*.... yeah, I
can work that in to the adventure... All of a sudden, the BBEG was assumed
to be a vampire, and I did everything I could to ensure that this notion was
never questioned. The BBEG had a bunch of vampire literature around,
avoided daylight, coffins scattered about the place, and so on, but he's
just like a goth wannabe or something, he would LIKE to be a vampire but
really he's not. He even had a potion of gaseous form that he took for the
case where he needed to escape in a hurry(which he did). The players bought
it hook line and sinker, and now they think he's a vampire. Oh well. I
think they might get clued in when he never energy drains them. But it
makes for an amusing inside joke that only I get. ;) 

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 3:49:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Silveraxe wrote:
> Waldo wrote:
>
>>I prefer ad-libbing to fudging, but I don't do either all that much.
>>And my favorite sort of ad-libbing isn't done to fix a problem. It's
>>when a player has A Better Idea than mine.
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>Now, usually when this happens the DM just rolls his eyes. But
>>occasionally the PCs come up with something that's really beautiful,
>>and better than the DM's original idea.
>
>
>>Anyone else have this happen?
>
>
> It happened 'cause I got lost in flavour details.
>
> IMCC,

[cut]


>
> Neat plot, but it would've required too many changes.
>
> Silveraxe.
>

I would have run with it, and abandoned my previous plot for the better
one. I say always go with the flow of the game. Flow is one of the
goals. In anthropology it is called 'communitas'.
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 4:27:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <1118741383.206066.297090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
peggoliathy@yahoo.com says...

> I prefer ad-libbing to fudging, but I don't do either all that much.
> And my favorite sort of ad-libbing isn't done to fix a problem. It's
> when a player has A Better Idea than mine.
>
> [snip example]
>
> Anyone else have this happen?

Yes. I can't recall of any particular instances right now, but I
sometimes even use this technique intentionally, by leaving open some
questions I can't really figure out the answers to, and then just
listening to the players' theories, and adapting the one I like best to
be "true".

It reduces the workload for the DM, and ensures the players get to feel
smart for figuring out the clues!


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 4:27:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> In article <1118741383.206066.297090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> peggoliathy@yahoo.com says...
>
>
>>I prefer ad-libbing to fudging, but I don't do either all that much.
>>And my favorite sort of ad-libbing isn't done to fix a problem. It's
>>when a player has A Better Idea than mine.
>>
>>[snip example]
>>
>>Anyone else have this happen?
>
>
> Yes. I can't recall of any particular instances right now, but I
> sometimes even use this technique intentionally, by leaving open some
> questions I can't really figure out the answers to, and then just
> listening to the players' theories, and adapting the one I like best to
> be "true".
>
> It reduces the workload for the DM, and ensures the players get to feel
> smart for figuring out the clues!
>
>

Yeah, I think this is best way to play, really. DND is at its best a
kind of improv. Some rpgs are designed for this, WW storyteller in
particular. I think it stands out in DND because the game is so highly
structured, yet actually run the players and DM have the most fun when
the unexpected happens--usually through improving off one another.
Trying to figure out how to apply the rules afterwards is another part
of the game, no?
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 5:34:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

<quuxa23@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1118762241.797730.122480@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> On the subject of fudging, what's the consensus on fudging dungeon
> rooms? I was surprised when someone I know was mortally appalled that
> it often doesn't matter which direction my players go, they encounter
> rooms and creatures in the order I choose. Not all the time, mind you,
> but I think it's an effective way to railroad without it /feeling/ like
> I'm railroading.

The only problem I have with that is the improbable nature of the finds, if
you stick true to the order you have laid out. For example, you have 10
rooms and 5 monsters to give them. They *FINALLY* get around to that "just
to the left of the entrance section" that they ignored on the way in. The
BBEG just HAPPENS to be in the very last room they enter, every time,
regardless of it's physical location within the dungeon? My players would
probably give me a dirty look on that one.

I tend to put the stairs to the second level in the furthest point from the
entrance, or the most difficult to reach portion of the level. The BBEG is
usually somewhere that will be very unlikely for them to reach, and
DEFINITELY behind at least a few rooms that they MUST go through to get to
him, that way I can be assured that they won't bypass half of the adventure
by pure happenstance.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 9:18:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Waldo wrote:
>
> I prefer ad-libbing to fudging, but I don't do either all that much.
> And my favorite sort of ad-libbing isn't done to fix a problem. It's
> when a player has A Better Idea than mine.

I want to suggest a candidate name for this lovely concept. It comes
from the world of software (Microsoft, to be precise).

"Embrace and Extend"
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 6:59:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

quuxa23@yahoo.com wrote:
> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> > In article <1118741383.206066.297090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> > peggoliathy@yahoo.com says...
> >
> > > I prefer ad-libbing to fudging, but I don't do either all that much.
> > > And my favorite sort of ad-libbing isn't done to fix a problem. It's
> > > when a player has A Better Idea than mine.
> > >
> > > [snip example]
> > >
> > > Anyone else have this happen?
> >
> > Yes. I can't recall of any particular instances right now, but I
> > sometimes even use this technique intentionally, by leaving open some
> > questions I can't really figure out the answers to, and then just
> > listening to the players' theories, and adapting the one I like best to
> > be "true".
> >
> > It reduces the workload for the DM, and ensures the players get to feel
> > smart for figuring out the clues!
> >
>
> Reminds me of the technique in Critical Miss to stall for time if you
> haven't come up with a scenario for the evening:
>
> 1) take all their stuff
> 2) stick them in a cell
> 3) let them keep coming up with ideas, denying them all
> 4) as soon as you have /your/ stuff together, give a knowing nod to the
> next ridiculously complicated idea that's thrown out and allow it to
> succeed.
> 5) proceed with your shoddy, hastily constructed adventure
>
> On the subject of fudging, what's the consensus on fudging dungeon
> rooms? I was surprised when someone I know was mortally appalled that
> it often doesn't matter which direction my players go, they encounter
> rooms and creatures in the order I choose. Not all the time, mind you,
> but I think it's an effective way to railroad without it /feeling/ like
> I'm railroading.

I've done this. I still do it, from time to time, when I'm too lazy to
work out the adventure properly (designing dungeons properly is a
_bitch_).

I'm not proud of it, though. To me, it feels like a singularly poor way
to DM.

Laszlo
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 7:03:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jeff Goslin wrote:
> <quuxa23@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1118762241.797730.122480@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > On the subject of fudging, what's the consensus on fudging dungeon
> > rooms? I was surprised when someone I know was mortally appalled that
> > it often doesn't matter which direction my players go, they encounter
> > rooms and creatures in the order I choose. Not all the time, mind you,
> > but I think it's an effective way to railroad without it /feeling/ like
> > I'm railroading.
>
> The only problem I have with that is the improbable nature of the finds, if
> you stick true to the order you have laid out. For example, you have 10
> rooms and 5 monsters to give them. They *FINALLY* get around to that "just
> to the left of the entrance section" that they ignored on the way in. The
> BBEG just HAPPENS to be in the very last room they enter, every time,
> regardless of it's physical location within the dungeon? My players would
> probably give me a dirty look on that one.

Well, that's not how it's done. The last room they enter has a clue
(map, riddle, whatever) that will lead them to the secret door (or
magic portal, or whatever) that _leads_ to the BBEG.

Incidentally, the secret door should always end up somewhere plausible
where they didn't think to look. Ideally, you'll get groans like "oooh,
damn, I KNEW we should have checked there!"

Note that I'm not advocating this style of DMing, but if you _have_ to
do it, do it right.

Laszlo
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 9:56:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Waldo <peggoliathy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Followup to the discussion of ad-libbing. (Is there another, better
> name for this?)
>
>
> I prefer ad-libbing to fudging, but I don't do either all that much.
> And my favorite sort of ad-libbing isn't done to fix a problem. It's
> when a player has A Better Idea than mine.

[ snipped Port Zigo Conspiracy ]

> Now, usually when this happens the DM just rolls his eyes. But
> occasionally the PCs come up with something that's really beautiful,
> and better than the DM's original idea. The example above is almost
> verbatim from MC a while back, and the lair of the gnolls -- a small,
> rather bland dungeon that was supposed to be a brief hack'n'slash
> diversion for a session or two -- suddenly woke up and crackled with
> threat and meaning.
>
> Anyone else have this happen?

All the time. As Jasin said, I plant stuff that I can't explain
(immediately) in my games for the specific purpose of the players
picking it up and doing something with it.

It's made me look *great* sometimes. "You mean... that sword we picked
up months ago has something to do with this? How can he plan this stuff
so far ahead?"

answer: I didn't. I dropped that sword there on a whim, later found a
way to tie it into current events. It only *looks* like I'm that good
at planning.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 10:05:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jeff Goslin <autockr@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Waldo" <peggoliathy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1118741383.206066.297090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> PC: I'm opening some of the barrels. What's inside?
>> GM: Oh, just grain. Looks like they ripped off some of the local
>> farmers.
>> PC: I'll open some more barrels. All grain?
>> GM: No, there's um, some dried fruit and, um, dried fish.
>> PC: Dried fish? Fresh water or salt?
>> GM: [thinking, what the hell] Uh... salt. Mackerel.
>> PC: Hey, we're a long way from the ocean. How'd these guys get dried
>> mackerel?
>> PC: Wait! What if they got it from Port Zigo?
>> PC: Oh yeah! That would totally make sense! If they were allied with
>> the sorcerors of Port Zigo? That would explain where they got that
>> fire elemental!
>> PC: Yeah, I was wondering how a bunch of stupid hyena-heads would have
>> something like that! But if the Shadow Cabinet is bankrolling them...
>> PC: ...right! They'd have access to all sorts of things like that!
>> PC: Oh my gosh, what if the Cabinet sends an orange-robe to check this
>> out? I mean, we know they hate it when their minions get killed...
>> PC: You're right. This changes everything. We better get moving.

Just for fun, have the Count's Son be utterly innocent. The PCs could
*make him* an enemy, of course, but then it's their fault. Or perhaps
he never even considered the course of action they suspect him of, but
when they started investigating or confronting him with it he... comes
to think it might be an interesting idea. He's ambitious (the Count's
son, after all) but thought to pursue his fortune in the army... since
the plan the PCs came up with seems workable, however, after he thinks
about it for a while he decides to change plans.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 10:52:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In news:8jzre.2093$Qr3.533995@news20.bellglobal.com,
Shawn Roske <shawn_roske@sympatico.ca> typed:
> Yeah, I think this is best way to play, really. DND is at its best a
> kind of improv. Some rpgs are designed for this, WW storyteller in
> particular.

Just a small remark here. I've found WW's Vampires spiderweb of shadowy
influence and intrigue comes out best in the games that had the most
preplanning while the ones that were almost total impro were the furthest
away from the games basic feel.

--
T. Koivula
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 11:01:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Keith Davies" <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in message
news:slrndb0qu5.gg1.keith.davies@kjdavies.org...
> It's made me look *great* sometimes. "You mean... that sword we picked
> up months ago has something to do with this? How can he plan this stuff
> so far ahead?"
>
> answer: I didn't. I dropped that sword there on a whim, later found a
> way to tie it into current events. It only *looks* like I'm that good
> at planning.

Better to LOOK good, eh? It's so much easier than actually BEING good. I
should know. ;) 

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 11:05:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Keith Davies" <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in message
news:slrndb0rei.gg1.keith.davies@kjdavies.org...
> Just for fun, have the Count's Son be utterly innocent. The PCs could
> *make him* an enemy, of course, but then it's their fault. Or perhaps

I do that a lot. The PC's think up some wildly improbably situation, and I
run with it, but in the end, they are totally wrong.

It was actually pretty amusing one time. They had heard that the bad guy in
one adventure was this old guy doing some nasty stuff. They bust into his
den or whatever, cut off his head in like 2 seconds, and then they were
like... "he's.... dead...? I don't get it..." I just waited... It took em
about 5 seconds. "Son of a *BITCH*!!!"

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 11:08:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In news:1118748998.485644.79660@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com,
Silveraxe <avidroleplayer@yahoo.com> typed:
> PC: Five? I thought you said there are only FOUR Dukes of the Blood in
> the Empire. Who's the fifth?
> DM: *slaps forehead* I did? Oh, yes, of course I did! They belong to
> the four Dukes and ... ummm ... this Count. The Count is ... ummm ...

Would it have been the End of the World to admit you made a mistake? Not
that covering like that can't sometimes be the best solution but often it's
simplest not to make up wild additions to the campaign on the spur of the
moment just to save your pride...

--
T. Koivula
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 11:08:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"T. Koivula" <plistat@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 8pjpd$gmh$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> In news:1118748998.485644.79660@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com,
> Silveraxe <avidroleplayer@yahoo.com> typed:
> > PC: Five? I thought you said there are only FOUR Dukes of the Blood in
> > the Empire. Who's the fifth?
> > DM: *slaps forehead* I did? Oh, yes, of course I did! They belong to
> > the four Dukes and ... ummm ... this Count. The Count is ... ummm ...
>
> Would it have been the End of the World to admit you made a mistake? Not
> that covering like that can't sometimes be the best solution but often
it's
> simplest not to make up wild additions to the campaign on the spur of the
> moment just to save your pride...

I don't think it's got anything to do with pride, per se, but rather it
sounds like something fun to do, that the DM didn't think of. So you pull a
"yeah, that's the ticket" kind of thing, and run with it.

I have to admit, coming up with reasonable adventures week after week can
really be difficult, so if my players come up with some wildly improbable
adventure that they find, in the moment, to be 100% plausible, hell, I'll
run with it all day, because not only is it something that *I* don't have to
come up with, but it's ALSO something I *know* they will be interested in
doing. Players don't tend to go on and on about ideas they hate, only the
ones they like.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 11:11:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In news:p aOdnR2rN69taTPfRVn-ug@comcast.com,
Jeff Goslin <autockr@comcast.net> typed:
> The BBEG had a bunch of vampire literature around, avoided daylight,
> coffins scattered about the place, and so on, but he's just like a
> goth wannabe or something, he would LIKE to be a vampire but really
> he's not.

Remember th X-files where they encounter a Vampire wannabe with clip-on
fangs and all? That was funny. (especially since the guy actually was a
vampire) :) 

--
T. Koivula
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 11:11:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"T. Koivula" <plistat@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 8pjvh$gmu$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> In news:p aOdnR2rN69taTPfRVn-ug@comcast.com,
> Jeff Goslin <autockr@comcast.net> typed:
> > The BBEG had a bunch of vampire literature around, avoided daylight,
> > coffins scattered about the place, and so on, but he's just like a
> > goth wannabe or something, he would LIKE to be a vampire but really
> > he's not.
>
> Remember th X-files where they encounter a Vampire wannabe with clip-on
> fangs and all? That was funny. (especially since the guy actually was a
> vampire) :) 

Not a big X-files fan(actually, I've never even seen an episode,
*BLASPHEMY!!*, yes I know).

Oh, believe you me, I'm like ten steps ahead of you, this guy got into the
whole "I'm a vampire goth guy" thing for a reason(I made it up after the
fact, since this was originally an adlibbed thing). You don't think there's
going to be a vampire behind this guy, pulling the strings of his goth
wannabe guy? BELIEVE ME, when they kill THIS guy, they are going to be
plenty pissed to find out he's NOT a vampire, and then, oh you can bet your
HAIRY PIMPLED *ASS* there's going to be a real vampire not far away, looking
to beat the party down for their insensitive slaughter of his pet project!
;) 

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 4:49:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

T. Koivula wrote:
> In news:1118748998.485644.79660@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com,
> Silveraxe <avidroleplayer@yahoo.com> typed:
> > PC: Five? I thought you said there are only FOUR Dukes of the Blood in
> > the Empire. Who's the fifth?
> > DM: *slaps forehead* I did? Oh, yes, of course I did! They belong to
> > the four Dukes and ... ummm ... this Count. The Count is ... ummm ...
>
> Would it have been the End of the World to admit you made a mistake? Not
> that covering like that can't sometimes be the best solution but often it's
> simplest not to make up wild additions to the campaign on the spur of the
> moment just to save your pride...

I wouldn't have been the End of the World.
But it always feels like I can get away with it *just one more time.*

And it's not about my pride ... I mean it's not pride that I never make
mistakes, it's pride about my world and finally getting to rant about
its history and things, because usually all the players care about is
the inn, the sage, the temple, and the weapons shop.

Silveraxe.
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 7:16:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jeff Goslin wrote:
> T. Koivula wrote:
> >
> > Remember th X-files where they encounter a Vampire wannabe
> > with clip-on fangs and all? That was funny. (especially
> > since the guy actually was a vampire) :) 
>
> Not a big X-files fan(actually, I've never even seen
> an episode, *BLASPHEMY!!*, yes I know).

's not for everyone.

That said, that episode is worth watching, even if you know nothing
about X-Files. It's called "Bad Blood", and it's one of my favorites.

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
June 17, 2005 8:18:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On 14 Jun 2005 04:36:38 -0700, "Silveraxe" <avidroleplayer@yahoo.com>
dared speak in front of ME:

<Snip>
>It happened 'cause I got lost in flavour details.
<snip>
>DM: No, no, no! [frantically] He is this little nice elderly gentleman,
>a scholar and an artist. His lobbying has always been polite,
>considerate and well thought out. He really doesn't seem the type ...
>PC: Does he have children.
>DM: [groan] Yes.
>PC: Any of them in the army?
>DM: [GROAN!] Yes. (one of them HAD to be in the army.)
>PC: Then it's the Count's SON!!!
>
>Neat plot, but it would've required too many changes.

So now you know that both the leader of the Dark Army and one of his
officers(1) have Dragonmaces...

1) C'mon, he's a Count's son, of course Daddy is going to give him
protection while he's in the army. And being a Count's son with a
powerful weapon, of *course* he's going to be noticable officer.
--
Address no longer works.
try removing all numbers from
gafgirl1@2allstream3.net

--
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Anonymous
June 19, 2005 1:08:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Waldo" <peggoliathy@yahoo.com> wrote:
] verbatim from MC a while back, and the lair of the gnolls -- a small,
] rather bland dungeon that was supposed to be a brief hack'n'slash
] diversion for a session or two -- suddenly woke up and crackled with
] threat and meaning.
]
] Anyone else have this happen?

My players have jumped to all sorts of false conclusions. I let them
figure it out if its false or true.

Sometimes they have found monster food storage, and took what they
needed, and distroyed the rest. I just added it into the campaign as
another reason some of the bad guys disliked them.

JimP.
--
djim70 at tyhe cableone dot net. Disclaimer: Standard.
http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/new.html AD&D May 29, 2005
http://evergame.drivein-jim.net/ EQ 1 June 9, 2005
Registered Linux user#185746 http://linux.drivein-jim.net/
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 6:51:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

D.J <jolly73@boingcableone.net> wrote:
>
> Sometimes they have found monster food storage, and took what they
> needed, and distroyed the rest. I just added it into the campaign as
> another reason some of the bad guys disliked them.

I'm pretty sure I've posted this before, but one of my favorite events
in a game I was playing in (Sunless Citadel, IIRC) we came across a
goblin food repository.

Random (elven archer): "Elf pudding! I haven't had elven pudding since
I left the forest" *starts to pry open barrel*
Dolarn (my character): "uhhh... Random? Says 'elf pudding', and it's a
goblin larder. I wouldn't..."
Random: "What? You... mean... *hyuuuurrkk*"


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 6:51:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote:
] Random (elven archer): "Elf pudding! I haven't had elven pudding since
] I left the forest" *starts to pry open barrel*
] Dolarn (my character): "uhhh... Random? Says 'elf pudding', and it's a
] goblin larder. I wouldn't..."
] Random: "What? You... mean... *hyuuuurrkk*"

Yeah, my players don't like that type of food... so sometimes I add
it as items in a barrel. I've been tempted to put chocolate covered
insects into my campaign.

JimP.
--
http://www.linuxgazette.net/ Linux Gazette
http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/ June 7, 2005
http://www.drivein-jim.net/ May 14, 2005: Drive-In movie theatres
http://poetry.drivein-jim.net/ poetry blog March 12, 2005
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 9:55:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

D.J <jolly73@boingcableone.net> wrote:
>
> Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote:
> ] Random (elven archer): "Elf pudding! I haven't had elven pudding since
> ] I left the forest" *starts to pry open barrel*
> ] Dolarn (my character): "uhhh... Random? Says 'elf pudding', and it's a
> ] goblin larder. I wouldn't..."
> ] Random: "What? You... mean... *hyuuuurrkk*"
>
> Yeah, my players don't like that type of food... so sometimes I add
> it as items in a barrel. I've been tempted to put chocolate covered
> insects into my campaign.

I don't know if Beau actually likes pudding or not, but he was playing
an elf, thought Random had found some stolen 'elven pudding' and decided
on the spot that Random missed it and wanted some.

It was only when it was pointed out that it was probably actually
'pudding made of elf' that he had a problem with it.


As for the chocolate thing, a recurring NPC in a friend's campaign kept
trying to sell us chocolate-covered garlic. He eventually succeeded; we
needed some information from him. At least I wasn't the one he watched
eat it.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 9:55:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote:
] D.J <jolly73@boingcableone.net> wrote:
] >
] > Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote:
] > ] Random (elven archer): "Elf pudding! I haven't had elven pudding since
] > ] I left the forest" *starts to pry open barrel*
] > ] Dolarn (my character): "uhhh... Random? Says 'elf pudding', and it's a
] > ] goblin larder. I wouldn't..."
] > ] Random: "What? You... mean... *hyuuuurrkk*"
] >
] > Yeah, my players don't like that type of food... so sometimes I add
] > it as items in a barrel. I've been tempted to put chocolate covered
] > insects into my campaign.
]
] I don't know if Beau actually likes pudding or not, but he was playing
] an elf, thought Random had found some stolen 'elven pudding' and decided
] on the spot that Random missed it and wanted some.

Hmm. I shoulda been more specific.

My players don't like me to put things like 'pudding made of elves'
as something their characters might find, into my campaign.

Its not something that can make or break my campaign, so I have no
problem leaving it out.

JimP.
--
http://www.linuxgazette.net/ Linux Gazette
http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/ June 7, 2005
http://www.drivein-jim.net/ May 14, 2005: Drive-In movie theatres
http://poetry.drivein-jim.net/ poetry blog March 12, 2005
!