Kill or fudge?

[Waldo]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Spinoff from the recent thread on fudging. An example from MC.

A group of 4 3rd-level PCs are exploring a foggy battlefield at night.
They reasonably expect undead and are appropriately prepared; one
character has Detect Undead turned on and is concentrating.

I've already decided that they'll get a random encounter roll every
half hour, and have prepared a chart of appropriate CR encounters.

Sure enough, I roll a random encounter: 1d3 ghouls. Roll a 3. Three
ghouls. Okay.

I decide there's a 50% chance the Detect Undead will pick them up.
(It's a cone-shaped emanation, and they could be off to one side.) I
roll and it doesn't. I have the ghouls Hiding in the fog. Roll
opposed Spot and Hide checks. One PC (the cleric) spots the ghouls,
the others not. All the ghouls beat the cleric on initiative, though,
so we have a surprise round where the ghouls go first.

The ghouls charge and attack three PCs. All three are hit. Two fail
their saves and are paralyzed... including the cleric. Whoops.

First normal round, the free PCs roll badly on initiative. The ghouls
attack again. A third PC is paralyzed. Uh oh.

The fourth PC, a fighter, stands his ground and hits one ghoul,
injuring but not killing it.

Now what?

A 3rd level fighter has a less-than-even chance of killing three ghouls
before being chewed to pieces. (Without the ghouls' paralysis power,
it's about an even match, but the fighter will probably have to make
6-8 saving throws in a row without failing once. His odds of doing
this once are about 0.8, but six times = 0.8^6, or about 26%. Add to
that the ghouls' roughly even chance of ripping him up in straight
combat -- they're smart enough to flank him -- and we have a ~90%
chance of TPK on a stupid random encounter.

My problem with this is that the PCs haven't done anything wrong. If
they'd been stupid... but they haven't. (Unless you count the fighter
staying to fight, when he rationally ought to run. But that's still a
75% PK.) It's pure bad luck. So I'm a bit reluctant to kill them
here.

I know what I did, but what would you do IYC? I'm curious.


Waldo

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Waldo wrote:
> Spinoff from the recent thread on fudging. An example from MC.
>
> A group of 4 3rd-level PCs are exploring a foggy battlefield at night.
> They reasonably expect undead and are appropriately prepared; one
> character has Detect Undead turned on and is concentrating.

....

> Sure enough, I roll a random encounter: 1d3 ghouls. Roll a 3. Three
> ghouls. Okay.

....

> The ghouls charge and attack three PCs. All three are hit. Two fail
> their saves and are paralyzed... including the cleric. Whoops.
>
> First normal round, the free PCs roll badly on initiative. The ghouls
> attack again. A third PC is paralyzed. Uh oh.
>
> The fourth PC, a fighter, stands his ground and hits one ghoul,
> injuring but not killing it.
>
> Now what?

....

> My problem with this is that the PCs haven't done anything wrong. If
> they'd been stupid... but they haven't. (Unless you count the fighter
> staying to fight, when he rationally ought to run. But that's still a
> 75% PK.) It's pure bad luck. So I'm a bit reluctant to kill them
> here.
>
> I know what I did, but what would you do IYC? I'm curious.

That's kind of a tough one.
But, if the ghouls are smart enough to flank him, they're smart enough
to run when the battle goes against them.

I'd probably fake a couple of rolls, declaring they miss even if the
rolls indicate otherwise.

Then, when the fighter has killed one, and wounded another, they decide
the fight is too tough for them, and run off.

He's now got to get his three companions out of there, with the ghouls
still lurking in the fog somewhere. So you still get lots of suspense,
but without killing the whole party over a couple of bad rolls.

I'd do it differently though if they went in without a Cleric, or were
just being stupid somehow, but like you pointed out, they shouldn't all
die over a bad roll...

-Pat

 

[Phil]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

>
> I know what I did, but what would you do IYC? I'm curious.
>
>

As you point out, the party have done nothing wrong, so I'd try to
avoid the TPK.
What I'd do is let the fighter have his chance to fend off the ghouls.
If luck is with him, he will save the day, and the campaign is back on
track.
Should he fail, then the ghouls batter him unconcious.
Some time later, the party wake up in a big cage. They have no gear
and are imprissoned with a motley collection of peasants and
travellers. Some minor villan is about to sacrifice the lot of them to
something nasty.
The cleric here can heal his mates, they can bust out, off the wanna-be
demon-summoner and his three pet ghouls and lead the peasants home in
time for tea.
Then your campaign can get back on track.

For extra fitting-in-with-your-story-ness have the minor baddie be a
minion for the eventual big bad boss and the party have once again
thwarted him.

How did you deal with the situation?

Phil.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Symbol wrote:

> Ghoul paralysis only lasts 1d4+1 rounds. Tick one round off for the two
> paralyzed in the surprise round.

Right, they can easily still win this.

> His best strategy is to delay until his companions start to recover if the
> Ghouls are concentrating on him. Either flee or crank up the Combat
> Expertise and fight defensively or fight with total defence.

Yep, if he has Expertise and fights defensively he can likely hold out.

> I would let the dice decide.

Bingo! If you fudge at this point they WILL spot it.

Did you see the one the other day by a poster who HATES the not dead
at negative HP rule because it is so often used as a fudge in his game.

If you were going to fudge duration on the paralysis is the right
spot, but I would let them fight it out. 3rd level, they only have
a few months invested (at most) in these characters, when where
they'll be a BETTER time to let them know you are serious and that
random encounters CAN kill them.

DougL

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

This is a common problem with rpg's in general. What I like to do is
award Fortune points (or Hero points, Fudge points... whatever you want
to call them) whenever you normally award experience. Tell the players
these points may be exchanged for more experience points OR they may
keep them to change an outcome of a die roll.

Examples would be: burn a fortune point to re-roll a to-hit,
automatically save, treat a killing blow as "near-death"...

You get the idea. Come up with a list of uses that's appropriate for
your campaign and hand them out to the players. I've also awarded
fortune points if players show up with painted figs, updated character
sheets, interesting narratives, maps... whatever you think improves
your game. Granted, players should do this on their own but a little
bribery doesn't hurt

This way, the players are in more control over their character's fate
and you, as DM, won't feel quite so bad about rotten die rolls. Also,
players who bring a lot of "fluff" to the game and spend tons of time
on their character backgrounds, story, and all the stuff described
above will have more fortune points to save their alter-ego's bottom
when things go awry.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Waldo wrote:

> Spinoff from the recent thread on fudging. An example from MC.
>
> A group of 4 3rd-level PCs are exploring a foggy battlefield at night.
> They reasonably expect undead and are appropriately prepared; one
> character has Detect Undead turned on and is concentrating.
>
> I've already decided that they'll get a random encounter roll every
> half hour, and have prepared a chart of appropriate CR encounters.
>
> Sure enough, I roll a random encounter: 1d3 ghouls. Roll a 3. Three
> ghouls. Okay.
>
> I decide there's a 50% chance the Detect Undead will pick them up.
> (It's a cone-shaped emanation, and they could be off to one side.) I
> roll and it doesn't. I have the ghouls Hiding in the fog. Roll
> opposed Spot and Hide checks. One PC (the cleric) spots the ghouls,
> the others not. All the ghouls beat the cleric on initiative, though,
> so we have a surprise round where the ghouls go first.
>
> The ghouls charge and attack three PCs. All three are hit. Two fail
> their saves and are paralyzed... including the cleric. Whoops.
>
> First normal round, the free PCs roll badly on initiative. The ghouls
> attack again. A third PC is paralyzed. Uh oh.
>
> The fourth PC, a fighter, stands his ground and hits one ghoul,
> injuring but not killing it.
>
> Now what?
>
> A 3rd level fighter has a less-than-even chance of killing three ghouls
> before being chewed to pieces. (Without the ghouls' paralysis power,
> it's about an even match, but the fighter will probably have to make
> 6-8 saving throws in a row without failing once. His odds of doing
> this once are about 0.8, but six times = 0.8^6, or about 26%. Add to
> that the ghouls' roughly even chance of ripping him up in straight
> combat -- they're smart enough to flank him -- and we have a ~90%
> chance of TPK on a stupid random encounter.
>
> My problem with this is that the PCs haven't done anything wrong. If
> they'd been stupid... but they haven't. (Unless you count the fighter
> staying to fight, when he rationally ought to run. But that's still a
> 75% PK.) It's pure bad luck. So I'm a bit reluctant to kill them
> here.
>
> I know what I did, but what would you do IYC? I'm curious.
>
>
> Waldo
>

This is why fudging is a useful tool for the DM. (In my simple
philosophy, all the "hated" tools are useful when used with judgement
and discretion.)

First, I would have fudged by rewarding their vigilance and giving them
bonuses to spot and initiative. Secondly, the ghouls are more dangerous
than their threat ranking makes them. The party should never have faced
three. Two Ghouls are a CR3 vs a 4 person party. (1 ghoul = CR1, 2
ghouls = CR3). Since they are only three characters, not four, the fight
is actually touger. That makes this random encounter a dangerous to
deadly encounter.

Random encounters should be CR 1-3, but no higher. You want your
characters able to encouter the pre-set encounters, and not getting
chewed up in the random encounters. Since they are only a three person
party, a CR 1-2 is the appropriate range.

Now, to answer your question. I would have made (fudged) the ghouls into
being pre-injured. They would miss the fighter on his round. He will
hopefully hit, and kill the weakest one. The ghouls will then retreat.

CH

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Waldo" <peggoliathy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1118755162.116580.292710@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Spinoff from the recent thread on fudging. An example from MC.
>
> A group of 4 3rd-level PCs are exploring a foggy battlefield at night.
> They reasonably expect undead and are appropriately prepared; one
> character has Detect Undead turned on and is concentrating.
>
> I've already decided that they'll get a random encounter roll every
> half hour, and have prepared a chart of appropriate CR encounters.
>
> Sure enough, I roll a random encounter: 1d3 ghouls. Roll a 3. Three
> ghouls. Okay.
>
> I decide there's a 50% chance the Detect Undead will pick them up.
> (It's a cone-shaped emanation, and they could be off to one side.)

If they are doing sweeps with the cone, they should have easily detected the
hiding ghouls. Failing that, I would let the dice fall where they may.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

DougL wrote:
>
> If you were going to fudge duration on the paralysis is the right
> spot, but I would let them fight it out. 3rd level, they only have
> a few months invested (at most) in these characters, when where
> they'll be a BETTER time to let them know you are serious and that
> random encounters CAN kill them.

Oh yes, kill PCs to make a point. How mature.

Brandon

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

copeab@yahoo.com wrote:
> DougL wrote:
> >
> > If you were going to fudge duration on the paralysis is the right
> > spot, but I would let them fight it out. 3rd level, they only have
> > a few months invested (at most) in these characters, when where
> > they'll be a BETTER time to let them know you are serious and that
> > random encounters CAN kill them.
>
> Oh yes, kill PCs to make a point. How mature.

Nope, kill the PCs because they lose a fight against a deadly
foe. If losing a fight against a deadly foe DOESN'T kill PCs then
you have missnamed the foe.

DougL

 

[drow]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Alien mind control rays made Waldo <peggoliathy@yahoo.com> write:
> Spinoff from the recent thread on fudging. An example from MC.
>
> A group of 4 3rd-level PCs are exploring a foggy battlefield at night.
> They reasonably expect undead and are appropriately prepared; one
> character has Detect Undead turned on and is concentrating.
>
> ...
>
> My problem with this is that the PCs haven't done anything wrong. If
> they'd been stupid... but they haven't. (Unless you count the fighter
> staying to fight, when he rationally ought to run. But that's still a
> 75% PK.) It's pure bad luck. So I'm a bit reluctant to kill them
> here.
>
> I know what I did, but what would you do IYC? I'm curious.

ghoul PC party!

--
\^\ // drow@bin.sh (CARRIER LOST) <http://www.bin.sh/>
\ // - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
// \ X-Windows: More than enough rope
// \_\ -- Dude from DPAK

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

If you don't want to kill them you still have some options:

1. Delay for a round or two, while paralysis wears off. Hopefully you
didn't roll the duration in front of the players.
2. Introduce a minor villain controlling the ghouls...before I kill you
Mr. Bond...
3. Introduce a minor hero/villain who assists them.

I think introducing a minor RPG lede isn't bad, depending on the group.
If it's going to be a more epic game, lead-ins to long-term NPCs should
be introduced early. If it's a less-than-epic game, allow the PCs to
take the hits.

The fact that the ghouls got essentially a pounce attack, and were able
to hide from Detect Undead...you could leave that in there - some minor
cult has figured out some twisted stuff. Maybe the party will do
something with it, if they can survive.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

This is the classic case of when bad rolls happen to good players. A ghoul
is really not that tough of a creature, CR1, and with the fortitude save
being a 12 on the paralysis, even a wizard/sorc has a 50/50 chance of making
it with average stats at lvl 3.

If the party played it smart, I would fudge it to some degree. Maybe have
one of the ghouls disengage and try to carry off one of the other payalyzied
players giving the warrior an atk of opp on it. Or even fudge the rounds the
cleric is paralysed for so he can pull off a turn attempt.

The only real "flaw" I see with what happened is in the suprise round you
stated the ghouls "charged and attacked", nitpicking here, but in the
suprise round you can only perform single standard action; they could have
moved to melee range, or if in melee range at the time of detection launched
a single attack, but not a full attack of claw/claw/bite as this is a full
round action and certainly not a charge as defined by the rules since that
is also a full round action.

If there was an error made in the initial round of action and the game play
has been froze till next session at the point the warrior is going solo, you
might want to rerun the initial round keeping a closer eye on the suprise
round rules. I know when I first started DMing with the 3rd and 3.5 rules, a
few combats where funkiness and things that make you go "ummm" happened was
usally due to an error I had made and we tried to do a lil rewind in the
game play. If you don't feel like doing the rewind you could have the ghouls
do 2 rounds of a single standard action to make up for it also.

Just remember my golden rule of gameplay as the DM. "Make the players sweat,
swear, pull out their hair, and pray to their dice, but don't Gygax them
unless they do something of Quayleian proportions."

"Waldo" <peggoliathy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1118755162.116580.292710@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Spinoff from the recent thread on fudging. An example from MC.
>
> A group of 4 3rd-level PCs are exploring a foggy battlefield at night.
> They reasonably expect undead and are appropriately prepared; one
> character has Detect Undead turned on and is concentrating.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Kirk Janetzke" <janetzke@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8lCre.52174$PR6.14240@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Just remember my golden rule of gameplay as the DM. "Make the players
sweat,
> swear, pull out their hair, and pray to their dice, but don't Gygax them
> unless they do something of Quayleian proportions."

"Gygax them"...? I can infer from the context what it means, but I'm
curious to know the etymology of that particular reference.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

The cleric prepared ahead of time with Detect Undead. Sure,
technically there was a chance the ghouls would not appear within the
cone of detection. However, as a good sport DM, just let it work and
they detect the ghouls. You don't have to let them automatically
surprise the ghouls. You could make it a roll to surprise them or just
forgo it and not have any surprise - the ghouls notice them too - as
"payment" for the spell automatically detecting them.

Gerald Katz

 

[drow]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Alien mind control rays made Kirk Janetzke <janetzke@austin.rr.com> write:
> The only real "flaw" I see with what happened is in the suprise round you
> stated the ghouls "charged and attacked", nitpicking here, but in the
> suprise round you can only perform single standard action; they could have
> moved to melee range, or if in melee range at the time of detection launched
> a single attack,

they can still charge if they're within a single move of the party.

"If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on
your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up
to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can't use
this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard
action or move action on your turn."

--
\^\ // drow@bin.sh (CARRIER LOST) <http://www.bin.sh/>
\ // - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
// \ X-Windows: It could be worse... but it'll take time.
// \_\ -- Dude from DPAK

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Waldo" <peggoliathy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1118755162.116580.292710@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> The ghouls charge and attack three PCs. All three are hit. Two fail
> their saves and are paralyzed... including the cleric. Whoops.
>
> First normal round, the free PCs roll badly on initiative. The ghouls
> attack again. A third PC is paralyzed. Uh oh.
>
> The fourth PC, a fighter, stands his ground and hits one ghoul,
> injuring but not killing it.

Ghoul paralysis only lasts 1d4+1 rounds. Tick one round off for the two
paralyzed in the surprise round.

> Now what?
>
> A 3rd level fighter has a less-than-even chance of killing three ghouls
> before being chewed to pieces.

His best strategy is to delay until his companions start to recover if the
Ghouls are concentrating on him. Either flee or crank up the Combat
Expertise and fight defensively or fight with total defence.

> (Without the ghouls' paralysis power,
> it's about an even match, but the fighter will probably have to make
> 6-8 saving throws in a row without failing once. His odds of doing
> this once are about 0.8, but six times = 0.8^6, or about 26%. Add to
> that the ghouls' roughly even chance of ripping him up in straight
> combat -- they're smart enough to flank him -- and we have a ~90%
> chance of TPK on a stupid random encounter.
>
> My problem with this is that the PCs haven't done anything wrong. If
> they'd been stupid... but they haven't. (Unless you count the fighter
> staying to fight, when he rationally ought to run. But that's still a
> 75% PK.) It's pure bad luck. So I'm a bit reluctant to kill them
> here.
>
> I know what I did, but what would you do IYC? I'm curious.

I would let the dice decide.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Kirk Janetzke" <janetzke@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8lCre.52174$PR6.14240@tornado.texas.rr.com...

> The only real "flaw" I see with what happened is in the suprise round
you
> stated the ghouls "charged and attacked", nitpicking here, but in the
> suprise round you can only perform single standard action; they could
have
> moved to melee range, or if in melee range at the time of detection
launched
> a single attack, but not a full attack of claw/claw/bite as this is a
full
> round action and certainly not a charge as defined by the rules since
that
> is also a full round action.

You can charge (which involves movement and an attack) as a standard
action if restricted to them on your turn. A surprise round obviously
restricts you to a standard action and this situation is, therefore,
perfectly legal.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

You're right, I forgot that you can charge in the suprise round but are
limited to your base movement.

"Symbol" <jb70@talk21.com> wrote in message
news:AaWdneO57IGlajPfRVnysQ@pipex.net...
>
> "Kirk Janetzke" <janetzke@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:8lCre.52174$PR6.14240@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>
>> The only real "flaw" I see with what happened is in the suprise round
> you
>> stated the ghouls "charged and attacked", nitpicking here, but in the
>> suprise round you can only perform single standard action; they could
> have
>> moved to melee range, or if in melee range at the time of detection
> launched
>> a single attack, but not a full attack of claw/claw/bite as this is a
> full
>> round action and certainly not a charge as defined by the rules since
> that
>> is also a full round action.
>
> You can charge (which involves movement and an attack) as a standard
> action if restricted to them on your turn. A surprise round obviously
> restricts you to a standard action and this situation is, therefore,
> perfectly legal.
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Kirk Janetzke" <janetzke@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:GQCre.52542$PR6.42744@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> You're right, I forgot that you can charge in the suprise round but are
> limited to your base movement.

On the other hand, the 60' range of Detect Undead should have allowed an
easy, careful sweep of the area as the party advanced, and likely would have
resulted in detection prior to entering partial charge range.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"pluther" <pluther@usa.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1118757063.467687.59620@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Waldo wrote:
> > Spinoff from the recent thread on fudging. An example from MC.
> >
> > A group of 4 3rd-level PCs are exploring a foggy battlefield at night.
> > They reasonably expect undead and are appropriately prepared; one
> > character has Detect Undead turned on and is concentrating.
>
> ...
>
> > Sure enough, I roll a random encounter: 1d3 ghouls. Roll a 3. Three
> > ghouls. Okay.
>
> ...
>
> > The ghouls charge and attack three PCs. All three are hit. Two fail
> > their saves and are paralyzed... including the cleric. Whoops.
> >
> > First normal round, the free PCs roll badly on initiative. The ghouls
> > attack again. A third PC is paralyzed. Uh oh.
> >
> > The fourth PC, a fighter, stands his ground and hits one ghoul,
> > injuring but not killing it.
> >
> > Now what?
>
> ...
>
> > My problem with this is that the PCs haven't done anything wrong. If
> > they'd been stupid... but they haven't. (Unless you count the fighter
> > staying to fight, when he rationally ought to run. But that's still a
> > 75% PK.) It's pure bad luck. So I'm a bit reluctant to kill them
> > here.
> >
> > I know what I did, but what would you do IYC? I'm curious.
>
> That's kind of a tough one.
> But, if the ghouls are smart enough to flank him, they're smart enough
> to run when the battle goes against them.
>
> I'd probably fake a couple of rolls, declaring they miss even if the
> rolls indicate otherwise.
>
> Then, when the fighter has killed one, and wounded another, they decide
> the fight is too tough for them, and run off.
>
> He's now got to get his three companions out of there, with the ghouls
> still lurking in the fog somewhere. So you still get lots of suspense,
> but without killing the whole party over a couple of bad rolls.
>
> I'd do it differently though if they went in without a Cleric, or were
> just being stupid somehow, but like you pointed out, they shouldn't all
> die over a bad roll...
>
> -Pat

It might also be a good idea on the fighter's part to lure the ghouls away
from the rest of the party and try to lose them in the fog. How long does
the paralysis last?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Markus Schäfer wrote:
> "pluther" <pluther@usa.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:1118757063.467687.59620@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>> Waldo wrote:
>>> Spinoff from the recent thread on fudging. An example from MC.
>>>
>>> A group of 4 3rd-level PCs are exploring a foggy battlefield at
>>> night. They reasonably expect undead and are appropriately
>>> prepared; one character has Detect Undead turned on and is
>>> concentrating.
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> Sure enough, I roll a random encounter: 1d3 ghouls. Roll a 3.
>>> Three ghouls. Okay.
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> The ghouls charge and attack three PCs. All three are hit. Two
>>> fail their saves and are paralyzed... including the cleric. Whoops.
>>>
>>> First normal round, the free PCs roll badly on initiative. The
>>> ghouls attack again. A third PC is paralyzed. Uh oh.
>>>
>>> The fourth PC, a fighter, stands his ground and hits one ghoul,
>>> injuring but not killing it.
>>>
>>> Now what?
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> My problem with this is that the PCs haven't done anything wrong.
>>> If they'd been stupid... but they haven't. (Unless you count the
>>> fighter staying to fight, when he rationally ought to run. But
>>> that's still a 75% PK.) It's pure bad luck. So I'm a bit
>>> reluctant to kill them here.
>>>
>>> I know what I did, but what would you do IYC? I'm curious.
>>
>> That's kind of a tough one.
>> But, if the ghouls are smart enough to flank him, they're smart
>> enough to run when the battle goes against them.
>>
>> I'd probably fake a couple of rolls, declaring they miss even if the
>> rolls indicate otherwise.
>>
>> Then, when the fighter has killed one, and wounded another, they
>> decide the fight is too tough for them, and run off.
>>
>> He's now got to get his three companions out of there, with the
>> ghouls still lurking in the fog somewhere. So you still get lots of
>> suspense, but without killing the whole party over a couple of bad
>> rolls.
>>
>> I'd do it differently though if they went in without a Cleric, or
>> were just being stupid somehow, but like you pointed out, they
>> shouldn't all die over a bad roll...
>>
>> -Pat
>
> It might also be a good idea on the fighter's part to lure the ghouls
> away from the rest of the party and try to lose them in the fog. How
> long does the paralysis last?

1d4+1 rounds. There's the best fudge-factor - give the Cleric the minimum
paralysis duration. He got hit in the surprise round, one round has passed,
he'll be mobile again after the next initiative of the ghoul that paralysed
him.

--
Mark.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Kirk Janetzke wrote:
> The only real "flaw" I see with what happened is in the suprise round
> you stated the ghouls "charged and attacked", nitpicking here, but in
> the suprise round you can only perform single standard action; they
> could have moved to melee range, or if in melee range at the time of
> detection launched a single attack, but not a full attack of
> claw/claw/bite as this is a full round action and certainly not a
> charge as defined by the rules since that is also a full round action.

From the SRD: "If you are able to take only a standard action or a move
action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move
up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this
option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move
action on your turn."

So the ghouls could charge, so long as they were within 30 feet of their
targets.

--
Mark.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Mark Blunden" <m.blundenATntlworld.com@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:3h8ccaFfsgvkU1@individual.net...
> Kirk Janetzke wrote:
> > The only real "flaw" I see with what happened is in the suprise round
> > you stated the ghouls "charged and attacked", nitpicking here, but in
> > the suprise round you can only perform single standard action; they
> > could have moved to melee range, or if in melee range at the time of
> > detection launched a single attack, but not a full attack of
> > claw/claw/bite as this is a full round action and certainly not a
> > charge as defined by the rules since that is also a full round action.
>
> From the SRD: "If you are able to take only a standard action or a move
> action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to
move
> up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can't use this
> option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move
> action on your turn."
>
> So the ghouls could charge, so long as they were within 30 feet of their
> targets.

You know, it's possible that the original poster simply misspoke...

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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Silveraxe wrote:

> Waldo wrote:
>
>>Spinoff from the recent thread on fudging. An example from MC.
>>
>>A group of 4 3rd-level PCs are exploring a foggy battlefield at night.
>>
>>I've already decided that they'll get a random encounter roll every
>>half hour, and have prepared a chart of appropriate CR encounters.
>>
>>Sure enough, I roll a random encounter: 1d3 ghouls. Roll a 3. Three
>>ghouls. Okay.
>
>
> Waldo is playing 3.*0*
> Ghouls in 3E are seriously under-CR-ed (in 3.5E too, but a little less
> so.)

Ahh! Yes Ghouls are a bitch in 3.0.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Waldo wrote:
> Spinoff from the recent thread on fudging. An example from MC.
>
> A group of 4 3rd-level PCs are exploring a foggy battlefield at night.
> They reasonably expect undead and are appropriately prepared; one
> character has Detect Undead turned on and is concentrating.
>
> I've already decided that they'll get a random encounter roll every
> half hour, and have prepared a chart of appropriate CR encounters.
>
> Sure enough, I roll a random encounter: 1d3 ghouls. Roll a 3. Three
> ghouls. Okay.
>
> I decide there's a 50% chance the Detect Undead will pick them up.
> (It's a cone-shaped emanation, and they could be off to one side.) I
> roll and it doesn't. I have the ghouls Hiding in the fog. Roll
> opposed Spot and Hide checks. One PC (the cleric) spots the ghouls,
> the others not. All the ghouls beat the cleric on initiative, though,
> so we have a surprise round where the ghouls go first.
>
> The ghouls charge and attack three PCs. All three are hit. Two fail
> their saves and are paralyzed... including the cleric. Whoops.
>
> First normal round, the free PCs roll badly on initiative. The ghouls
> attack again. A third PC is paralyzed. Uh oh.
>
> The fourth PC, a fighter, stands his ground and hits one ghoul,
> injuring but not killing it.
>
> Now what?
>
> A 3rd level fighter has a less-than-even chance of killing three ghouls
> before being chewed to pieces. (Without the ghouls' paralysis power,
> it's about an even match, but the fighter will probably have to make
> 6-8 saving throws in a row without failing once. His odds of doing
> this once are about 0.8, but six times = 0.8^6, or about 26%. Add to
> that the ghouls' roughly even chance of ripping him up in straight
> combat -- they're smart enough to flank him -- and we have a ~90%
> chance of TPK on a stupid random encounter.
>
> My problem with this is that the PCs haven't done anything wrong. If
> they'd been stupid... but they haven't. (Unless you count the fighter
> staying to fight, when he rationally ought to run. But that's still a
> 75% PK.) It's pure bad luck. So I'm a bit reluctant to kill them
> here.
>
> I know what I did, but what would you do IYC? I'm curious.
>
>
> Waldo
>
Since ghouls are Chaotic Evil, it's entirely in character for them to
start squabbling
among themselves over who gets the juciest, meatiest targer. Maybe two
of the ghouls
get into a fight with each other, ignoring the figheter and third
ghoul. IF the fighter
clocks the third ghoul, he can then maybe get the drop on the squabblers
and take them
out while they're occupied. That's less cheesy to me than just faking
missed die rolls,
but it's up to you.