Hammer bandwidth concerns

Olfin_Bedwere

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The Clawhammer's onboard memory controller's going to be limited to DDR333. Pardon me, but don't this give it a serious deficiency when compared to the Pentium 4 B (2700MB/s bandwidth as compared to 4200MB/s)?

Since AMD would need something like DDR533 (which will NEVER happen) to match the P4 B, will it be badly affected by having such little bandwidth?
 

eden

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It doesn't need high bandwidth like the P4. It only has 2 more stages in its pipelines, nothin got fret about.
Besides, from what I heard, Hyper Transport is a different method of bandwidth transfering, so it will be something new and tons better.

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Matisaro

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The p4s extremely long pipeline requires much more bandwith to keep full and processing than the axp or hammers(which will only be 2 stages longer) thus the hammer wont need gobs of bandwidth to keep up with the p4.


Also the sledge hammer will have a dual ddr controler, which provides more bandwith than rdram with less latency.

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Olfin_Bedwere

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Ah, now I see. I suppose with the Hammer, memory transfers would 'hit the ceiling' faster than it would with the P4, but that hardly ever happens outside of video editing and professional OpenGL work (which would be catered for by Sledgehammer).
 

chuck232

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I'm really looking forward to this Dual Channel DDR. Maybe even DDR II sometime soon. Dual Channel will increase bandwidth substantially and I hope it'll be a success.
 

texas_techie

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Yeah, what everyone else said.

But what im waiting on is Serial ATA. SATA coupled with hyper-transport is gonna kick a$$.

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HonestJhon

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blah....sorry, but i am not too happy with what i have read about serial ata...individual cables per drive...more controllers needed on the motherboard...seems like it might drive the cost up a bit, and make the motherboard need to be bigger, and more cables jumbles in the case...sure they are smaller cables, and it will be fast as hell, but heat man....i need airflow!
but hey, if they can figure out how to make it cheap and able to have one cable for more than one device...then sure.
oh well...oh, and i would hate to start a flame war by this post...lol...but i cant stop it...

-DAvid

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BuGaLoU

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I'm starting to think serial ATA is a folk lore.. lol, been hearing random things about it for like 1 and a half and its yet to be released.. heh

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eden

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Same thing as DDR II.
Wish they would hurry their asses doing new things!
We home users want 10000RPM IDE drives, we wanted Dual Channel DDR P4s since the beginning!

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tnadrev

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10,000 RPM IDE drives? i'd rather not have the whiny noise that something like that would produce... they have to find someway to make it quiet... AND have fairly high density...
but for serial ata, i *think* that there is (relatively) unlimited cable length, so i think you could route the cables around the edges of your case and thus have MUCH improved airflow...

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tnadrev

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i also wonder, about the socket setup in the hammer architecture, will they have to change it everytime they "upgrade" the ondie memory controller for more bandwith?

(bb || !bb) - Shakespeare
 

eden

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Trust me, if AMD is still AMD, then we won't get more socket switching for a while after Hammer. That is the whole goal of saving money on new mobos. But Hammer is a very new method of computing in terms of mobo design and installation, so neither of us can determine if staying with same socket means same mobo can function on new Hammer versions.

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FUGGER

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As we all know, new advancements in memory technology take place every few months some of these advancements actually make it to production. Look at DDR and how far it has come in a short time. The socket and pins stay the same. Bandwidth should not be an issue.

There are greater problems to overcome, first off is getting microsoft to develop a WHQL x86-64 OS version. There is limitations to the existing 86x Windows that prevent it from ever running on x86-64 (I have posted links to this information). not to mention the time it takes to get the above WHQL version to market. My best guess is 3 years for microsoft to do so. win286~win95~win98, NT4~NT2000~WinXP

There is another problems in the architecture, maybe will be addressed in later revs. Ill give AMD the benifit of the doubt as I do not know more than their engineers in what they want to get to market first. My guess is AMD will get it to market and fix problems later as the OS's are being developed.

Also, Hypertransport is working out great for all those developing it.

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by fugger on 04/21/02 05:07 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

Matisaro

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There are greater problems to overcome, first off is getting microsoft to develop a WHQL x86-64 OS version. There is limitations to the existing 86x Windows that prevent it from ever running on x86-64 (I have posted links to this information). not to mention the time it takes to get the above WHQL version to market. My best guess is 3 years for microsoft to do so. win286~win95~win98, NT4~NT2000~WinXP


Then how do you explain windows 64 for the itanium, you are sorely mistaken.


There are strong signs there ALREADY IS a windows for the hammer, so why dont you take the fud and fff elsewhere :).



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Matisaro

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My best guess is 3 years for microsoft to do so. win286~win95~win98, NT4~NT2000~WinXP
Windows xp 64 for itanium fits in your schedule how exactly?


If microsoft makes a windows for the tiny number of itaniums sold, there is no logical reason(asides from what your intel fanboy imaginary friend tells you) for m$ not to release a windows xp x86-64.


And your timeframe is laughable especially considering said windows is not the next generation of windows, and its not replacing xp, it, like the ia64 windows, is a niche product for a niche market.


The hammers 32 bit performance should be greater than anything out when its released, and the 64 bit is only sweeter, you constantly forget this when you post your fff's, the hammer does NOT need a windowsx86-64 to succeed, it runs current window's faster than anything.*


(*according to amd which remains to be seen)

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FUGGER

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"Then how do you explain windows 64 for the itanium, you are sorely mistaken."

Microsoft started that version of windows at least 4 years ago (someone find an accurate date?), wtf is wrong with you. do some research. Itanium has been in the planning for a long time and pushed back a few times.

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
 

Matisaro

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Microsoft started that version of windows at least 4 years ago (someone find an accurate date?), wtf is wrong with you. do some research. Itanium has been in the planning for a long time and pushed back a few times.

The hammer has been in the works for several years as well, and you seem to think windows wont work in 64 bit, prey tell, where do you get your inside information?


You have 0 clue what your talking about, and you have shown in the past you dont know what the hammer even is, let alone how it works.(remember your dual core one fills with 0s in 32 bit mode bs comments from a month or so ago).


Please dont spread your fff's without linkage to back up your statements, you have 0 credibility and it would save everyone tons of time refuting your crap if you would just be direct and prove what you say.

Once a liar always a liar.



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FUGGER

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"If microsoft makes a windows for the tiny number of itaniums sold, there is no logical reason(asides from what your intel fanboy imaginary friend tells you) for m$ not to release a windows xp x86-64."

The Itanium was the step for windows to advance to 64bit specificly. Alpha in a sense died as a primary platform. Seems you forgot about the Alpha. As far as tny numbers. thats from the inquirer (lemming bible). the numbers the boasted was somthing like 30 million dollars in the first month of production as they so nicely refered to as a "quarter", when most people understand a "quarter" as 3 months. Itanium is a huge sucess, too bad you are clueless to the uses. your a blind lemming that will blow any point out of whack to suit your needs.

"And your timeframe is laughable especially considering said windows is not the next generation of windows, and its not replacing xp, it, like the ia64 windows, is a niche product for a niche market"

No, its realistic for Microsoft to re-engineer a whole new OS to overcome the current limitations with true x86 version of the OS.

"The hammers 32 bit performance should be greater than anything out when its released, and the 64 bit is only sweeter, you constantly forget this when you post your fff's, the hammer does NOT need a windowsx86-64 to succeed, it runs current window's faster than anything.*"

Purely a guess on your part about the performance as you do not know what will be available when the Hammer is released. and you have no clue how the Hammer will perform period. Pure speculation and wishfull thinking.

Consumers will not pay extra for a x86-64 CPU that is made for server and workstation applications to run just 32bit windows at home. There are no 64bit applications yet for consumers. put 2 plus 2 together and you have no market on release except for Linux servers and development.

From what I have read there is a Linux version that works on the Hammer in theory, and that the software simulator was able to produce a compiler that works.

No one was able to touch the demo at IDF, it was running a canned demo. I have very little faith in canned demo's.

The only Hammer on display was one in the socket on a non operating machine with HSF off.

Windows 32bit on one running MS word/excel loop and the other at a linux command prompt. Like I said no one was allowed to touch them. The cases were closed. It may have been smoke and mirrors from AMD during IDF like some of the people who attended the showing claimed. We know AMD did this during IDF to disrupt any momentum Intel had with developers and to capture new deveopers at the gathering. As most of the developers to show up would never consider AMD in the first place.

I was not allowed to attend the closed doors events, but there a lot of reviews published on this subject on the net.

In the end Microsoft has stated <A HREF="http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/win64/32compat_76gj.asp" target="_new">x86-64 and the limitations of doing both.</A>

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
 

AMD_Man

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In the end Microsoft has stated x86-64 and the limitations of doing both.

Hmm, that's the limitation of IA64. The x86-64 should be able to able to jump from 32-bit mode to 64-bit mode and vise versa seemlessly.


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FUGGER

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"The hammer has been in the works for several years as well, and you seem to think windows wont work in 64 bit, prey tell, where do you get your inside information?"

Look at the above link at atteched from Microsoft. ROFL@U

The Hammer will zero extend 32 bit code to 64bits, using software code morphing. These zeros will take up bandwidth on the bus and is a very lame approach to solving the problem. A much better approach was to use SMP with the dual cores while operating @ 32bits right? The Hammer cannot do this.

You forget I work with the <A HREF="http://www.pmc-sierra.com/products/details/rm9000x2/" target="_new">PMC-Sierra</A>. I have good reason to stay current with the Hammer and its development.

Even when I said the Hammer was dual 32bit cores you tried to call me a liar and I had to shut you up. Now that you admit the dual cores is true your still trying to call me a liar, Get a life loser.

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
 

FUGGER

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Read more, this page is reference from x86-64. This is why IA64 windows cannot operate on the Hammer.

stuck? type x86-64 in the search field.

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.

I change AI to IA, my mistake so you dont need to re-quote what I had in order to prove me wrong.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by fugger on 04/21/02 06:31 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

AMD_Man

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Read more, this page is reference from x86-64. This is why AI64 windows cannot operate on the Hammer.

stuck? type x86-64 in the search field.
Lol, that's pathetic. There's x86 and 64 on the page, but not x86-64. You're trying to hard to make a point that doesn't exist.

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