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Pentium 4A

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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 25, 2002 2:41:20 AM

I'm trying to decide what kind of processer to get between a P4 or Athlon, and checked out the post at http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q2/020402/index.html
that compared the two...and found out that there is a P4 and a P4A. Who sells the P4A and what makes it different than the P4, it scored a lot higher on the benchmarks. Also when the new P4's come out with the 133*4 fsb how long before the prices drop on the regular P4's and Athlon's? I want to get the most bang for my buck:) 
Thanks

More about : pentium

April 25, 2002 3:21:25 AM

The A is the designation for the "Northwood" core P4's

The Northwoods have 512k cache, .13 micron die, 100Mhz FSB x4 (400Mhz effective), and other improvements in the core design.

The original P4 "Wilmette" is .18 micron and has 256k cache.

The newest P4-B is to be released soon, As AMD just announced new products Intel will follow suit.

The P4-B will have 133FSB x4 (533Mhz effective), same core.

P4A's are great overclockers and perform great stock and almost a no brainer to build correctly the first time if your building a system from scratch.

If your building and AMD system you will be doing a lot of research on what works and what sucks in terms of motherboards, chipsets, ram speeds, and cooling.

Ill let someone else give you the AMD sales pitch.

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
April 25, 2002 3:25:10 AM

your best bet is the P4 NW these come with 512K while the regular P4's come with 256K.

Newegg has the boxed 1.6A for $128.00 down from $135 a couple of wks ago.

by default you can bring this chip past 2GHz

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
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April 25, 2002 11:58:13 AM

Don't listen to Fugger's trolling towards AMD.
First of all, they don't require major cooling. In fact, son the Tbred 0.13m versions of AthlonXPs are coming out, they will probably run even cooler than Northwoods. You would only need the Retail box with no case fans to add, and if you buy the new motherboards like Asus A7V333, you get thermal protection.
If you do NOT overclock, the P4 under 2GHZ is not a good buy AT ALL. It's just not worth the brand recognition. At that time an AthlonXP is perfect. If you do OC or plan to, get the 1.6A with 512K cache and OC the hell out of it. Most get it safely to 2.2GHZ with no problems, saving you over 300$.

--
Thunderbirds in wintertime, Northwoods in summertime! :lol: 
April 25, 2002 12:24:21 PM

With a P4 1.6A, 2.13GHz is virtually guaranteed. With a P4 1.8A, 2.4GHz is virtually guaranteed. With a P4 2.0A, 2.66GHz is virtually guaranteed. With a P4 2.2GHz and up, overclocking gets harder.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 25, 2002 3:23:02 PM

Whatever you get, dont get a P4 without "A". A P4A "northwood" or Athlon will both serve you just fine. Dont fall for the fastest benchmarks, and ask yourself, do I need a 2 Ghz (or 2000+) cpu ? You dont need it for gaming, not for office/internet/email, not for casual photoshop.. Unless you encode DVDs to DivX all day or something, the slowest cpu's on the market will probably do just fine. If money matters, invest it in a good monitor, fast videocard for gaming, lost of ram for windows XP (512 mb *really* helps), etc, etc. Whatever is left of your budget, use it to buy your cpu.

just my 2 cents though

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
April 25, 2002 3:41:18 PM

The exception to that rule is the 2.2 and 2.4, which are both Northwood and have no need for a separate designation (since there are no Wilamettes at those speeds).

Fugger, you forgot the 'a' in Willamette.
BTW, I never really thought about it before, but the Willamette is a really nasty, polluted river. Kind of fitting...

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
April 25, 2002 7:16:03 PM

"Don't listen to Fugger's trolling towards AMD."

Check the mirror, you will see who is trolling.

Total BS on your behalf, All northwoods kick ass in video editing, games, graphics, and audio apps. without overclocking.

"If you do OC or plan to, get the 1.6A with 512K cache and OC the hell out of it. Most get it safely to 2.2GHZ with no problems, saving you over 300$."

The 1.6a is fine at stock speeds too, its cheap and perfroms great at that price. This is a "backfill" cpu as Intel no longer makes chips that slow, when you read the CPU ID with sandra it lists the CPU as 2G+.

I have reached 2.8Ghz with my 1.6A and I have seen others over 3.2Ghz. I doubt you will reach an OC like that but it is possible if you try.

Unlike Eden I own a P4, I speak from experiance.

AMD relies on mobo makers to incorporate thermal protection. not very many have introduced this in their products yet. most of the existing boards on the market do not have this feature working properly.

The Tbred will have higher Vcore than the P4 and will most likely run hotter at idle and under load with a stock HSF installed. A few more days and this will be proven one way or the other.

If you go to Asus website, you will see a picture at the top of the page of a AMD socket with flames roaring out. Granted it is hype but there is some truth to the ad in question. I laughed when I saw this but this is how they choose to do marketing.

Even with the above said changes to the AMD core, AMD has declined to use its own thermal protection on die. And this has been a sore spot for AMD for a very long time.

Let me repeat, AMD has no intrest in protecting your CPU investment. To boot, OEM's refuse to use AMD for that reason alone. who wants a CPU that can destroy itself and the socket it sits in? Eden does!

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
April 25, 2002 7:22:28 PM

I declied to post negative stuff about AMD at first but after being trolled I felt no need to hold back any longer.

Intel has highest compatability as everything is built to Intel spec (including AMD cpu's)

Intel is not prone to self destruction without provocation.

You can throw all your parts in a box and chances are it will work perfect the first time you apply the power.

With AMD you will be doing more researching than actual building. and after building, chances are you will be doing troubleshooting why your AMD doesnt boot, locks up, reboots, or overheats.

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
April 25, 2002 8:08:06 PM

Please don't blame AMD for the platform problems. I know AMD has it's problem but major problem users run into are problems with the Chipsets that AMD processors support. I haven't seen a decent chipset which is as stable as any of the Intel chipsets out there. That's one of the biggest reason I don't prefer AMD. I love pluggin in stuff and just have it running without troubleshooting. Even most of the AMD fans will agree that AMD doen't have any good chipsets. Of course there are thouse fans who will always believe that AMD's is as stable as Intel's because they can't accept that Intel has the most rock solid platform you can buy out there.

KG

<b>"Hey! It compiles! Ship it!"</b>
April 25, 2002 8:48:13 PM

Oh seriously Fugger, go tell everyone how the Willamette ran cooler than an AthlonXP, we'll beleive you. Same thing would occur to 0.13m. I am not experienced in semiconductors, but Matisaro is, maybe he could explain possible temps.
Another thing, at stock, the 1.6A is easily crunched by an AXP 1800+ WHICH STILL COSTS less. So your statement is rather bold at best.My AXP 1600+ 1.4GHZ says PR2050 in Sandra, so nah!

AMD relies on mobo makers as they have to. They don't have all the money like Intel, and never will, but who cares, AMD has continued to defy Intel and succeed, as well as those who build their own PCs should be aware of how they put their HSFs before turning it on. Most mobos recently without the AMD's thermal prot, work too. My Epox 8KHA+ automatically detects the warn temp I gave it and signals any heat problems.

Why would Tbred have a higher Vcore? Isn't NW 1.5V?

Fugger you just like to annoy me, I know that, but you should know by now, not even 1\10th of the people here beleive you or even would like to discuss with you, as like athomso said, you definitly prove your sig's meaning on yourself.

--
Thunderbirds in wintertime, Northwoods in summertime! :lol: 
April 25, 2002 8:53:44 PM

Quote:
So your statement is rather bold at best.My AXP 1600+ 1.4GHZ says PR2050 in Sandra, so nah!


That doesn't help you much.

Tbred with have a vCore of 1.65, can't remember where I saw that, but I remember thinking it was a reliable source. The .15 higher vCore will probably make the difference in it running hotter than Northwood, though it's hard to say.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
April 25, 2002 9:55:44 PM

Yeah I know, but he wanted to prove himself so much with the fake Sandra results that I had to show him how mine still does better lower clocked. (again because he brought up the idea of a 1.6A stock being so good)

BTW I also had read on 1.65Vcore, but I am not sure as it was the only place saying that. THG here <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q2/020402/p4_2400-01...." target="_new">http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q2/020402/p4_2400-01....;/A> says it's 1.5V. Anand says so too. Check AMD's website too if needed.

--
Thunderbirds in wintertime, Northwoods in summertime! :lol:  <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 04/25/02 05:59 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 25, 2002 9:58:33 PM

And you didn't prove a thing...?

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
April 25, 2002 11:07:30 PM

lol, sorry, why don't you just let the guy get either! I'm tired of Fugger saying the Athlon is garbage and the P4 is perfect. BOTH CPUS HAVE THEIR PITFALLS!

Want to hear a secret?

You don't lose anything going with either processor, no matter what anyone says! THEY ARE COMPETITORS! If one becomes clearly ahead of the other, then they're no longer competitors. Thus, the fact that both Intel and AMD are still in business and thriving suggests that they are both competiting quite well, and the consumer wins either way. In this day and age, choosing a processor is all about preference. Some people now prefer the P4 because the new Northwood generally overclock higher than the AXP. Others prefer the AXP because it's faster at stock speed for any given amount of money. The P4 still has superior thermal protection, but with the proper motherboard, the Athlon (XP) also has comparable thermal protection.

The P4 has SSE2, which improves performance in some apps. The Athlon (XP) is faster than the P4 in most apps at it's given frequency and even sometimes at any given equivalency rating, but the P4 has more memory bandwidth so it's superior in video editing. The Athlon excels at business apps and games, while the P4 excels at any type of streaming data due to its larger L2 cache and extra memory bandwidth (provided you get RDRAM). The P4 was DESIGNED FOR STREAMING DATA (video, audio,etc) FROM THEN BEGINNING. That's what "Netburst" is! It's the "nickname" for the P4's superior performance in streaming data.

The same applies for the Athlon in games and business apps when comparing to equivalently rated (and similarly priced) processors.

However, all in all, the P4 has the general lead in performance at the moment with the 2.4GHz P4.
In my opinion, anyone who questions this reasoning is the true so-called "troll".

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
April 26, 2002 12:18:12 AM

Quote:
That doesn't help you much.

Tbred with have a vCore of 1.65, can't remember where I saw that, but I remember thinking it was a reliable source. The .15 higher vCore will probably make the difference in it running hotter than Northwood, though it's hard to say.


That may or may not be so(I lean towards may) but fuggers little stipulation(stock cooling) virtually ensures he is right on that call.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
April 26, 2002 12:54:17 AM

Quote:
P4A's are great overclockers and perform great stock and almost a no brainer to build correctly the first time if your building a system from scratch.

BS. I've built enough systems to know that Intel platforms can be just as problematic as AMD platforms.

Quote:
The Tbred will have higher Vcore than the P4 and will most likely run hotter at idle and under load with a stock HSF installed. A few more days and this will be proven one way or the other.

Funny, FatBurger's overclocked Northwood apparently runs hotter than his old T-bird, even using more fans.

Quote:
Let me repeat, AMD has no [interest] in protecting your CPU investment. To boot, OEM's refuse to use AMD for that reason alone. who wants a CPU that can destroy itself and the socket it sits in? Eden does!

No, Eden and the rest of us know how to implement effective thermal protection when it <i>isn't</i> on die. Apparently the techniques for doing this escaped you somehow.

<i>If a server crashes in a server farm and no one pings it, does it still cost four figures to fix?
April 26, 2002 1:00:02 AM

Quote:
No, Eden and the rest of us know how to implement effective thermal protection when it isn't on die. Apparently the techniques for doing this escaped you somehow.


Fugger went to the meltdown school of heatsink application, where he graducated magne cum loudest, he couldnt put a hsf on properly to save his life.


He did fry his gf3 after all.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
April 26, 2002 1:14:09 AM

So you mean Fugger's right Tbred will be hotter?

--
Thunderbirds in wintertime, Northwoods in summertime! :lol: 
April 26, 2002 1:15:27 AM

Bless you for that bless you!
Sadly Fugger WILL never admit those real facts like you do, so he will remain a troll.
I would gladly admit most of them, although we both have our own views, but yeah both CPUs are now equal so it's no point to argue which is better because of what!


--
Thunderbirds in wintertime, Northwoods in summertime! :lol: 
April 26, 2002 1:18:54 AM

Ok that does it for now. Forgive me for coming out like this but that does it:
I wish you would lay the hell of my back man!!!

God damn it, each time I say something you almost always use little sentences that only serve a purpose of going against me. Look man I am 15, and if I can't say anything here without being judged, and making mistakes for my age especially since I don't have any degree in any IT knowledge, then please tell me so I won't talk here anymore. You've been doing this recently at me and I am really pissed at that. I wish you would just stop doing so and lighten up for once, because I always admired you as well as many others here, and I would like it if we remained buds in this forum, and not the way you're acting towards me.

Now if your current post meant otherwise to me, then forget what you read above, otherwise I'll use it at another time if you DO pick again on me.

Again sorry for coming out here, but I've noticed you really love to piss some off with those little sentences, and you've done that to me, which I am very sad at the way you just won't be peaceful with me.

--
Thunderbirds in wintertime, Northwoods in summertime! :lol: 
April 26, 2002 1:31:49 AM

Im yet to harm any CPU (AMD or Intel) although I did have a pair of AMD's that came in with HSF dislodged in shipping that both fried in no time flat.

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
April 26, 2002 1:43:00 AM

Ditto.

i have no idea how people manage to fry things.
shame about your slipped HS. you shouldda checked first. always a good habit to get into.

Despite appearances im not Phsysic. I may need your system specifications to solve your problem!
April 26, 2002 2:02:30 AM

Quote:
So you mean Fugger's right Tbred will be hotter?


In fuggers terms, (with stock hsf) then probably.


In general, the voltage is higher, but the clockspeed is lower, but the die is smaller, so its too hard to call, 50/50 IMO.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
April 26, 2002 2:02:59 AM

I agree with your post, sad this thread got trolled off topic so far.

Borden, any other questions?

Whats your budget?




You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
April 26, 2002 2:33:52 AM

Last I saw, you're the one who trolled around claming Athlons require so much research on cooling, as well as chipsets. Whether it's an ECS K7S5A, Asus A7V333, Epox 8KHA+, they are all used around and no one has any problems using them. (except the Epox with the GF4 card size.)

--
Thunderbirds in wintertime, Northwoods in summertime! :lol: 
April 26, 2002 2:35:23 AM

Problem is, I have read different statements on Tbred's Vcore. THG says it is 1.5V, others say 1.65V. If it was 1.5V, wouldn't it logically be less hot? If not then what explains the Willy being so hot and not NW, when Palomino wasn't as hot but wouldn't be much cooler on 0.13m?

--
Thunderbirds in wintertime, Northwoods in summertime! :lol: 
April 26, 2002 3:23:29 AM

If the vCores are the same (1.5v) then the Northwood will definitely be hotter, because of higher clock speeds and the larger die. If the Tbred is 1.65v like I believe it is supposed to be, then the Northwood will most probably be cooler.

As for being on your back, I treat everyone equally. If it seems like I'm going after you for whatever reason, then I'm sorry, I'm not. I call it as I see it. If Fugger or Meltdown have a good post, I'll say so. If they don't, I'll usually miss the rush and not have a reason to say so :tongue:

As for saying "that probably didn't help you much", I meant that your saying the XP is better because Sandra says it's a 2050 instead of the 1600+ it should be, it doesn't strike me as a very persuasive argument. We all know that Sandra doesn't dive PR ratings very well.

<font color=blue>If you don't buy Windows, then the terrorists have already won!</font color=blue> - Microsoft
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 26, 2002 4:15:45 AM

Well, thanks a whole lot for the information and opinions on both sides...I really appreciate the help. I've put a couple systems together before, but never overclocked or anything like that. I was reading through the posts and someone has stated that Intel is dropping prices May 15th by 57%, is this true? And if so, how long before it actually affects people like you and me? My budget on a chip is going to have to be less than $250, but I don't have to spend that much. I use my systems primarily for gaming and burning cd's...I just bought a couple Asus Geforce 4600's because I love gaming so much. Is overclocking safe? If so, do I have to do anything to ensure that I don't destroy my board and chip? And how do I overclock...I tried with an early system with a motherboard by going into the BIOS and changing the CPU speed, but it wouldn't accept it. I know absolutly nothing about overclocking so if it's too much to post on this website my email is d.borden@attbi.com. Thanks for helping a newbie:) 
Dan
April 26, 2002 7:12:16 AM

In my experiance overclocking the P4 is very safe as I have yet to hurt a CPU or motherboard.

I push my P4 to the edge, Its a very durable CPU.

$250 for a CPU is more than most people spend, you will have plenty of choices next price drop.

Reguarding stock voltages; the base Tbreds will be 1.6v and the top grade only will be 1.65, I posted that info a few days ago.

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
April 26, 2002 9:20:32 AM

Hello to everybody.

In order to help you, I can tell some conclusions that I have after lot of reading and (regreateably) not too much practice.

Probably the most important thing for you (objective: gaming, burning CD) is the graphic component (and you have bought a good one). What ever CPU you buy will do it very well so better you save some of your money for a later upgrade. If I am not wrong (if anybody disagree just tell me), going from 1.6Ghz (AMD or Intel) to 2.4Ghz doesn't translate into 50% more fps (if fact the % is low). That's because a 1.6Ghz CPU is not a real bottlenet.

But maybe you can invest in a good motherboard, specially thinking in the future. Be sure to take one that is stable, well-known manufacturer, that support future processors (high multipliers, future bandwith, etc.). This will give you room enough. Just to show my case, I have a 1.2Ghz Tbird, but I know for sure that I can change to and XP in the future, even to Barton. And for me, it's all that I need.

For the overclocking issue, just tell you that as far as you do it with measure and caution, there is little risk. There is a lot of articles explainig how to overclock. Just look around the web, in Tomswardware, www.tweak3d.net, and many more. Ready some of them an extract your conclusions.

Burning a processor is something that I have never seen, and I think it is really strange IF you do the things right. Logically when you overclock you are playing on your own, but again, applie common sense and nothing happens.

Hope that I help you.
April 26, 2002 9:50:37 AM

If you plan to overclock get the P4A. If you do not plan to overclock either the AMD XP or P4A will fit you needs.

BTW compare prices between AMD and Intel at Newegg.com.

If you are going with AMD, I recommend getting a retail box unit, the heatsink\fan is quiet and you get a three year warranty. Get a KT266A or KT333 mb, do a search, with PC2100 and you will be good to go.

"Just the facts ma'am"
April 26, 2002 12:11:58 PM

mmm i feel sorry for the guy who just wanted information here on the P4A, ok so i guess he finally got it, but for some reason it broke out into another Intel/AMD war :) 

My system runs off a AthlonXP 1900+ it runs warm, but stable...i like it (it was the first system i ever put together) but i appreciate that the P4 NW is an excellant chip too.


can't we all get along ;) 
!