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Radiant Servant of Pelor

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Anonymous
June 16, 2005 4:00:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Is it me, or is this PrC totally underpowered? Why would anyone take
this when they could just keep taking levels of cleric and get so much more?

- Ron ^*^

More about : radiant servant pelor

Anonymous
June 16, 2005 4:50:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Werebat wrote:
> Is it me, or is this PrC totally underpowered? Why would anyone take
> this when they could just keep taking levels of cleric and get so much more?

Tee-hee-hee ... Good one.

Silveraxe.
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 2:27:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in
news:kP6se.16531$Hj.2160@lakeread02:

> Is it me, or is this PrC totally underpowered? Why would anyone take
> this when they could just keep taking levels of cleric and get so much
> more?



Bad Ron. Bad Bad boy. *hits you in the nose with a rolled up newspaper*
BAD!
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 3:46:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <1118908257.795165.211910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
avidroleplayer@yahoo.com says...

> > Is it me, or is this PrC totally underpowered? Why would anyone take
> > this when they could just keep taking levels of cleric and get so much more?
>
> Tee-hee-hee ... Good one.

It's kind of obvious, but then, it's Ron. I don't think I'd bet money he
won't reel in at least someone...


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 3:46:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Werebat wrote:
>
> Is it me, or is this PrC totally underpowered? Why would anyone take
> this when they could just keep taking levels of cleric and get so much
> more?

OMG, you fool. Sure, if you wanna play nothing but a glorified first-aid kit and
undead-sploder!

--
Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you
understand?
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigec...
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatel...

Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the
leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to
danger. It works the same in any country.
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 5:45:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Werebat wrote:
> Christopher Adams wrote:
> > Werebat wrote:
> >
> >>Is it me, or is this PrC totally underpowered? Why would anyone take
> >>this when they could just keep taking levels of cleric and get so much
> >>more?
> >
> > OMG, you fool. Sure, if you wanna play nothing but a glorified first-aid kit and
> > undead-sploder!
>
> I'm not sure which side you're on here... Or was Jason right?

I believe the answers he expected would've been along the lines of:

"OMG, you IDOIT!!!1! A cleric is SO MUCH MORE thEn a first-aid kit and
undead turner!!! In 3E, whihc is teh best system ever, a cleric can
cast spells and fight and [clerics are great] and [clerics have kewl
powaz] and [my cleric is even more awesome than the average cleric.]
Your stupid if you don't like clerics and there abilitys!!1!1!one!!!"

Silveraxe.
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 8:20:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Christopher Adams wrote:
> Werebat wrote:
>
>>Is it me, or is this PrC totally underpowered? Why would anyone take
>>this when they could just keep taking levels of cleric and get so much
>>more?
>
>
> OMG, you fool. Sure, if you wanna play nothing but a glorified first-aid kit and
> undead-sploder!

I'm not sure which side you're on here... Or was Jason right?

- Ron ^*^
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 3:10:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <Aalse.16643$Hj.11629@lakeread02>, ranpoirier@cox.net says...

> >>Is it me, or is this PrC totally underpowered? Why would anyone take
> >>this when they could just keep taking levels of cleric and get so much
> >>more?
> >
> > OMG, you fool. Sure, if you wanna play nothing but a glorified first-aid kit and
> > undead-sploder!
>
> I'm not sure which side you're on here... Or was Jason right?

Did Chris just reverse-troll you?

BTW, it's Jasin.


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 3:10:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> ranpoirier@cox.net says...
>
>>>> Is it me, or is this PrC totally underpowered? Why would anyone take
>>>> this when they could just keep taking levels of cleric and get so much
>>>> more?
>>>
>>> OMG, you fool. Sure, if you wanna play nothing but a glorified
>>> first-aid kit and undead-sploder!
>>
>> I'm not sure which side you're on here... Or was Jason right?
>
> Did Chris just reverse-troll you?

Me = WINNAR

--
Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you
understand?
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigec...
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatel...

Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the
leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to
danger. It works the same in any country.
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 3:22:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote:

> I dunno. Seriously, to become a RSP, you have to give up one hit point
> per hit die, which is like taking the reverse of Improved Toughness.
> That's like losing a feat. So it's like you lose a feat AND you lose
> all those skill points to Heal and Knowledge:Religion. On top of that
> you have to be a cleric with spheres of Sun and Healing to qualify and
> enjoy all of the benefits, so it is very restricted in who can take it
> -- this is a perfect balancing factor according to some, but others may
> find it to be too restrictive and may never take the RSP PrC even if
> they are playing priests of Pelor who want to branch out into something
> better like Mystic Theurge.

> - Ron ^*^

Heh. Actually, I've been considering just that class for my current Living
Greyhawk character...who already *was* a 'walking first aid kit (of Pelor)'
with maxed-out Heal skill before I ever heard of Complete Divine. Originally
I had no ambitions for him beyond remaining a plain non-combat monster
vanilla cleric up to whatever level I might be able to get him, but since
he quite by accident does meet the prerequisites (short of Extra Turning
and a few more points in Knowledge: Religion, both of which can be easily
arranged come level 6), I have been kind of tempted. I mean, if WotC come
up with a custom-built prestige class just for my character... ;) 

There's still plenty of time to make up my mind, of course. At the moment
I only play LG at two or three small local cons a year, and Elias only made
it to level 4 during the most recent one. Who knows...by the time he gets
to where he could become a Radiant Servant we may be playing D&D 4 already.

--
Klaus Mittag (mittag@informatik.uni-frankfurt.de)
#include <disclaimer.h>
#include <fancysig.h>
spam > /dev/null
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 7:37:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

freakybaby wrote:
> Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in

>>I dunno. Seriously, to become a RSP, you have to give up one hit
>>point per hit die, which is like taking the reverse of Improved
>>Toughness. That's like losing a feat. So it's like you lose a feat
>
>
> I think you were dropped on your head an odd number of times as an
> infant, someone really needs to drop yuou on your head again too see if
> an even number helps you think things through any better.

Nice ad hominem. You can't prevail against the argument, so you attack
the man. Earmark of a lost cause on your part.


> It is not like
> losing a feat, it is just the trade-off for the power you will be granted
> from RSP.

It's exactly like losing the feat in that the character would have to
take the feat in order to set things back to normal. Yes, it is
supposed to be a trade-off, but it is much too great a price to pay for
the paltry ability or two that you get. Most players will agree that
you are better off just sticking with cleric.


>>AND you lose all those skill points to Heal and Knowledge:Religion.
>
>
> What are you pissing and moaning about, 5 ranks heal is nothing for a
> cleric. Myself when I play a cleric I preffer to have a number of ranks
> equal to 15 ranks minus my wisdom modifer in heal.

Right, but you don't HAVE to. The fact that you HAVE to is the
restriction here, and while some may feel it to be balanced, I think
it's pretty obvious that the cost far outweighs the benefits.


>>On top of that you have to be a cleric with spheres of Sun and Healing
>>to qualify and enjoy all of the benefits, so it is very restricted in
>>who can take it
>
>
> What is so wrong with that, hell you even gain a domain at 5th level of
> RSP. What is the problem then?

The problem is that you have to sacrifice so much to even qualify for
RSP, and you get so little out of the bargain.

When you balance these sorts of things, you have to make sure that it
passes two tests. First, would anyone take it? If no one would ever
take the feat/PrC/spell/whatever, it is too weak. Second, would anyone
NOT take it? If everyone would take it, it is too powerful.

Not many people would be tempted to take a PrC as weak and feeble as the
RSP, and you certainly can't say that everyone WOULD take it. I have
played in four 3E games so far and only one person has decided to play a
RSP, so it is clearly an inferior class.


>>-- this is a perfect balancing factor according to
>>some, but others may find it to be too restrictive
>
>
> Restrictive, I actually think the requirements are just a bit weak for
> what you get in the end.

Compare the RSP to the straight cleric and ask yourself why ANYONE would
prefer to take RSP. There really aren't any good reasons because the
cleric is not only EQUAL to the RSP in almost all ways, it actually
OUTSTRIPS it in several key areas such as hit points.


>>and may never take
>>the RSP PrC even if they are playing priests of Pelor who want to
>>branch out into something better like Mystic Theurge.
>
>
> Yes Mystic Theurge is a nice PrC, though managing too spell lists is more
> than I want to deal with at game.

This is your personal preference, which shouldn't be a factor here. We
are looking at objective, impartial comparisons of power. The basic
cleric of Pelor is far more versatile and powerful than the RSP.

- Ron ^*^
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 8:55:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in news:3EFse.22$up5.13@lakeread02:

>
>
> freakybaby wrote:
>> Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in
>
>>>I dunno. Seriously, to become a RSP, you have to give up one hit
>>>point per hit die, which is like taking the reverse of Improved
>>>Toughness. That's like losing a feat. So it's like you lose a feat
>>
>>
>> I think you were dropped on your head an odd number of times as an
>> infant, someone really needs to drop yuou on your head again too see
>> if an even number helps you think things through any better.
>
> Nice ad hominem. You can't prevail against the argument, so you
> attack the man. Earmark of a lost cause on your part.

No I just have nothing better to do, since I have gotten fridays off for
the summer with pay. So babbling back at your troll post will help pass
the time today.

>> It is not like
>> losing a feat, it is just the trade-off for the power you will be
>> granted from RSP.
>
> It's exactly like losing the feat in that the character would have to
> take the feat in order to set things back to normal. Yes, it is
> supposed to be a trade-off, but it is much too great a price to pay
> for the paltry ability or two that you get. Most players will agree
> that you are better off just sticking with cleric.

Who in their right mind would do that? Scribe scroll, craft wand or
possibly brew potion would be a better use of a feat

>>>AND you lose all those skill points to Heal and Knowledge:Religion.
>>
>>
>> What are you pissing and moaning about, 5 ranks heal is nothing for a
>> cleric. Myself when I play a cleric I preffer to have a number of
>> ranks equal to 15 ranks minus my wisdom modifer in heal.
>
> Right, but you don't HAVE to. The fact that you HAVE to is the
> restriction here, and while some may feel it to be balanced, I think
> it's pretty obvious that the cost far outweighs the benefits.
>
>
>>>On top of that you have to be a cleric with spheres of Sun and
>>>Healing to qualify and enjoy all of the benefits, so it is very
>>>restricted in who can take it
>>
>>
>> What is so wrong with that, hell you even gain a domain at 5th level
>> of RSP. What is the problem then?
>
> The problem is that you have to sacrifice so much to even qualify for
> RSP, and you get so little out of the bargain.

You sacrifice on average one hit point. Not a big deal.

> When you balance these sorts of things, you have to make sure that it
> passes two tests. First, would anyone take it? If no one would ever
> take the feat/PrC/spell/whatever, it is too weak. Second, would
> anyone NOT take it? If everyone would take it, it is too powerful.
>
> Not many people would be tempted to take a PrC as weak and feeble as
> the RSP, and you certainly can't say that everyone WOULD take it.

No not everyone would take it, nor would everyone take Mystic Theurge, or
any other PrC. People tend not to play the same characters over and over
again. Nor have noticed that groups recycle other players past character
ideas either.

> I
> have played in four 3E games so far and only one person has decided to
> play a RSP, so it is clearly an inferior class.

That is four cases of different ideas for different characters. Plus how
many of those games were ran before May 2001, which was the month Dragon
#283 was release which contained RSP?


>>>-- this is a perfect balancing factor according to
>>>some, but others may find it to be too restrictive
>>
>>
>> Restrictive, I actually think the requirements are just a bit weak
>> for what you get in the end.
>
> Compare the RSP to the straight cleric and ask yourself why ANYONE
> would prefer to take RSP. There really aren't any good reasons
> because the cleric is not only EQUAL to the RSP in almost all ways, it
> actually OUTSTRIPS it in several key areas such as hit points.

*blinks* The only down side is the D6 hitpoints, everything else is plus
in addition to the regualr cleric and you know it.

Tell me what does the cleric have that makes it outstrip the RSP.

>
>>>and may never take
>>>the RSP PrC even if they are playing priests of Pelor who want to
>>>branch out into something better like Mystic Theurge.
>>
>>
>> Yes Mystic Theurge is a nice PrC, though managing too spell lists is
>> more than I want to deal with at game.
>
> This is your personal preference, which shouldn't be a factor here.
> We are looking at objective, impartial comparisons of power. The
> basic cleric of Pelor is far more versatile and powerful than the RSP.


List out the pros and cons fr us then. Having played a RSP once before I
was very happy with the results and had a very effective battle cleric for
a character.
!