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I started pointing out this problem in the Ready thread, but the
discussion quickly fragmented into a myriad tiny arguments about
various obscure rules, and the point was lost.
So I'm gonna try to make my point about why the Ready and Flatfooted
rules are flawed once more, with an example. Here goes:
*** *** ***
Having escaped from the torture chambers of the Dread Lord Apo'Strophe,
Rachel the Level 20 Rogue is skulking around in the forest around his
castle, evading the guards (level 3 Fighters armed with bows) and
trying to figure out a way to get her equipment and weapons back. She's
currently hiding in the bushes around a large (25' radius) clearing,
when one of two things happens.
--- Encounter A ---
Two guards arrive and stop in the middle of the clearing. They strain
their eyes and ears, trying to locate Rachel. Obviously, they fail.
Suddenly, Rachel charges from the bushes! Catching one of the guards
flatfooted, she slams her fist into his throat. The resulting 1d3+10d6
nonlethal damage knocks him unconscious.
Cowed by this display of martial prowess, the other guard surrenders.
Rachel interrogates him and gets important information about the
castle's security. Her quest continues...
--- Encounter B ---
Two guards arrive. They are hostile to each other; one of them has just
found out that the other seduced his sister, and the argument
escalated. They're now in a fight to the death. They stop in the middle
of the clearing, about 10' from each other, trying to kill one another
with arrows.
Suddenly (and unwisely), Rachel charges from the bushes! Catching
nobody flatfooted (they're in combat, after all), she hits one of the
guards for a whopping 1d3 damage. Both guards decide to yell for help
and fight back against this new threat. Rachel eventually gets the
upper hand, but the damage is done: the clearing is surrounded by more
guards. Rachel is taken back to the castle in chains.
*** *** ***
Now, I know this is an extreme example. Please don't tell me about what
Rachel could have done. The point is that the two guards in Encounter A
could do _nothing_ to stop her from Sneak Attacking them. That kind of
makes sense; she's 17 levels above them, after all.
The question, then, is this: how come she couldn't sneak attack the
guards in Encounter B? They weren't even really looking for her; they
were fighting each other. Nonetheless, since they were in full-fledged,
deadly combat (initiative and all), they were somehow protected from
her sneak attacks.
Understand this example, and you'll understand my problem with the
Flatfooted rules, and with the rigid in combat <---> not in combat
separation of D&D rules in general.
Laszlo
I started pointing out this problem in the Ready thread, but the
discussion quickly fragmented into a myriad tiny arguments about
various obscure rules, and the point was lost.
So I'm gonna try to make my point about why the Ready and Flatfooted
rules are flawed once more, with an example. Here goes:
*** *** ***
Having escaped from the torture chambers of the Dread Lord Apo'Strophe,
Rachel the Level 20 Rogue is skulking around in the forest around his
castle, evading the guards (level 3 Fighters armed with bows) and
trying to figure out a way to get her equipment and weapons back. She's
currently hiding in the bushes around a large (25' radius) clearing,
when one of two things happens.
--- Encounter A ---
Two guards arrive and stop in the middle of the clearing. They strain
their eyes and ears, trying to locate Rachel. Obviously, they fail.
Suddenly, Rachel charges from the bushes! Catching one of the guards
flatfooted, she slams her fist into his throat. The resulting 1d3+10d6
nonlethal damage knocks him unconscious.
Cowed by this display of martial prowess, the other guard surrenders.
Rachel interrogates him and gets important information about the
castle's security. Her quest continues...
--- Encounter B ---
Two guards arrive. They are hostile to each other; one of them has just
found out that the other seduced his sister, and the argument
escalated. They're now in a fight to the death. They stop in the middle
of the clearing, about 10' from each other, trying to kill one another
with arrows.
Suddenly (and unwisely), Rachel charges from the bushes! Catching
nobody flatfooted (they're in combat, after all), she hits one of the
guards for a whopping 1d3 damage. Both guards decide to yell for help
and fight back against this new threat. Rachel eventually gets the
upper hand, but the damage is done: the clearing is surrounded by more
guards. Rachel is taken back to the castle in chains.
*** *** ***
Now, I know this is an extreme example. Please don't tell me about what
Rachel could have done. The point is that the two guards in Encounter A
could do _nothing_ to stop her from Sneak Attacking them. That kind of
makes sense; she's 17 levels above them, after all.
The question, then, is this: how come she couldn't sneak attack the
guards in Encounter B? They weren't even really looking for her; they
were fighting each other. Nonetheless, since they were in full-fledged,
deadly combat (initiative and all), they were somehow protected from
her sneak attacks.
Understand this example, and you'll understand my problem with the
Flatfooted rules, and with the rigid in combat <---> not in combat
separation of D&D rules in general.
Laszlo