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P4 1800 MHZ Northwood Fast Enough ?

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Anonymous
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a b V Motherboard
May 17, 2002 2:08:02 PM

I`m going to upgrade my PC to a faster one, my current system is PIII 866, 256MB (PC133 MHZ standard), 40 GB 7200 RPM Hardisk.

So here`s my question:

How much faster will the P4 1800 MHZ Northwood be, compare to my "old" PIII 866 ?

I hope it going be at least doubble as fast as my PIII 866 ?

Also, i need to buy a new motherboard, as well as new RAM, but is it posibble in the meantime, to actueally use the old PC133 256MB RAM, on a P4 Motherboard ?

Is it possible to avoid installing a floppydisk, when you`r going to build a complete new PC, and instead use the cdrom which will be installed on this new PC ?

I do see a lot of Posting message in Toms hardware gui.. Community, about AMD disskusion VS Intel.

One thing is for shure, i will never buy AMD processor, i have my reasons!.

Henrik
May 17, 2002 4:10:44 PM

Twice as fast depends on what you'll be doing with your computer.

Quote:
is it posibble in the meantime, to actueally use the old PC133 256MB RAM, on a P4 Motherboard ?


Yes, but it will be terrible performance, and you'll have to buy a new motherboard to use anything else.

Quote:
Is it possible to avoid installing a floppydisk, when you`r going to build a complete new PC, and instead use the cdrom which will be installed on this new PC ?


Absolutely. I don't have a floppy drive in my computer anymore.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
May 17, 2002 9:06:08 PM

Just wondering why you wouldn't have a floppy? Is that better some how (sorry I am quite new)

AMD XP 1900+
A7V-333
Geforce 3 TI 200
PC2100 512MB
Related resources
May 17, 2002 9:14:07 PM

It's useless. I haven't touched my floppy drive in more than a year! Get an ABit IT7 or AT7 and don't install a floppy drive and you'll truly have a 21st century PC.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
May 17, 2002 9:14:35 PM

Double post

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by AMD_Man on 05/17/02 06:21 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 17, 2002 9:14:35 PM

Triple post. :eek: 


:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by AMD_Man on 05/17/02 06:22 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 17, 2002 9:23:51 PM

Quote:
One thing is for shure, i will never buy AMD processor, i have my reasons!.


You can reuse that 256 megs of sdram, intel makes p4 sdram boards, also you can get much better value by getting the 1.7ghz p4, its waay cheaper than the 1.8 and only slightly slower.

With your sdram you can have the whole deal for about 300 bucks, enjoy.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
May 17, 2002 10:05:17 PM

I do believe telling someone to get a 1.7 and SDRAM is considered cruel and unusual punishment :lol: 

As for the floppy drive, I just like the feeling of not having it. Kind of like if you go commando one day, you feel so much more free, even though there's not really any benefit.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
May 17, 2002 10:19:15 PM

AMD_Man, I know this forum server is slow sometimes but it nearly always gets the clicks eventually. How about being patient after hitting the Post button instead of double and triple posting??? Mucho appreciated...

Ritesh
May 17, 2002 10:22:40 PM

Sorry... :eek: 

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
a b à CPUs
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May 17, 2002 10:49:50 PM

I use my floppy drive daily, in fact I just installed a new one last night!

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
May 17, 2002 11:16:31 PM

...but you deal with "ancient" systems and obsolete components all the time.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
May 18, 2002 2:47:59 AM

Quote:
You can reuse that 256 megs of sdram, intel makes p4 sdram boards, also you can get much better value by getting the 1.7ghz p4, its waay cheaper than the 1.8 and only slightly slower.

Man isn't tha just a combination made in hell? YOu may as stay with your sytem if you're going to get that. If he's not going to overclock then maybe the 1.7 would be ok, but that SDRAM would seriously kill it. You really need at least PC2700 or PC800 RDRAM to start to utilize the abilities of the P4.

By the way, what kind of video card do you have? If you have a low-end card, then it may be time to upgrade that before your motherboard/CPU/RAM. Like a GF2MX won't all that better on a faster comp. For example on one of my comps a PIII600E with 256MB of PC100 SDRAM and a GF2MX, I got a score of ~2100 in 3D MARK2K1 SE. My buddy has a P4 1.7 with 256MB of PC800 RDRAM and a GF2MX400 with 64MB of meme and he got a whopping 300 points more than me.

My firewall tastes like burning. :eek: 
a b à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 18, 2002 4:20:24 AM

True, just last night I had to dig out an old ISA VGA card to reflash a dead board!

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
May 18, 2002 4:37:03 AM

Quote:
Kind of like if you go commando one day

eww

[insert philosophical statement here]
May 18, 2002 5:15:31 AM

what do you plan on using your computer for? If you just browse the web and do email than your wasting your money.

Only upgrade if what your application that you use or the types of applications you use become too slow (takes 10 minutes to load, takes forever to do something etc...), then upgrade. At least, thats what i recommend.

Too slow is too general of a term. Can you explain what you use your computer for then i can tell you rather or not a 1800mhz (equaivalent to AMD's 1400mhz athlon XP in most (95%) benchmarks) computer is too slow?

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
May 18, 2002 5:42:03 AM

ya i agree i haven't touched my floppy drive in 2 to 3 years it seems like. ... i used it once to copy files onto my bro's disk. DOn't even need to boot up dos so you can format your hard drive just pop in the windows 2000/xp disk.

Now i have a 256MB Flash card and that works better than a floppy to transfer files from my laptop to my computer or to my PDA and view or listen(yes it plays MP3's and plays them quite well i might add) or watch (it can play movie files too) the files. PDA's are sooo cool! I highly recommend.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
May 18, 2002 10:12:03 AM

I am glad SOMEONE got the sarcasm.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
May 18, 2002 1:54:33 PM

Well in a way that was a punishement to him for not being open to different system combinations, especially if he thinks an SDRAM P4 system will be fun to use, compared to an Athlon SDRAM system.

--
Luke, I am your father...but due to a bacon-slicing accident, your mother... :lol: 
Anonymous
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May 18, 2002 6:43:21 PM

I`m using my computer for 3D graphics, Cubase and Harddisk audio recording, as well as video edditing..

I bought the Matrox Marvel G450 eTV(on Windows XP), so i can use it for my own home video, captureing in S-VHS Quality etc...

But with my current system (PIII 866 MHZ, 256MB RAM), i do experience drop out, bad audio sync,when i`m capturing video in S-VHS/playback, from a video source( did try installing every codecs, did`nt help much!)

It seem`s that, my current system has diffcult to sustain a framrate of 25 frame/sec (PAL system)..
May 18, 2002 8:06:04 PM

Have you considered Dual CPU setups? Of course you could waste the entire money on Dual Xeons, but you could save so much more if you get an AthlonMP dual setup, and still get better or equal performance for much less. Some have saved about 500-1000$ by using the AMD route.

OTHERWISE, if you persist on Intel P4s, do NOT stay with SDRAM, you'll end up with a system with 1-5% better performance in those apps, beleive me, it's THAT much bad. Instead go for RDRAM, where the video bandwidth will be efficient. ALSO, consider overclocking it, most guarantee a 1.8GHZ NW can almost 96% of the time go to 2.4GHZ, with a high FSB. If you do that, you end up indeed with a system that is more than twice the performance, and has over 4.2GB/sec of bandwidth.

It's up to you...
Dual CPUs: AMD AthlonMP
Single CPU: 1.8GHZ NW+PC800 RDRAM OCed to 2.4GHZ and PC1066 RDRAM.

Otherwise the performance isn't guaranteed to be even twice. See the P3 1GHZ vs P4 2GHZ bench on Intel's website, it improves by 80% and NOT 100% or twice. Of course that was a Willy, but even then, I doubt it went to 100%.

--
Luke, I am your father...but due to a bacon-slicing accident, your mother... :lol: 
May 18, 2002 8:14:49 PM

"you'll end up with a system with 1-5% better performance in those apps "
Wheres the bench?
"where the video bandwidth will be efficient"
RDRAM increases Video bandwidth?
"most guarantee a 1.8GHZ NW can almost 96% of the time go to 2.4GHZ"
Most guarantee? Almost 96% of 1.8A's go to 2.4? Whered you get that figure? Where do you get any of these percentages? You poll people that own 1.8A's? Most of em guarantee?

I sold my sig for $50.
May 18, 2002 8:38:49 PM

First of all, for video editing, I think everyone can agree, having 1.06GB/sec of bandwidth is utter useless BS. This is why I said there will be barely any increase in the overall. The guy wants over twice the performance, or something that can do his work faster.
Yes PC800 RDRAM's Dual Channel bandwidth, 3.2GB/sec, is very very good for anything for the P4, including 3d, video and audio. Why you don't see it, I wonder...
A 1.6A is guaranteed 98% to reach 2.13GHZ, and almost always goes to 2.4GHZ, with a little BIOS tweaking just in case. Ask FatBurger, or any 1.6A user who OCed his NW. This means a 1.8A would go somewhere above 2.2GHZ ~98% guaranteed once again, ask Crashman who had been planning to get that proc.

I am sorry but you are refusing to beleive facts that just about everyone here would agree, including trolls.

--
Luke, I am your father...but due to a bacon-slicing accident, your mother... :lol: 
May 18, 2002 9:03:50 PM

You're mistaken about what "video bandwidth" is. Thats the frequency at which video signals are carried across a certain medium...such as coax cable, or optics. 22 MHZ and up is considered high quality, like HDTV......So no, I dont see how RDRAM can improve that. I agree that the 1.6A is overclockable, so is the 1.8A.....sht, all procs can be overclocked. But to bring percentages without a documented study or anything is just ridiculous. 98% out of how many processors can be OC'd above 2ghz? Out of ALL OF THEM?!? LOL You went and tested every proc? I'd say 0 of em can be OC'd, but only because I have one, it overclocked, and thats all I have to go on. So now I can say that 0 of 1.8A procs OC to 2.5ghz cause mine does. You state your opinions as facts.......show me where a study/review has been done on P4 Procs comparing their overclocking potentials w/ the ability to not OC at all.

I sold my sig for $50.
May 18, 2002 9:13:00 PM

Um, what are you talking about? You need bandwidth because video has to be decompressed in memory and that takes a lot of memory and memory bandwidth. If you don't have enough bandwidth to manage video smoothly then you'll skip freeze. Out of all of them, how many Northwoods should reach 2GHZ+? I'd say 100%. Why? With most P4 motherboard offering at least 1.65V, 2.xGHz is virtually guaranteed. Show me a P4 that won't reach 2GHz!!! I doubt you'll find any!

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
May 18, 2002 9:16:19 PM

I'd agree w/ that before I'd agree w/ 98%.......wheres he get that # from?
Memory bandwidth and video bandwidth are two different things!!!!

I sold my sig for $50.
May 18, 2002 9:24:26 PM

Ok sorry if I said video bandwidth that way. I meant bandwidth for video editing is excellent on P4s.
And as for proof for OCing, you can ask many people here, they'll vouch for my claim.


--
Luke, I am your father...but due to a bacon-slicing accident, your mother... :lol: 
May 18, 2002 10:03:20 PM

I'd say it's 100%, not 98%. It's basically impossible to find one that doesn't reach at least 2GHz.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
May 18, 2002 10:06:49 PM

See LED, although I won't rub it in your face, but even AMD_Man dares to say 100%. I also have yet to see one single non-handpicked NW not do over 2GHZ, which is why I dared to tell the topic maker here, to OC it, as it is almost guaranteed anytime to reach 2.2GHZ+, and that IMO is worth every penny, since you get over twice the performance, and over 4 times the bandwidth than PC133 SDRAM, as well as the latency lowers as RDRAM clock goes up!

--
Luke, I am your father...but due to a bacon-slicing accident, your mother... :lol: 
May 18, 2002 10:14:02 PM

Yup, NCIX guarantees their 1.6A to 2.13GHz.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
May 18, 2002 10:26:08 PM

Listen, I dont know if you understand my point or not, but I will try to make it as clear as possible. Just because everyone knows that a 1.6A Overclocks really, really good, doesnt mean you can state Percentages like you did a study of some sort. When you see stats like, (for example, not to be taken literally) "An Nvidia card is in 65% of computers" I would assume some sort of research went into coming up with that figure. When all you're backing it up with is "ask my friend". How do you know its not 100%? I'd say it was. But then again, I can't, because I havent tested hundreds of P4 1.6A processors to prove that claim....Do you understand now? I never argued that the P4 couldnt overclock, the argument was with that percentage claim.

I sold my sig for $50.
May 18, 2002 10:55:41 PM

It's an educated guess, ok?

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
May 18, 2002 11:47:04 PM

Yeah, a lot of us use % sometimes, not to be statistically informed to the max, but to clarify and prove that chances are on your side.

--
Luke, I am your father...but due to a bacon-slicing accident, your mother... :lol: 
May 19, 2002 3:27:03 AM

If he doesn't, then it is why I was suggesting a money saving alternative, using OC. Otherwise IMO a dual MP system would work well.

--
Luke, I am your father...but due to a bacon-slicing accident, your mother... :lol: 
May 19, 2002 3:53:30 AM

he wants intel though ... and he doesn't sound like the overclocking person. Some people just refuse to overclock.

It would be a waste of money if he got anything else for what he does with his computer.

He should get either the fastest or at least the second fastest system on the current market.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
May 19, 2002 1:26:47 PM

And that is why limiting yourself is nothing but gonna bring you less good opportunities to make your dream work. I suspect if he uses the SDRAM on a 1.8GHZ NW, he'd lose everything for nothing.

--
Luke, I am your father...but due to a bacon-slicing accident, your mother... :lol: 
May 20, 2002 4:38:15 PM

Quote:
I am glad SOMEONE got the sarcasm.


Hey, if there's sarcasm around, you can bet I'm close by :wink:

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
May 20, 2002 5:35:14 PM

I agree with AMD_MAN, I doubt you will find a P4 that will not overclock beyond 2.1Ghz with stock HSF and adjusted voltages.

Northwood B's are good for 3Ghz +

I got your PR3400+@PC1400 speeds <A HREF="http://fugger.netfirms.com/3122.jpg" target="_new">right here.</A>

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
May 20, 2002 6:04:13 PM

ouch...too fast for me (at least for now)...is that watercooling or air cooled?

<b><font color=red>ATI</font color=red>'s drivers are like a broken faucet, they both keep on leaking...</b> :cool:
May 20, 2002 6:38:36 PM

Fugger grabbed the AC unit out of an old Cray box a while back. It basically chills the whole inside of the case down to about 20F, if I remember right. Don't know if he's using it there though.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
May 20, 2002 6:57:12 PM

so technically...thats air cooled?

<b><font color=red>ATI</font color=red>'s drivers are like a broken faucet, they both keep on leaking...</b> :cool:
May 20, 2002 6:57:37 PM

well if you want figures, i have a few

Athlon 1900+
512 megs of PC2100 ram
GeForce 3 Ti200

I had trouble figuring out my problem, when i ran 3dMark2001, i would get a score of 5500's. I tried overclocking my processor to a 2000+'s speed, and overclocking my geforce 3 card (with heavy heat sinks btw) to a TI 500's specs. This increased my score to 6300. This is still very low for the average Geforce 3 average on madonions web site. Then i noticed that in my bios the ram was put down as CAS 2.5. I changed it to 2.0 CAS timing and brought my speeds back to normal. Boom, i got a 7300 score on madonion's 3dmark2001. I overclocked the system back up and got just under 8000. So the ram makes a HUGE difference in graphic processing. I'm sure it also makes a difference in sound also =)

There's your numbers
May 20, 2002 9:02:04 PM

I use a combination of air cooling and water cooling.

Maze 3-1 without the pelt (dangerden.com for $55) and CPUFX GF4 Silver-plated copper waterblock.

<A HREF="http://fugger.netfirms.com/woody.JPG" target="_new">5cu FT -17 at idle Freezer</A> $159 from best buy

<A HREF="http://fugger.netfirms.com/installing.JPG" target="_new">Inside the case</A>, notice the GF waterblock condensation ($45 ochideout.com) free hanging (gotta love the desert) I now have a second set of 1/2" running my video card water block. as well as insulated hard lines.

750GP/h Little giant with all 1/2" hose and fittings.

<A HREF="http://fugger.netfirms.com/desktop.JPG" target="_new">The rest of my uber deesktop</A>

The machine on far side is a P4T-E with a 2.0Ghz Northwood.

The gizmo on my Z-560 controller is a Royal wireless thermometer. One of the remotes (pictured) is in the freezer.

The desktop is a gaming felt from the hard rock casino I found at good will for a few bucks. there is a 1/4" foam padding under it. super sweet feel and will last a very long time.

The one that covers the windows is a gai pow poker felt from unknown casino. I think it is also hard rock but I am not positive.

I just started watercooling, this is my first watercooling project.

I can hit 7c with AC, 262CFM air moving in the case. 2x 120mm YS tech 131CFM fans.

Monitor slightly out of view is a hand picked SGI 17FS, its getting old but still has perfect picture and hits decent refresh rates. This is the monitor in most of my sandra benchmarks I have posted.

<A HREF="http://fugger.netfirms.com/front.jpg" target="_new">Here is </A>the new gainward GF4 with obvious changes, the new HSF is now chrome base high polished, the contact points and trade are gold now, the color coordinated DVI adapters, and this card clocks like a mean SOB. 350/800 stock before waterblock.

The card pictured is a Visiontek GF4 Ti4600 (inside case) Best buy $179 special. This card was put in harms way in case I sprung a leak during setup/testing.

Here is my old gainward I <A HREF="http://fugger.netfirms.com/gainward.JPG" target="_new">killed with volt mod.</A> A bad picture, but it shows my custom copper heat sinks with silver core.

Lastly here is what happens when your drop your Gainward with oversized copper heat sinks on it. A coworker wanted to be like me and beef up his card. After days of gathering parts, hours of prep work, minutes of installing, seconds after the glue dried he <A HREF="http://fugger.netfirms.com/bpga1.jpg" target="_new">dropped it.</A>

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
May 20, 2002 10:01:44 PM

nice job fugger...but isnt your visiontek gf4 from bestbuy the one with the "typo" on the advertisment?

<b><font color=red>ATI</font color=red>'s drivers are like a broken faucet, they both keep on leaking...</b> :cool:
May 20, 2002 10:24:38 PM

T-T your old comp is even faster than my "newest" comp (P3 800). Water cool is acturally quite easy because my classmate with no hardware expenience install water cool system on his newly made comp
May 20, 2002 10:43:49 PM

Correct, that was a typo.

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
!