Computex has begun!

[SammyBoy]

What will the Hammer demo look like? Graphics cards being shown off? Who knows. Anandtech and OCworkbench have already begun. Anandtech will be sending out newsletters to <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.html?i=3417&t=sn" target="_new">subscribers</A>, and OCworkbench[/url] is posting pics in its <A HREF="http://forum.ocworkbench.com/ocwbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=36" target="_new">forum</A>. It sounds like things should be good Q3 and Q4. Pics are already up for some motherboards in the OCworkbench, including Hammer boards on both the VIA and AMD chipsets.

-SammyBoy

 

[flamethrower205]

Uhoh, something went up

My frog asked me for a straw...dunno what happened he's all over the place

 

[eden]

Can't wait, but I hope it is more than CeBIT, I had expected more there from AMD...

--
Meow

 

[SammyBoy]

Hmm... the initial Anandtech article, <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1630" target="_new">here</A>, isn't too promising, in terms of details released. The Opteron demo, apparently, has no hard numbers, just proof that it can run 4-way under 64-bit SUSE Linux as a web server to Hammer desktops... nothing else. Looking at the screenshot, it looks like, at the time, only 2.4% of one Opteron was being used, while the rest were idle. Not exactly a trying demo. AMD's press release stated that the Opteron will be released 1H'03, which if anything like the present, may mean another June launch. Quite sad, really. There is no mention of the desktop version Athlon, though. All bets are off on whether the Hammer will make it to the desktop this fall. I'd say if it's going to happen, they will be shipping to OEMs by mid to late Aug. and officially launched in Oct., much like the AXP. That way, desktops will be ready for OEMs to sell at Christmas. Otherwise, AMD is hosed for a quick sell, since it won't be until spring when the OEMs do a product refresh.

All in all, though this is premature and maybe AMD will surprise us all with actual figures later on in the show, I think this is completely disapointing, and AMD really shot itself in the foot. They could have rocked Intel and made OEMs salivate if they had more concrete data (they might to select partners, but unless the public knows, why the hell should they care), but instead they made sure to keep a tight lid on it all. I just wanted to know an approximate speed (even a PR rating) of the 4-way Opteron being demoed. Or even a system bus speed. Notice that of all the 'boards demoed for the Hammer, not a one have what the bus speed is, just the supported DDR types. How can you hype a product when the only specs known are x86-64 and hypertransport? AMD should really by making the most of Computex as an ad, and not a place to get a few more people binded by NDAs.


Edit: This is taken from AMD's FAQ on the Opteron, in regard to the system bus speed. Take it however you will:

Q: What is the front-side bus frequency of the AMD Opteron processor?

A: In traditional microprocessor architecture, the front-side bus is the communication path connecting the Northbridge chip to the CPU. As the AMD Opteron processor embeds functions of the Northbridge into the CPU itself, including the memory controller, there is no longer a front-side bus as people have come to understand it. As the built-in memory controller operates at processor frequency, the clock frequency of the AMD Opteron processor can be considered the frequency of its front-side bus.

I personally see that as a side-step to the question, as it is my understanding that the ultimate speed (in MHz) of the CPU is the FSB times the multiplier. So, if there is no FSB as we know it, how the heck do you overclock the dang thing? You can't increase the multiplier, as in this case, it would be the speed of the CPU time 1. Something is not being said here, and I have a feeling that we won't know that that is until the release of the Hammer. *sigh*

-SammyBoy

 

[mbetea]

i would figure the hammer would have a fsb of PR333 or PR400?

[insert philosophical statement here]

 

[SammyBoy]

The only thing I can think of is that the FSB would be determined by the memory used. Therefore, PC1600 would have a 100/200MHz FSB, PC2100 a 133/266MHz FSB, and PC2700 a 166/333MHz FSB. This would mean that each CPU would have three multipliers... and from there, it gets really weird. Any other thoughts, guys?

-SammyBoy

 

[cakecake]

Computex... yawn. I've been to computer shows in Taiwan before. They're sometimes neat but most of the time I just end up buying lunch and sitting down watching everyone bustle by. People always say you can buy things there cheaper than from resellers but prices don't seem that good to me.

 

[eden]

I think AMD's goal is to lower the hype, as they know people will overexpect things, and in the end get disappointed. If this is so, they still have a clear mind of us enthusiasts.

As for the bus, texas_techie also said something like that. I would say there is no bus, and thus it explains why the heat spreader added. Maybe now the OCing goes by simple clock speed OCing? I mean now you can up your clock by 5MHZ increments or so, and not by multis and FSB. I dunno how the limits on different cooling will be though. It's certainly a new architecture function, and we will learn to use it, by time.

--
Meow

 

[FatBurger]

<i>SammyBoy says:</i>
They could have rocked Intel and made OEMs salivate if they had more concrete data

Perhaps. I think Hammer just isn't up to release specs yet, and they don't want to release any numbers until then.

<i>SammyBoy says:</i>
as it is my understanding that the ultimate speed (in MHz) of the CPU is the FSB times the multiplier

True. However, all you young upstarts don't remember the times before there was a multiplier. The CPU used to always run at the same speed as the FSB. Looks like we're getting back to those days, which could be good or bad. Of course you could be right, and there is a multiplier for the processing portion of the CPU, and then the traditional FSB would still exist, it just would never touch the motherboard.

BTW, I'm only 20, so "young upstarts" was just a joke.

<i>Eden says:</i>
I think AMD's goal is to lower the hype, as they know people will overexpect things, and in the end get disappointed.

That's what I've been warning against for a while now, I hope AMD is finally taking my advice :tongue:

<i>Eden says:</i>
I would say there is no bus, and thus it explains why the heat spreader added.

Sorry, I'm missing the relationship between the two. Can you explain?

<i>Eden says:</i>
Maybe now the OCing goes by simple clock speed OCing?

Most likely. That wouldn't really be too different though, would it? Intel users can only overclock by the FSB, which isn't that different. In theory it's different of course, but in practice they're similar.

<i>Eden says:</i>
I dunno how the limits on different cooling will be though.

Not so different, I wouldn't think. More efficient, for sure. <A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com" target="_new">HardOCP</A> just put up an article about cooling for the Hammer. I got bored and didn't finish it (and it's only one page). Let me know if you read it and there's something interesting in the second half.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by FatBurger on 06/03/02 03:03 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[slvr_phoenix]

I wonder if the Hammers will even <i>have</i> a FSB in any form...

I mean if the CPU connects directly to the RAM, and HyperTransport connects up the CPU, the Northbridge, and AGP, then maybe everything will connect to the CPU asynchronously and the CPU will just send out commands and recieve responses as fast as the independant busses.

So now instead of one bus between the CPU and the Northbridge which everything hops onto, we will see several busses with no real synchronization between each other. And the CPU will no longer have a FSB x mult to determine speed, but just speed, plain and simple.

It would be cool for overclockers because then the individual busses will be at their own speeds, not synched to the FSB. The memory will run at the speed of the memory no matter what the CPU is running at. The AGP will run at standard AGP clock no matter what the CPU is running at. Same for PCI, and for anything else that might one day come into play. So if you OC, everything (except the CPU) always runs in spec.

It would be a neat method of doing it anyway. Hell, I've been saying that mobo and/or chipset manus should be setting up that way for years. (Of course, with the option to OC individual busses as well. )

The only problem is that tiny little detail of how the heck you overclock a chip when it has no FSB and multiplier anymore... Would AMD just allow you crank up it's speed to any old random number? Or is the speed permanently locked?

**really big shrug** Keep in mind, it's all hypothetical. I'd love to see AMD actually answer some of these hard questions, instead of just cop out by claiming there no longer is a FSB. Maybe there isn't, but it still hardly answers the question of what speeds it connects to other components and if the CPU is overclockable, and if so, how.

But then, I'm a conspiracy theorist. I hope I'm completely wrong (because I really am considering an Opteron in the future) but I'd expect that the CPU is completely locked at whatever speed AMD sells it at with no OC of any kind. AMD just doesn't seem to be doing its best at keeping OCers happy lately. Again, I say that I hope my AMD conspiracy theory there is completely wrong. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it really happened that way though.


Tech support said take a screen shot.
Putting it down with my .22 was the humane thing to do.

 

[SammyBoy]

Young upstarts? Bah, I've had computers since the Apple IIe... I just never learned much about them till the last 18 months. Heck, compared to the many people I see on here, I'm rather old, at the ripe ol' age of 20. It'll be interesting if anyone can get their hands on a sample of the Hammer and figure out the overclocking mechanics of it.

-SammyBoy

 

[mbetea]

hope I'm completely wrong (because I really am considering an Opteron in the future) but I'd expect that the CPU is completely locked at whatever speed AMD sells it at with no OC of any kind. AMD just doesn't seem to be doing its best at keeping OCers happy lately.

what's wrong with that? i know some feel the need to have to oc a cpu, but do you think amd gives a [-peep-] if joe nerd can't bump his cpu up 100mhz or something? i highly doubt it. man, the only piece of silicon i'll get worked up over is my busty betty blow-up doll. it's funny that with the exception of 1 or maybe 2 people here, noone has or had any kind of business or personal relationship with amd, but you would think from so many "i'm going to be disappointed if...", "man amd sucks for taking so long...". just out of curiosity, how many people here stalk william shatner?

[insert philosophical statement here]

 

[slvr_phoenix]

what's wrong with that?

There is nothing wrong with it <i>IF</i> the price is low enough. I doubt that it will be though, not with T-Bred and/or Barton on the value end of things. It would look really bad for AMD if I could pick up a Barton and OC it to outperform a ClawHammer for half of the price of the CH and be completely unable to OC the CH to justify its existence.

just out of curiosity, how many people here stalk william shatner?

Oooh! I did for a while, until I was thrown in prison for seven years without parole. (Luckily I get to hop on-line here in the prison library.) He's so dreamy though. Most people love him for his role in Star Trek, but it was Tek War that really rocked.


Tech support said take a screen shot.
Putting it down with my .22 was the humane thing to do.

 

[SammyBoy]

Well, a few months back AMD dropped the hint that it wouldn't be leaving the enthusiust market behind, as it is because of those people AMD has the market share it has today. But, since there will still be the Barton, and whatever else later in the "budget" line for AMD, it's quite possible that they'll keep the Hammer locked down tight, but quietly let the Barton leave the fab unlocked and ready for fun, kinda like what happened with the 1.2-1.4GHz T-Birds.

-SammyBoy

 

[eden]

You know what Fat? I have no idea now that I re-read my post, why I said that...
I'll try to remember why!

--
Meow

 

[FatBurger]

slvr_phoenix says:</i>
I wonder if the Hammers will even have a FSB in any form...

It sure doesn't look like it. It's amazing, every time I read something about the integrated Northbridge, I learn somthing new. Very interesting, I'm sure we won't even realize all the things it will affect until after release (at the eariliest).

This gets back to clockless processors, something Raystonn brought up a few months ago. Interesting times, for sure.

The Hammer just got a bit more revolutionary, now that I look at it from that perspective.

<i>SammyBoy says:</i>
Young upstarts?

Sorry, forgot the last sentence. Should read correctly now.

<i>Eden says:</i>
You know what Fat? I have no idea now that I re-read my post, why I said that...

That's ok, it just means you're getting old. :tongue:

I do that all the time...I mean... :redface:

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>

 

[cakecake]

It's going to be interesting to watch what China's markets do. They are a completely new market, and like Omid's article said they haven't been assimilated by Windows and Intel like the US market has. In the US and partly in Europe, there is a history of always using these two products, and that really ruins a lot of business here as people buy without thinking. Wouldn't it be surprising if Linux took over the Chinese market?

 

[eden]

Good to hear you are finding some nice things about Hammer now.
IMO each new architectural product has something special in it. P4's L1 Trace Cache is something to me that is quite the impressive item, although most of the P4 architecture is pretty nice, just that these things just don't show their prowess with the current IPC given. I am sure you can understand what I am saying!

--
Meow

 

[mbetea]

sorry, that post wasn't directed at you entirely, just in general
i agree though. but i would think with the CH, at least so far, being dubbed their "desktop" cpu. it would be priced fair. as for the SH, i'm just hoping theres some kind of reasonable pricetag on those, maybe at least around what a xeon goes for. if it performs like it's expected with HT, 1mb cache, etc. i wouldn't mind picking up a couple at all. personally i don't and probably won't ever oc. i buy the speed i want/need and be done with it. but i guess i can see where some of you guys are coming from.

[insert philosophical statement here]

 

[AshuraHog]

yes, this takes us certainly at least 5 minutes.


Trolling is forbidden. Insults are banned.

 

[AshuraHog]

can you indicate when you take the lead of AMD?


Trolling is forbidden. Insults are banned.

 

[AshuraHog]

apart your replies inserts, what are your technical point of view?


Trolling is forbidden. Insults are banned.

 

[FatBurger]

<i>Eden says:</i>
Good to hear you are finding some nice things about Hammer now.

Since release, there have been some things I like and some things I'm apprehensive about. Pretty much all the good things have been talked about for the most part, which leaves me nothing new to add. And contrary to popular opinion, I'm not here just to inflate my post count :tongue:

<i>AshuraHog says:</i>
can you indicate when you take the lead of AMD?

I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure what you're asking.

<i>AshuraHog says:</i>
apart your replies inserts, what are your technical point of view?

I'm not quite sure what the question is here, either.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>

 

[labdog]

you neednt few batteries but a nuke central, i think. :lol:

<i>if <b>you know</b> <font color=white>you don't know<font color=black>, the way could be more easy ...

 

[FatBurger]

Huh huh. Shut up, Beavis.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>