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K8? TBred? Hammer? etc...

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June 3, 2002 4:10:04 PM

The naming scheme of AMD is starting to get a lil overpopulated with terms. In mentioning the K8 I assume that the main physical difference will be the actual (micron) size of the dye. However, will the TBred be a K8? Or is the claw hammer a K8? etc... which chip actually moves from the Athlon K7 to the K8?



Madison Major
ECE University of Illinois
mtmajor@uiuc.edu

More about : tbred hammer

June 3, 2002 4:37:57 PM

Hammer = K8

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
June 3, 2002 5:01:46 PM

To sum up:

k7 = current XP and also Tbred.
k8 = hammer . This is a NEW core.

The change in "k" means a new core, absolutely different, build from scratch; also if you know the term stepping, it is used when minor modifications has been added to a core to make it more efficient.

The core doesn't have any relation with the build process. As an exemple, XP and Tbred has the same core (as far as I now even no minor modifications done it), but the last one is build on 0.13 process so it can reach higher frecuencies. That's all.

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June 3, 2002 5:50:02 PM

It's not really built from scratch, it's just the next major revision. Until now (with the K7), the way the CPU operates has been basically the same. This is completely changing that, but it's still mostly adding, not completely redoing from scratch. Small difference, but I figured I'd point it out.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
June 4, 2002 1:21:28 AM

I wonder just how much of a change there has to be before they declare it a new version and not just a revision? If you remember there was a change from the Athlon to the XP. Mostly they improved the data prefetch. I think less than 5% of the actual silicone was changed, but still there was a change.

How much of a change was made to move from the K6 to the K7? I didn't follow AMD back in those days, so I have no idea.

The Hammer is a major change I agree, but at it's root is is basically just 2 Athlon's linked together on 1 chip (a gross oversimplification, I know). Admittedly they had to make alot of changed to make this happen (notably in the memory interface/hypertransport).

When the Barton comes out it will still be considered a k7. Think of the changed that have happened since the origional k7 (Athlon) was released. They've changed alot since then. Why are they considered a stepping and not a re-design?

--------------
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June 4, 2002 1:33:22 AM

The K7 has very little, if anything in common with the K6.

While the K8 uses some of the core architectural features of the K7 it is an all new chip. The core design alone was used as a basis for the K8, but virtually all of the core design has been redone.

Virtually all of the remainder of the chip is all new; the memory controller, the new tlb, etc. So, while it bult upon some of the K7 core design it is an all new design; there is more new in the K8 when compared to the K7 than in the P3 when compared with the P2, for instance.

Mark-

<font color=blue>When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!</font color=blue>
June 4, 2002 2:38:52 AM

about the P2 P3 difference, what was the difference between the Deutches PII and the Katamai P3......very little i think, in fact the Katamai was originally going to be a PII but intel changed their mind....i think
June 4, 2002 3:26:09 AM

Quote:
I wonder just how much of a change there has to be before they declare it a new version and not just a revision? If you remember there was a change from the Athlon to the XP. Mostly they improved the data prefetch. I think less than 5% of the actual silicone was changed, but still there was a change.


The tbird to axp was a major core change, and they didnt improve hardware prefetch, they ADDED it.

Many things in the tbird core were moved around to make the axp, much more than 5%.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
June 4, 2002 12:21:57 PM

Indeed Mat.

The Palomino core is more akin to the P2 - P3 changes. o, Palomino could be considered an Athlon 2 or even Athlon 3 since TBird also saw some significant improvements over the original Athlon core.

Mark-

<font color=blue>When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!</font color=blue>
June 4, 2002 12:27:38 PM

I personally would say the athlon classic>tbird change was more signifigant myself, but its very close, and they both were very serious.



:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
June 4, 2002 12:48:45 PM

Quote:
Many things in the tbird core were moved around to make the axp, much more than 5%.

Saying that it was much more than a 5% change is a very debatable stance though. For the most part, all they did was move components around and shortened paths. The components themselves hardly changed at all. This of course dramatically helped it ramp up to higher clocks speeds because it now ran more efficiently (electrical <i>and</i> thermal) which was great.

However, the actual execution of code at the machine level hardly changed at all. The only real difference in performance that has been measured (from the articles that I've read anyway) is due completely to the prefetch.

So physically it <i>was</i> much more than a 5% change. Even in terms of performance, it was far more than a 5% boost. However, technologically (in terms of changes to the core's components themselves) it really was just a 5% change.

Just goes to show that intelligent engineering can always squeeze more juice out of the same old product. Not everything has to be all-new to be improved.


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Putting it down with my .22 was the humane thing to do.
June 4, 2002 2:46:58 PM

Quote:
Saying that it was much more than a 5% change is a very debatable stance though. For the most part, all they did was move components around and shortened paths. The components themselves hardly changed at all. This of course dramatically helped it ramp up to higher clocks speeds because it now ran more efficiently (electrical and thermal) which was great.


Moving things around IS changing them, there is no distinction. Costs the same, requires the same design and testing, its no different totally rearrange your core than adding things to it and even designing a new core(r&d costs excluded obviously).


Quote:
However, the actual execution of code at the machine level hardly changed at all. The only real difference in performance that has been measured (from the articles that I've read anyway) is due completely to the prefetch.


The better tlb's helped quite a bit as well, as well as sse.



Quote:
So physically it was much more than a 5% change. Even in terms of performance, it was far more than a 5% boost. However, technologically (in terms of changes to the core's components themselves) it really was just a 5% change.


He didnt specify technology wise, he specified "change" a rearrangement qualifies as change in my book.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
June 4, 2002 4:25:55 PM

Geez, I had several nice little replies written out, then I get to the end of the thread and see that everyone beat me to them. Oh well.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
June 5, 2002 1:32:22 AM

thxm

<i>if <b>you know</b> <font color=white>you don't know<font color=black>, the way could be more easy ...
June 5, 2002 1:37:37 AM

yeah fine comment. really accurate.
a (new) cpu is created from a (old) cpu. (obviously a previous version one)


haha.


<i>if <b>you know</b> <font color=white>you don't know<font color=black>, the way could be more easy ...
June 5, 2002 1:46:32 AM

yeah. another accurate comment. rofl.


someone could buy some fuses for fb. thx.


<i><A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&..." target="_new">check the link</A></i>

<i>if <b>you know</b> <font color=white>you don't know<font color=black>, the way could be more easy ...
June 5, 2002 2:08:40 AM

& the garbler is i. roflMAO.


<i>if <b>you know</b> <font color=white>you don't know<font color=black>, the way could be more easy ...
June 5, 2002 2:11:37 AM

give me a link, pls.


<i>if <b>you know</b> <font color=white>you don't know<font color=black>, the way could be more easy ...
June 5, 2002 2:13:50 AM

here is the beef. hoping you are not a mod...


<i>if <b>you know</b> <font color=white>you don't know<font color=black>, the way could be more easy ...
June 5, 2002 6:52:41 PM

You should be glad there aren't any mods around, your spamming ass would be long gone, my friend.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
June 5, 2002 7:21:19 PM

Actually Palomino = Athlon 4

because:

K7 Athlon (0.25u) = Athlon 1
K7 Athlon (0.18u) = Athlon 2
K7 Athlon T-Bird = Athlon 3
K7 Athlon Palo/Xp = Athlon 4

"The answer to life's problems aren't at the bottom of a beer bottle, they're on TV."
June 5, 2002 7:27:30 PM

but i know a bit the mod (well, because there is only one) & i recognize it 1/2 times. haha.



<i>if <b>you know</b> <font color=white>you don't know<font color=black>, the way could be more easy ...
June 5, 2002 11:47:26 PM

If anyone here can actually understand what Labdog is trying to say, can you please take one step forward?

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
June 5, 2002 11:55:00 PM

do you know my new updated sig?


now im a tank, armoured against bs@dum.
<i>if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy
June 6, 2002 6:44:38 PM

Yes, and it doesn't help anybody understand you, sorry to say.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
June 6, 2002 7:03:50 PM

maybe but that helps me. sorry to say...


now im a tank, armoured against bs@dum.
<i>if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy
June 6, 2002 8:19:26 PM

i can't understand him at all either
!