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Upgrade Options....Thoroughbred??

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June 4, 2002 3:51:55 AM

alright, so my parents have hired me to build them a new computer and they're allowing me to take the parts i have in mine and give it to them so i can order newer parts for myself. Basically i'm giving them my mobo, processor, RAM, video card, and sound card and buying new ones for myself and the rest of the parts they need to make their computer actually work........like a case maybe, haha.

I'm definitely going for a VIA KT333 chipset and i think i've narrowed it down to two motherboards, unless someone can show me reason to get a diferent one. The two are the latest offerings from Gigabyte and Epoch. Now i've been hearing some sketchy things about the Gigabyte board and compatability problems with the GF4, but then again Tom seems to have reccomended that one. The Epoch board has also gotten very good reviews and seems to be another favorite. Which one do you think i should go for?

The second thing i'm waiting on is the thoroughbred which is supposed to arrive june 10th. But my question is, is it really worth getting the 2200 over the 2100 in terms of speed. The reason i'm looking at the thoroughbred is the new .13 micron technology, but will that actually make a difference. If the price difference is small i'll obviously go for the thoroughbred, but if the price difference is more than $100 i'm not sure if it's worth it. Any opinions?

Now as for the RAM i'm almost positive i'm going for corsair because of good reviews they have gotten for beating all other ram in speed. I was debating the 512 pc 3000 cas 2 or the pc 3200 cas 2.5 ram, i'm not sure which will be faster though.

As for the video card and sound card i have already purchased a Game theatre XP 6.1 and it's absolutely amazing and would recommend it to anyone, especially if you own the klipsch 5.1s. The video card i'm planning to buy is either the asus, visiontek, or leadtek GF4.

I'd really appreciate any input you guys can give me, thanks.
June 4, 2002 4:04:35 AM

Quote:
The second thing i'm waiting on is the thoroughbred which is supposed to arrive june 10th. But my question is, is it really worth getting the 2200 over the 2100 in terms of speed. The reason i'm looking at the thoroughbred is the new .13 micron technology, but will that actually make a difference. If the price difference is small i'll obviously go for the thoroughbred, but if the price difference is more than $100 i'm not sure if it's worth it. Any opinions?


The 2200+ should not be too much more expensive than the 2100+, and it will have binned better, I say go for it, then run the whole bastard at 166fsb, with a good hsf it should be no problem at all.(like 2.1-2.3ghz ish)



:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
June 4, 2002 3:00:07 PM

I mostly agree with Matisaro.

The best of the XP 2200+ is that because it's build on 0.13 process, you can overclock it more easily than XP 2100+ (at least, it should be).

However, I think the first months it will be quite more expensive than XP 2100+, but with $100 margin you are almost in the range. But from my point of view, the difference doesn't make sense for the 66Mhz real difference, it's worth IF you plan to overclock it.


DIY: read, buy, test, learn, reward yourself!
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June 4, 2002 3:36:11 PM

well i definitely plan to overclock it, i just hope my swiftech mcx462 will fit on the motherboard i get. I think i'm more unsure of which motherboard to get rather than the processor cause there's really no motherboard that stands out, each of them have their strengths and their weaknesses. Which do you think is best for overclocking the 2200?
June 5, 2002 12:51:15 AM

Personally I would recommend a Abit board like the kx7-333. For ram I might just go with the corsair pc2700 c2 ram, chances are you wont see to much of a difference unless you oc beyond a 166fsb. What kind of hardrives where you thinking of?

If an orange was driving a racecar would it peel out? www.jxfiles.com
June 5, 2002 1:04:30 AM

well i already have two IBM 60 gig 60 gxp hds in RAID 0 with a promise fast trak tx2. The only thing i'm changing in my computer is the video card, sound card, mobo, ram , and processor....hmmmm, maybe i should say only, but i am keeping those two hard drives, my network card, burner, DVD rom, case, psu etc. Now you're recomending the abit board, i haven't heard much about them, why would you recommend it over epox or gigabyte? And as for the ram, i was thinking either crucial pc 2700 or corsair 3200 i haven't heard much about the 3200 performance wise, what do you think?
June 6, 2002 6:36:39 AM

I doubt Kaliman is packing LN2 or phase change vapochill.

You have NFC how they will overclock yet your already quoting bad numbers. Wait a few more weeks untill you know what your talking because your inflated BS doesnt cut it as good adivce.


You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
June 6, 2002 7:03:12 AM

Seems you know pretty much what you want, MCX462 is a good choice of high heat sinks.

The 3200 is the better ram, make sure the motherboard you get has the newest features USB2, ATA133, and can support DDR400/PC3200. XMS PC3200 pulls a premium.

Check out this board from <A HREF="http://http://www.abit.com.tw/abitweb/webjsp/english/pt_main_b..." target="_new">ABit AT7.</A> It officially supports DDR333 but you can run faster ram if you are overclocking.

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
June 6, 2002 1:24:35 PM

one thing that should be noted about that ram is that the pc-3200 is cas 2.5 while the pc 3000 is cas 2.0. So now my question is what is more important, memory speed, or latency? As for the Ram being compatabile in the motherboard i purchase, i have come to the conclusion that all the new KT333 motherboards are junk from the research that i have done, there is something wrong with each and every single one of them. Unfortunately, if i want performance and the option to overclock this VIA POS is the only way to go, and i'm not about to switch to intel and pay $600 for a processor. The mobo that seems to have the least problems is the epox 8k3a+ It doesn't have usb 2.0 but then again i don't really care, i can get a free card from epox's website if i order their board. I'm having some second thoughts about this tbred, it seems as though the prices are going to be astronomical, i saw $330 for the 2200. That's simply rediculous, i'm not paying $130 more for a smaller die size and 66 mhz difference. But i guess the best thing to do is wait and see. Oh and as for the vapochill, i went to their website to check it out seeing if the price would be somewhat reasonable.............$650 hahaha, god damn some people have too much money out there, but -20 C would sure be nice to have.
June 6, 2002 4:00:20 PM

You will be able to run the PC3200 at cas 2. compatability should not be a problem with the ram.

It would cost you a bit to switch to Intel but not as much as you think.

Just a few more days till Tbred, I cannot see AMD selling Tbred for much more than $220.

There is cheaper phase change unit than the Vapochill, its the EVA, its only $500 +shipping.

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
June 6, 2002 4:16:10 PM

you know what, i think i might just wait to change the parts in my pc. I'll just give my parents the new parts and keep my 1.4 ghz athlon and a7m266. There just isn't enough reasons to upgrade.....GF3 to GF4 not big enough difference, tbred, nothing special except smaller core. motherboards..they've only gotten worse. I think the thing i should really be waiting for is the clawhammer, but tell me if i'm mistaken. When do you think it's going to come out? The main reason i was going to give my parents my parts and use the new ones is because once i upgrade what in gods name am i going to do with the leftover parts. What do you guys do once you upgrade with your old parts, sell them?? just throw them on a shelve?
June 9, 2002 2:29:13 AM

Clawhammer is 9 months away plus time to mature being a new platform. If you are a consumer for household use and games do not consider the hammer for at least a year. Prices will be slightly higher for x86-64 processors and cost prohibitive for consumers at launch, no idea of prices yet but there will be a lot of mobo choices from computex reports. No idea on estimated delivery date for x86-64 OS from Microsoft. There is a good 3 years left on x86 platform for consumers.

Lots of video card releases soon

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
June 9, 2002 2:38:52 AM

Quote:

Lots of video card releases soon

Yup! The R300 seems to be hyped the most by Carmack. A lot of hype is also surrounding the NV30 and Parhelia.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
June 9, 2002 5:13:16 AM

I think the clawhammer will be out around 5 to eight Months. Unless there some thing they over look.
June 9, 2002 2:14:59 PM

i think the clawhammer should be released by christmas time which is a perfect time to upgrade because tons of new releases should be coming out. Does anyone know what speed they are going to start at, i remember seeing benchmarks on an 800 mhz test proc that benchmarked higher than a 1.6 ghz p4, very impressive.
June 9, 2002 10:29:40 PM

ok Mat, you know your AMD stuff, so here goes...

my soltek 75DRV2 (KT266A) only has one frewquency control, the FSB, so i'm guessing that controls the RAM speed as well.

will this guy run at FSB 166 if i put in a TBred and PC2700 DDR RAM?

i've got an excellant CPU cooler, and of course the Northbridge has a fan
June 9, 2002 10:50:18 PM

If its a kt266a chipset it should be able to do 166fsb, your problem will be the dividers for the pci and agp, at 166fsb you will be seriously overclocking them both unless the proper divider is available.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
June 9, 2002 11:39:36 PM

mm i've not actually seen a way of controlling the AGP/PCI frequencies....so perhaps this board isn't the best for OC-ing.....i'll do a post in the Mobo section and find out.
June 10, 2002 2:13:43 AM

I don't see why you don't consider a 1.6a or 1.8a Northwood 400mhz P4. They usually overclock way over 2ghz, also they have 512kb of L2 cache. At the computer show here in Orlando the 1.8a was going for $169 while the 1.6a was $139. Many people have the stock coolers with them pushing out over 2.4ghz. Right now I believe that is the best bang for your buck. Get a SIS 645 mobo, around $65 either from Asus or Abit and you have a hell of a system. I am very tempted but will wait until the AGP8x boards are out. I don't see much improvement in the XP line even if at .13 micron.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 06/09/02 10:14 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 10, 2002 5:04:57 AM

i know that the epox 83ka+ has a pci/agp divider that keeps the frequencies of those slots at 33 mhz and 66 mhz when increasing the fsb from 133 to 166+ so your pci/agp cards are kept completely safe
June 10, 2002 10:54:41 AM

It should hit 150fsb at least however, before pci issues start to creep up.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
June 10, 2002 10:59:59 AM

heh
a man after my own heart.

heres a suggestion for ya... my rig

xp or tbird + epox 8k3a+ (kt333 chipset) + swiftech mcx-462 + corsiar PC3200.

excellent on all counts.

just a shame my 60GXP is dying and my almost new monitor has big faults *sigh*
LOL

<font color=blue>Pants Down! Turn Around! Bend Over! You're about to Experience Telstra broadband! :lol: 
June 10, 2002 2:04:13 PM

haha, funny you should mention that configuration, i'm planning to get that motherboard as of now, and i bought that heatsink the day it came out and will be buying another, as for the RAM i've been told many times that the pc3000 corsair is better, but more surprisingly some people have told me that the crucial pc 2700 cas 2.5 outperforms the corsair ram. To tell you the truth though i'm thinking of leaving AMD and moving onto Intel. Amd has definitely dissapointed me with the release of the tbred and the lack of good motherboard support. It's a sad day for AMD.
June 10, 2002 2:52:01 PM

Quote:
tbred and the lack of good motherboard support. It's a sad day for AMD.


I can buy the tbred being dissapointing, but lack of good motherboard support?

The athlon has tons of good motherboards and support, kt266a sis735, 760mpx, how many different and good chipsets on good motherboards do you need to qualify as "enough" support?

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
June 10, 2002 3:15:33 PM

i'm talking in terms of the best performing ones, and in this case unfortunately that means the VIA KT333, and as far as i have seen every single KT333 mobo has some problem with it.
June 10, 2002 3:17:45 PM

Such as?

And remember the kt333 is only a kt266a with better dividers on the mobo, the abit kr7a-raid has the divider for 166fsb iirc, sounds like you arent doing enough research if you are dissapointed with amd motherboard support.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
June 10, 2002 3:28:33 PM

how about you find me 1 kt333 board without problems. Name any board you can think of and i will name a problem with it. Just browse through the forums, even the mobo that the "almighty" Tom recommended, the gigabyte, is a piece of sh1te.
June 10, 2002 5:41:05 PM

Quote:
<i>Kaliman says:</i>
i remember seeing benchmarks on an 800 mhz test proc that benchmarked higher than a 1.6 ghz p4, very impressive.


It was only one benchmark (Quake 3), but it would suggest around a 33% increase in IPC for Hammer. If that's the case, and it scales as well as well all expect it to (and as rumors suggest), then it should be a nice processor.

Quote:
<i>Kaliman says:</i>
how about you find me 1 kt333 board without problems.


As Mat said, it doesn't really need to be KT333. A KT266a or SiS 745 would work well too.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
June 10, 2002 11:33:15 PM

what do u mean by problem precisely?
my kt333 is fine.

if your talking about lack of this or that then things like onboard raid, lan or USB2.0 are optional extras.

and you really only need PC3200 ram if your gonna overclock the buggery out of it. not worth it for just running at stock speeds.

<font color=blue>Pants Down! Turn Around! Bend Over! You're about to Experience Telstra broadband! :lol: 
June 10, 2002 11:43:22 PM

sorry, but what that "klipsch" speakers brand?
June 10, 2002 11:47:09 PM

Klipsch makes really good computer speakers, but they're pricey.

Their large format audio stuff is crap, but that's another issue.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
June 11, 2002 12:57:17 AM

what do you mean by "large format audio"?
by the way, do you know their site?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by paulmartin on 06/10/02 08:58 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
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